I have a 2000 TJ that I am working on. I am swapping to 1 ton's, changing to an auto, Atlas, 4 link....blah blah. Last night I tried to install the auto. It auto is suppose to be from a 6cyl '98. I finally get everything straight and squared up and they won't fully meet together. This gets me swearing and extremely frustrated. I pull it all apart and toss the TC on the crank and everything fits fine there. I throw the tranny back up, with out the TC, and it fits fine.

So I pull out the tape measure to try and figure out what is going on. Here is what I came up with. The TC bottoms out against the flywheel before everything is bolted flush ~5/8" distance rougly between the engine and the tranny. I measured from the engine mounting surface to the mounting surface at the flywheel and came up with 7/8". When I measure from the mounting surface of the tranny to the mounting surface of the TC I come up with roughly 1/4". I am not sure what is going on or what changed in the 2 years difference between the engine and the tranny. I can't get the TC to go any further back into the tranny-it has a positive bottoming out once I slide it on the tranny.

So if anyone can shed any light on the the hell is going on it would be much appreciated.

And to top it off I am receiving a 95 GC in the next couple of weeks. It has a 5.2 and auto in it. I am starting to think about a V8 swap now. Anyone know if the tranny has a 23 spline output:evil::evil:

The TC needs to drop 3 times when you install it on the trans - it's just not fully seated yet.

3 times?

A buddy just told me that it needs to mesh on both sections of splines:rolleyes::rolleyes:

3 times?

A buddy just told me that it needs to mesh on both sections of splines:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Nope. Input shaft, pump splines and the pump drive tangs. Chances are pretty good that you don't have it lined up for the last drop onto the 2 pump tangs.

Take the converter off and look past the TC seal on the trans. You will be able to see where the slot on the TC needs to line up. Insert it like that and just wiggle it into place. Sometimes it's a pain to get it to drop the last time.

Thats why I stick to manual transmissions! :flipoff2:

There you go man, the pump engagement...(I didn't know about the third drop)

-Chris

I hope my wife appreciates this!!!

It better be easier to drive for all this extra work.

I'll have to give a go again on Sunday.

Thanks for the help.

Check the crank, most had a pilot bearing that was installed inside a bushing. You can not just pull the bearing. You must pull the bushing out of the crank for the TQ to seat fully in.

Check the crank, most had a pilot bearing that was installed inside a bushing. You can not just pull the bearing. You must pull the bushing out of the crank for the TQ to seat fully in.

If that were the case, the TC would not be hitting the flywheel - he would have a gap between the TC mounting pads and the flywheel.

Check the crank, most had a pilot bearing that was installed inside a bushing. You can not just pull the bearing. You must pull the bushing out of the crank for the TQ to seat fully in.

not needed- he already checked to make sure the converter would mate with the crank.



Blitz- if you can, stand the trans on end with the bell housing pointing up, shine a light inside the pump and look to see if the tangs are in good condition and not broken. If all is good, with the trans still on end, slide the convertor onto the pump splines and lower it down carefully and spin it while you do. You should feel it drop three times as it engages each part inside. Once it's in all the way, the convertor should be sitting below the level of the mating surface about an inch. Once the trans is bolted to the engine, the convertor should be able to slide back and forth on the input shaft.

Blitz- if you can, stand the trans on end with the bell housing pointing up, shine a light inside the pump and look to see if the tangs are in good condition and not broken. If all is good, with the trans still on end, slide the convertor onto the pump splines and lower it down carefully and spin it while you do. You should feel it drop three times as it engages each part inside. Once it's in all the way, the convertor should be sitting below the level of the mating surface about an inch. Once the trans is bolted to the engine, the convertor should be able to slide back and forth on the input shaft.

after reading this something else clicked-I had the tranny standing on end trying to understand what was going on-it was early in the am at this point-and ATF was coming out of the output. Now for the really noob question-does this mean I need a new output seal?

But otherwise I will get back to this and see if I can get it to mesh down 3 times.

after reading this something else clicked-I had the tranny standing on end trying to understand what was going on-it was early in the am at this point-and ATF was coming out of the output. Now for the really noob question-does this mean I need a new output seal?

But otherwise I will get back to this and see if I can get it to mesh down 3 times.

If you don't have a tcase installed, it would be normal for trans fluid to come out around the output shaft. If you mean the input shaft, it's also normal to have fluid leak out of there if you don't have a Torque convertor installed

Out put shaft as it was standing up with the bellhousing facing up.

I hate having to work for a living.

Out put shaft as it was standing up with the bellhousing facing up.

I hate having to work for a living.

that's normal. there is nothing to stop the fluid without the tcase bolted up.

that's normal. there is nothing to stop the fluid without the tcase bolted up.
yup. I wouldn't worry about the fluid from the rear.

and yes, the TC needs to drop 3 times. I fought this exact problem several years ago when I first swapped to an auto. Another one you might want to take not of. The torque converter will only bolt to the flexplate in one orientation. (at least on the 727 it does)

Oh, and the first 3 of 4 bolts will actually bolt up before you figure that out :rolleyes:

OK, I am helping Blitz with this issue, and we found that the tangs on the band are bent all to hell.

No matter what position the gear selector is in, the tranny wont turn.

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p255/the_freeak/forum%20pics/DSCF3315.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p255/the_freeak/forum%20pics/DSCF3314.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p255/the_freeak/forum%20pics/DSCF3316.jpg

The jeep this tranny was in previously was in a hard head on accident.

Is it possible this damage was caused by the accident? (the inertia slammed the internals against these tangs and bent them?)

neither of us knows much about automatics, and the junkyard we bought it from isn't being real helpful.

