With all the info that is available today, what is keeping people building leafspring or even wristed radius arm trail rigs?

I was having this conversation with a friend today, and it seemed that aside from cost; a coilover four linked trail rig is the only way to go.

Is this a Ford specific tech thread? Not really. But I'm curious what all the other blue oval fans have to say about this...technology really has come a LONG ass ways in the last ten years.

in my opinion leaf springs give great flex if setup right, the down side is they also give axle wrap which can be damaging to other parts.

As for wristed arms, the work till something on the other side breaks. they give awesome flex, but your risking spinning a axle tube in the diff or bending the non wristed arm causing big issues.

4 links are the in thing. They have awesome flex, offer great control of wheel hop / axle wrap if set up correctly. Down side, they can be pricey if using big parts to take the abuse.

My reasoning is simple, cheap, easy and bolt in... I don't own a garage, or even a place to store a welder or such, I'd love to link my wheeling pig, but, I lack the facility to do so.

Cost and the learning curve, cause if you're going to do it properly it takes some heefty parts to make a linked setup on a fullsize hold together, that and a minimum of probably 500-600 bucks a corner for a good (new like FOA's, or any good used fox/saw/king etc) coilover, as not many airshocks will hold the weight of a fullsize, granted you can cut cost and go with coils and shocks, but then again that won't put you much further ahead then a good quality setup leaf sprung system, as thats as much of the gain as the links themselves.

Personally i'm going with a front and rear radius arm setup and after seeing the cayon build done by the evo boys i was sold, spring wise if i can get the weight down i'll go with some airshocks (2.5" can't remember the brand though but have a 1200 pound weight rating) or FOA's and combo of the big evo hiems and bushings.

I'm planning my first non truck based build, and am looking at a coil and leaf setup very similar to a Ford radius arm setup, or radius arms front and rear with coils. For me, it comes down to the cost factor. Just look at the price of heavy wall DOM or even HREW that is needed to take the abuse of a 4 link, then the joints that are "needed" to take the abuse, then the coil overs themselves and it all adds up in a hurry.

I can do top quality leaves for $150 per corner or do radius arms with coils for roughly the same price.

If not out to build a comp buggy, just a capable pleasure buggy, leaves or leaves and coils will do everything I want them to.

Justin

I love the leafs... but I have never wheeled a linked rig.. My leafs are cheap, easy to fix, easy to set up and easy to change as needed. But who knows!

Here's the things that I believe keep the average joes building leaf sprung and radius arm rigs:

1. Cost
2. Complexity - a lot of average guys don't necessarily want to take the time to learn the necessary skills and information it takes to build a good linked rig
3. Lack of proper fabrication tools and/or a place to do that involved of a build
4. Lack of proper fabrication skills

The main reason my Bronco II is leaf sprung instead of linked is because I know that this machine isn't a hardcore wheeler, and never will be. If I was to build something like that, I'd start with a pile of tube and build a linked buggy. The other reason is because I just can't justify spending that much money on a 4x4 truck build that will only get used a couple times a year since it takes me ~8 hours to get to some decent rocks.

i have built and wheeled a few leaf sprung and linked rigs -
leaf springs have there place, like a low buck build up - or if you are going to build in stages. i have built a few cj5s with wrangler springs and watched them do very well. but as mentioned above they had some "hop" and to get a traction bar to work well on some rigs you might as well link it -

but the factory radius arm worked very well - thats why my truggy is getting a radius / " wristed "arm style front end - and with 44s and a bb i didnt want any axle wrap in the rear so a simple 3 link will work well.

but if i was going to wheel it sooner ( aka a fast build, but i have time lots of time ) the rear would have stayed leafs - simple and effective

I have linked several of my off road toys, I don't think there are any better performing alternatives for an off road toy. However, I would think more than twice about it if it were something I were building even for limited street usage. #1 reason is liability, and #2 is what works awesome on the trail is not normally 100% stellar on the street.

I chose to stay leaf sprung on my F350 chassis that is under my Bronco. The Bronco will be a Daily driver, and see Tow duty, family camping trips, and some light trail wheeling. I decided the wise course was to keep the factory designed and tested suspension. Maybe someday I will convert it to linked coil over, but realistically, it is going to do everything I want it to do with the factory leaf sprung suspension, and probably do most of it better than even a well designed home brew link suspension. The piece of mind while your family is on board and your toy is in tow is worth a lot.

