Miller Syncrowave "Power Source" ???

[Realsquash]

I would like a TIG setup and a local auction shop has about two dozen Miller ac/dc "power sources". There are a few differeent models. One is a Syncrowave 250 constant current deal with a radiator cooling system. In the photo it shows a tig torch sitting right on it but it's listed as a power source. These things are $200-300 each. Should I grab one or two? What would it take to make a usable TIG setup from one if it has no torch setup?

Andy

[Static-XJ]

I would like a TIG setup and a local auction shop has about two dozen Miller ac/dc "power sources". There are a few differeent models. One is a Syncrowave 250 constant current deal with a radiator cooling system. In the photo it shows a tig torch sitting right on it but it's listed as a power source. These things are $200-300 each. Should I grab one or two? What would it take to make a usable TIG setup from one if it has no torch setup?

Andy

First check to see if it'll run on single phase power. Current syncrowaves do, but I don't know about older models. Torches are inexpensive. $200-$300 is an unbelievable steal if they are in working condition (even bare powersource, no torch, ground lead, flowmeter, electrical plug, running gear, etc). Sure that's the asking price, and not an opening bid amount?

[Realsquash]

First check to see if it'll run on single phase power. Current syncrowaves do, but I don't know about older models. Torches are inexpensive. $200-$300 is an unbelievable steal if they are in working condition (even bare powersource, no torch, ground lead, flowmeter, electrical plug, running gear, etc). Sure that's the asking price, and not an opening bid amount?

They have half a dozen of them and these are opening bids! However, if my previous experience with this auction house is any indicator I think I should be able to pick one of these up on the cheap. Time will tell. I'm trying to gauge the value of them before buying.

Andy

[Realsquash]

Well I don't know if I got it for cheap or not, but I paid $840+10% for it. It's water cooled, no tank, it looks like it's well used. I didn't look at it in person since it's two hours north of me... I might be tempting fate. I was considering buying a spool gun for my Miller 210 to do aluminum but this will do so much more for me. I think it's a good risk :laughing:

I did some research before I bought it this machine:

- Made in 1995
- All of these Syncrowave 250's were apparently single phase and the manual I downloaded confirms this
- I need to buy/lease a tank, it might have the flow regulator with it but I can't tell from the pix
- Comes with a Miller Radiator-2, which I can't seem to find much about. I believe this runs on 120vac and plugs into the welder for its power

Am I missing anything? I noticed a few of these welders have two panel meters on it that mine doesn't. My manual doesn't show them either so I'm not sure what I'm missing. I have never tig welded. Well I tried once in high school years ago and I just gave up due to lack of instruction. I might try to take a welding class or two at the tech college if I can make time for it.

Pix from the auction site:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3072/2677857136_04974720b1.jpg?v=0

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3177/2677856986_b5c90d3573.jpg?v=0

Andy

[blackrider]

my syncro 180 without cooler was 1700.00 6 yrs ago.that was a promotional price dropped down from 2000.00
a foot controller,in that photo it looks like it has one[four cords ,ground,gas,coolant,and the foot controller on the left]

[Realsquash]

A little update. I picked up the welder today. I need to buy a few things. My cheap little welder is turning into an expensive behemoth that I have no idea how to operate... It doesn't have a pedal, the 14-pin port is hooked up to the torch, which appears to only have a microswitch and is missing the cover, so it's taped over, too. All the cool people have a pedal to adjust as they go so I should probably buy one. Has anyone used the pedal offered by SSC Controls? Here's one on ebay for the right price... CLICKY (http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Foot-Control-Pedal-for-Miller-TIG-Welder-RFCS-14_W0QQitemZ260265878409QQihZ016QQcategoryZ11774QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

The output selector handle seems to engage really hard (you almost need two hands) but I suspect some of that is because it's been sitting unused for a while. I want to open up the machine and see how dirty it is in there. I have to rewire it for 230 volts and put a new connector on it, too. The front panel says it will draw 92 amps at 230 volts, that's way high! I'm going to be mainly using this for 1/8" AL, thin steel, and I'd like to learn to weld cast iron at some point. Well that's my intention, maybe I'll want to use it for everything? I have a Miller 210 MIG that works well for quick work. Right now I'm only set up for 60 amps in the whole shop. If I need to use 100 amps I have to rewire.

And I need to buy some electrodes and whatnot for the torch. I have no idea what to even get. Testing this thing out will be a treat.

Andy

[cabletech]

Keep in mind that if you're not running the welder at full power, you won't be pulling 92 amps. If you're at a low power setting, welding the small material you mention, you should be fine on the normal welder circuits. Yes it CAN pull 92 amps, but will it when you're welding 1/8" metal? Lord I hope not. :)

I ended up spending 50% of what the welder cost on accessories getting my welder up and running also. Such is life.

