New battery thread who's #1 [Archive]

JEEP_TJ_FREAK

10-23-2001, 09:44 AM

Originally posted by Blackjack:
Optima yellow and blue tops are not "true" deep cycle batteries. They are more of a starting marine type battery. They do have heavier plates and can handle repeated discharge better than the red top. This is what I was told by an Optima engineer at a battery seminar I attended. He also told me that an automotive alternator will not recharge a blue or yellow top over about 96%, and to give it an occasional recharge with a battery charger designed for deep cycle batteries.

what he said, also i was told warantees on red tops are voided if used with a winch and also ill add IMO a red top should not be used for winching it is a starting battery designed for high draw short duration bursts, i have never used my winch in that manner. yellow tops are designed for lower draw extended duration use much more like my winching manners (well except for the load part but i cant find both in one).

again as was mentioned never connect a winch to side posts.

Originally posted by Just make it stop Skyetone:
I am looking into a redtop. So far 4WPW has one for like 120. I am interested in the painless wiri setup for dual batteries, I thought I could setup most acesories like winch, KC's, and crap like that to one but only charge part time. Is that how that works?

build your own, they are very simple really. all you need is a marine continuos duty solenoid, a toggle some scrap wire and extra welding lead. wire the toggle to activate the soleniod and wire the soleniod to bridge the two batteries together. ~ $35 plus battery usually mounting is the hardest part.

bertha

10-23-2001, 10:42 AM

I'll chime in now, AutoZOne now carries the Optimas Red and Yellow. I have been running the Orbital from Exide and it has been trouble free. Cheaper too. just my $.02

mrblaine

10-23-2001, 10:32 PM

Originally posted by Just make it stop Skyetone:

Who's got the biggest baddest battery around? <IMG SRC="smilies/beer.gif" border="0">

That would be the battery in my jeep. 1700 cca in a group 27 size sitting in the stock battery tray. Deep cycle to boot. Made by Odyssey, the company that invented the Optima and then sold it when better technology came along.

Skyetone

10-24-2001, 07:08 PM

<IMG SRC="smilies/beer.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/beer.gif" border="0"> HOLY SHIT 1700cca?
Speaking of witch WTF is with the ca and cca's on the new optimas? I got the #1050 and the guy swore it had 1050 ca and like 850cca But it has like 850ca and 750cca. Did they change this or what? The guy I called for a counter offer on price said he had one that was 1050 ca's and then 4wpw tells me that this is all optima makes? I don't get it? Did optima come with a 1100 ca battery in the past or what?

mrblaine

10-25-2001, 03:13 AM

Originally posted by Just make it stop Skyetone:
 <IMG SRC="smilies/beer.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/beer.gif" border="0"> HOLY SHIT 1700cca?
Speaking of witch WTF is with the ca and cca's on the new optimas? I got the #1050 and the guy swore it had 1050 ca and like 850cca But it has like 850ca and 750cca. Did they change this or what? The guy I called for a counter offer on price said he had one that was 1050 ca's and then 4wpw tells me that this is all optima makes? I don't get it? Did optima come with a 1100 ca battery in the past or what?

1700 in the one I have and soon to be released a 3400 cca version in a group 31 size. We will be using a pair of the 3400's in the ambulances I build.

RE:Todd

10-25-2001, 06:31 AM

I've got the top of the line AutoZone battery. Had the best warranty I could find, I think it's 5 year free replacement, then prorated for 3 years after that!!

SeaBass44

08-22-2008, 10:17 PM

I've got the top of the line AutoZone battery. Had the best warranty I could find, I think it's 5 year free replacement, then prorated for 3 years after that!!
good deal ! will anyone notice last post was nov 2001 7 years ago, lol..see search does work

Jeepermat

08-22-2008, 10:23 PM

Uh yea, I do notice

urbanmuddboger

08-22-2008, 10:30 PM

SeaBass44

08-22-2008, 10:35 PM

i just bought a optima from costco for....... (drum rool please)
15 dollars yes you read right 15 mutha fuckin dollars :smokin:
the teller wrang it up wrong so i hurred up and payed and got the hell outta there:D
YOU BRAG ABOUT BEING DISSHONEST?
nice:confused:

Elwenil

08-22-2008, 10:36 PM

Necroposting?

RedBullJeep

08-22-2008, 10:49 PM

http://www.powermastermotorsports.com/S1200web.jpg The new bad-boy of winch batts...
:dustin:

Triaged

08-22-2008, 10:55 PM

Exide Orbital. Yes people will notice!

-=PEAKABOO=-

08-23-2008, 01:27 AM

beyer05

08-23-2008, 04:56 AM

http://www.powermastermotorsports.com/S1200web.jpg The new bad-boy of winch batts...
:dustin:

Dustin, are you running one of these?
Some more info on these here:
http://xspowerbatteries.com/performance/catalog/

D'Animal

08-23-2008, 05:01 AM

2,000 Amps seems a bit high.

Nice thread revival by the way.

mrblaine

08-23-2008, 07:17 AM

2,000 Amps seems a bit high.

Nice thread revival by the way.

It actually is nice. The 1700 I put in my rig back in 01 is still going strong with nary a hiccup.

As far as that whizbang battery of Dustin's. Compare the same specs in the same category. It only has 600 CCA. (the wee tiny column on the far right)

the_experience3006

08-23-2008, 07:36 AM

It actually is nice. The 1700 I put in my rig back in 01 is still going strong with nary a hiccup.

As far as that whizbang battery of Dustin's. Compare the same specs in the same category. It only has 600 CCA. (the wee tiny column on the far right)

Actually, it doesn't even have 600 CCA. Cold cranking amps are measured at 0* F whereas that rating is at 32* F. The 600 is the CA rating and not of much use. The 2000 MAX amps is a proprietary rating and means nothing. It might provide 2000 amps...when struck by lightning...but there is no industry stanard being used here so it can't be used for a fair comparison. I liken it to a Honda guy saying he has 600 horsepower and a big block guy saying he has 200. Without knowing the RPM the rating is useless. The Honda guy might make 600 horsepower at 6000 RPM (peak) whereas the big block guy is talking about at say 2500 RPM where he is at peak torque, but still has LOTS of horsepower to offer above that.

Let me be the first to say I have warranty replaced Optimas at a rate as high, if not higher, than standard wet lead acid batteries. The older Optimas were GREAT batteries, but in recent years the quality seems to have suffered. My theory is that with ramped up production due to popularity as well as the military, coupled with high raw materials costs, have resulted in lower quality lead being used. THAT'S what used to make the Optimas better...the quality of lead used.

My preference? Get a good quality wet lead acid battery with the highest rating and longest warranty you can afford. Modern labyrinth venting does a VERY good job of keeping the fluid in the battery during charging and if you ever roll over. Sure, if you puncture the case it's pretty much game over and will leak, but the Optima is game over even if it isn't leaking. A box of baking soda in the tool kit will minimize any environmental damages.

Personally, my business goes to East Penn/Deka. They make a quality battery (OE supplier in many cases) that is a nice compromise between price, warranty, and longevity. If money were no issue I'd get the largest Odyssey out there, but by the time you buy the battery, custom tray, hold downs, and adapters you're in some money.

RockMolester

08-23-2008, 10:44 AM

This is a 7-year-old thread we just dug up. :flipoff2:

Anyways, check into the new AGM battery that you can get from CarQuest. It's not a spiral-wound battery like the Optima and Exide AGM's, it's a square one like the Odyssey batteries, so it has more surface area and more contact surface area internally for higher capacity and amperage.

I just replaced the two dead Optima's in my Pinzgauer with the starting/deep cycle CarQuest batteries and am quite pleased with them. Since Optima's are junk nowadays, I sure wasn't going to blow the kind of money they're asking for them now!

RedBullJeep

08-23-2008, 12:01 PM

http://xspowerbatteries.com/performance/catalog/testingandfaq.php

That link is to some FAQ's on batt testing and ratings. Recently, many of the companies have been shaken up by the crackdown on false ratings. That's why even Optima stuff is instituting new ratings that are lower than previously advertised. Many companies were submitting clean lead batteries for their testing but producing with less than perfect lead, which reduced the actual power.

We were running the 925 from Odyssey and when we had 2 of them (new) die right in a row, started searching for a new battery. Not sure if the Odyssey thing was just a fluke or not as those batts had been amazing over the years. During our search, we found the AGM from Powermaster that used the same Odyssey case, so it would fit in perfectly. We're not using the 1000 as for our needs, the 925 spec is more than enough. For the KOH racer we have in the works, we'll either jump to a 1000 or run 2 x 925's...the twin 925's will prolly be our way to go because we'll then be running the same batts in pretty much everything.

under_psi

08-23-2008, 12:16 PM

that above pic'd battery looks identical to my 925 odyssey....it is a trooper...killed by my non functional alternator excitor wire like 6 times, and then sat for a month here recently and fired right up...

also ran 2 of them in 2 different TT rx7's that i owned...nothing but good things to say about them....

either way, i bet they are damn similar....

peccary

08-25-2008, 12:40 PM

NEVER EVER use the side posts of an optima for a winch. They like to melt and sizzle if you run the winch hard.

