Ok, seemed to be some interest on this topic on the photo thread.. Thought it might deserve its own thread.

The discussion was what options are there for a potential expedition rig that is comfortable, has long range, can carry gear, semi-capable offorad yet still returns better then 20 mpg.

Some people suggested Toyota mini truck with a 22R. My experience is that it is not comfortable (cabin is small) and does not get 20 mpg when carrying a load.

Samurai - Comfortable??? Are you kidding? Yes, they actually have more room then a Toyota Mini truck, but that is not saying much. The overall comfort sucks.

I'm surprised to hear a diesel Liberty gets better then 30 MPG. That is pretty darn great if it is true. And being diesel, it is prime for a veggie conversion. :D

I toy with the idea of getting something like an FJ60 or similar and dropping a 7.3 Powerstroke motor into it. You can get the motors pretty cheap and would return pretty good fuel numbers on such a light vehicle. (Light compared to the Ford!)

Here in the US our diesel choices are very limited. We have the trucks, the VWs and some old Mercedes... Very little else. Very little. I wish we had more options for say a 3 liter turbo diesel.

-Wayne

The owner of AEV built a long wheelbase TJ with the Liberty power train ( 2.8 CRD, 545 auto, and np242 ). He is getting right right about 20mpg pushing 37s on the interstate at 75mph.

The downside is that he will NOT do the swap again. There are some round about ways that the swap might be able to be done at home, but getting everything to work like stock is damn near impossible for the DIY type person. the biggest problem if the interface between the TJ PCI network and the KJ CRD can-c network. The factory KJ application of the diesel has a front control module to provide some translation functions but you would still need to make other things work for the TJ. There is a great thread I started about this over on the AEV forum.

Mopar performance is toying with the idea of providing a 2.8L CRD diesel conversion using the military version of the TJ as an engine donor. That engine is far less complicated without the EGR and coolant heater.

The golden question is how much are you willing to pay for a 3 liter diesel engine for re-powering vehicles in the USA? I have been trying to organize something for a few years now...it is proving difficult.

My buddy's stock Liberty CRD gets about 22mpg in town and 29 on the highway.

I looked into a diesel liberty buy what turned me off were the transmission problems.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=jeep+liberty+transmission+problem&btnG=Search
There was also someone on this board that bought one and ended up having to have the dealer buy it back.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=555671&highlight=jeep+liberty
The motor seems to be the best part of the truck and there are rumors of them being offered as a crate motor.

The only reason I would shy away from a 7.3 is that its a very heavy beast. I would bet that the frame would need boxed, the suspension would need serious mods and the size of the engine would stuff the engine compartment. I am a fan of the qirky 6.5l diesel. They are fairly cheap, if you know a few simple mods they are very reliable with good power and give good fuel mileage. They bolt up to standard chevy mounts, use a standard chevy trans. just a thought


micky

What kind of milage do you think a fj55 with a 6.5 would get?

PSDs should only be removed from vehicles, never swapped into one... Cummins 4BT is where it's at, typically 25-35 MPG depending on how large of rig it's put in, fully mechanical so no electronic shit to deal with either.

Hey Guys,

I like the idea of this thread, because I'm trying to build just that.

The problem with diesel is You cant see any more bang for the btu's, if it's a dollar more per gallon. Not mentioning more accquisition, maintenance cost, and weight.

Am I missing something?

Thanks, Kiwi

The real MPG kings in serious offroad vehicles that I've seen are Cummins 4BT swaps into half-ton chassis. I've seen a few half-ton rigs with the 4BT swapped in that claim ~25MPG. If one can find a P7100 4BT, it will take all the same fuel-injection performance bits that go into the 2nd Gen Dodge Cummins 6BT.

My rig is a '96 Dodge Ram 2500 with the 6BT. I get around 18MPG mixed. The truck is on 35s and has no mods for fuel economy other than a camper shell, which may help some. A new set of injectors and pump timing should yield a few mpg improvement that might get me north of 20MPG. It's not really uncommon for folks to claim ~22MPG on a stock truck.

Cummins 4bt if you have the height or can make it, its about 750 pounds dry without accessories so not light.

An alternative would be an OM603 or 606 Mercedes, some like the OM617, I dont. An expo rig is usally heavy for its size, so 20mpg on the highway may be a stretch. You will never see that off road. Hwy mileage of 14-17 may be more realistic, but I could be wrong.

A 3/4 ton diesel can easily get 20MPG with some mods dep on your make and model, it may even get that stock. Just not sure how great of an expedition platform it would make dep on your terrain, location, etc. Not a bad choice though if you get one without all the electronic crap on it...

Only one way to find out...

Here is an MJ (Commanche) CRD swap in the works
Naxja (http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=955062)

If your looking at a diesel swap on a 60, Id be looking at the isuzu motor. The box trucks are easy to find in decent shape for under 5k, and the motor is an easy swap to an old cruiser.

But, IMHO, I would rather have reliability, and good availability of parts than mpg. Its nice being able to go to the local parts place for a starter. For a good expedition rig, I'd much rather have an 80 or 100 series that gets 14 mpg, then something with odd ball parts (which take a week to ship it) so I can get 20. That one time you are 4 days late for work, because your truck was broken, will more than justify the added expense in fuel.

My CJ7 w/ a 4BT gets 30mpg with a bunch of junk in it. When it comes to comfort though...its as comfortable as any 25 year old leaf sprung vehicle can be. The nice part about the swap is that I have used all parts that you can get at a parts store, this includes driveshafts. I guess the only oddball part is the NV4500 to D300 adapter.

Yah, I'll chime in on the 4BT also. It's a "six of one, half dozen of the other" thing though. I went through the same issues and eventually went with something that could handle more weight, tow more, and we can sleep in it. 15-16 mpg isn't too bad, wish I had more range though.

What kind of milage do you think a fj55 with a 6.5 would get?
Considering my FJ55 with the stock 4.0 liter got about 9, I'd say you're lucky to get it to 7 MPG. An FJ55 ain't the smoothest when it comes to airstream.... more like a brick.

I figured I was doing pretty good with my 89 XJ with 4:56 gears and 33s getting 14 MPG.

Anything over 10 is pretty decent in a fullsize during off road excursions. My 6.9 Ford Diesel gets about 10 running hard all day in the snow or sand. It will pull 15 all day long at 75 mph. On flat level dirt roads keeping rpm's down low and speeds at 45 or less, it will pull 17-18 pretty easy.

My Ramcharger with a TBI 360 got 12-14 with the stock tires. On 35's with 3.55 gears it gets 8 and it's a total dog. Someday it may get a 4b, but right now it does everything except pass a gas station, and gears are on the way soon, so that might improve soon too.

Considering my FJ55 with the stock 4.0 liter got about 9, I'd say you're lucky to get it to 7 MPG. An FJ55 ain't the smoothest when it comes to airstream.... more like a brick.

.

Others who have 6.5 fitted to 60 and 70 series Toyota report a big improvemnet over the gasser. The 60 and 70 are not all that wind friendly either

What about the Dodge Sprinter / Mercedes box vans? It is supposed to be a 5 cyl. diesel and get great mileage for a box van.