The other reason for leafs, because my buggy bores me a little with most of the wheeling around here. It will literally idle over most anything. Some people want the O/S suspension, just for the fact that there is more challenge in wheeling with it. Even in the places where you guys have much more difficult terrain than we have here. You could easily bring back the "fun factor" on those trails you now consider simple. It is appealing :D

Later,
Jason

Cost and simplicity. I wheel in a lot of areas that are a hundred or more miles from a decent town. With a leaf, I can weld it if it breaks, I can chain it together, or just limp it home. I don't desert race and I don't rock crawl with big tires and hp, so the leaf's work for me. I manage to get most places I want to go and my whole rig cost less than some of the suspensions I see on here. Maybe I don't get there as fast as the coilover guys, but then again, I drive a Ramcharger with 500lbs of tools, spares, gear, water etc. on most of my runs.

Lots of guys I know are using leafs for the same reason. The difference between leafs and custom links is a lot of $$ that can be used for gas and other toys to have fun with.

Now, if I was racing one, no question I'd run top of the line $$ suspension.

My buggy is 4-linked in back with coilovers and a version of wristed radius arms up front with coils. I surely would have to do some mod's to run exactly what I have under a streetable rig. I also have an exploder I'm going to build into a streetable trail rig hopefully in the near future and I'm torn about what suspension to do. Honestly I'm leaning towards leafs all around to keep it simple, inexpensive and very streetable.

Everyone's hitting it on the head, Pro. I ran leafs for a long-time, lifted with leaf packs, all different shackle types, etc, etc. Was many backyard builds before I ventured into the world of links. Hell, someday I might even finish one! :flipoff2: Had to beat ya to it...

It's like 'Why does everybody use the SBC in their build?" We all know they bring the suck & every T,D, & H has one...

Simple. Cheap. Easy. Sheep.

i like the linked front and leaf rear, the rear springs seem to keep the truck feeling stable.

simplicity and cost effective are the main reasons

and alot of popular axle swaps use leafs from the oem so thats one less bracket,tab or gusset to be designed and fabricated when building a rig, saving money, time and effort.

just the way i see it and i think many others do too.

sure, if i had an unlimited budget, then 4 link front and rear with 4 wheel steer portal axles and big ass coilovers would be the only option. but unfortunately it all comes down to expense.

Shit.. I just got a solid axle for my junk and now you want me to link it..? :flipoff2:

I have ran an ole Ford for years but i am currently building a Chevy S-10, i am pulling the Cage Off Road radius arms out of the Ford for the front suspension and i am 4-linking the rear. This rig will be running 2 steer Rockwells. The down fall to radius arms are you have to run a panhard bar which can sometimes interfere with your steering. You will also find the front axle will shift from side to side when being flexed due to the travel of the panhard bar. Also when coming on an obsticle the front axle acually has to travel forward past its center point as it begins to compress the suspension, some folks feel you can lose traction due to this or that it is harder to climb over the obsticle.

I understand the dilema of "no fab skills, no math skills" and a light pocket book, but here's the thing.
A linked suspension works SOOO much better than leafs/radius arms.
In the first stage, when I first linked my bronco it was with bronco coils all around but I built it so that I could upgrade to coilovers eventually. The second stage was tubing the front for coilover towers and adding coilovers. I still run bronco coils and shocks in the rear and it works great.
Once a 4-link is setup properly and with large enough material for the weight/hp/tq of the vehicle, hardly anything will break. In the 4 years that I've been linked, I've broken 1-3/4x5/8 heim and that was a drunken fluke:p

Cheap, simple, effective.

I'm a BIG believer in KISS

cheap, Simple, Effective.

I'm A Big Believer In Kiss

X2

Same here on the KISS. I wheeled the piss out of rear leafs and some form of wristed arm or housing for about 10 years on some of the harder south west trails around. I'd like to link the rear on the new F-Bronco build some day but for now I'll keep the leaf springs there.

Great thread! I'm running a wristed radius arm on my early Bronco and while you have to watch for spinning the opposite tube and bending the other arm, I'm not rock racing so had no problems, flexes good. Longer radius arms free up a front end as well for not much money and that's my next move.
On the rear leafs I'm running BC Broncos spring rockers (two plates with a stout hinge point between the axle and springs) and the flex is unbelievable for the money. Street manners are still bearable too. I think money and KISS are key for many of us and Old Skool is still Cool.

