Cutting disk test

[nissancrawler]

Well, a company on garage journal put their product up for test, rather than yapping about it.

I know people can't read the forum there, so I'm going to c+p the pertinent posts here...


The Smith & Arrow rep:

"Hi,

I am the Managing Director of a company called Smith & ARROW - we sell abrasives all over the world.

We believe our cutting wheels, grinding wheels and zirconia flap wheels are as good as the best in the world at fraction of the price. To prove this point I would be more than happy to send a free sample box of 25 of our INOX grade Ultrathin Cutting Wheels (either 4", or 41/2", or 5") x 1mm to a member of your forum to test and report on.

These discs are excellent for cutting stainless steel, mild steel and aluminium.

Please respond with the most suitable member you guys believe would be best to prove our claim!

Our products are available 24 hours a day on ebay or from our web site www.smithandarrow.com"



Review from a body shop owner (jimvannoy):

"Got my wheels a couple days ago. Aside from the shipping time they seem to me to be very high quality. I had to cut some rebar to build a stand for something and they sliced right through it. Cutting sheet metal panels was no problem at all. The discs seemed to last longer and cut faster than other brands I have used. I even got one in a bind and thought for sure it would break. It did not. $18.25 per box of 25 is a good price on the 4 1/2 wheels and the price per disc drops with the more you order but I could not find shipping charges so not sure how much it would work out to per box total. Like I said I do have a bit of a problem with shipping problems/time. If I know I am going to need some x numbers of days from now I want to know when I order them that they are going to arrive so I don't end up putting off work or have to make a trip to get some locally. I guess if you order far enough in advance it would not be a problem but don't expect quick arrival. Not real sure I like the return policy stated on the invoice:

"We do not accept returns under any circumstances. If there is a genuine problem we will resend extra."

That covers damaged or missing items but I guess if you accidentally order the wrong size, type, or grit you are SOL. Also did not see it stated on the web site anywhere I looked.

Overall I like them and would rate them up there with the best. They seemed to cut fast, last a long time, and not build up as much heat as other brands. If shipping is cheap I'll probably end up ordering more."



My review:

"Well, the proof is in the pudding...

I drew a line at a set point in each material, and ran both wheels to the same point and timed it with a timer.

The 4.5" wheels were done on a 8.5 amp Milwaukee grinder.

The 3" wheels were done on an HF pneumatic cutoff tool. I dumped the tank pressure until it kicked in and pumped the tank back up to full pressure before each test.

You'll note on the thinner stuff, I only used the 3" wheels. The 4.5" wheels would have gone through so fast it wouldn't be a fair test, plus you probably would be using a 3" wheel on that material, anyway.

You'll also note on the 1" aluminum I only used 4.5" wheels. I would rather watch paint dry than try it with 3" wheels.

1/4" steel

4.5" Dewalt wheel = 8 seconds
4.5" S&A wheel = 6 seconds

3" Brilliant wheel = 28 seconds
3" S&A wheel = 23 seconds

1" aluminum

4.5" Dewalt wheel = 22 seconds
4.5" S&A wheel = 14 seconds

.032" stainless

3" Brilliant wheel = 14 seconds
3" S&A wheel = 10 seconds

.032 titanium
3" Brilliant wheel = 19 seconds
3" S&A wheel = 11 seconds

4.5" Dewalt starting diameter = 4.5"
4.5" Dewalt ending diameter = 4 5/16"

4.5" S&A starting diameter = 4.5"
4.5" S&A ending diameter = 4 5/16"

3" Brilliant starting diameter = 3 1/16"
3" Brilliant ending diameter = 2 7/16"

3" S&A starting diameter = 2 15/16"
3" S&A ending diameter = 2 7/8"

The S&A wheels seem to hold their own quite well.

Price:
4.5" Dewalt = $1.40/each (best I could find on the net) = $35 (for 25, found locally, no shipping)

4.5" S&A = $18.25 (per 25) + $2.58 shipping = $20.83

I might have to try the 14" wheels when I wear out the couple I have now. The prices are on par with the 14" Dewalt red wheels.

As a side note, I noticed the S&A wheels wanted to bind much less than the Brilliant or Dewalt wheels."

There are a few others still waiting to test them, I'll post up when they do.

Note: About the shipping time, the rep tried to send the samples himself, and apparently used a different shipping than normal, so it took a long time to show up. Meanwhile, he had the actual shipping department send them and they showed up within days, so it's not a thing I would worry about much...