I imagine that availability is tight, but is this what they use in the rest of the world too?


Carl

any bj landcruiser should do you, for comfort find a 60, 70 or 80

Our extra-cab V6/5spd Tacoma with 33x10.5x15 BFG's pulls 18-20mpg. Off-road and loaded, it still never dips below 16-17mpg.

What kind of weight can a 4BT pull? I'm trying to decide whether to swap a 4BT or a 5.9L Cummins into a '72 Suburban.

What about a Dodge Power wagon with a cummins swap and the new 6 speed hand shaker? Your 456 gears will hurt fuel but could be re-geared for better fuel. You get factory lockers and a 12 warn alreadied buried in the nose. The Hemi will yeild about 10-12 mpg but the cummins should get you closer to the 20-22 mpg marker.

Uh, why wouldn't you just put a winch and lockers in a CDT?

Uh, why wouldn't you just put a winch and lockers in a CDT?

The power wagon is not just lockers and winch, you pick up a factory rig that is designed to be an off -road and is beefier then the stock version. I am not sure of his budget and his skill level. I would not tackle a gas to diesel swap myself, but would have to think that if you went with a dodge truck and swapped in an optional engine for the stock version that you would run into less electrical gremlins and have an easier time finding your electrical components to prevent crazy dead time with electrical issues. Just offering a thought, and you can get it as luxury inside as you want

The power wagon is not just lockers and winch, you pick up a factory rig that is designed to be an off -road and is beefier then the stock version.
Oh, fuck me.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the Power Wagon is an overpriced joke. Start with a normal CTD Dodge, which already has axles as good or better, and heavier suspension than the Power Wagon and add a winch and normal sway bar disconnects and poof, you have a better truck without paying for the "Power Wagon" name that has no business on such a joke of a truck with too many gadgets.

I've got an 02 CTD 2500 shortbed 4door (Batwing Doors). Not too many places I care to try and go that I can't get too with only a powerlock rear, 5" lift and 35's. A front locker, and a sway bar disconnect would be nice, but there are places that you really don't want to try and get a 7K lb truck with most of the weight on the front tires. Mine gets crap for mileage, I get 15 empty, 10 or less pulling heavy. I have no idea why, but it's always gotten crap for mileage. I've put 20K miles on it and changed all kinds of things hunting better mpg, no luck. It runs good, but I'm not ever expecting more than 15 empty out of it...

Our extra-cab V6/5spd Tacoma with 33x10.5x15 BFG's pulls 18-20mpg. Off-road and loaded, it still never dips below 16-17mpg.

What kind of weight can a 4BT pull? I'm trying to decide whether to swap a 4BT or a 5.9L Cummins into a '72 Suburban.

Jesse,
I think, geared correctly, a 4bt would do just fine in a suburban....so long as all you wanted to do w/ it was just drive the suburban around. most 4bt's spend their whole lives pulling those bread vans around...which prolly weigh at least as much as that 'burb, and are litterally a box moving through the air....
but, at the same time, its going to be no hot rod. I'm guessing a 4bt turned up a little will be alot like an old stock 350....but should net much better milage.

I'm just getting into a new project here....its gonna be a 4bt powered 78/79 bronco....I'm thinking 4bt - zf 5spd....I'm hoping for mid-20's at a comfortable hiway cruise. It won't set the world on fire....but I've got other rigs for that. I just want 'adequate' power to get it around, and have a 1000 mile range w/ 50 gal's of fuel.

--B

^^^i concur, just remember the higher you lift it, the bigger the tires, the lower your gears, and the heavier it is the less likely you are to achieve 20+. I'm trying to keep in mind with my '89 suburban build that a mid 90's dodge with a cummins and one tons is approx. 7500#'s for xcab and got 18-20+ mpg, so i am trying to keep my weight down to 6000-6500#'s so i can acount for gear and people.

4nt would definately get better mpg but the abilties for towing heavier loads long distances comfortably, would also go down.

meh food for thought

i have a 09 Jeep Wrangler rubicon unlimted with bumpers, a winch and a 2" lift. my best mileage was 20-21mpg as long as i keep it 65mph and under. this is loaded with gear for a 3 night outting.
I bet it can do better with some all-terrian tires

Jim Allen's fourwheeler project K5 (99-2000-ish) was a '83 (I think) with the 6.2 and a turbo with about 4" of lift overall, 35's on the 10 bolts with 4.10's, 700R4 and 208. He was clocking 18 on the highway (70-75). When we put the Doubler in it, the milage dropped into the mid 16's. Maybe there was a reason the OE's went to chain drive planet boxes.g

With 33's and maybe 3.42's or 3.73's this combo could make 20 and still be pretty capable offroad. At least capable enough to take someone camping.

Other than a single cab late model diesel (pick your flavor and year) I can't think of any other 20mpg full size options.

If you further refine the rules to include 35" tires the quest gets harder.

Better than 20 loaded down with gear in a factory vehicle (no swaps) is going to require a midsize with a 4cyl 5speed or a vehicle with a diesel engine imo.

I had a "comfortable" 01 5 speed 2.7 Tacoma with an extended cab that would see over 20 with 265 all terrains and all my gear. Downshifting and spending time in the slow lane in the canyons was inevitable but far from anemic. Rangers, S10's and many of the other import trucks and some SUV's will as long as they are 4cyl. There are few V6's that will clear 20mpg with a load that I am aware of.

Dodge trucks with the Cummins and possibly even the Ford 7.3's (PSD) can get over 20mpg with a load, but you typically need a manual, the right options and you have to know how to use your rpm's. A first gen Cummins with a 5 speed will easily clear 20 but you will loose the comfort requirement--trust me I know :laughing:

Put the GM 6.2/6.5's on the list. GM's are also very comfortable for the most part. It is not uncommon for a properly tuned 6.2/6.5 to get into the mid 20mpg.

As for swaps an 80 series Cruiser with a rotary pump (VE) 4BT would be my ultimate rig for great comfort and economy.

Given that I only have grudging respect for them...

What about a damn suburu? They'll get the milage and are moderately capable in bad road conditions. For 2 people camping at a level just above a backpack or horse they'll carry the gear.

i guess at some point we have to define the level of offroad ability required but i've still seen those cars some crazy places. And define what kind of payload we require. I know some of them have or at least had low range so it's OK to at least talk about them here.

Given that I only have grudging respect for them...

What about a damn suburu? They'll get the milage and are moderately capable in bad road conditions. For 2 people camping at a level just above a backpack or horse they'll carry the gear.

i guess at some point we have to define the level of offroad ability required but i've still seen those cars some crazy places. And define what kind of payload we require. I know some of them have or at least had low range so it's OK to at least talk about them here.


