THIS IS OUR LAST CHANCE TO REOPEN SURPRISE CANYON - The Anti-Recreationists will be in force at these meetings --WILL WE????

check the calendar or these threads for more info


http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=69507&referrerid=1494

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=64380&referrerid=1494

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=60708&referrerid=1494


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I'm going to the evening Pasadena meeting, anyone in the southbay wanna hookup?

Originally posted by r77toy
I'm going to the evening Pasadena meeting, anyone in the southbay wanna hookup?

I'll be leaving straight from work. I believe the meeting starts at 3 with a break in the middle, I could be wrong and it might be two seperate meetings.

There should be afew of us showing up tonight at the Ridgecrest meeting. :)

Originally posted by fatkid
There should be afew of us showing up tonight at the Ridgecrest meeting. :)

Was just talking to Phil, said the R/C chapter will rollin deep, get it:D

the way it was worded led me to believe that there were 2 separate meetings on each date. If I'm incorrect someone please tell me so i can get there earlier. I was planning on going to the later meeting because of my work schedule, but if I need to i can take off early that day.

Dallas

How bout it 'Benders...I hear you guys were in Force at the Ridge meeting last night along with the Gear Grinders and someone from On the Rocks from Ventura (had I known I would have hitched a ride :(, he had to practically drive by my house to get there)...

Was it a "2 part" meeting or 2 seperate meetings?

I'll be leaving Simi at 12:30 for the BK meeting today...anyone else going??


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The Benders out numbered the 'greenies' 3 to 1 (not counting the other groups !!!!!). There were two seperate meetings and we attended both ! Most all the Benders got up and spoke, from the 'I wanna go wheelin' to 'economic impact to the small business and area". The 'greenies' that spoke ----- none have EVER been to/or in/ or up Surprize !!!!!
BLM locals are on our side-
The off roaders out numbered the 'greenies' bout 7 to 1 !!!
the greens started to say how many tons of dirt it would take to build a paved road to Panamint City, and the cost ---- NOT
the other thing is migrateing water fowl-------NOT
(Surprize is 1 of the 11 Canyons that have water in the Panamint Range) and the flow of water is ---.7 miles !!

Sounds great Krusty, I was a little worried after talking to Bender when he got back from the early meeting. He sounded pretty worked up.

Bender also mentioned something about one of the greenies getting busted (arrested?) for smearing grease on the rocks, then trying to blame the wheelers. Got any details on that, and was it brought up at the meeting?

My hat is off to the Tin Benders, Gear Grinders and On the Rocks! Great effort. :beer: :beer:

Jon

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Here is the meeting report from Jeri Furgeson:



A meeting report from Jeri Ferguson - CA4WDC
I attended the first of the 5 scoping meeting to be held through out California with the following clubs. The Gear Grinders (Ridgecrest), Tin Benders (Ridgecrest) and On the Rocks 4x4 Club (Ventura).

The anti-motorized people were there giving talking points about the warm and fuzzy while we gave substantive comments. What I mean by substantive Comments are that the Environmental Impact Statement has to address what we had to say, such as economic impacts (the small business owner in Ridgecrest that does metal frabrication) to there not being any type of endangered species in the canyon. I feel that we did a much better job at voicing our opinions on why the canyon should be kept open then the reasons for it to be closed.

Hope everyone takes the time to attend at least on of these meetings to help out on this important issue. One of the gentlemen from On the Rocks said " This issue is important to me and if I only get 4 hours of sleep tonight it was well worth the drive to be a part of keeping the canyon open." That is 4 hours of drive time and 200 miles one way.

If anyone has any questions send me an email. As you can tell I'm getting home late and will not be here to answer the phone while these scoping meetings are happening.

Jeri Ferguson
CA4WDC NRC

Sweet beans! I'm so at the SD meeting.

Page three?

BTT

Let's not forget we got more meetings to attend!!

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If you don't go, you ARE the problem!!! Lets go people!!!!!

Originally posted by r77toy
I'm going to the evening Pasadena meeting, anyone in the southbay wanna hookup?



I am gonna try and go as well....PM me.

BTT Lets keep this goin everyone. I wanna see some greenies get spanked.

Dallas

Sticky please:D

3:00 p.m. to 5:00 p.m. and 7:00 p.m. to 9:00 p.m

Boulder Creek RV Resort Clubhouse
2550 South Highway 395
Lone Pine, CA. 93545

;)

San Diego's meeting is at the Hilton, take Mission Center off of the 8, south side of the freeway.

PLEASE READ THE POST(s) in the L/U section...Like Ed says, it';s a matter of minutes at the meetings...even if you're not going to say much, sign up to say something...thats less time for the opposition to comment.... It's time to play their games!

My hats off to the Bakersfield Trailblazers - They were in force at BOTH meetings and had some very substantial Comments to add and some genuine concerns for access, history, and the ability to assist the BLM in protecting/caring f orthe riparian habitat found in the Canyon...