[ 10-21-2001: Message edited by: Blackjack ]

Interesting point, I have been doing it for years and no problem, guess I got lucky. Talked to Optima tech support and they recommend against it.

The side post will supply the full CCA (800A for a size 34) for up to 30 seconds but high sustained currents like a winch can cause the lead link to the side post to melt.

94stepsideford

08-25-2008, 01:02 PM

Interesting point, I have been doing it for years and no problem, guess I got lucky. Talked to Optima tech support and they recommend against it.

The side post will supply the full CCA (800A for a size 34) for up to 30 seconds but high sustained currents like a winch can cause the lead link to the side post to melt.

MY buddy killed his by just cranking his 77 chevy too long. We thought the whole fuggin truck was on fire.:eek:

alienjeep

08-25-2008, 04:03 PM

http://www.active-robots.com/products/power-supplies/odyssey-batteries/pc1200-750.jpg
=)

minesbigger

08-25-2008, 05:42 PM

i ran an exide for like 5-6 years with no probs in an abused jeep
i had to go back with a red top cause i couldnt find another exide anywhere local
i trust the exide more due to the fact a buddy of mine has killed 3 reds in a year

4x4junkie

08-25-2008, 07:09 PM

My preference? Get a good quality wet lead acid battery with the highest rating and longest warranty you can afford. Modern labyrinth venting does a VERY good job of keeping the fluid in the battery during charging and if you ever roll over. Sure, if you puncture the case it's pretty much game over and will leak, but the Optima is game over even if it isn't leaking. A box of baking soda in the tool kit will minimize any environmental damages.

You might suggest some specific names of batteries that have those vents you mention, the ONLY ones I've ever been able to find are the Delco Voyager batteries, which can be very hard to track down (at least in my area anyway). IIRC, they are East Penn batteries, but what others made by them are out there?

Diehard, Motorcraft, Energizer, Interstate, Duralast, Exide... they all leak just from the bouncing & sloshing, you don't even need to have a roll over with those (batteries made by Johnson Controls seem to be the worst leak offenders).

Albin

08-26-2008, 04:38 AM

Note the differences in opinion in the Optima batteries from 7 years ago vs. today.

xjemily

08-26-2008, 04:51 AM

red top all the way.been running it for 3 years,never a problem

dan58

08-26-2008, 05:12 AM

No mention of the Deka Intimidator? Fantastic battery.

Aggie007

08-26-2008, 06:18 AM

No mention of the Deka Intimidator? Fantastic battery.

I second Deka. I have replaced all my marine, trolling motor, and automotive batteries with Dekas. I have had great luck with there batteries. www.eastpenn-deka.com/

Mechanos

08-26-2008, 07:06 AM

Third for the Intimidator.

85blue4runner

08-26-2008, 07:41 PM

killed two red tops in two years, looks like its time for a Hawker/Odyssey.

Motornoggin

08-26-2008, 10:59 PM

Third for the Intimidator.
Yup. My vehicles only get Deka. I have an Intimidator in my Suburban with a standard Deka battery for a backup, and my Jeep will get an Intimidator if it's current Deka ever fails. Like the experience said, it is probably the best bang for the buck of any battery out there.
I work at an RV dealership and we go through somewhere around 1000 batteries a year, all of them being Deka deep cycle. We have many "bad" batteries come back, but we almost always find the battery is OK, and they haven't charged it properly or something like that. I would be surprised if we have warrantied a dozen batteries in the four years we have been selling them.

rcurrier44

08-27-2008, 08:52 AM

Yup. My vehicles only get Deka.

So are these a sealed battery also? I don't want anything that could leak battery acid or corrode the terminals.

I love my optima but it is 10 years old and the new ones are not as good... It is the only dam battery that I have had that doesn't corrode the terminals.

SeaBass44

08-27-2008, 10:06 AM

So are these a sealed battery also? I don't want anything that could leak battery acid or corrode the terminals.

I love my optima but it is 10 years old and the new ones are not as good... It is the only dam battery that I have had that doesn't corrode the terminals.

a quick trip to there website told me everything..............:flipoff2:..yes the AGM is, they have others even solor & bike
AGM.absorbed glass mat, same as red tops etc
I've got 4 optimas
new yellow, 3 months great battery!
an older orange top
2 older reds

HardcorewannabeXJ

08-27-2008, 10:11 AM

SeaBass44

08-27-2008, 10:17 AM

Have a dead yellow top I'm trying to revive now, I'll probably buy another one unless this thread somehow convinces me otherwise.

Is the DEKA Intimidator a deep cycle? It appears it is, and might be cheaper then an optima.

The only one I found 4sale on Ebay that was what we want $199 + $60ish shipping, not cheaper there & Ebay usually has some good prices
search around GOOGLE, I'm sure yiou can find more, it's shipping that sucks on batterys, $35^^^^^^^^^^:(

ONE TON

08-27-2008, 11:09 AM

I was trying to locate a yellow top yesterday and found Sam's Club has red top 34/78s for $139 and yellow tops 34/78s for $163. These are the "GM" side and top post. Additionally, there is a $25 rebate for Optimas purchased until 9/15/08.

This links to the rebate via pdf download (http://www.1st-optima-batteries.com/$25RebateCoupon.pdf).

The red top has a 3 year free replacement and another 3 year prorated warranty.

The yellow top has a 1 year free replacement and a 1 year prorated warranty...

I've been running my yellow tops for three years, with a lot of garage time. In fact I drained one dead leaving the interior light on. It didn't want to hold a charge after jumping it with the battery isolator. However, after trickle charging it overnight, it works like new...And holds a charge without being started for more than a month at a time. And they turn over the engine a lot fast than the Walmart specials rated at 1000 CA...

jeepmudder

08-27-2008, 12:01 PM

I'll chime in...
Optima is worth every penny. I just replaced my 11 year old red top with a yellow top. I've had the yellow top flat dead a couple times already and it's charged up to full no problem. Still starts every time.
I manage a fleet of trucks used for surveying. All of them are running red tops. We've had a couple die, but they were replaced under warranty with no problems through interstate where we got them.

A friend had the following experience...

So this yellow top Optima is one that I bought about 3 years ago for 25$.
Yes. I said 25$.
It had been sitting on the shelf at Autozone for 5 years. They labled as a "used" battery and marked it from 189$ to 25$.
I bought it (naturally it worked AMAZING) and ran it in my Jeep for a year.
One day it quit working. I couldn't get it to hold a charge.
So I took it out and used it for a door stop on the cement floor of my garage for another year.

Again: I SAT IT ON THE CEMENT FOR A YEAR.....that spells certain death for any battery. Not an Optima.
A freind on Flickr told me I should trickle charge it as slowly as i could for several days and see what happens. Naturally I was skeptical... no battery could surive this kind of abuse....but I did it anyway.
When I put it on the charger to my amazement it showed that it still had 4.5 volts in it after sitting all that time....crazy!
I cooked at 2 amps for 4 days.
Imagine my suprise when it showed 12.98 Volts!
But, I thought...can it hold that?
So I watched it for a week.
Mon: 12.82
Tues: 12.76
Wed: 12.75
Thurs: 12. 74
Friday I got tired of being proved wrong and decided to put a load on it...I put it in the Jeep and it spun that V8 up like I had pulled the plugs out!
It was charging at 14 volts and after running it for 5 minuites I let it set and checked again: 13.04
OK, I admit it....this was frikin amazing.
I let it sit all day and then Saturday night I checked again: 12.72

So I drove it across town, jacked it up and pulled the tires off and left it sit for 3 weeks ....wait....maybe 4 weeks....I lost track....anyway....today I walked in, mounted the wheels and it fired up just like it did before....only it was still spinning that V8 over like it didn't have any plugs in it!
I drove it around a bit and guess what?
It's still holding 12.72 Volts.
Remind me again why I would want to buy a NORMAL battery?

SeaBass44

08-27-2008, 12:16 PM

Again: I SAT IT ON THE CEMENT FOR A YEAR.....that spells certain death for any battery.
That has not been true for over 50 years, dates back to when the cases were made from tire rubber, Goggle it........tons of info on battery's & the now myth that was true over 50+ years back:)

the_experience3006

08-27-2008, 12:42 PM

Remind me again why I would want to buy a NORMAL battery?

Because your anecdote refers to an Optima made 8 years ago, not one made today? Oh...and like Seabass said...concrete has no effect on modern batteries.

SeaBass44

08-27-2008, 01:15 PM

Here is the why:)

This myth does have some historical basis. Many years ago, wooden battery cases encased a glass jar with the battery in it. Any moisture on the floor could cause the wood to swell and possibly fracture the glass, causing it to leak. Later came the introduction of the "hard rubber" cases, which were somewhat porous. A current could be conducted through this container, which had a high carbon content, if the moist concrete floor permitted the current to find an electrical ground. The wise advise of the old days to "not store batteries on concrete" has apparently been passed down to us today, but it no longer applies.