WTF!! YOU'RE A RETARD! :flipoff2:

hehehe. :D JUST KIDDING. There is a lot to be said for a vehicle like that, if it suits your needs. (not YOUR needs.. I've been to the shop!)... the payload is pretty low on your average car-based 4wd vehicle... but if you don't need the clearance or load-carrying acumen of a larger vehicle, why not? They'll get you to an awful lot of Utah, I know that much.... and what you can get to in a Subaru here is pretty sweet.... I'd say they are a great choice if the drawbacks aren't drawbacks to the user. *shrug*


Personally I wouldn't, because they wouldn't hold up over the high-speed dirt roading with a load in them... and they're small. I am toying with the idea of a 6bt in a Burb, with a smallish lift, and some smart interior renovations to accomodate the kids... they can haul everything I want (plus tools and spare parts), go everywhere I would go with my family inside, and provide a very capable mobile base camp from which we can explore the Intermountain West. :D

Personally I wouldn't, because they wouldn't hold up over the high-speed dirt roading with a load in them... and they're small. I am toying with the idea of a 6bt in a Burb, with a smallish lift, and some smart interior renovations to accomodate the kids... they can haul everything I want (plus tools and spare parts), go everywhere I would go with my family inside, and provide a very capable mobile base camp from which we can explore the Intermountain West. :D

I'm real curious how a 4bt would do in something like a 'burban...
granted they don't make much HP, but w/ the torque they generate, I can't imagine they'd be much different than any stock small block that came in any of these 70/80's trucks (and get twice the milage while doing it)
I'm still slowly acquiring the parts to do my 4bt swap in a 78/79 bronco.

--B

RE: SUBARUS

There is a lot to be said for a vehicle like that, if it suits your needs. ...the payload is pretty low on your average car-based 4wd vehicle... but if you don't need the clearance or load-carrying acumen of a larger vehicle, why not? They'll get you to an awful lot of Utah, I know that much.... and what you can get to in a Subaru here is pretty sweet.... I'd say they are a great choice if the drawbacks aren't drawbacks to the user. *shrug*



On Expedition Portal a guy from Australia was thinking/asking about using his WRX to take him and his G/F and go basically around the world, all of Australia, Africa, Europe, North and then South America.
I said the same thing about the load carrying capacity, and a couple other things:
When (not if) something on the Suby breaks in the middle of the savana in Africa - how hard would it be to find a mechanic to fix it? How long would it take to get the part needed? How long did he and his G/F feel like being stranded??? etc...
Also, given the vehicle's limited size, how much gear could you really take? And with limited gear, your year long (maybe longer?) trip is going to have limited comforts.
I suggested going with something like a Toy Cruiser that has been tested multiple times in many similar trips and has served the occupants well. He lives in Australia already = abundance of great rigs that he could get at relatively low used prices.

As for taking A subaru around N. America with light offroading/back roads, I like the idea. You're still limited by the load you can carry, but if there was a balance struck between camping and motelling, I think you could get by.
The larger models with the rear seats folded down would open up a lot of space, and putting an RTT up top while killing some of your fuel economy would allow you a quick and comfotable sleeping setup for 2 people.

To this day, I miss my Tercel 4wd Wagon. Had a standard 22r engine in it.
When in 4wd, you had an "Extra Low" gear. I have crawled out of many a mud hole with that gear. I actually took mine of road. If I had it today.. I would sawzall the fenders and put bigger rubber on it.

Got amazing MPG.

http://jalopnik.com/360254/1985-tercel-4wd-wagon-the-official-car-of-santa-claus?autoplay=true

Not my Tercel... But I did this with mine.
http://www.forum-auto.com/uploads/200601/tercel_1137020531_47.jpg

Why not a Land Rover Defender 110. With the 25 year law into effect, you can now import a 1983-83 110 , some already fitted with the 200 or 300 tdi motor to your door for 13-17K.
With the 300 tdi (4cyl.), the little diesel nets you about 22-25 mpg with 35" SSR's. You can do some slight axle tweaking and for about $20-22K, you'd have a nice rig.
The diesel is about the only Rover motor that is reliable, so I would stay away from anything with a gas engine.

i am getting my 89 sub prepped for a cummins and have been thinking this through for a couple of years. currently it has a 4" lift, to fit 36" tires possibly some 40's w/ a little nibbling later on

-got a dana 70 with 3.54 gears out of a van to put in. after cummins swap will be looking for a gm 60 and put 3.54 gears in it
-looking for a 1st gen cummins for good mileage and ease to work on.
-will be putting a dodge nv4500
-ford 203 need to talk to stephen see if he wants to trade a gm for a ford
-and my gm 205 double.

doubler will be set up ford and gm so i can have a perfectly flatbelly belly to make up for the low lift

gearing- crawl ratio if i remember is 78:1, with lomax it was 118:1, at 65 my rpm's were 1600. at 75- 1850 rpm

weight wise comparable set ups are 6500 pounds empty, i figure fully loaded i'd be 8500-9000 lbs.

4bt makes approx same power stock as a 6.2 and can be turned up to make it more fun.

i am choosing the 6bt for mine due to versatility, able to tow heavy, 4x, and get good mileage.

from what i have researched on cumminsforum the 1st gen has the most people getting 20+ mpg in 7000#+ trucks.

i figure i could get 20+ empty with this setup and approx 16 loaded.

and this all uses very common parts for bfe breakdown, ability to run biodiesel and wvo or wmo. if i was starting over i would start with a diesel sub in the first place instead of what i gots.

On a recent 2000+ mile trip I averaged 14+ MPG with this setup. Without the camper I routinely see 18-20 mpg on the hwy. Truck alone weighs 7300lbs.

It is an old Bell Camper, retrofitted to fit my flatbed F250 Powerstroke 4x4. Fully loaded and ready to roll the camper weighs 2500lbs

Stock size tires, 4:10 gears, nothing but intake and exhaust for the engine.

The truck has 240k miles on it now, and will easily do double that. No need to swap it out for a Cummins just yet:flipoff2:

http://www.bonnefinstudios.com/kwb/projects/bellcamper/wintertrip18.jpg

Sometimes you will see better milage with a 6BT than a 4BT if the 4BT is under load all the time mileage will drop and could be worse than the 6.

In the distant future my plans are a Mercedes Benz OM642 3.0l V6 diesel out of a grand cherokee or a 320 cdi Benz, if the donor is the benz you get a 7 speed auto with a 2 speed reverse. :flipoff2:

what about a Cummins in a Blazer Chalet? sweet camping rig if you ask me
http://www.blazerchalet.com/wiggins2.jpg

The vehicle: 1980 IH Scout weighing in at 4500 lbs.
Engine: 1988 Cummins 4BT, stock fueling
Trans: NV4500
gears: 3.73
Tires: BFG mud 33/11.50/15

Most of this reflects in town driving, I would say anything over 24mpg is highway about 65 mph-70mph at the most.