Marlin from Marlin Crawler in Fresno was there and had some points about the historic value of the area.

CruZilla (Steve I think, I had a long drive) drove over 3 hours.

Another Gentelman drove from Anaheim (I forgot his name too - apparently I'm pretty worthless with names after 8:30pm :)).

Jeri from CA4WDC was at this meeting as well as the Ridgecrest meetings and has plans to be at ALL the meetings! Here's a note she whipped up about the meeting....



To All:

I started my day off at the Kern County Supervisors Office where on their agenda was a Resolution to Oppose the Boxer Wilderness. There were only four of us that supported that resolution, Myself, Ron Shiller (High Desert Multiple Use Coalition) Mary Grimlsey and Bill Maddox (Gear Grinders 4x4 club). Seems that a major Sierra Club member had asked for a date extention and so the Supervisor granted that they would not make a decision until Sept. 10, 2002.

The Green People stood up there saying how they had contracted all the leaders of the OHV groups and that all the Roads and Trails that are in these Wilderness areas the Green People have made sure that they were either cherrystemmed or not in the wilderness.

Mr. McQuiston (Kern County Supervisor) when it came time for his comments made a comment in reference to this asking if Maps were available and the Vehicle Access Communities have been talked to then why did Don Amador (Blue Ribbon Coalition) have to use a Freedom of Information Act to get any type of information about the Boxer Wilderness. Mr McQuiston also had requested 6 months ago when Boxer's staff had visited him to do public town hall meetings so the general public could have input not just a selected few.

So the interesting part of this was the very same people who spoke at Kern County Supervisor's meeting saying that everything had been Cherrystemmed or taken out had drove over to the Surprise Canyon meeting to oppose the opening of Surprise canyon even though it was stated that this is a congressionally designated cherrystem from congress.

The Surprise meeting had a good attendance from the Bakersfield Trailblazers. Had a couple of of gentlemen from West Coast 4x4 Club and one gentleman from Ventura Axlesnappers. Also Bob Bennet the Central District VP also was in Attendence.

The Bakersfield Trailblazers gave the history of the canyon and their adopt-a-trail agreement. Others talked about just the general concept of why the canyon was closed and that it was unjust. The Green people got up and talked about how it was bad for the canyon with vehicles spewing gas all over that part was entertaining since we know that doesn't happen. It was another good meeting and We did a good job.

Jeri Ferguson
CA4WDC NRC



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ttt:D

so how did tuesday and yesterdays meetings go? i heard a lot about the ridgecrest meetings but nothing about the other 2.

Dallas

i am really glad to see the support ...keep it up...hats off to you guys from TX...spank em...
they say that what happens in CA usually sets a precedent across the nation...we make a stand here....nip it in the bud...

btt

Learn what they (the greens) already have:

http://www.ca.blm.gov/caso/surpri.html

Surprise Canyon Wilderness Map (http://www.ca.blm.gov/caso/surpri-m.html)


Please notice that Congress recognized Surprise Canyon Road as legal, and a cherrystem surrounded by Wilderness, in the Desert Protection Act of 1994.

Happy Trails!

Anybody got a link to "talking points" I can use? I will be at the later Pasadena meeting if work allows me to get out at a reasonable hour. Anybody else from the LA/Valley area gonna be there?

See you guys in Pasadena.

A snip from H. Marie Brashear's post on the LUN regarding the Ridgecrest meeting:

Jeri, and the 4 wheel drive clubs did a really good job as did the High
Desert Multiple Use Coalition the folks from Trona and a number of local
residents. Through out the day there were a total of 7 folks from the
local Sierra Club and California Native Plant Society; so who spoke and
some who didn't. The two folks, father and son who live in Surprise
Canyon, attended and were not very clear in their ideas. The wanted to
keep their own private park; but wanted to be able to put the road back
in when mining came back, clearly they didn't understand the greater
issues. Their issues seemed to be water quality and bighorn. Water
quality won't hurt us because the studies for the CA4WDC event (before,
during, after) showed no significant contamination. Bighorn do not seem
to be harmed by vehicle access or humans for that matter. In Palm
Springs they have been found on golf courses and in people's back yards
grazing and watering. There have been studies for large construction
projects and the like and there has been no disturbance of bighorn.
Bighorn numbers are declining, but it is mountain lion which are doing
it.