Simple. Cheap. Easy. Sheep.

:laughing:

Mainly, I thought this might be an interesting discussion, especially with some of the build ups in progress or soon to be in progress in here.

A linked suspension brings mad bling-bling factor, but part of that is all the headaches of getting one built properly.

I am undertaking building a long arm 3 link for the front of the screwball, but its been several years in the coming, and will probably take me the rest of the year to get the truck where I want it. The rear will most likely stay leaf sprung, simply following the "it ain't broke, don't fix it" rule. As was stated earlier, when set up properly, leaf springs have plenty of bang for the buck on most rigs.

Its easy to fuck up a linked setup and have something that flexes well but is a rock humper.

Its hard to fuck up a radius arm/coil or leaf setup. Pretty much weld/bolt on.

There is no doubt that links/CO's work better... but honestly ive never been stuck on a hard spot were so-an-so's linked rig made it and my radius arm rig didnt simply because of suspension design. I am still leaves in the rear simply because i bought them in '99 when i was stupid- i spent $450 on those suckers by God im gonna use them. :flipoff2:

To answer your question, i think people still stick with radius arms and leaves because they are simple and they work 95% as good as links/CO's. Assuming proper setup of course. Most of us fall into that "95% is good enough for me" catagory.

Well, I'll confess, I had a bit of an agenda with this thread :D

The debate was that with a current day build "four linked coilovers was the only way to go".

Now, I can't really argue with that, and its the direction my next build is taking...BUT...

I maintain that a properly engineered leafspring or radius arm setup will still get the job done well for 99% of the wheelers out there. Cheap, simple to set up, not allot to go wrong.

Part of the discussion sprang from the same mindset that "any cage HAS GOT to be made out of dom". Now, I''m a firm believer in using hrew, but all my earlier cages were pipe and I still think if designed correctly, they can do a fine job.

Its really about the current mindset of "this is best so its the only way" despite the fact that builds have been ticking along just fine for the last forty odd years old school.

Just curious what the rest of you thought and are currently doing. I think so far feedback supports my "old school is fine" position. Still, its always good to hear what current thought is, and what is and isn't working for the rest of you.

Carry on :smokin:

That's exactly what it is. A pipe/hrew cage is good enough for MOST people since it only has to last one flop. Leaves and radius arms are good enough for MOST people, since they're cheap, easy, and they aren't wheeling competitively with a sponsor behind them.

Yes, the latest as greatest is great IF you actually need it. Builing a linked rig just to be able to say you have one even though leaves got you everywhere you wanted to go makes about as much sense as 26" chrome rims on a 1986 Caprice.

Justin

There is a happy medium between the old school (leafs, radius arms) and the spendy and potentially tricky link setups-

One link.

They are stupid simple to do, and work just as good as a multi-link setup in my opinion if you adhere to two simple ideas. Keep the wishbone(one link) as long as possible and as flat as possible.

Well, I'll confess, I had a bit of an agenda with this thread :D

The debate was that with a current day build "four linked coilovers was the only way to go".

Now, I can't really argue with that, and its the direction my next build is taking...BUT...

I maintain that a properly engineered leafspring or radius arm setup will still get the job done well for 99% of the wheelers out there. Cheap, simple to set up, not allot to go wrong.

Part of the discussion sprang from the same mindset that "any cage HAS GOT to be made out of dom". Now, I''m a firm believer in using hrew, but all my earlier cages were pipe and I still think if designed correctly, they can do a fine job.

Its really about the current mindset of "this is best so its the only way" despite the fact that builds have been ticking along just fine for the last forty odd years old school.

Just curious what the rest of you thought and are currently doing. I think so far feedback supports my "old school is fine" position. Still, its always good to hear what current thought is, and what is and isn't working for the rest of you.

Carry on :smokin:


I kinda posted something of the same sorts in the jeep forum awhile ago. I think I had more fun wheeling my stock 88 with hacked fenders and 39.5's more than any other rig I've ever had. It was tupid simple to work on and would fit just about anywhere....I miss that thing.