2003:
Date_________mpg____gallons___COST
2003-01-12___22.78___15.113___$22.05
2003-02-10___25.24___10.383___$16.60
2003-02-15___23.87___12.806___$21.25
2003-03-02___21.04___10.263___$18.46
2003-03-03___26.00___10.144___$18.25
2003-03-15___22.10___8.02_____$15.23
2003-03-30___21.38___15.107___$28.69
2003-04-05___27.70___5.15_____$9.26
2003-04-10___22.18___15.28____$26.72
2003-04-12___30.42___3.474____$6.11
2003-04-14___19.39___11.4_____$18.46
2003-04-16___30.13___3.7______$6.52
2003-05-03___21.88___15.7_____$24.46
2003-05-25___29.35___14.668___$22.87
2003-05-25___18.81___14.03____$21.03
2003-07-02___20.63___7.24_____$10.85
2003-07-10___29.65___5.321____$7.98
_____________24.26 avg


Date_________mpg____gallons___COST
2004-03-02___26.18___15.3_____$27.66
2004-04-03___21.57___16.034___$29.81
2004-04-23___25.61___15.87____$31.73
2004-04-25___21.18___5.96_____N/A
2004-04-26___26.90___4.103____$8.20
2004-05-16___24.28___11.272___n/a
2004-06-02___22.60___15.829___$32.59
2004-06-26___24.04___14.606___$27.88
____________24.045 avg


Date_________mpg____gallons___COST
2005-04-11___23.15___11.622___$28.46
2005-06-17___23.45___10.02____n/a
2005-10-25___22.30___15.535___$48.14
2005-10-29___24.80___14.212___$42.62
2005-11-23___25.00___15.25____n/a
2005-10-30___23.50___15.506___$44.95
2005-12-21___20.60___17.529___$45.56
_____________23.25 avg


Date_________mpg____gallons___COST
2006-03-03___22.79___11.568___$31.22
2006-03-18___22.50___12.807___$34.57
2006-03-19___26.60___4.56_____$12.33
2006-03-24___22.70___13.02____$35.66
2006-05-16___22.70___14.47____$44.26
2006-08-04___19.80___16.264___$48.45
2006-09-06___18.62___16.922___$50.77
2006-09-22___21.30___16.566___$44.71
2006-11-01___24.30___13.355___n/a
2006-11-12___19.63___15.443___N/A
2006-12-26___24.40___14.738___$40.49
_____________22.30 avg


Date_________mpg____gallons___COST
2007-01-15___22.44___15.38___$41.82
2007-02-05___22.12___14.35___$38.20
2007-02-17___22.96___9.361___$24.89
2007-02-23___23.00___7.568___$23.13
2007-07-01___28.11___9.748___$28.65
2007-07-20___20.07___15.03___$45.07
2007-08-01___22.20___16.10___$48.30
2007-08-17___20.99___16.06___$46.09
2007-09-07___23.50___13.65___$40.63
2007-09-07___18.60___13.65___$39.81
2007-09-11___29.25___5.845___$17.41
2007-09-25___20.95___14.69___$44.96
2007-10-04___18.28___10.49___$31.46
2007-09-26___22.70___14.04___$52.01
2007-09-28___19.20___11.41___$45.17
_____________22.29 avg


Date_________mpg____gallons___COST
2008-10-11___22.38___9.708___$39.02
2008-10-13___19.36___13.24___$45.02
2008-11-01___21.96___15.60___$44.92
2008-11-22___22.47___14.86___$37.14
_____________21.54 avg


Date_________mpg____gallons___COST
2009-01-12___24.00___15.54___$37.28
2009-02-09___21.60___17.26___$37.95
2009-02-20___25.94___9.275___$20.40
2009-02-26___21.11___15.73___$33.03
2009-03-23___25.85___11.01___$31.10
2009-03-23___21.65___15.48___n/a
2009-03-24___23.62___14.42___n/a
2009-03-24___22.60___14.37___$31.17
2009-05-15___24.14___9.817___$21.59
2009-05-18___19.93___6.942___$15.27
2009-06-10___21.66___13.22___$33.04
2009-07-09___18.91___12.88___$31.16
2009-07-09___21.94___14.09___$36.06
2009-08-12___20.04___14.71___n/a
2009-09-05___21.90___13.61___$36.21
2009-09-22___20.78___13.97___$35.09
2009-10-13___18.40___14.57___$38.03
2009-11-01___24.32___11.71___$33.14
2009-11-21___21.96___14.43___$43.00
2009-12-18___20.78___15.73___$45.61
_____________22.061 avg
__________________

This is US Gallon right? (makes a difference for us using Imperial Gallons)

This is US Gallon right? (makes a difference for us using Imperial Gallons)
Yes, U.S. gallons.

I just picked up a 2003 Ram 2500 5.9L CTD 4x4 QuadCab with a 6spd and a camper.

Coming thru southern oregon and norcal (read: mountains) I averaged 25.8 mpg on the overhead and hand-calc'ed pretty darn close with 25 even. This was at 70 mph on cruise.

It's comfy too...

I have a 92 dodge 4x4 with 5.9 cummins getrag 5 speed 3.54 gears and 235/85/16s i never get below 20 mpg unless towing a rig on the car trailer then its 15 at worst i have the pump tweaked a bit and straight exhaust and a k&n thats it the old man i bought it from gave me his booklet on the truck and he had gotten as good as 24.5 on the freeway and that was with a muffler stock air filter and stock pump

i don't know the mileage on mine, it seems to vary and i don't bother keeping track. i have a trailer that matches the truck for camping or other needs. now while i do like my truck it is very much a jack of all trades, master of some. it weighs in at a little over 1200# with the trailer empty which means the truck alone loaded for everyday work is probably right around 10,000#. also it probably loses more power than most in the transmission having to spin big gears and twin counter shafts but with the .62 top gear and 4.10s it cruises at 75 spinning around 1900rpm.

comfort on the other hand is minimal though i am working on it. hearing protection is required and conversation is difficult at best, i have to go slow due the tire size and stockish leaf springs. once parked it's not so bad with the trailer, before i had so much gear in the bed i would just put a canvas over the bed and didn't need the trailer. now i'm thinking i may buy an e350 van off my mechanic and i already have another d60 and divorced 205. i think that would make a better, more comfortable platform for off road and still be a backup daily driver or tow rig. i also have most of a cummins sitting around and a tranny but that would be down the road.
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v1976/68/70/660066523/n660066523_1304980_7270.jpg
before the junk in the trunk
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs486.ash1/26589_316594566523_660066523_3501806_3252126_n.jpg
now

20,000 mile expedition.
Johnny has $15,000 invested in a gas engine rig that gets only 10 mpg :eek:on the trip.
Bobby has spent $18,500 on his diesel vehicle but it is twice as fuel efficient, 20 mpg.:smokin:
for the 20,000 mile journey
Johnny spends ....
2,000 gals of gas @ $4.00 a gal. = $8,000 + vehicle= $23,000
Bobby's diesel on the other hand only needs.....
1,000 gals of diesel @ $4.50 a gal. = $4,500 + vehicle= $23,000


I'll drive my old 12 mpg gas engine Willys anywhere in N. America
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b89/willysworker/Super%20Delivery/trailer.jpg

20,000 mile expedition.
Johnny has $15,000 invested in a gas engine rig that gets only 10 mpg :eek:on the trip.
Bobby has spent $18,500 on his diesel vehicle but it is twice as fuel efficient, 20 mpg.:smokin:
for the 20,000 mile journey
Johnny spends ....
2,000 gals of gas @ $4.00 a gal. = $8,000 + vehicle= $23,000
Bobby's diesel on the other hand only needs.....
1,000 gals of diesel @ $4.50 a gal. = $4,500 + vehicle= $23,000


I'll drive my old 12 mpg gas engine Willys anywhere in N. America
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b89/willysworker/Super%20Delivery/trailer.jpg


so then every mile after that is money in the bank?