RockMolester

08-27-2008, 01:36 PM

Here's more:

The notion that a concrete floor will drain a modern battery is an urban myth, but it does have some historical basis. A battery that sits in your garage for months, say for the winter, will lose some or all of its charge. Not because it's on the concrete floor, but because it's designed to be frequently charged by an alternator in a car being driven.

And decades ago, hard rubber battery cases with a high carbon content would allow a battery to drain if the concrete floor permitted the current to find an electrical ground. The standard wisdom of those days — don't store batteries on concrete — still gets passed along, even though it doesn't apply to modern batteries.

Even earlier, batteries came in a glass jar inside a wooden case. Moisture on the floor of a shop or garage could cause the wood to swell and fracture the glass, causing the battery to leak.

TearUmUpTim

08-27-2008, 05:17 PM

The only one I found 4sale on Ebay that was what we want $199 + $60ish shipping, not cheaper there & Ebay usually has some good prices
search around GOOGLE, I'm sure yiou can find more, it's shipping that sucks on batterys, $35^^^^^^^^^^:(

Try Carquest for the Deka Intimidator:

This:
http://www.carquest.com/common/downloads/partsBatteriesCQ_NGT.pdf

Is the same as:
http://www.dekabatteries.com/assets/base/1143.pdf

SeaBass44

08-27-2008, 05:21 PM

Try Carquest for the Deka Intimidator:

This:
http://www.carquest.com/common/downloads/partsBatteriesCQ_NGT.pdf

Is the same as:
http://www.dekabatteries.com/assets/base/1143.pdf

none here, I don't think there are even in calif:confused:

08-27-2008, 05:23 PM

Tim84K10

08-27-2008, 05:57 PM

Where? Winch is on the way....Diehard makes a sealed battery too.

Die Hard doesn't make batteries. They are made by Johnson Controls. Die Hard is just a brand name.

Interstate battery also carries Optima red top batterys with their sticker on it.

Interstate Batteries are also made by Johnson Controls, who also makes the Optima line of batteries. They are the same.

Tim84K10

08-27-2008, 05:59 PM

Word has it Exide is discontinuing their warrantee all together so if its made by Exide Caveat Emptor. Not sure about other mfgs. Batteries lose their charge over time no matter what surface they are sitting on. It could be that the walls let more electrons through on concrete or anything with a ground or big enough to hold charge. It may be told its a myth but even plastic has a limit to its insulation factor.

Exide batteries have been junk forever anyway.

Try Carquest for the Deka Intimidator:

This:
http://www.carquest.com/common/downloads/partsBatteriesCQ_NGT.pdf

Is the same as:
http://www.dekabatteries.com/assets/base/1143.pdf

Those are JCI batteries. Same as Sears and Autozone are carrying.

SeaBass44

08-27-2008, 06:11 PM

info I had saved

Originally Posted by Richard
from what I have been told , there are only 3 battery manufactures ,
EXIDE , Johnson Controls and the 3rd I can't reacall

Correct sir. East Penn is the other one.

Interstate, Optima, Die Hard, Autozone/Duralast........All Johnson Controls.

Wal-mart, Some Johnson Controls, some East Penn.

Exide is in bankruptcy, but they're still making batteries.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grim Reaper
DieHards SUCK! My work van was puking them in 14-18 months. I had a
deep cycle ruining a power inverter and the main battery. The FACTORY
battery lasted 3 years so yeah it was a DH problem not a me or van problem.
They fawked me on the warranty On the replacements.

Stay away from the battery's at Walmart and K-Mart..all crap. My Sub
had a nearly new Wally battery when I bought it that crapped out at less
then 12 months old. I had the receipt and got a full replacement but the guy
in line before me had the exact same problem.

While I think the Optima has its place I think a Lead acid of good
quality is still a better value if your not having some weird mounting
requirements. I have Run Duralast's form Auto Zone in all my cars as
replacements the last 5 years with zero problems. $30 less then the Optima
with a 8 year total warranty, first 3 is full replacement. Only had a
problem with one and it was not the battery's problem. It was a charge
problem on the car. They swapped as a customer service gesture even when the
tester showed the battery was good.

See above. Die Hard and Autozone batteries are made by the same
manufacturer. Just chalk this up as becoming a victim of market hype.

senatorfrisky

08-27-2008, 06:37 PM

i run a yellow top, handles my proform water pump, monster dual 15" FAL fans, stereo, lights, yada yada yada.

always charges like a champ, even when sitting out of the vehicle, in my cold ass NYY garage over SIX MONTHS of winter!

not sure if it's been mentioned... but trickle charge the bastads

dan58

08-27-2008, 07:23 PM

Exide batteries have been junk forever anyway.

Those are JCI batteries. Same as Sears and Autozone are carrying.

No. Those are made by Deka here in PA. Not Johnson. They are an independent mfgr. Read their front webpage. :shaking:

I paid $107 for my Deka Indimidator 4 years ago. A guy in my club just got one for $115. They have a dealer locater here: http://www.dekabatteries.com/default.aspx?pageid=355

The Jerk

08-27-2008, 09:12 PM

my yellow top is junk. i had it on the charger, for 2 weeks at 2amps. and wouldnt turn my honda over.

Had a blue top in teh boat for 2 years. always worked great. now dead and will only hold a charge for like a day. i turned it back in and got a diehard seals blue similar to optima marine deep cycle and i like it much better so far...

I have so may things with bats it sucks trying to keep them all fresh and charged.

pmurf1

08-27-2008, 10:44 PM

Just my opinon, but Otima's are crap. I killed two red tops in about 4 years. Last one I didn't even bother taking in for warranty, it's a hassle taking it out, driving it down to the servicer, let them charge it, return to pick it up, etc.. I've been running a $35 Costco Kirkland battery for two years and never had a problem. HS9500, stereo on all night, etc.. My buggy has sat since Memorial day in the garage and I went out and it started yesterday. And no it doesn't leak when flopped. Costco always has treated me well as far as returns if I need to, that's enough for me.

Tim84K10

08-27-2008, 11:00 PM

No. Those are made by Deka here in PA. Not Johnson. They are an independent mfgr. Read their front webpage. :shaking:

I paid $107 for my Deka Indimidator 4 years ago. A guy in my club just got one for $115. They have a dealer locater here: http://www.dekabatteries.com/default.aspx?pageid=355

Appears I made a mistake. Deka = East Penn, the last of the big three in car batteries. http://www.eastpenn-deka.com/

JCI, East Penn, and Exide are the big names. Carquest batteries are East-Penn. Autozone's are JCI. Sears JCI. Wal-Mart had a mixture of East-Penn and JCI last I looked, depending on part number. K-Mart had Exide back in the day.

I suspect most AGM batteries are ruined by shitty battery chargers. The design is actually good, but they cannot charge on the same charger as a regular plate type battery.

My motorcycle has an AGM battery. I like the fact that I never have to worry about a vent spilling acid on my paint.

broncojohn

08-27-2008, 11:27 PM

Napa Orbital. Never had an issue even after it sat during a 6 month deployment the truck fired right up.

beyer05

08-28-2008, 02:55 AM

Napa Orbital. Never had an issue even after it sat during a 6 month deployment the truck fired right up.

That is what I run as well. I have had to recharge it a couple of times due to a small drain on my buggy, but it always bounces back and works great. Now I either start the vehicle once a week or I unhook the battery.

Halogrinder

08-28-2008, 09:05 AM

meh. I run walmart batteries. why? they are cheap, and have a bitchen warranty on them. i have the biggest marine battery i could find in my ford and like it a lot.

remember just because you have a bitchen battery DOESNT mean it will survive if you have a parasidic draw in the rig. after getting everything turned off in the rig, disconnect the negative and put a DVOM in series to see what the millivolt draw is. should be less than 50 milliamps to make the battery survive for any length of time.

HardcorewannabeXJ

08-28-2008, 09:53 AM

Halogrinder

08-28-2008, 10:56 AM

if it were me i would start with the alternator. then i would pull fuses untill it goes to acceptable levels. remember to get a few fuses for your DVOM im sure you'll blow it :laughing:

RockMolester

08-28-2008, 12:57 PM

Try Carquest for the Deka Intimidator:

This:
http://www.carquest.com/common/downloads/partsBatteriesCQ_NGT.pdf

Is the same as:
http://www.dekabatteries.com/assets/base/1143.pdf

Yeah, those are the ones I was referencing in my above post. I put 2 of them in my 24-volt Pinzgauer to replace my dead Optima's.

PaintedRat

08-28-2008, 02:22 PM

What about an Odyssey? I've had one for almost a year and had good luck. It's sat for months at a time hooked up, and still started vehicles fine. I've used it to start or try to start a few vehicles this year. I trickle charged it full when it first arrived, and it never saw a charger or alternator until it went in an old CJ this weekend. I'm using a PC1200MJT. It's really compact, but heavy!