[BruceTS]

The best I have used so far have been the HF 4 1/2" cut-off wheels and when on sale they are $5.99 for 10 pk........

[nissancrawler]

The best I have used so far have been the HF 4 1/2" cut-off wheels and when on sale they are $5.99 for 10 pk........

Junk.

[nissancrawler]

chad_s review:
"I dont have my full report ready yet, however, these are the fastest cutting, smoothest cutting, and cleanest cutting cut off wheels I have used. I am very impressed with them. Where else can you find 1/32" 3" cut off wheels for your pneumatic cut off tool? This is something I have been looking for for a long time, and the S&W fit the bill well."

Me:
"Did you notice much less binding, too?

I have to admit, when I first saw S&A's proposition, I though they either had to be full of themselves, or had one hell of a product.

I'm glad to see it was the latter.

I get so sick of hearing companies spew verbal diarrhea about their products, without backing it up. I was impressed to see a company that showed up, slapped the product down on the table to be tried, without giving a bunch of bullshit hype. That's putting your ass on the line."

jimvannoy:
"Yes and I say they passed the test with flying colors!"

[Jeepermat]

The best I have used so far have been the HF 4 1/2" cut-off wheels and when on sale they are $5.99 for 10 pk........

Better put on your flak jacket and full face shield cause those fawkers will tear you in half when they come apart.:mad3:

[braxton357]

The best I have used so far have been the HF 4 1/2" cut-off wheels and when on sale they are $5.99 for 10 pk........

Yep. Go to a good hardware store and try some real cutting discs. Huge difference. Cutting/grinding wheels are one of the one things I won't even consider buying from HF. Seems like a good deal until you realize those 10 last about as long as 2 good ones.
Also good to see a mfr putting their products up for real review.

[nissancrawler]

Better put on your flak jacket and full face shield cause those fawkers will tear you in half when they come apart.:mad3:

I had two 14" hf chopsaw wheels explode on their first start and bury themselves in 5/8" sheetrock. I know damn well it would go further than that in human flesh. I'll keep that shit out of my shop.

"I save $5 on 10 di....."
*wheel through aorta*
*gurgle gurgle*

Yeah, no thanks.

[Brad]

not to mention HF cut off wheels are thicker than normal .045 cut off wheels. Ill never use them.

[rock mafia]

The best I have used so far have been the HF 4 1/2" cut-off wheels and when on sale they are $5.99 for 10 pk........


I've probably used 200 or more of them, last longer than dewalts, nortons never had one fly apart. Only thing I worry about is breathing whatever russian shit they're made of.

I've used 40+ of their 14 chopsaw blades, never had fly apart unless I was doing something dumb. Last as long as dewalts.


Knocking on wood as I go back out in the shop.

[rock mafia]

http://stores.ebay.com/smith-and-arrow

[BruceTS]

Junk.

I've used every other brand in town and they don't last anywhere near as long and cost 3 to 5 times as much, I guess I'll just keep using the HF JUNK......

Better put on your flak jacket and full face shield cause those fawkers will tear you in half when they come apart.:mad3:

Have you ever used them before????? obviously not...... I've had Dewalts expolde on me and have yet had an HF one come apart, unless I bind them, then only a chunk comes off...

Yep. Go to a good hardware store and try some real cutting discs. Huge difference. Cutting/grinding wheels are one of the one things I won't even consider buying from HF. Seems like a good deal until you realize those 10 last about as long as 2 good ones.
Also good to see a mfr putting their products up for real review.

Strange you say that, Dewalts last half as long as the HF discs.... Remember I'm only talking about their 4 1/2" cut-off disc they are only 1/16" thick.... Have you even tried them?

Maybe I should get some of these new disc and do my own comparison test...

[Von Moldy]

I have used the HF discs and the Norton brand. To me it seemed the HF discs wore way faster than the Norton discs. The Norton ones also seemed to not heat up the metal as much.

[ChiScouter]

I once had the misfortune of HF discs, made tons of heat and wore very quickly, I will agree total junk. I own some HF stuff but am very leary about what I buy there, I don't think anything they sell is very heavy duty or of good quality. I figure most guys why are always looking to buy from there are short sighted and/or inexperienced. FWIW I don't think much of the DeWalt or Makita branded stuff either.

Norton is great, as is Walter brand. McMaster Carr has very good quality wheels and every size and thickness you could imagine.













.

[Jeepermat]

Have you ever used them before????? obviously not...... I've had Dewalts expolde on me and have yet had an HF one come apart, unless I bind them, then only a chunk comes off...