Here's my loose change on Cummins swaps: If a 6 will fit, and the chassis is at least 3/4 ton (whether by design or by subsequent mods), then run the 6. Otherwise, run the 4. The heavier the vehicle, the more you should lean towards the 6. Up to a certain vehicle weight, the 4 will get a bit better fuel economy, especially at low speeds. As the vehicle gets heavier, the difference becomes less.

Burbs are large, relatively heavy vehicles. Yes, a 4BT will pull them around just fine, and if it is a 1/2 ton burb then the 4BT is a better choice. However, knowing the weakness of the 1/2 ton frames, I would pick a 3/4 ton burb, and then the 6BT or the later ISB5.9 becomes a better choice.

PRo's and cons of the 4 vs the 6: 4BT/ISB3.9/4.5 series will usually give a bit better fuel economy (dont expect a big difference in the same chassis though - both engines are quite efficient), weighs less, and obviously is shorter making it a realistic fit in smaller engine bays. The bad is that they don't have the power potential of their bigger brother, they aren't as smooth running, and they are less common on the used market and tend to cost more. Also, unless I am mistaken, most if not all of the ISB 4's (the newer, electronically controlled engines) are rear gear train engines which have serious fitment issues in many chassis (to the point where it is often as easy to fit a front gear train 6) The 6BT/ISB5.9/6.7 will use a tad more fuel, weighs 250-350lbs more (depending on how it is accessorized), and is pretty long. On the plus side, they have more power, they can make more power, they are smoother running, good used runners can be found everywhere for less than what a 4 costs, and aftermarket support is great. All ISB 6 Cummins in Dodge chassis are front gear train AFAIK, so there is less fitment issues with the newer engines (all B series engines are front gear train).

My Blazer was a 1/2 ton chassis. When it came time to do a Cummins swap, I decided on a 6BT since they are more plentiful, less expensive, and have more potential. I knew that my 1/2 ton frame was not up to the task, so I removed the entire front section and grafted a 1 ton frame in its place. This is the kind of thing a person will need to consider before doing a Cummins swap. i can tell you it was worth it though - my truck weighs around 6300lbs, and routinely knocks down 20+MPG. This is amazing for a heavy, lifted truck rolling on 37's with no aerodynamics to speak of. For comparison, when it still had the TBI 350 gas engine and weighed 500lbs less, it only got 10-11MPG. In theory, diesels are only 30-40% more efficient than gas engines, but it seems in practice the fact that they dont seem to need to work nearly as hard as the gas engine to move the vehicle seems to make the real gains much larger. Thats just my theory - as usual, YMMV, Void Where Prohibited, etc.

My other loose change on comfort is this: As a rule, newer vehicles are comfortable already. However, older vehicles often are not. That doesn't mean they cant be made comfortable though. Even with solid axles and leaf springs you can make a rig have a pretty cushy ride. Taking my own rig as an example, the current springs are 48" leaves on the front and 52's on the rear. Generally, longer leaves have a lower rate, and a lower rate=cushier ride. I am going to swap 63" springs from a later model Chevy truck onto the rear, and put my rear 52" springs up front. This is a common swap on older Blazers, and is normally done to increase suspension travel and flex. As a side benefit, it makes the ride much smoother. Obviously, proper shock valving will be needed, as will traction bars to combat axle wrap, panhard rods to maintain lateral stability, and a sway bar to reduce the increased body roll. So, in order to get the Cadillac ride that I want, I have to add a bunch of stuff, but it is doable. I have ridden in rigs with similar setups, and their ride both on and off road is impressive. Another plan is to swap in some new seats. Other to-do's include more sound deadening to combat acoustic fatigue, new carpet, etc. With a bit of work, an older rig can be as comfy as you are willing to make it :)

Either I missed it or it hasnt been brought up - VW Westfalia Syncro with 1.9 TDI diesel swap. They have been all over the world, comfy, good MPG and dependable. Lighter than all the FS rigs listed so it wont sink as easily in soft ground. If my family were shorter we'd have gone this route, but since my daughter is taller than my wife, and my 14yr old is now over 6'2" we needed a fulll size rig, thus the E350 7.3L PSD we are converting to 4wd and currently getting over 18mpg highway.

Jim Allen's fourwheeler project K5 (99-2000-ish) was a '83 (I think) with the 6.2 and a turbo with about 4" of lift overall, 35's on the 10 bolts with 4.10's, 700R4 and 208. He was clocking 18 on the highway (70-75). When we put the Doubler in it, the milage dropped into the mid 16's. Maybe there was a reason the OE's went to chain drive planet boxes.g

I skimmed this thread first time around, and now I stopped to actually read it. good thing, because this confirmed something I suspected - adding a pair of all gear cases churning oil constantly would rob power and mileage. i was going to do a 203-205, but I have since decided to keep my chain drive 241. Since Im not going to be hardcore crawling and my truck sees a LOT of highway miles, I think this is probably a better choice.

20,000 mile expedition.
Johnny has $15,000 invested in a gas engine rig that gets only 10 mpg :eek:on the trip.
Bobby has spent $18,500 on his diesel vehicle but it is twice as fuel efficient, 20 mpg.:smokin:
for the 20,000 mile journey
Johnny spends ....
2,000 gals of gas @ $4.00 a gal. = $8,000 + vehicle= $23,000
Bobby's diesel on the other hand only needs.....
1,000 gals of diesel @ $4.50 a gal. = $4,500 + vehicle= $23,000


I'll drive my old 12 mpg gas engine Willys anywhere in N. America


well gas is easier to find and if you run out it's more likely that someone will have some on hand. on the other hand it is nice to have the range and diesels will run on oil in a pinch, or even on a regular basis. also with diesel you can get fuel injection that only takes one wire.

Diesel is actually easy to locate in a pinch if you think about it. I know when I am out hunting in the forest I always run across heavy equipment used by the forest service, and the rangers I run into are all friendly people who Im sure would loan me some. Then there is the fact that all trucking uses diesel, as do trains. Even the smallest airfield keeps Jet A on hand, which can be run in virtually any diesel. Then there is the wide availability of heating oil in places with colder climates, which is virtually identical to diesel fuel. By comparison, the only thing that will run a gasoline engine is gasoline. So, when you think about alternative emergency fuel sources, I think diesels have the edge.

then johnny learned about using waste vegatable oil as fuel, saved lots of money and lived happily ever after.

i'd rather have the torque of a diesel. to haul my extra gear. i can appreciate using a light gas powered rig for local trips though.

then johnny learned about using waste vegatable oil as fuel, saved lots of money and lived happily ever after.