Toolmaker

08-28-2008, 02:52 PM

Napa Orbital , is what I have . So far it has worked great , while a buddy of mine has gone thru two red tops in the same time frame.

the_experience3006

08-28-2008, 06:54 PM

if it were me i would start with the alternator. then i would pull fuses untill it goes to acceptable levels. remember to get a few fuses for your DVOM im sure you'll blow it :laughing:

http://us.fluke.com/images/Products/Industrial/Electrical_Test_Tools/F-360_01a_200p.jpg

:mr-t:

89 Toy

08-29-2008, 10:33 AM

Exide's orbital xcd line works great for me. I run 2 of the 34XCD in my rig with no problems.

"The Exide Select Orbital® XCD—designed to complement the vehicle's starting battery—features a highly efficient design of spiral-wound plates combined with absorbed glass mat lead-acid chemistry. Orbital technology produces a battery with twice the life of a conventional battery and safety features that allow it to be located anywhere in the vehicle."

http://www.exide.com/products/automotive/exide_select_orbital_XCD.html

Link to the pdf http://www.exide.com/pdf/orbital_xcd_specs_and_features.pdf

Specifications:
● BCI Group Size: 34/78 (Top & Side Post)
● Voltage: 12
● CCA @ 0° F: 750
● CA @ 32° F: 950
● Max Amp @ 5 Sec: 1100
● RC minutes @ 25 Amps: 100
● Amp Hour @ 20 Hour Rate: 50

I like that they're up front with the #'s and actually give a true CCA rating from 0* and from 32*.

These are one of the many things I sell and I very very rarely see them come back bad. And when they do its never been a hassle to get warrantied. I just hand the customer a brand new one, and when the Exide guy comes buy he takes back the bad one no questions asked and replaces it on the spot.

As to the Optimas.... I agree that they've gone way down hill in recent years. With the cost of lead going through the roof allot of companies are cutting down the quality to keep the price the same, I know Exide (at least the XCD series) hasn't lowered the quality but rather increased the price to match the market and cost to manufacture.

As a consumer, I would rather pay a little more for the same quality I've come to expect rather than pay what I have been but get a cheaper battery.

Oh, and last thing (like you have better things to be doing than reading this :flipoff2:)

The Optimas you buy at Costco or Sams club for such a great deal are even worse than the ones you find at 4wd stores, or Interstate direct. Whoever it was that manufactures the optimas builds a specific battery just for Costco and Sams club that is designed for one purpose, to be cheap! Do not buy those pieces of junk!

Halogrinder

08-29-2008, 11:14 AM

http://us.fluke.com/images/Products/Industrial/Electrical_Test_Tools/F-360_01a_200p.jpg

:mr-t:

ok ok.... most dont have that, and most dont have a DVOM.....still fawking with a test light :laughing::p

i see your diagnostic tool, and raise you one with this :mr-t::smokin::smokin:

data logs up to 5 different circuits, including amp hours, tempurature and a shit ton of other things :flipoff2:

only cost like 6 grand :eek:

BossBuilt

03-17-2010, 07:15 PM

Interesting point, I have been doing it for years and no problem, guess I got lucky. Talked to Optima tech support and they recommend against it.

The side post will supply the full CCA (800A for a size 34) for up to 30 seconds but high sustained currents like a winch can cause the lead link to the side post to melt.

Yep you are lucky or you don't use your winch much.
http://i594.photobucket.com/albums/tt27/Bossbuilt/CIMG3003.jpg?t=1246926413

Action Fab

03-17-2010, 09:35 PM

ya'll may laugh.... But I have switched to the Walmart Maxx-starts. (the yellow ones) and have been very pleased. This is after going though $1000 worth of Optima blue yellow and red tops. The maxx-start in my TJ is 5 years old has sat unstarted for 3-4 moths at a time. been left in 15*-110* weather, and been winched off of about 150 times and finally died this weekend... before then it never once EVER gsve me trouble. hell I doubt it ever even droped below 11 volts.

OPTIMA SUCKS!

Oh and its not just me every one of my wheeling buddies has a few craped out optimas laying around.

sasexplorer

03-17-2010, 10:01 PM

mine has a chip in it and it still works great

sasexplorer

03-17-2010, 10:12 PM

SeaBass44

03-17-2010, 10:25 PM

the main reason why batteries don’t drain on concrete is when you think of plastic does it conduct electricity? no so how can electric travel threw two non conductive materials? It cant !common sense.

rubber is non conductive, & trhat is what the early 40's 50's batterys were made of that would disscharge on concrete;).....This myth does have some historical basis. Many years ago, wooden battery cases encased a glass jar with the battery in it. Any moisture on the floor could cause the wood to swell and possibly fracture the glass, causing it to leak. Later came the introduction of the "hard rubber" cases, which were somewhat porous. A current could be conducted through this container, which had a high carbon content, if the moist concrete floor permitted the current to find an electrical ground. The wise advise of the old days to "not store batteries on concrete" has apparently been passed down to us today, but it no longer applies.

Travis Waldher

03-17-2010, 10:33 PM

gr8pumkin

03-18-2010, 02:15 AM

Love my Odyssey never seems to even show a drain, I have it with a red top optima that runs the truck and the odyssey runs the winch.

beyer05

03-18-2010, 04:45 AM

It's either the walmart Maxx line or odyssee.

I wouldn't go with any other brand/make/model, it's too much of a crapshoot.

Are the wal-mart Maxx-line batteries gel cell or dry cell batteries?

BossBuilt

03-18-2010, 06:14 PM

hexal

03-18-2010, 06:34 PM

I'm running the die hard platinum now for about a year after my old red top gave up the ghost after 10 years of fairly hard use.

SeaBass44

03-18-2010, 06:38 PM

I'm running the die hard platinum now for about a year after my old red top gave up the ghost after 10 years of fairly hard use.

I bought 4 yellow tops last year
they are fine

Muddy Oval

03-18-2010, 06:39 PM

I run an Exide 34XCD in mine and so far I love it. I've had nothing but bad luck with Optima, including a total meltdown of one. Out of six, 4 blues and two reds, not one was reliable after one year and the warranty was bullshit. MAIL the batteries to have them checked? Yeah, that'll happen.

The Exide 34XCD cranks my V8 even in sub zero temps after sitting a long time. Long winching episodes are no problem- I am temporarily only running one battery now until I repair my second battery box and it's doing fine with just one.
The Sears Die Hard Platinum is the same as an Odyssey, however they tend to sit on the shelf a long time at Sears so watch the manufacture dates carefully. Several people have had issues with VERY old batteries being sold as new.

The autozone batteries tend to only last one season around here, we remove a lot of those. Interstate jumped the shark- their quality is piss poor now as is their warranty service. I wouldn't cross the street for a free Interstate pile of shit.

Pto

03-18-2010, 07:03 PM

The Sears Die Hard Platinum is the same as an Odyssey, however they tend to sit on the shelf a long time at Sears so watch the manufacture dates carefully. Several people have had issues with VERY old batteries being sold as new.

The Platinums are hard to find for me, within a reasonable date- but the good ones rock. The grey "SUV & Truck" ones seem to make it about 16 -18 months, and puke. Over 15 years, never had one Die hard live 4 years in any vehicle, and Ive had close to 40 in that time. Just make sure to note date of purchase, and plan to go warranty it @ 18-20 months - free replacement.

My timing worked out where in early May, just before the Memorial Day run, I'd go get 2 new batteries. @ Sears. And each fall on my birthday, I'd go again and do it again for my DD rigs. It gets cold up here tho, and when they sit, they don't seem to like it.

kitimatdude

03-18-2010, 07:51 PM

I run a huge CAT battery... 1800 CCA it laughs at the winch...

joshsbetterhalf

03-18-2010, 09:29 PM

We've ran a few different batteries in my fiancee's Jeep. He has a bad habit of leaving the GPS on overnight. Currently, have the cheapest battery he could find in it because it was a few days before payday. It's lasted awhile. Definitely gotten our money's worth out of it. Running an Optima Red Top in the Dodge right now. And a Diehard in my dad's Bronco. The Optima has outlasted any of the other batteries we've had. As soon as the other two kick the bucket, that's where we're going. But at the same time, if you don't consistently use the vehicle you're putting it in, I wouldn't suggest the Optima. Had a friend who had one in his truck, went on vacation for a couple weeks and the thing wouldn't start. Personally, I say Optima.

stretchedcj

03-18-2010, 09:39 PM

bottom line for me optima sucks. i used to run optima in everything i had jeep,truck, boat,ole ladies excursion and they shit out right after their 3yr free replacement. they are not the battery they were 5-10 yrs ago. i just spent over 400 for dual diehard platinums gel filled with a 4yr free replacement. always had good luck with the diehards, sears said they quit carrying optima because they wouldnt last. just my 2 cents.

billybob13

03-18-2010, 09:43 PM

for 2 years i've had a junky kragen battery, cheapest i could possibly find. i bought it to use temporarily in a pinch, and haven't seen the need to replace it yet.:laughing:
i've had better luck with this poverty battery than i've had with optimas.:smokin:
one of these days i'll spend over $100 on a nice one so people will think i wheel.:D

FORDTECHGURU

03-18-2010, 10:27 PM

svt150j49

03-19-2010, 12:32 AM

interesting read, i can vouch for the optimas built for market, i sold interstate batts in my shop and optimas, so i had the interstate guy look at one of my personal red tops for warranty, he noticed the part number and quickly said, no warranty, that was bought at costco dude, you will have to take it to costco, i cant do nothing with it...
fwiw, the interstate line as of 2 years ago was an excellent battery, never warrantied anything, took out alot of the yellow walmart stuff...

x2, all we use is interstate at work. Never had to warranty one yet. Well, execpt one that was dropped before it was delivered and was leaking. But, for the most part they seem to be good batteries. Napa stuff is supposed to be switching over to the same company that makes interstate batteries. :confused: The napa guys next door have been trying to sell us a rack of their stuff.