I don't really feel like my Cruiser wheels "that" much better now that it is linked front and rear than it did when it was on leafs front and rear.

The main thing I gained was less repair time. I was replacing a spring or two every other trip due to spring wrap..with a rear traction bar.

If you can get a leaf spring setup properly tuned, then I don't believe the average to hardcore wheeler will gain much from coilovers and links other than bragging rights. Which is nice too:D

i have always had the mindset that one should get the best he can afford, or just a little over. Not everyone needs a DOM cage, 4 link and coilovers. most will be happy just to be out wheelin, i know i am. my truggy is almost all herw, with only a few exceptions. did i want dom - ya but i couldnt justify the cost for my build. a well desined cage with herw can be just as strong as a mild dom cage. unless you plan on rolling a lot :flipoff2:



do what you can afford and go wheelin. i think the reason so many people bail on there builds is because the time it takes to build a 4 linked ring or full on buggy, and the money. just look in the for sale section, there are tons of good rigs and semi finished rigs.

so pro let it out ( not the snake, you sick fuck :flipoff2: ) what is the new build - or idea floating around your sick little mind ? :D

so pro let it out ( not the snake, you sick fuck :flipoff2: ) what is the new build - or idea floating around your sick little mind ? :D

In other threads he's mentioned it, a linked EB.

Justin

Yup, a linked EB.

But I've also got some stuff kicking around for SuperBeast :D

Although, at the rate I seem to get stuff done these days who knows who long until things come together.

Heres a tip for the rest of you, don't put a liquor dispenser (it looks like a gas pump), a big screen t.v., leather recliner and an xbox in your shop. I think there might be a correlation between when I put all that in there and my work slowing down :homer:

Ditto on the alternative entertainment in the garage. I have to run old war flicks and star wars movies on my t.v. or I wind up watching the tele instead of wrenching.

I'm in agreement with much of what has been said here. While everyone wants a long travel link setup to absorb whoops at 80 mph and crawl rocks and mud run and still drive to 7-11 and the parts store. Not too many of us can afford the time and money it takes to get a link and coilovers tuned right. Many a rig has been sold because guys got tired of wrenching and tuning and just wanted to drive again.

My favorite example is my friend who had a 69 roadrunner with a 440 and a 4 speed. He had more money in that car than he could count and still couldn't break the 11.80's with it. He sold the car, went down and bought a late model firebird, threw on a nitrous system, bolted on some M/T drag radials and ran 12's all day long without touching a thing. Sure there were faster cars, but he had a lot more time to drive and a lot more time to benchrace with everybody and went home without grease on his clothes or smelling like gas. The last part made his wife a lot happier, which made the little head a lot happier:)

I built the front 3 link when I did the D60 swap in my Bronco 4 years ago and it's been a great setup. The flex is awesome, no durability issues, and it was really cheap to do since I did all the fab work. All I bought was DOM tube, Johnny joints, and some plate and bolts.
I kept the leafs in the rear, did a shackle flip with the shackle angle set to make a soft spring rate, and it's been very good. I'd like to 4 link the rear to improve the departure angle but I think it would kill the drivability on pavement.

Ditto on the alternative entertainment in the garage. I have to run old war flicks and star wars movies on my t.v. or I wind up watching the tele instead of wrenching.

I'm in agreement with much of what has been said here. While everyone wants a long travel link setup to absorb whoops at 80 mph and crawl rocks and mud run and still drive to 7-11 and the parts store. Not too many of us can afford the time and money it takes to get a link and coilovers tuned right. Many a rig has been sold because guys got tired of wrenching and tuning and just wanted to drive again.

My favorite example is my friend who had a 69 roadrunner with a 440 and a 4 speed. He had more money in that car than he could count and still couldn't break the 11.80's with it. He sold the car, went down and bought a late model firebird, threw on a nitrous system, bolted on some M/T drag radials and ran 12's all day long without touching a thing. Sure there were faster cars, but he had a lot more time to drive and a lot more time to benchrace with everybody and went home without grease on his clothes or smelling like gas. The last part made his wife a lot happier, which made the little head a lot happier:)

I had a 500 dollar 69 RR that ran 11.2 1/4's at 126mph with a vertical gate hurst shifter and a healthy 383. Your friend needs to learn to shift.

no shit! the thunderchicken w/ simple mods that are free, an air box and 150 shot of nitrous with sticky tires should try to tickle 10's!!!!!