Right up until Johnny's engine died due to the incomplete combustion of veggie oil coking up the rings and scoring the cylinder walls, coking up the valves, diluting the oil, and destroying the IP. Then he realized his savings were an illusion when he had to replace his engine :shaking:

Trying to incorporate a fuel filtration & heating setup (http://www.steelsoldiers.com/alternative-fuels/52209-ultimate-onboard-fuel-filtration-processing-setup.html) on Mah Deuce that will allow me to take full advantage of the multi-fuel.

Diesel is actually easy to locate in a pinch if you think about it. I know when I am out hunting in the forest I always run across heavy equipment used by the forest service, and the rangers I run into are all friendly people who Im sure would loan me some. Then there is the fact that all trucking uses diesel, as do trains. Even the smallest airfield keeps Jet A on hand, which can be run in virtually any diesel. Then there is the wide availability of heating oil in places with colder climates, which is virtually identical to diesel fuel. By comparison, the only thing that will run a gasoline engine is gasoline. So, when you think about alternative emergency fuel sources, I think diesels have the edge.

all that is true, but there have been times when i'm running on fumes and every fuel station i went to was gas only. i think that's just murphys law though since if you have fuel most stations have diesel. also in the desert you don't come across too much heavy equipment so you would have to rely on running into another 4 wheeler. then again if you don't have the fuel to make it back you probably shouldn't be out there.

...then again if you don't have the fuel to make it back you probably shouldn't be out there.
Bingo. Kind of like swimming in the ocean, you gotta turn back before you're 'halfway tired'. We deal with this a lot when we're backpacking off our dirtbikes. With only 150-250 mile range, so we just have to plan our routes accordingly. Still, we're able to travel off-road for days at a time, and I wish we could go further between fuel stops, but carrying too much fuel starts to affect the handling/performance of our bikes to the point that they're less fun to ride. Not quite the same with trucks, but there's still only so much space available. Would you rather carry more fuel, or water, or batteries, or...

I'm set-up to carry 50 gallons of diesel, 50 gallons of 'whatever' and 50 gallons of gasoline (for my generators and dirtbikes, and I can also burn it in my multifuel engine in Mah Deuce). With an average of 7-10mpg, that should gives me a pretty decent range.

hmm, i had never heard of wvo doing that before. i take it you have had experience with this maxpf? same problems with biodiesel? which would seem to be another cheap alternative.

i guess i figured if you got the wvo hot enough and filtered it correctly it would eliminate alot of the common problems with running wvo.

took some time and did some research on the subject. found a good article that is very detailed about the risks in running wvo.

the cliffnotes. it sounds like from this article and others on the interweb, that the problems with coking, incomplete combustion, injection pump failure are avoidable with a properly set up wvo system, only using the wvo when the motor is fully warmed up, and fully purging the wvo from the fuel lines before shut down. good dry filtration of the wvo before it is put into the tank as well as in the fuel line is vital as well. the oil dilution is somewhat unavoidable, however not detrimental, can be monitored with sampling to determine how often the oil should be changed. i don't think this is a deal breaker.

seems to be a good well thought out article.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=269973

Is the risk worth the money? IMO it isn't - there is good evidence that even with a "properly set up" system, it will damage the engine over time.

Biodiesel is fine, and is completely different from the veggie oil it starts out as.

Ive got a 95 Bronco, 4bt zf5 on 33s.
Very comnfortable and manuverable (out turns my buddys stock neon).
Gets 20-25mpg on highway from 75-60 mph.
Cant fit tons of stuff in them like a pickup but its not too bad on storage.
Also has a nice size tank from the factory giving you a great range

While my 1985 Mitsubishi turbo diesel pickup is highly modified, it gets incredible fuel mileage at 42mpg Hwy and 32mpg city. Loaded down with all my gear, Backie Rack and Mombossa RTT it will still see 40mpg on the open road thanks to Mitsubishi 2.3L turbo diesel engine. The engine has been tuned for fuel efficiency but it still make a respectable 120hp and 200ft lbs of torque at 15psi of boost. While it has all the goodies like lockers, 5.0 Atlas transfercase, and coilover suspension, this is an expedition rig.

Over the years I have driven a lot of rigs and this is the most enjoyable of the bunch. While I still need to finish the fiberglass fenders and paint it, the truck runs like a champ.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4015/4685921387_00a2cfcc76_b.jpg

all that is true, but there have been times when i'm running on fumes and every fuel station i went to was gas only.

So run in buy a few quarts of the cheap ass motor oil and dump it in the tank. Bam an extra gallon or so range. Or stop at the supermarket and get some cooking oil. See it is easy if you have a diesel when ya get in a pinch.

maxpf - my point with my initial post, was to show that although diesel fuel is expensive, there are cheaper alternatives to use in your diesel engine. biodiesel being one of them. this makes the diesel is to expensive and thus the diesel motor is not worth it argument null and void. i like that you pointed out the various types of fuel that can be used in a diesel.

ps. when are we going to start hearing about some of your explorations in your 6bt blazer?!


anywho my personal opinion is that wvo can be run safely and effectively for long trips. but is not worth it for short hauls around town. just my opinion as a "newb" from what i have researched.

I have been running WVO in my F250 Powerstroke for a while with no issues. My buddy has been doing it in his for a lot longer. I think he has 80,000 miles on WVO and Bio. Yes, he runs Bio and WVO on the same vehicle. The Bio actually cleans up the WVO nicely.

Anyhow, the Powerstroke is a great motor to run on WVO due to the fuel lines actually being in the heads. This nearly guarantees that the motor will always get well heated oil before it injects it. Also, the lack of an IP is another benefit.

I carry 90 gallons of oil in my bed, and combine that with a full tank of diesel (and I have the little diesel tank) and I have about a 2,000 mile fuel range on the highway. I really like that aspect.

The only issue I have had is in winter weather my pre-filter may get too cold for my pump to push the oil. In that situation, my diesel system automatically takes over.

I was buying my oil from my buddy for a while at $1/gallon, but he was having a hard time sourcing oil for his own needs, so I started buying from a professional operation that settled, filtered and centerfuged the oil. This was very clean oil! Cost is about $1.75 gallon with free delivery. (Gets cheaper if you buy more.)

Best part was the smell, the oil I was burning tended to be from asian restaurants. The smell was great!

I don't really use the truck anymore and will probably be selling it after KOH.

-Wayne

I still want a diesel land rover discovery, i love my v-8 disco, very comfortable and a lot of interior space, and they are cheap. It would be a beast to figure out how to import one with a 300tdi or a TD5, but when you look at spending the time and $ involved in converting something else, I'm pretty sure you could figure out how to import one and come out ahead.

I just got 14.1 and 14.8 mpg on my recent honeymoon/road trip out of this rig. If you figure the 5 gallons of filtered, de-watered WVO I blended into each tank that put me at about 19 mpg. I am working on a heated 2 tank system but don't have a problem blending a bit at each fill up in the mean time.

I just got 14.1 and 14.8 mpg on my recent honeymoon/road trip out of this rig. If you figure the 5 gallons of filtered, de-watered WVO I blended into each tank that put me at about 19 mpg. I am working on a heated 2 tank system but don't have a problem blending a bit at each fill up in the mean time.

How do you like that Jayco popup? Been thinking of doing something similar for my F250 that has a full veggie conversion.