4x4junkie

03-19-2010, 06:09 PM

Still running my Delco Voyager deep cycles. The last ones lasted me 9 years. :smokin:

Rompn

03-19-2010, 09:27 PM

Had a dead battery in my 05' GMC Sierra and searched the forum for awhile to find a decent replacement. Came to the conclusion the Walmart Maxx line (yellow) was the best battery for how inexpensive it is compared to others. Besides, there's a Walmart around every corner if I ever need to use the warranty. + 1 for the Maxx line.

BossBuilt

03-20-2010, 07:55 AM

I run a huge CAT battery... 1800 CCA it laughs at the winch...

Do you have a pic of this? How much do they run?

kitimatdude

03-20-2010, 09:11 PM

Do you have a pic of this? How much do they run?

If I remember I'll take a pic tomorrow. I um... acquired mine... but similar batteries sell for about $200. They are heavy tho very heavy. I got mine at the back of my rig.

joblo

03-20-2010, 09:30 PM

just put an odyessy pc1200 in my sammy.
i havent ran it for very long but i like it so far, real compact size for the cranking amps.
my rig doesnt have alot of electronics though...starter,leds,suckdown winch,fuel pump,fan and cheapo radio head unit.

RedBullJeep

03-20-2010, 10:44 PM

kitimatdude

03-21-2010, 04:44 PM

Do you have a pic of this? How much do they run?

Ok took some pics
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee307/kitimatdude/DSCF1622.jpg
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee307/kitimatdude/DSCF1623.jpg
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee307/kitimatdude/DSCF1624.jpg
Yes my truck has a trunk, the floor is perforated stainless. The blazer tank is above the frame also sitting on perforated stainless.

mustange70

03-21-2010, 06:00 PM

if you have the cash, an odessy group 31 battery is frickin awesome, big cca's, and massive reserve capacity, otherwise a good group 31 battery meant for off highway use (ie ag. industry), should run you bout 100 bucks and will run circles around any optima, just don't let them go dead and freeze.

I used to run an optima red top in my race truck, and had an alternator that worked maybe 50% of the time, it would go dead really quick in racing conditions (mud bogs), as i've found red tops have fawk all for reserve capacity, and i'd always have to have it sitting on a charger at the races. I then switched to a good group 31 and I haven't looked back. I'll be running a dual system this year and it should be good for 2400+ CCA's and 4-500mins reserve capacity under full load.

BossBuilt

03-22-2010, 08:28 PM

Ok took some pics
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee307/kitimatdude/DSCF1622.jpg
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee307/kitimatdude/DSCF1623.jpg
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee307/kitimatdude/DSCF1624.jpg
Yes my truck has a trunk, the floor is perforated stainless. The blazer tank is above the frame also sitting on perforated stainless.

Please tell me thats not the positive terminal next to the fuel tank.:eek:

SeaBass44

03-22-2010, 08:31 PM

Please tell me thats not the positive terminal next to the fuel tank.:eek:

it's safe, see the ratchet strap mounting system:laughing::laughing::laughing:

Hottrod81

03-22-2010, 08:36 PM

Please tell me thats not the positive terminal next to the fuel tank.:eek:

:nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke:

Dookey

03-22-2010, 08:39 PM

it's safe, see the ratchet strap mounting system:laughing::laughing::laughing:

:laughing::laughing:

whiskey makin fool

03-22-2010, 08:42 PM

optima sucks...i have been thru 2 and then went with wal mart Maxx.

BossBuilt

03-22-2010, 08:51 PM

optima sucks...i have been thru 2 and then went with wal mart Maxx.how long you been running the max?

OptimaJim

03-24-2010, 08:17 AM

Wow! After reading about ten years worth of posts, it seems like there’s quite a bit of ground to cover. At least a few people saved me the trouble of dispelling the concrete myth. The truth is, the best place to store a battery is somewhere cool and dry. I’m sorry to see so many people in this thread were encouraged to use RedTops for winching. An appropriately-sized RedTop will offer plenty of cranking power, but deep-cycling applications, including winches, should always use YellowTops and the connections should always be made at the top posts.

Our 34M BlueTop is identical internally to our group 34 RedTop, although it does have additional top posts for marine applications. The 34M BlueTop is a starting battery and should not be used in deep cycle applications. All of our other BlueTops do have deep-cycle capability and can be used in such applications.

As for our manufacturing, we make all of our own batteries in our own facility. We never re-badge, re-spec or re-label them for specific retailers and our factory warranty is identical at every authorized retailer. Our production process has always been excellent, but we still look for ways to improve our quality and efficiency. We still use 99.99% pure, virgin lead and most of the “bad” batteries returned to us now are just deeply-discharged. As jeepmudder indicated, a deeply-discharged Optima can work just fine, when properly recharged.

As Motornoggin indicated, many other battery manufacturers are probably dealing with the same issue of deeply-discharged batteries. Some have decided to void the warranty on batteries discharged below 10 volts. We decided to try to educate consumers about proper battery care and maintenance. Most battery chargers will not charge any battery that has been discharged below 10.5 volts and most flooded batteries will not recover from such a deep state of discharge. Deeply-discharged Optimas can be recovered using the charging technique explained in this video- YouTube - Tech Tips 3: Recovering a Deeply Discharged Battery (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIoaL3DWWEg)

You don’t need to use a special charger to charge an Optima and we won’t void your warranty if you use a regular charger. However, Optima batteries are not “gel” batteries, so you should avoid using “gel” settings or “gel/AGM” settings.

Optima was acquired by Johnson Controls in 2000. Odyssey did not invent Optima batteries, nor did they own us at any time. Johnson Controls also owns 49% of Interstate and produces batteries for them, as well as many other retailers.

Our retailers handle warranty claims, so if you elect to purchase your battery from an online retailer, you may have to ship it back to them for warranty claims. You can view our warranty information here- http://www.optimabatteries.com/optima_products/warranty/

We do not try to confuse our customers with our own proprietary battery ratings. We use the same BCI numbers we always have, to allow for an “apples to apples” comparison. As some people have found out, our stated ratings do tend to be conservative- http://www.patrol4x4.com/forum/showpost.php?p=368016&postcount=8

Halogrinder is correct about parasitic draws being a common source of battery issues. A typical parasitic draw is about 25 milliamps. This video explains how to check for a parasitic draw and some other basic battery diagnostics- YouTube - Tech Tips 7: Does my battery need to be replaced? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yPlx4MBNRU)

Faulty ground wires are another common source of electrical issues, especially in vehicles that see off-road use. There is no such thing as a ground that is “too good” and one-wire alternators are especially sensitive to good, quality grounds. The most important key to long battery life, regardless of brand, is maintaining voltage of at least 12.4 volts at all times. If your vehicle only sees occasional use, it’s good practice to use a battery tender or maintainer. If that’s not possible the next best option is to disconnect your fully-charged battery when you store your vehicle and check it periodically, to make sure it maintains at least 12.4 volts. If it needs to be charged, do so with a battery charger. Relying on your alternator to recharge a deeply-discharged battery can lead to a cycle of dead batteries and jump-starts, until either the battery or alternator fails. If you have any battery-related questions, I’ll do my best to answer them.

Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.

CTD NUT

03-24-2010, 09:16 AM

You are saying a deep cycle yellow top is more appropriate for very high discharge rates like operating winches that could draw 400 amps? It seems thAT typically, deep cycle batteries do NOT have the ability to endure high discharge rates like without premature failure.

WTF-J

03-24-2010, 09:25 AM

....

Thanks for jumping in on this!

beyer05

03-24-2010, 09:42 AM

chevytruckzach

03-24-2010, 11:54 AM

BossBuilt

03-24-2010, 05:42 PM

Maybe I missed it, but is there truly a difference in quality from the Optima bought at Autozone (or wherever) compared to the one bought at Costco?

As for our manufacturing, we make all of our own batteries in our own facility. We never re-badge, re-spec or re-label them for specific retailers and our factory warranty is identical at every authorized retailer. Our production process has always been excellent, but we still look for ways to improve our quality and efficiency. We still use 99.99% pure, virgin lead and most of the “bad” batteries returned to us now are just deeply-discharged.