Yep, and the scars to prove it. I went back to Nortons and couldnt believe the difference, chuck up a HF disk, make some cuts then do the same with a Norton, or any other decent brand and you will notice a huge difference.
The HF looks like a good deal, but for me its not worth it.

[RustoleumWhite]

Are we comparing reinforces wheels vs non-reinforced wheels??


In the little I used them (compared to other folks) there is a night-and-day difference in wear and cut-quality between a (cheap) non-reinforced wheel and a reinforced unit.

[blackrider]

hf.... you must be retarded...
so far nothing beats a sait

[Proeliator]

The best I have used so far have been the HF 4 1/2" cut-off wheels and when on sale they are $5.99 for 10 pk........

Are you fawking kidding me!?!? I suppose they are great if you like picking shrapnel out of your face.

I can be cheap at times, but cutting disks are the one exception where I NEVER go cheap.....those of you who've had near death experiences when they've exploded in your face know what I'm talking about.

edit: Anyways, to the OP, thanks for the info. I'd forgotten about Garage Journal, I'll have to take a look at them again.

[braxton357]

Strange you say that, Dewalts last half as long as the HF discs.... Remember I'm only talking about their 4 1/2" cut-off disc they are only 1/16" thick.... Have you even tried them?

Maybe I should get some of these new disc and do my own comparison test...

I still have two ten packs of them in the garage... I'm not a fan of dewalt either, but I would also put money on the dewalt lasting longer if you were to really test them.

I might actually do a test now as well when I get a chance.

[jptbay]

so far nothing beats a sait

X2

I have 15 amp breakers in the garage and any cheap cut off disc's in the chop saw (Ridgid 15amp) cut like shit and trip out the breaker constantly.

Quality disc's cut MUCH faster and no breaker kick-outs. The Sait brand ones have been a step above the Norton's. I just took a chance and bought a box of Jet brand disc's that were pretty cheap at about $5 per disc and they seem to compare with the Norton's, so they seem to be a good bang for the buck.

(For any Canucks) I was in a pinch a while ago and grabbed some store brand ones at Canadian Tire. Total garbage and $15 each, ouch. Returned them.

[Von Moldy]

I think I have learned from the HF cutoff discs and the HF chop saw blade. Not to buy any abrasives from HF.

[pendy]

Walther cut off discs have been the best im my experience. I look forward to ordering some of these though considering the price.

Have you ever noticed how you can smell brain cells dying when you use Harbor freight cut off wheels? The fiberglass sucks out brain cells like painting with Imron and no mask. My experience anyway. Maybe someone has been cutting with them to much?

[rock mafia]

Have you ever noticed how you can smell brain cells dying when you use Harbor freight cut off wheels? The fiberglass sucks out brain cells like painting with Imron and no mask. My experience anyway. Maybe someone has been cutting with them to much?

Yes. That's what scares me about them:vader2:, they've made alot of black boogers.

[Smith & ARROW]

Hi Guys,

I am the MD of Smith & ARROW (US)LLC. A big thanks to Nissancrawler for posting some of the stuff we have been doing on Garage Journal.

Agreed, cheap is often a case of "you get what you pay for" - but there are exceptions to most rules.

We have only been in the US for a few months - sent in enough stock (we forcasted) to last twelve months - just to test the reception. As of last week we are completly sold out of 41/2", and 5" Ultrathin INOX Cutting Wheels in the US. We have experienced demand well beyond what we could have hoped for. New stock due in at the end of August.

However, I would be more than happy to airfreight in 3 sample packs of 25 from Australia to your members if they are happy to take the time to do some testing and comparisons for us here. (3", 41/2", 5" x 1/32"). However, we do need to find experienced users - people used to using ultrathin cutting wheels who can test on Stainless as well as other metals.

Having read through the comments above, if I am taken up on my offer, I am very much looking forward to some pretty honest, if not blunt feedback :)

Ben Ferguson
Managing Director
Smith & ARROW (US) LLC
www.smithandarrow.com

[pendy]

I use cutting discs everyday. Send me a pack. I will PM you an address.

Jim Pendleton

[willymutt]

I am getting ready to start a buggy project and will be doing a lot of cutting and grinding on a frame. I'd love to do a review on them.

[MikeW]

The Hilti grinding wheels last, they are the best I have used, but I haven't tried their cutting wheels.

[oldjeep]

I've used at least 40 HF 4.5" x 1/16 cutoff wheels and a few of their chop saw blades - never had one come apart. Only brand I've had problems with are Vermont American - their chop saw blades come apart if you look at them funny.