My last trip up to Oregon I saw a high of 19.9 MPG going up the highway. Funny thing was I was not trying for good fuel economy at the time, and was in the mountains, yet it was the best MPG of the trip.

I have been thinking of selling my F250 and Samurai, but everything I look at replacing them with sucks more fuel.

How do you like that Jayco popup? Been thinking of doing something similar for my F250 that has a full veggie conversion.

My last trip up to Oregon I saw a high of 19.9 MPG going up the highway. Funny thing was I was not trying for good fuel economy at the time, and was in the mountains, yet it was the best MPG of the trip.

I have been thinking of selling my F250 and Samurai, but everything I look at replacing them with sucks more fuel.

I like the Jayco, but don't use it nearly as much as I should. I have a topper that I usually throw on if I am not with my girl. I need to use it a bit more in the cold weather and see how it does. I have friends that have hard side campers that use them to go skiing and hot springing all winter long.
If your truck is converted for veggie I don't know why you would sell it. I can't wait to finish my 2 tank system, just need time and some $. I built my home filtration set up this spring and am working on an aluminum tank to go where my spare tire is. I am down to my Dodge or my 1 Ton Taco on 42's for daily driving but am piling parts up for a 1988 4runner DD project to keep some miles off the big trucks. I'd keep your junk and get a beater DD.

I guess it comes down to whats alot of room, fuel, and what do you mean by moderate off road abilty.

I can tell you that a Excursion with a 7.3 or better yet a P-pump 5.9 Cummins behind a Allison 1000 6 speed will get you every thing you could ever want as far as power MPG Storage room comfort. Add a 4-6" lift BW cut out flares and some 38-40 tires would get you very close to what you have listed. With the OD and gearing as the diesel need very little to turn big meat comapred to gassers you could be very close to 20 mpg. Mine right now gets 19 -20 average and I live in the mountains and hills. It has a 45 gal tank and they offer a 40 gal aux that goes on the side saddle where PU normally carry them as it has the same wheel base a F250 single cab long bed That would give you a touring range of well over 1000 miles. Throw in the 6BT and with proper tuning you will almost assuredly get over 20 mpg highway if not average with a light foot.

Judging by some of the vehicles mentioned I am thinking this might be more room and comfort ( general size)than you meant by your description. If so please disregard.

I like the Jayco, but don't use it nearly as much as I should. I have a topper that I usually throw on if I am not with my girl. I need to use it a bit more in the cold weather and see how it does. I have friends that have hard side campers that use them to go skiing and hot springing all winter long.
If your truck is converted for veggie I don't know why you would sell it. I can't wait to finish my 2 tank system, just need time and some $. I built my home filtration set up this spring and am working on an aluminum tank to go where my spare tire is. I am down to my Dodge or my 1 Ton Taco on 42's for daily driving but am piling parts up for a 1988 4runner DD project to keep some miles off the big trucks. I'd keep your junk and get a beater DD.

Yeah, I have a little Ford Focus for DD duty. I think the Samurai gets about the same fuel economy though. Both are fun to drive, but totally different experiences.

On your dual fuel set up, invest in a good fuel pump. The Ford setup needs higher pressure then yours, and I decided to save a couple of bucks and used a Raptor pump (about $500) and it just doesn't do the job in cooler climates. It would probably be fine if I had better heat in my system. I have heater hose wrapped to my fuel lines, flat plate exchanger, hose around my filter and heated tank pickup, and I still have a lack of heat. Now that I have a shell on the bed, the 90 gallon tank in the bed does keep nice and warm on a long drive. Anyhow, if I'm going to keep the truck I will upgrade the heat via hose in hose fuel lines and maybe an electric blanket for the filter. That should do the trick. I think the biggest issue I have is keeping that filter warm.

I have had no issues other then keeping the oil pumped to a high enough pressure for the engine to actually burn the stuff. (My system automatically reverts to diesel if there is a lack of veggie pressure.)

With full tanks I have 1500 plus mile range. Wish my bladder did too! LOL

Veggie oil is interesting, messy, and smells much better then diesel fumes. I do like my truck, I just need it to make sense to me again. I have sold my trailer and buggy, so I have less need for the truck these days.

-Wayne

I guess it comes down to whats alot of room, fuel, and what do you mean by moderate off road abilty.

I can tell you that a Excursion with a 7.3 or better yet a P-pump 5.9 Cummins behind a Allison 1000 6 speed will get you every thing you could ever want as far as power MPG Storage room comfort. Add a 4-6" lift BW cut out flares and some 38-40 tires would get you very close to what you have listed. With the OD and gearing as the diesel need very little to turn big meat comapred to gassers you could be very close to 20 mpg. Mine right now gets 19 -20 average and I live in the mountains and hills. It has a 45 gal tank and they offer a 40 gal aux that goes on the side saddle where PU normally carry them as it has the same wheel base a F250 single cab long bed That would give you a touring range of well over 1000 miles. Throw in the 6BT and with proper tuning you will almost assuredly get over 20 mpg highway if not average with a light foot.

Judging by some of the vehicles mentioned I am thinking this might be more room and comfort ( general size)than you meant by your description. If so please disregard.

Well, I have an F250, 2 wheel drive, stock tire size and a shell. I tend to drive it just at 2000 RPM and lightly loaded, this is about as good as you can get for highway mileage on the 7.3. I have yet to record 20 MPG on it for a full tank. Sure, maybe short hauls it can beat 20, but not for a full tank range (about 400 miles on the stock tank). The only fuel mod I have left would be a reprogram, and I'm told that might get 1 or 2 MPG on highway. The 4WD trucks do worse, and the lifted trucks do much worse. Not sure how or where people get these great claims of 20 MPG on a 4WD lifted truck loaded down with gear. Just my 2 cents.

-Wayne

The first gen 4bt is a excellent choice. Why you might ask?

-Extremely simple: 1 wire to fuel solenoid, 1 wire to starter, 1 wire to alternator and she runs (you can also run for about 8-9 days with no alternator, found out the hard way)
-Most parts from the first gen 6bt are interchangeable

-330ish ft/lbs torque stock (the aftercooled version)

-Awesome mileage I pulled around 19mpg in my stepvan with 18ft of cargo space. I pulled around 25mpg in my 1990 bronco with 36s and 3.55 gears

-Runs cool, I ran with no fans for months with no issues. As long as you keep moving you are good.

-Only around 200 pounds more than a v8

-Easy to mod because most of the 6bt parts work

Downsides:

-Its a tall motor so smaller trucks might not be able to fit it height wise

-Low power makes it less ideal for bigger rigs

-The vibrations. Shakes like hell at idle but anything above 800ish rpm smooths it right out

-Goodluck finding anything useful at Autozone

-No vacuum system. Great excuse for a hydroboost swap though.

Overall I would do the swap again. Im going to tune mine up to around maybe 160hp and 400+ ft/lbs of torque. With my bronco, zf5, 4.88 gears, and 40s i should be running 20+ mpg.

Edit: My bronco is nice and comfy, with a new bracket and possible pulley change you can bolt up your stock a/c compressor.