Muddy Oval

03-24-2010, 07:41 PM

Optima really needs to get their shit together. The Blue is the same as Red, just has different terminals? Really? Since when? Now I have to go fire up my old computer and find the email from Optima that explained how the blue and yellow were the same, but different from the red... which is what I based the purchase of four blues and two reds on. Doesn't matter now, they're all dead and gone well before the warranty expired. I'd rather slam my nuts in a drawer than buy another pile of shit Optima. Luckily, I've probably saved a hundred or so people from making that same mistake at work. Exide Purple Haze, Sears Platinum and Odyssey are all we will install on winch equipped vehicles.

Halogrinder

03-24-2010, 08:19 PM

As Motornoggin indicated, many other battery manufacturers are probably dealing with the same issue of deeply-discharged batteries. Some have decided to void the warranty on batteries discharged below 10 volts. We decided to try to educate consumers about proper battery care and maintenance. Most battery chargers will not charge any battery that has been discharged below 10.5 volts and most flooded batteries will not recover from such a deep state of discharge. Deeply-discharged Optimas can be recovered using the charging technique explained in this video- YouTube - Tech Tips 3: Recovering a Deeply Discharged Battery (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIoaL3DWWEg)

You don’t need to use a special charger to charge an Optima and we won’t void your warranty if you use a regular charger. However, Optima batteries are not “gel” batteries, so you should avoid using “gel” settings or “gel/AGM” settings.

Halogrinder is correct about parasitic draws being a common source of battery issues. A typical parasitic draw is about 25 milliamps. This video explains how to check for a parasitic draw and some other basic battery diagnostics- YouTube - Tech Tips 7: Does my battery need to be replaced? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yPlx4MBNRU)

Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.

Jim-

you say NOT to use "gel" or "gel/AGM" battery setting on battery chargers.
you say that a red top battery is NOT a "gel" or "AGM" battery, correct?
so what is it then? its a lead battery (wet?) that is "sealed"?

so then what you say here contridicts what the video says.
could you explain better?

so when charging your batteries, i have a bunch of battery chargers:
a 1 amp ching chong trickle manual charger
a 55amp snapon digital charger
a snapon branded shumaker power supply/charger/jump charger EEBC500
a midtronics 55amp power supply PSC550S
a deutronics power supply/battery charger. DBL1000

only my older snapon digital charger even gives me the option for sealed or wet batteries.

do any of these seem to be "out of the ordinary"? i charge wet cell and AGM batteries, including setting them into a 13.8-14V power supply with hardly any issues ever.

i primarily use the deutronics, due to the 50 amp power supply @ 14.2 volts.

do you ever have to worry about SoH or SoC with optimas? i had(have) a red top in my BMW M3, and after about a year, it has no CCA available any longer. i had to get it warrantied ..... it still wouldnt keep or hold a charge after charging it with my deutronic on BC/float mode.

my mA on my car was 10-20, verified by my midtronics inGEN-das flight recorder.

the BMW's that i work on routinely show an average of approximately 40 millivolts as a parasitic draw. in fact, it is within BMW's specs for most of our vehicles to be 40-50 mA. Does this pose, or show an issue with your batteries?

im still not sold on optimas, as i have also had issues with no relative hard loads or draws present on the car.

OTR

03-24-2010, 08:41 PM

Well Jim, you got balls for posting up here. I commend you for that. :flipoff2:
I dont usually get involved in these posts but since you brought it up and I havnt had luck with your batteries, Ill give it a shot...

My story.
Bought my first Optima (a red top) in 1999. This was a battery manufactured by your previous owner... Was it the "Gylling Group" or something like that ?

Anyway, had that battery in my Wagoneer for about 3-4 years and am happy to report that it started every time like it was new. When my yj needed a new battery I moved that original battery from the Wagoneer into it, and bought another new red top for the Wagoneer. The new one had an "Interstate" sticker on it. This was around 2003-2004.

The new one quit working over a weeks time in about 18 months. No changes were made to the vehicle. It took a week to get the place I bought it from to get authorized (by Interstate) to replace it. I was without a battery for that time.

The replacement also had an Interstate sticker on it, and lasted 13 months.

Neither of these batteries ever had a winch on them.

The original pre-Johnson battery lasted until early 2007 in the yj.

I went to Odyssey and havnt had a problem since. Ive had a pc1200 in the Wagoneer and even put a winch on the front a few years ago. No problems.

Im not the only one to have these problems with Optimas. Many people I know have had the same experiences with them. Not just e-friends here, but personal friends and wheeling buddies...

You've lost me as a customer. Sorry, but nothing is going to change that.

But for others here that are reading this, tell us if anything had changed in the batteries after Johnson bought Optima, and has anything changed in the last 5 years in whatever secret formula that gets poured into these things. I dont care how virgin your lead is, what about things like the mat, the electrolyte, manufacturing, quality control, etc...

Has anything changed that would increase the reliability of your batteries ?

k.

kitimatdude

03-25-2010, 10:53 AM

Please tell me thats not the positive terminal next to the fuel tank.:eek:
no it is not

apeters89

03-25-2010, 12:29 PM

Optima really needs to get their shit together....

Jim-
...
im still not sold on optimas, as i have also had issues with no relative hard loads or draws present on the car.

Well Jim, you got balls for posting up here. I commend you for that. :flipoff2:
I dont usually get involved in these posts but since you brought it up and I havnt had luck with your batteries,

Same story here. I've had WAY better luck with Walmart EverStart batteries than I have with the high dollar Optimas. I tell everyone I know to avoid them like the plague. The ONLY advantage I've found of an Optima over a standard Walmart battery is that it can be mounted in any orientation.

edit: and everyone and their brother makes a battery box for the optima battery.

matts88yj

03-25-2010, 02:36 PM

edit: and everyone and their brother makes a battery box for the optima battery.

I'm trying to get a few manufactures who make those battery boxes to possibly make some for the Odyssey batteries like the 1200 and 1500. Other than the Odyssey trays they make for their own batteries are there any others available? I would love one like the RuffStuff battery tray but for my Odyssey 1500.

Triaged

03-25-2010, 03:46 PM

I'm trying to get a few manufactures who make those battery boxes to possibly make some for the Odyssey batteries like the 1200 and 1500. Other than the Odyssey trays they make for their own batteries are there any others available? I would love one like the RuffStuff battery tray but for my Odyssey 1500.

Here is one I designed for an Odyssey 1200mj. I think they went overboard using F911 bolts and safety wire given the mil-spec locking nut plates they go into:shaking:
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e24/Triaged/Racing/1200mj.jpg

Roc Doc

03-25-2010, 04:10 PM

Our 34M BlueTop is identical internally to our group 34 RedTop, although it does have additional top posts for marine applications. The 34M BlueTop is a starting battery and should not be used in deep cycle applications. All of our other BlueTops do have deep-cycle capability and can be used in such applications.

Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.

Optima really needs to get their shit together. The Blue is the same as Red, just has different terminals? Really? Since when? Now I have to go fire up my old computer and find the email from Optima that explained how the blue and yellow were the same, but different from the red... which is what I based the purchase of four blues and two reds on.

Read the bold sections slowly and maybe you'll understand it better.

BossBuilt

03-26-2010, 06:12 PM

no it is notGood, I was worried for you..:D

msalaba

03-27-2010, 06:36 AM

2003 must have been the year of the battery on the Chinese calendar. My friends Bill, Rick and myself needed new batteries for the wheelers.

Bill has a early 80's based Bronco buggy. He went the cheap route with a Wal-mart yellow Maxx. He went through 5 since. 2 were not the battery's fault as he had a bad voltage regulator. (melted real nice) :shaking:

Rick has a 80's based Suburban buggy. He went with an Optima red top. He had to put a trickle charge on it every spring before wheeling season and it would be fine for the rest of the year. This battery would no longer hold charge in 2007. He replaced it with a Carquest AGM. He's replaced that battery twice since.

I have a CJ5. I bought an Exide Orbital red top from NAPA. (had a friend that worked there & got an employee discount iirc $90) I've trickle charged this 3 times since then and no other problems. The Jeep has been sitting in the shed since Sept. and started right up last weekend.

These are all strictly off-road rigs. We all have winches that are used every time we go out. As this is Minnesota, the wheeling season is short, generally May - Oct. Then they sit all winter in the cold untill wheeling season is about to start again.

I had an S10 DD and put a Die-Hard "off-road" battery in and had nothing but problems. iirc I replaced it 4 times under warranty. Replaced it with a factory Delco and had no problems for 5 years.

I think the moral of the story is some times you get lucky and sometimes you just get a lemon!

BTW- you can get Ag and Heavy Equipment batteries at Interstate. If you talk to them nice they'll let you into the warehouse to "see" what you need.