[jasonmt]

The inrush current (especially on a transformer machine starting in AC at full nut with the HF on and the balance control set full + or -) is generally what dictates the large electrical service, a electrical "worst case" if you will.

For what most guys are going to be doing in a home situation it will likely run fine on a 50A service, if it is blowing the breaker/OCPD the beauty of GTAW and a remote is that you can start at a lower amperage setting and increase it after the arc has started.

[tmorgan4]

Go for the SSC pedal. I just bought one of their factory "blems" a couple weeks ago and it is perfect. Works great and their service was great. Some people even like the SSC pedal better than the Millers.

[BumpyDodge]

A little update. I picked up the welder today. I need to buy a few things. My cheap little welder is turning into an expensive behemoth that I have no idea how to operate... It doesn't have a pedal, the 14-pin port is hooked up to the torch, which appears to only have a microswitch and is missing the cover, so it's taped over, too. All the cool people have a pedal to adjust as they go so I should probably buy one. Has anyone used the pedal offered by SSC Controls? Here's one on ebay for the right price... CLICKY (http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Foot-Control-Pedal-for-Miller-TIG-Welder-RFCS-14_W0QQitemZ260265878409QQihZ016QQcategoryZ11774QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

The output selector handle seems to engage really hard (you almost need two hands) but I suspect some of that is because it's been sitting unused for a while. I want to open up the machine and see how dirty it is in there. I have to rewire it for 230 volts and put a new connector on it, too. The front panel says it will draw 92 amps at 230 volts, that's way high! I'm going to be mainly using this for 1/8" AL, thin steel, and I'd like to learn to weld cast iron at some point. Well that's my intention, maybe I'll want to use it for everything? I have a Miller 210 MIG that works well for quick work. Right now I'm only set up for 60 amps in the whole shop. If I need to use 100 amps I have to rewire.

And I need to buy some electrodes and whatnot for the torch. I have no idea what to even get. Testing this thing out will be a treat.

Andy

First thing to do is go to millerwelds->resources->owners manuals and get the manual for your machine (PDF download is free). You'll need it eventually.

I have an SSC foot control - no complaints whatsoever. The only thing you might consider is installing some rubber feet on the bottom. The factory uses grip tape type stuff to keep the pedal from sliding around and it doesn't work that well unless you have a nice clean smooth floor. For my hand amptrol I use a CK amptrak (http://www.ckworldwide.com/amperage_controls.htm) (retails for $200, actually a *lot* less through your LWS).

If your torch has a simple microswitch on it, it may have a contactor switch (on/off) rather than a hand amptrol (variable). It'll work, but all it does is turn the torch on/off so it's hard to do a crater fill at the end of a weld.

If you want to sell the switch, shoot me a PM because I could use a 14 pin contactor. I can use the contactor to step the current up/down when I am running a pre-programmed sequence ("4T" mode w/Dynasty).

For electrodes 3/32" with a #6 cup is pretty much the standard to learn on. That combo also covers most of the range you'll be working in. To tell you what type of collets to get, I'd have to see the actual torch.

Since you are running a transformer type machine:
Pure Tungsten for AL (Green)
2% Thoriated Tungsten is most common for steel (red)

There is a hazard associated with Thoriated electrodes - They are mildly radioactive and the dust produced while sharpening them isn't healthy to be around. You can use Lanthanated or Ceriated electrodes if you're worried about the risk.

[Static-XJ]

The inrush current (especially on a transformer machine starting in AC at full nut with the HF on and the balance control set full + or -) is generally what dictates the large electrical service, a electrical "worst case" if you will.


Yep. At work I use a 350a transformer tig machine, needs a 50a circuit at 480v. We routinely have it plugged into a 30a circuit as the number of 50a receptacles in this part of the shop is limited. Only time we've ever tripped the breaker is on AC. Never had a problem with the 30a circuits and DC.

[John H]

First check to see if it'll run on single phase power. Current syncrowaves do, but I don't know about older models. Torches are inexpensive. $200-$300 is an unbelievable steal if they are in working condition (even bare powersource, no torch, ground lead, flowmeter, electrical plug, running gear, etc). Sure that's the asking price, and not an opening bid amount?


Pretty much all transformer based tig machines are single phase. You can use a DC constant current machine that is 3-phase for DC tig. But AC tig machines unless inverter are all single phase.

[Realsquash]

I picked up a tank and regulator today. I'm headed to town for a plug, tungstens, and filler rod. I have no idea where to start learning, but I need to verify that the machine actually works. It's been in storage for quite a while.

When I rewire my shop, just what kind of plug should I put on the welder for 100amp 240vac single phase?

Andy