Diesel Land Rover Discovery.

/Thread

Yeah, the only problem is getting one here, but it's doable. Nothing is more comfortable AND capable and a Discovery 2. I can put 10 hours driving in one day and still be good to keep going.

If you go with a smaller vehicle, and are open to motor swaps...the VW 1.6TD or 1.9TD would be good options. You could even go TDi if you really wanted to be cool.

Great engines, capable of amazing mileage and pretty decent power. I swapped a 1.6TD into a Samurai (not that I'd suggest a Sami for Expo) and I was getting 32 mpg on a motor that needed a rebuild.

One thing I think we should keep in mind in this thread is the weight of the vehicle. As you aren't really going to live even somewhat comfortably out of a samurai, jeep..etc

Also a stock 1.9L diesel motor is not going to push around a 5k truck in the wilderness without putting the motor through a workout every time the terrain gets difficult.

I personally think that you will not get a production vehicle capable of what the OP asks. If the motor was swapped into another vehicle maybe.

It's totally possible to achieve what he asks. The 2.5L diesels that come in the Land Rovers in Europe return 25-30mpg, and they're reliable as an anvil. No problem off-road.

Yeah, a 1.9L VW TDI is a bit small. But a 2.5L TDI is perfect.

Since I plan to stick to North America:

http://www.wanderthewest.com/forum/uploads/1312903519/gallery_2579_131_16084.jpg

2002 Chevy Duramax - 8' Four Wheel Popup Camper - Fullsize bed, running water, fridge, heater, stove, couch and plenty of storage. I can toss 20 gallons of extra fuel on the hitch rack, a ton of extra supplies on the top rack and be good to go for weeks. And it isn't so ungodly big and heavy that I am afraid to take it offroad.

Hauling butt, I average 17 mpg (hand calculated over multiple trips). Driving reasonably I can get closer to 19 mpg. Without the camper 20...

Did anyone mention an xj? Assuming you shouldnt be running taller than 31s for a expo rig you should be able to get 20mpg on stock gears and an auto. My 87 is the one of the most comfortable rigs personally and im 6' 3". Also Land rover discoveries are nice, not sure on mpg though.

Not sure how this will do on fuel (isn't running yet), but this build of my friend's should get you anywhere you want to go. He also has a hot plate, griddle, and hot water integrated into the toolbox inside the tailgate.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=740041&highlight=6bt+durango

Well, I have an F250, 2 wheel drive, stock tire size and a shell. I tend to drive it just at 2000 RPM and lightly loaded, this is about as good as you can get for highway mileage on the 7.3. I have yet to record 20 MPG on it for a full tank. Sure, maybe short hauls it can beat 20, but not for a full tank range (about 400 miles on the stock tank). The only fuel mod I have left would be a reprogram, and I'm told that might get 1 or 2 MPG on highway. The 4WD trucks do worse, and the lifted trucks do much worse. Not sure how or where people get these great claims of 20 MPG on a 4WD lifted truck loaded down with gear. Just my 2 cents.

-Wayne

this is more of a response to rotos inquiry of 20 mpg psd capacity...then the thread itself, but the second vehicle is on topic.

recently i went back to using my 95 psd e350 with the ladder racks removed for some long hauls as i needed to camp at the jobsites...and my steering gear failed on my ranger when i got back from the stampede as i was headed out to work... the ol van returns 22-23 mpg with cruise set at 65 mph. its 7 k empty...still for sure gets 23 mpg at 7800 plus. the longer you drive it on cruise control the better it gets. goes from flat-rock mi to Birmingham alabama on 1 tank....all stock save for the 235/85 tires.

back when i was contracting/working out of it, 19-21 was easy to do for cruise...gets 16 town when i dont idle it with ac/heater running.

our 05 6.0 pick up couldnt get 18 plus in any situation..for the most part i never seen a psd ford pickup get better then 20 consistently with me at the helm. but the 6.0 was much more powerful and funner to drive too.

this ol e350 psd could die at any time due to its age and miles, but my last few trips to work netted 4800 miles in 3 weeks, and i sure am glad i pulled the racks off of it for the extra mpg. i was surprised it made such a difference and cant complain.



my ford ranger has a 6.5 na diesel in it that is also aged beyond its useful life. it needs injectors pretty bad so i run regular diesel in it mainly now. at one point i run 100% used trans fluid in it for extended periods....180 k ago at 50-55 mph it could pull 24 on real diesel..the 1 ton van it was robbed from regularly returned that on the hiway and sometimes a bit better...

....its bogged down to 16-19 now running 37 in military tires with 410 gears and 4l80 running into a ford 208 case...it gets that mileage from 60-75 mph....which was the reason for the 37 in tires, it was the cheapest easiest way to raise my top speed for long hauls... i cant drive 55...i can tolerate 65 with cruise control, but on a freeway i fall asleep quickly in good weather at 55 mph...

i would like some 323 or 308 gears with 33's for the ability to comfortable cruise 75 mph.....comfortable for the engine anyway. i think a Conestoga wagon is more comfortable then my ranger for long trips.

still over the small block my ranger is much much cheaper to drive with the diesel....the van is ridiculously cheaper then the gassers it replaced.

before my 6.5 injectors got too bad, i run a mixture of fuel in the ranger that brought my costs for fuel to that rivaling the escort. a good thing too as the escort wont get through 5 foot snowdrifts in the winter.


the 6.5 n/a surprised me. its something to consider for a medium weight expo rig, as its easy to work with and install in about anything with a straight axle front and cost effective to get parts for... and with an all mechanical type like mine, its pleasantly stupid reliable.

i would run one in a waggy or even a xj or small 4x4 van thing---old 110 is something worth thinking about....in a burb it will need a turbo at the least though. stock ol 6.2 burbs were pulling 20 plus mpg at 60-65 in any case. real easy to install in fsb and 150's as well when using a 241 driver drop..

easy powertrain to work with.

this is the only bit of detail online with my ranger
http://www.therangerstation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35931

here is a b2
6.2l bronco at rocks and valleys end of rock wall - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbG7c3Fl06o&feature=related)

6.2 bronco 2 build walk around by john and jonathan chirco - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBwsKh2MlWQ&feature=related)

I did not read the whole thread, but I get 20.2 on highway in my M1009 on 37s w/ the 6.2DD, and about 16.5mpg for a whole weekend of highway/offroad mix. Swapping in a 6BT, so IDK what that will be.

92 Burb Body, 12 valve Cummins, p-pump, 300hp ATS injectors, ATS 5-Star 47RE, 19MPG in town, 19-21 Hwy. close to a 500 mile range, Catalytic propane heat for camping, on board air,welder. 37's w/ 3:73 gears. 8050 lbs empty

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/11035_100425253314772_100000418926162_9433_1058380 _n.jpg
Baja
http://bcfabrication.com/wp-content/gallery/big-yellow-burb/100_5681.jpg

lucky enough to purchase from Drew B. @ BC Fabrication (formerly Avalanche Eng.)

i run 37's on my 4dr jk and can point it at just about anything i want and go over it. and i still get 18 mpg goin 65