Halogrinder

03-27-2010, 08:17 AM

i think most of you guys are REALLY missing a HUGE part of the picture though.

we are ALL telling our own stories of problems, but no one has the same vehicle, charging system, driving style, electrical loads, weather or maintenance practices that are the same.

out of anyone in this thread, besides just throwing another battery into the vehicle, has anyone checked for say,

parasidic draw?
A/C ripple from the alternator?
charging state of the alternator?
(wet cell) specific gravity of the cells?
(wet cell) how about just checking the water?
has anyone who actually had a charging/battery problem attempted to diagnose the issue, rather than stick another new battery in it and hope for the best?

scenario:
after letting the truck sit for 2 months- say, the truck doesnt start....
so you jump the thing to get it to run. you drive it a while and you think "alternator will charge it good enough".

a day of wheeling, no winching just farting around and you go park it again.
you think its a peice of crap battery, when it could be just severely discharged due to the loads put on it, or the alternator not charging it fully.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
lets say you popped the hood the night before and checked the SoC. its 11.3 volts. thats a dead battery.
so you charge it over night with a smart charger that can charge a battery correctly and self regulate. the next morning you check the SoC again, and its 12.6 after taking the surface charge off of it.

go wheeling- i doubt your going to have an issue with that battery.

the problem is (what i had with my ford a few times) you go wheeling, you have to winch and you pull MASSIVE amounts of Amp Hours out of the battery doing so.

after winching, you dont drive the truck long enough to fully charge the battery back to 80% or better SoH. you're putting the battery in a position to have no choice but to fail the next time you want to drive it.

most alternators dont charge more than 60 or so amps, but thats not what it puts out ALL THE TIME, its just its maximum- and thats if its operating correctly. yea you can get 100 amp alternators and the like, but the example of my ford, it was a 60 amp one.

so maybe if you checked the SoC of the battery after wheeling, you could see if the battery is put up with a full charge vs putting it up with 20% charge.
it sounds dumb:
but can you expect a 50Ah/1000CCA battery(an optima red top) to be fully charged back up with only a few hours of an alternator putting 60 amps in; when you winched 50 feet, at 200 amps for 10 minutes? dont be suprised a heavy winching session will cause a battery to be charged over night to be fully back up to snuff.

the cars i work on have a highly sophisticated charging system. normally they have a 90Ah 800CCA AGM battery (almost double what an optima red top has for Ah). they use Bus communication to the alternator and battery cables that the engine computer regulates and determines charging algorithms. Inteligent battery cables that measure SoH and SoC during/while/after starting/driving/sitting. it watches for parasidic draws while sitting, and shuts off the electrical system to make sure the car starts the next morning. VERY smart systems. 120 amp alternators that are water cooled :eek:

even with all this technology, you still cant keep a battery fully charged if you dont drive it and allow it to charge the battery fully.

i work down town houston at a BMW dealership..... the people who work midtown and work downtown 5 miles away ALWAYS have issues with keeping batteries in their cars.

" i drive a 60,000 dollar BMW, WTF is wrong with my @#(%@#% car? fawking thing doesnt start. again."

well when you drive less than 3 miles the majority of the time (the car logs your driving distance per key cycle), the battery is going to loose the battle. starting the car, seat heaters, defrosters, a whole bunch of other electrical loads and you give the car less than 10 minutes to recover say, 20Ah of battery consumption? its not going to work.

i've seen 100+ short trips under 3 miles within the last 2 weeks of use :eek:
how do you expect a battery to survive that?

tell a person who owns a 2009 X6 twin turbo V8 that cost him 90,000 bucks that he needs to put a trickle charger on his car every night :laughing: its not a fun time :laughing:

most batteries i see last about 4-5 years. past that your on borrowed time and luck. sulfated plates, internal resistance and just plain use/wear/tear keeps a battery from surviving much longer than that. you dont expect a cell phone battery or a laptop battery to be just like the day you bought it 4-5 years later, do you? thats a crude comparison, but you understand.....

in short- you cant expect a battery to just be an endless supply of power. you have to keep and maintain the power- or you wont have any when you need it :D

BossBuilt

03-27-2010, 04:35 PM

SeaBass44

03-28-2010, 09:35 AM

Halogrinder

03-28-2010, 07:01 PM

:( sorry

SeaBass44

03-28-2010, 07:04 PM

:( sorry

no problem, most ignore the facts:p

Nathan@XSPower

03-29-2010, 07:47 AM

XS Power Batteries - D925

http://4xspower.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/D925-150x150.jpg

The purest lead (which is the heart of the battery) makes this thing a performer. So much so that it lasted through an incredible winching...I'll be posting the full story elsewhere but let's just say, this battery WORKS!!!

The D925 packs a punch for sure. The 99.999% pure lead infused with pure tin allow the plates to be thinner in our batteries, which makes them more resistant to abuse. This also allows our batteries to be used in any application. The D925 can be used as a starting battery as well as a secondary battery or a "deep cycle" battery.

Glad they worked out for you Dustin, and can't wait to see the rest of the write up!!

OptimaJim

03-29-2010, 08:41 AM

Halogrinder, thank you so much for posting that information. I wish it were posted on every message board I visit. Please give my best to Mr. Cavan and know that at least one of your salespeople doesn't let any customer off the lot, without reminding them that they need to drive their cars for 20-25 minutes, to replace the energy used to start them.

All Optima batteries are AGM (absorbed glass mat) lead-acid batteries. The “gel” or combined “gel/AGM” settings on chargers should be avoided, as gel batteries are charged at a lower voltage than flooded or AGM batteries, and using a gel setting will not fully charge your battery. AGM batteries are considered “dry,” while traditional flooded batteries are considered “wet.”

Although our batteries are sealed, it is important that any lead-acid battery has proper ventilation. ALL lead-acid batteries can vent gas. Traditional wet batteries do this immediately when recharged, since they are not sealed. Sealed lead-acid batteries like Optimas and all other “dry cell” AGM batteries have safety release valves that should only vent if they are seriously overcharged.

Your chargers all look fairly typical for most shops. However, for regular charging, we recommend a maximum of 10 amps, 13.8-15.0 volts. For float charging, we recommend a 1 amp max, 13.2-13.8 volts. The 4 amp setting on your EEBC500 would work fine, but I’d avoid using any settings above 10 amps on that charger or any of the others.

I’m not sure that you should be concerned with SoH or SoC of an Optima, more than any other battery. Without delving into Peukert’s Law and discussing how the constant varies according to the age of the battery, AGM batteries are generally more resilient to discharging and cycling, than flooded batteries.

Generally speaking, a 50 milliamp draw doesn’t pose any more of an issue for our batteries than any others. However, it’s important to keep in mind that as you mentioned, any combination of a 50 milliamp draw for extended periods of time and driving habits that don’t allow the alternator enough time to replace the energy that was used to start the engine can eventually discharge and shorten the life of any battery.

CTD NUT, a YellowTop is more appropriate for winching applications, than a RedTop.

beyer05, there is no difference in the quality of an Optima purchased at any of our retailers. Please note though, the policy of most retailers is to only provide warranty service for what they have sold, so you will usually need to go to back to your original retailer for warranty service.

Muddy Oval, I apologize if my initial post was confusing for you, that certainly wasn’t my intent. To explain it a different way, all of our starting batteries can easily be identified by their dark gray cases. This would include all RedTops and the 34M BlueTop. All of our dual-purpose, deep-cycle/starting batteries can be identified by their light gray cases. This would include all of our YellowTops and group D27M, D34M and D31M BlueTops. Our dual-purpose, deep-cycle/starting batteries also have a “D” in front of their group size.

OTR (and others), I’m sorry our batteries didn’t work out for you. While I understand that some companies will cut corners for a variety of reasons, that’s just not how we operate. We will always look for ways to improve our batteries and the processes involved in making them, but not if it compromises the quality of the end product. If we weren’t making improvements that we felt increased reliability, we wouldn’t have increased the free replacement warranty period on our batteries.

I’d be happy to answer any other battery-related questions anyone might have, but feel free to PM me if you feel asking in the thread would deviate from the original question.

Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.facebook.com/optimabatteries

Nathan@XSPower

04-02-2010, 09:30 AM

Who's got the biggest baddest battery around? <IMG SRC="smilies/beer.gif" border="0">

I will put our battery up against any battery out there. Heck if someone wants to send in a battery I will throw it on our battery dyno and test it side by side with our battery any day. I will post up the results and cover the shipping back to you. There is a reason we have a 3 year (not pro-rated) warranty on our batteries, and thats because the quality is second to none!

Can our batteries compete with a off the shelf flooded battery? It will blow it away as far as power goes, but no we can not compare when it comes to cost. Flooded batteries are much cheaper to produce than AGM batteries, but you get what you pay for. We use 99.999% pure lead infused with pure tin allow which allows the lead plates in the battery to be thinner. This makes them more resistant to abuse and gives them the power that sets them apart from other batteries. If you want a top performing battery, then check out www.4xspower.com. If you just want a cheap battery then go get a flooded battery. Our batteries are not for everyone.

If a D925 can last for 3+ hrs winching out a hauler (see post above from the Red Bull team), then just think what our Group 34 (S3400/D3400) can do!!

Halogrinder

04-02-2010, 09:48 AM

optimajim- small world you know Ken- he's a great guy, i've known him for 10 years and work on his cars as well :laughing:

Nathan,

the difference between you and optimajim, is he is defending/explaining the battery his company is producing to people who have already purchased them (i say that to the majority of the thread posts), while your trying to jump in on the thread by advertising/pimping your product.

get ya a yellow star, support the board, then have at it ;)

RedBullJeep

04-02-2010, 01:32 PM

Halo...I thought this was a thread about who's got the best battery, not who needs to defend their battery. If you follow the title of the thread, Nathan is in his place by coming on and saying he'll put battery to battery in specs as well as mentioning why his battery is quality. Dunno what you've got against that but hey, whatever floats your boat, I think he's fine under the rules of PBB.