The scoping issues which need to be addressed are as followed: 1) The
Congress designated, after years of consideration, this road as open
access and an EIS may not close it. 2) The road is an RS2477 right
belonging to the County of Inyo. It is on the County's book of maps to
be maintained and BLM has no jurisdiction. 3) There are 11 perennial
streams in the Panamints 8 of which are totally protected by wilderness.
This fact must be considered as part of the analysis. 4) Cumulative
impacts to family recreation must also be included. 5) The most recent
flash flood cleaned the canyon of most if not all of vegetation. Far
more damage to the canyon ripaian areas than vehicles. The analysis
needs to evaluate how often flash floods occur and the impact to the so
called riparian vegetation. 6) Analysis needs to consider the impact of
mountain lion on bighorn. 7) This road is an adopt a trail. The folks
who maintain the trail carry out the rubbish the hikers take in, protect
and have begun to restore Panamint City. The analysis needs to address
what the impact will be as this will no longer be an adopt a trail. 8)
As there are a number of options under the Wild and Scenic River Act all
issues raised by scoping must be analyzed with respect to each of these
option. 9) The economic impact of the action must be considered. It
must be considered fully by including the impacts to those towns and
communities outside of Inyo County including Trona and Ridgecrest.

NOTE: There was a young man who was a member of CA4WDC and a couple of
other groups, and who fabricates stuff for other businesses and
individuals. He spoke about those locally, that he purchased steel
from, purchased paint from, bought welding gas from and out sourced to.
He really made an impact. He spoke softly, but made his points so well.

Back to the scoping issues: ) 10) Now that the toxic hazard of
accumulated fuel load is being recognized as a hazardous material, as it
should be and should have been years ago. The Surprise Canyon EIS must
consider this issue. This is a basic Environmental Justice issue. Rural
people should not be discriminated against in the application of
Environmental Justice policies. The right to receive the benefits of
Environmental Justice considerations under NEPA planning is not just an
urban right, it is also a rural right. In NEPA based planning, due to
obvious hazardous material issues involved in fuel loads the
Environmental Justice Executive Order provisions need to be acknowledged
and consistently applied." This ticking time bomb of accumulated fuel
load for rural, desert and mountain residents is no different than urban
residents living next to a tire dump that gets set on fire, the same
effect - devastating, catastrophic and toxic smoke and fire. 11) The
analysis must consider all issues and their relationship to both the up
coming WEMO plan and the recently completed NEMO plan. I suppose we
could also throw in the NECO and WECO plans as well. 12) Maybe we
should also raise the issue that if it is the intent to ask Congress to
close Surprise Canyon them maybe the EIS should address the possibility
of evaluating for OPENING the 8 closed canyons with perennial streams
and recommending to Congress that one or more be OPENED. 13) The plan
should include analysis of and provide for, connecting routes or even a
new route when needed to mitigate resource damage. 14) The EIS must
evaluate the amount of use and the type and kind of use. How much
hiking. How much vehicle. Is it mostly groups. Is it mostly
individuals. We need to know exactly what is going on in Surprise
Canyon. 15) The EIS must clearly address and spell out the criteria
used to reach the conclusions and how that criteria was developed. 16)
The EIS should specifically indicate what actions are to be taken and
what the exact expected benefits accomplish and in quantifiable terms so
as to improve monitoring.

Any or all of these issues as well as many more I am sure, can be
brought up again at any of the Surprise Canyon meetings. July 29

Desert Empire Fairgrounds
Mesquite Hall
530 South Richmond Road
Ridgecrest, CA. 93555 DONE July 30

Doubletree Hotel
3100 Camino Del Rio Court
Bakersfield, CA. 9330820

DONE July 31
Boulder Creek RV Resort Clubhouse
2550 South Highway 395
Lone Pine, CA. 93545



August 5
Sheraton Pasadena Hotel20
303 East Cordova Street20
Pasadena, CA 91101

August 6
Hilton San Diego Mission Valley
901 Camino Del Rio South
San Diego, CA. 92108


Marie

btt

:mad:

here are some talking points for both meetings, I'll be trying to cover most of them at the Pasadena meeting, but we'll need someone(s) to cover all of them at the SD meeting, you guys are farthest from the trail and need to let the BLM know how far you drive to get there and ho much money you spend doing it...

here's the link to the thread in the L/U section

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=71802&referrerid=1494


:usa:

Why can't this thing be a sticky?:confused:

Originally posted by Ed A. Stevens
NOTE: There was a young man who was a member of CA4WDC and a couple of
other groups, and who fabricates stuff for other businesses and
individuals. He spoke about those locally, that he purchased steel
from, purchased paint from, bought welding gas from and out sourced to.
He really made an impact. He spoke softly, but made his points so well.



That was fatkid, good job bud:D

Originally posted by Todd
San Diego's meeting is at the Hilton, take Mission Center off of the 8, south side of the freeway.


Here's a link to a map. Be there.


http://maps.yahoo.com/py/maps.py?BFCat=&Pyt=Tmap&newFL=Use+Address+Below&addr=901+camino+del+rio+south&csz=san+diego%2Cca.&Country=us&Get%A0Map=Get+Map

Originally posted by Bill4rest
Why can't this thing be a sticky?:confused:

the only people that read stickys have already posted in this thread...


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