I wanted to get some opinions before I went back to the JY and raised hell.

thanks,

Chris

OK, I am helping Blitz with this issue, and we found that the tangs on the band are bent all to hell.

No matter what position the gear selector is in, the tranny wont turn.

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p255/the_freeak/forum%20pics/DSCF3315.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p255/the_freeak/forum%20pics/DSCF3314.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p255/the_freeak/forum%20pics/DSCF3316.jpg

The jeep this tranny was in previously was in a hard head on accident.

Is it possible this damage was caused by the accident? (the inertia slammed the internals against these tangs and bent them?)

neither of us knows much about automatics, and the junkyard we bought it from isn't being real helpful.

I wanted to get some opinions before I went back to the JY and raised hell.

thanks,

Chris

That's the 2nd gear band and it's very common for that to happen. They make a much better band that won't do it.

I asked Joe at Westminster if the fix was a new band, rebuild or different trans from the JY. He said, all of the above. :p

But will the damage to that band cause the tranny to not spin? Or are we looking at deeper issues in the tranny?

Ok a little update here. Just got the tranny back. It turns out that it was rebuilt previously and whoever worked on it installed the wrong band. Not sure if this caused all the problems in the first place but now everything spins freely. Before the tranny wouldn't spin no matter what. I even bolted the Atlas to the back of it in hopes that the gear reduction would move something and nothing worked.

This morning, before I had to go to work :barf:, I stood the tranny up on end and installed the TC. I am not sure if it dropped 3 times or not. My question is once fully seated will there be any part of the TC be past the mounting surface of the bell housing? I plan on trying to install all of this again Saturday night and I want to make sure there are no issues with the TC to tranny again. That bitch got heavy after a few hours of swearing on my back.

Will update this weekend with news one way of the other.

At some point I should start a build thread....when I have time.

Do some measuring before you install. Check distance from bellhousing face to converter bolt locations, then check distance on engine block to flex plate were converter bolts.
When together there should be some gap between the converter and the flex plate before you bolt them together.

should be about 1 inch recessed into the bellhousing. when you bolt the convertor to the flex plate, it will pull forward a little. When it's not bolted to the flex plate, you should be able to reach in and spin the convertor and under no circumstance should the convertor bind up against the flexplate when you tighten up the bell housing bolts to the back of the block.

should be about 1 inch recessed into the bellhousing. when you bolt the convertor to the flex plate, it will pull forward a little. When it's not bolted to the flex plate, you should be able to reach in and spin the convertor and under no circumstance should the convertor bind up against the flexplate when you tighten up the bell housing bolts to the back of the block.

This is the information that I was looking for! Thanks!

Hopefully all will go well this weekend and I will be able to get the drivetrain back in!

ok what is the trick to get the TC to drop all the way in? I just screwed around with it for a few minutes trying to get it to seat and it wouldn't drop the last time. The mounting tabs on the TC extend past the mounting surface still.

Is there something that I am missing?

Well the trick is to:
1: have the trans standing on end as in vertical
2: be gentle lowering the converter onto the shaft and feel each step/drop. If you get it on top of the pump notches it may just turn it too instead of dropping in.
3: If you first don't succeed try try again.

Well the trick is to:
1: have the trans standing on end as in vertical
2: be gentle lowering the converter onto the shaft and feel each step/drop. If you get it on top of the pump notches it may just turn it too instead of dropping in.
3: If you first don't succeed try try again.

also, take a flash light and shine it down there so you can see the pump tangs. You might need to align them side to side so that the convertir hub can slide in. Sort of like lining up a clutch disc so that the input shaft will slide in correctly. The pump gears can get off center which is why it's usually a lot easier to stand the trans on end and carefully drop the converter in. This helps keep the pump gears from getting off center if the trans was sitting horizontally.

Get out the BIG hammer:laughing:

When I install a TC I turn it slowly as I push it in, it will go in and stop, turn it some more it will go in more and stop, turn it some more and it will go in and stop again. That how I do it and have had good luck with it. My friend and I learned about seating the TC the hard way when we were 15. It took out the pump. :homer: Any way hope that helps.

Get out the BIG hammer:laughing:

you are not helping.

don't you have docs to be attending to?

When I install a TC I turn it slowly as I push it in, it will go in and stop, turn it some more it will go in more and stop, turn it some more and it will go in and stop again. That how I do it and have had good luck with it. My friend and I learned about seating the TC the hard way when we were 15. It took out the pump. :homer: Any way hope that helps.
that's how I've always done it as well. Sometimes you have to turn back and forth, but eventually it will fall in that third step.

i had similar problems last year. reading this thread might benefit you...


http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=665872

crap! I don't want to pull the pump out of this thing again!

Thanks Rob. I will take a look into it tonight and see what's up.

crap! I don't want to pull the pump out of this thing again!

Thanks Rob. I will take a look into it tonight and see what's up.

on my tranny, i was able to see that the gear was in backward with a flashlight. didn't even have to take the tranny apart to see the problem. not sure what tranny you're using, but perhaps you'de be able to see the same. good luck.

I doubt the gear is in backwards; remember this DID come out of a running jeep.

And the trans shop that did the work is pretty well known for being good.

Besides, Rob was working with a totally different trans.

With the TC on the shaft you should be able to keep spinning the TC and shaking it and it will drop the three times. When it is all the way down, it will be about an inch into the case. You will not be able to put your fingers between the back of the TC and the case. This is how I teach people to make sure it's all the way in. If not, when you put it up and start tightening the bellhousing bolts, the pump can and will be damaged.

Before you put it on the shaft, it's a good idea to line up the TC on the flywheel and mark it, because it only lines up one way. It will make it easier when you are putting it together. Also finger tighten all the bolts before you crank any of them down.