LEARN HOW TO DRIVE! :laughing:

[QUOTE=Proeliator;8512298]Yup, a linked EB.

QUOTE]
Holy fawk.....
are you leaving the mud behind???

[QUOTE=Proeliator;8512298]Yup, a linked EB.

QUOTE]
Holy fawk.....
are you leaving the mud behind???

3...2...1 untill Jopes comes in with a gay mud comment :flipoff2:

Naaa, I just like tackling all terrains and quite some time ago my main wheeler became too ginormous for rock crawls and the tight trails out here. Any one rig is somewhat of a compromise, so I figured I'd keep one a giant bogger/dragger and go the other direction with one of my eb's.

naaaa you're just to much of a pansy ass to accept body damage, but then again if you actually had enough power to float across the mud you could have to worry about losingg control and smashing a bank :flipoff2:

Yup, a linked EB.

Wow... how original :flipoff2:

I want to go a different direction with my buggy and I want a streetable family wheelin rig... which is something I really miss. I have an exploder to molest which is our 3rd DD type vehicle so it's not like I'd have to rely on it being together every single day. One thought is to take all the good parts off the buggy, put them in the exploder and build an entirely new buggy from scratch. The other idea is to buy new stuff for the sploder and revamp the buggy I have. However I still think that will result in two axles and a powertrain laying on the floor as the starting point for a buggy :laughing:

Wow... how original :flipoff2:

Well, thats the problem. Which is why I've mentioned before what I really plan to do is use the frame to build a warthog (get your geek on!). I hate doing stuff thats been done a hundred times. So, technically, it will be a linked EB, but hopefully it should have a pretty big wtf factor. We'll see. I'm still working on some sketchy design aspects.

but hopefully it should have a pretty big wtf factor..


No worries on that one... Most things you do make people go WTF?!?!?!?!:flipoff2:

No worries on that one... Most things you do make people go WTF?!?!?!?!:flipoff2:

:laughing:

Both y'all can lick my buttered taint :flipoff2:


:laughing:

why is your taint buttered?

Like many others have said, I'm going to stick with leafs because they are easy, simple, and (the main reason) cheap. I'll leave the front of my Bronco coil for now, but will probably convert it to leafs once I get ready for one-tons.

A quarter-eliptical is also something I've been pondering for quite some time now. I might grow the balls and try it once the BKO is up and running...

Both y'all can lick my buttered taint :flipoff2:


:laughing:

:rainbow:

why is your taint buttered?

:rainbow:

Mark just answered your question. For whatever reason he likes to butter it up after he shaves it for me. Yea, I think its pretty gay too :shrug:

why is your taint buttered?

:rainbow:

Mark just answered your question. For whatever reason he likes to butter it up after he shaves it for me. Yea, I think its pretty gay too :shrug:

Thread-jacking your own threads now? Thats pathetic :shaking:


You're supposed to leave that to the other inconsiderate assholes of the world :flipoff2:

Thread-jacking your own threads now? Thats pathetic :shaking:


You're supposed to leave that to the other inconsiderate assholes of the world :flipoff2:

Well, you'd better hurry up and post your own thread thead :laughing:

Well, you'd better hurry up and post your own thread thead :laughing:

Why? Its more fun to mess with everybody else's threads :laughing:

Besides, I'm not super homo ghey enough to start my own thread talking about how great the Screwball is while its still sitting on a D44/9", a relatively stock motor, and the most extreme wheeling its been through is a little bitty hill climb with some mud on it :shaking: Living in central texas sucks for wheeling :mad3:

Living in central texas sucks for wheeling :mad3:

Yea, but at least you can shoot people who come onto your property. That fully rules.

Living in central texas sucks for wheeling :mad3:
Trees ranch?

Katemcy?

Yea, but at least you can shoot people who come onto your property. That fully rules.

Yes, this is very true. Here in Texas, we do have some fairly strong individual rights :D

Trees ranch?

Katemcy?

From the waco area, without a tow rig of your own, its a bitch to get to those ranches. I'm working on locating a quality tow rig, but with the price of fuel these days its still going to break my balls :eek:

Cost, simple, stable and I think if you actually weighed the parts for a link set up some leaf spring set ups could be lighter.