And FYI, I don't know who Nathan is nor did I direct anyone from XS Power that this thread was even here.

Halogrinder

04-02-2010, 05:49 PM

ErikB

04-02-2010, 10:53 PM

Not just you. xs power's post seemed more like pimping/advertising than answering questions and adding tech to me too.

Travis Waldher

04-03-2010, 08:26 AM

RedBullJeep

04-03-2010, 09:34 AM

The D925 packs a punch for sure.
Kindof a pimp but it's his first sentence in here.

The 99.999% pure lead infused with pure tin allow the plates to be thinner in our batteries, which makes them more resistant to abuse.
Tech

This also allows our batteries to be used in any application. The D925 can be used as a starting battery as well as a secondary battery or a "deep cycle" battery.
pseudo tech - following up the tech with an application.

I will put our battery up against any battery out there. Heck if someone wants to send in a battery I will throw it on our battery dyno and test it side by side with our battery any day. I will post up the results and cover the shipping back to you.
Statement of opinion.

There is a reason we have a 3 year (not pro-rated) warranty on our batteries, and thats because the quality is second to none!

pimp

Can our batteries compete with a off the shelf flooded battery? It will blow it away as far as power goes, but no we can not compare when it comes to cost. Flooded batteries are much cheaper to produce than AGM batteries, but you get what you pay for.
statement of facts - honesty.

We use 99.999% pure lead infused with pure tin allow which allows the lead plates in the battery to be thinner. This makes them more resistant to abuse and gives them the power that sets them apart from other batteries.
Repetition of something he already said in his first post.

If you want a top performing battery, then check out www.4xspower.com. If you just want a cheap battery then go get a flooded battery. Our batteries are not for everyone.

pimping

Instead of bitching at him for pimping, recognize he has just stated some facts and welcome him to Pirate by asking him for more tech.

Halogrinder

04-03-2010, 09:51 AM

:rolleyes: didnt i say that? get a yellow star and have at it!

mrblaine

04-03-2010, 10:23 AM

People's knowledge hasn't changed, but their experience with the product has.
Too many stories of crap optimas out there to be misuse alone.

Nothing changes the fact that your batteries of today can't hold a candle to your batteries of yesterday.

You guys cut corners either in design, material, process or all three. You'de know this if you actually listened to your LONG TIME customers and ex-customers.

I have to agree. I don't know what happened or how, but the story on any "best" battery thread on any board is always the same.

"I've had my Optimas for 10 years and they're awesome. Killed 'em dead many times and they always come back"

Immediately followed by 5 guys lamenting their recent (less than 3-4 years) purchases and how fast the Optima turned to junk needing replacement.

That scenario is repeated endlessly on the boards and I know personally of many folks with the same issues.

ErikB

04-03-2010, 12:22 PM

There is a thread over in the Toy section where optimajim first jumped on the site:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=855265&page=2&highlight=optimajim

To me (reading between the lines), he implied that when they moved production to Mexico, their quality initially went down, and it has since improved as they've worked the bugs out of the brand new facility.

So maybe they are back up to par. Only time will be able to tell if they can also fix their severly tarnished image...

OptimaJim

04-05-2010, 06:03 AM

Hi Erik, the initial quality at our new facility has always been excellent and continues to improve. We wouldn’t start production and ship batteries just for the sake of doing it, unless all the quality standards from our previous facility were either met or exceeded. I have two of the first RedTops to come out of that facility in my Excursion. They were shipped to me and sat outside my house for two days, while we had a cold snap that sent temperatures near -20F. When I returned home, I brought the batteries in the house overnight and installed them the next day and they’ve been fine ever since.

Travis, I’m glad to hear our YellowTops performed so well for you and I’m sorry to hear our RedTop didn’t meet your expectations. RedTops are great starting batteries and an appropriately-sized RedTop will provide plenty of cranking power. However, it is not designed for deep-cycle applications, like the winching you described.

Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.facebook.com/optimabatteries

Halogrinder

04-05-2010, 07:12 AM

would running a red top for starting/engine operation and having a yellow top for winching (using a power isolater) be the best way for that situation?

if you only had room for ONE battery, which most people have only that option, what would be the BEST battery you offer for a dual purpose battery? my ford only had one battery and i winched the hell out of it as well (walmart deep cycle marine battery) with nary an issue. my situation was where i wheeled was right behind the house, and if i had a winch session to get myself unstuck from the mud, i would have to recharge it overnight, since it would only be a mile or so back to the house from where the trail was.

Nathan@XSPower

04-05-2010, 08:37 AM

:rolleyes: didnt i say that? get a yellow star and have at it!

Trust me if I had the powers to do it I would, but unfortunately there is a paper process and I have everything in the works. Hope to be yellow star'd before to long.

Sorry if I was pimping. Didn't mean it that way. Just trying to get some educational info out there to let everyone know there are other options if some one was looking.

Nathan@XSPower

04-05-2010, 08:41 AM

OptimaJim

04-06-2010, 08:54 AM

would running a red top for starting/engine operation and having a yellow top for winching (using a power isolater) be the best way for that situation?

Yes, that would be your best option. If you only have room for one battery and you do plan on winching, running a big stereo or anything else that might significantly drain a battery, a YellowTop is recommended over a RedTop.

Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.facebook.com/optimabatteries

Travis Waldher

04-06-2010, 09:37 AM

nat_ster

04-06-2010, 09:54 AM

Nothing good to say about OPTIMA Batteries here.

Have had three of them in the last two years. All had internal problems from new. Two had internal shorts, the other just would not fully charge.

I live in the bush, hence why I bout OPTIMA Batteries. They all failed me, now I'm back to using lead acid. Where I am warranty's don't do me any good. Takes month's just to get crap back.

So to the OPTIMA Batteries rep I saw on here. You say the quality of the new batch Batteries is where it should be. I sure hope so. I have three lead weights sitting here that unforchantly I can't do anything with except return for warranty. I would much rather get my money back and buy something better.

Nat

89breaker

04-06-2010, 11:31 AM

Here is my story.

Optima specific:
I had two yellow optimas in a '89 YJ with the standard package (2,500 watt stereo, winch, hi-amp alternator, etc.) that lasted several complete discharge/charge abuse cycles (no start power left) for about 6 years. Vehicle was in SE entire period.

They finally gave up the ghost (6 years is good in my book) and were replaced with same batteries that lasted less than a year...you do the math as my wallet hurts.

Vehicle was a DD for this entire period with an average commute of 15-20 mins. plus around town driving. Batteries managed by a battery manager from Wrangler Ultimate power company so they are separate with starting power on one and accesories on the other.

I replaced them with two regular batteries from advanced auto for half the price with same warranty. Jeep is still going to get a maintainer (Schumacker 1.5ma) for added measure.

General tech:
My truck (diesel F250) has killed 6 batteries (OEM package is 2) and 3 alternators in 3 years but the damn thing doesn't even have a winch...just an OBA for the bags. 4 batteries and an alternaor in the SE and 2 batteries and an ALT in AK.

I finally added a schumacker maintainer (1.5A) that is on a timer and the truck starts a lot easier. I also don't have to worry about starting it everyday to keep a charge up here in Alaska. For 2 years truck was in SE and it is now in AK and will be in SW by next year.

All accessories on both vehicles are isolated, switched, and fused so there is no draw but OEM (less than 13ma) when key is off.

Lesson for me:
-Optima quality is off.
-DD vehicles with less than 30 minute commute need a maintainer.
-My own research tells me batteries are made for warm or cold climates (might or might not be true) so I may have killed truck batteries just by moving from SE (high humidity & summer heat) to AK (zero humidity and -50).
-I already knew alternators weren't designed to CHARGE only MAINTAIN but a lot of folks I talk to don't know this.
-Don't forget water levels.

OptimaJim

04-07-2010, 07:54 AM

Hi Travis, whether you say “cranking” or “starting” in relation to turning over a vehicle’s engine, it’s basically the same thing. The difference you mentioned of sustained high amperage draw is significant, which is why we always recommend a YellowTop for such applications. A YellowTop is really a dual-purpose battery, as an appropriately-sized YellowTop will offer plenty of cranking/starting power, but also offer the reserve capacity and deep-cycling capability needed for winches and other such applications.

The chemistry of the battery itself is different for RedTops and YellowTops. That’s why a D35 YellowTop will weigh about five pounds more than a group 35 RedTop, even though the external dimensions of the respective batteries are identical. The reserve capacity (and deep-cycling capability) of the YellowTop is better than the RedTop, but that comes at the expense of some cranking amps, where the RedTop has an advantage. That’s why if someone has a winch and they only have space for one battery, we recommend a YellowTop that has enough cranking/starting power, while also being suitable for winching.

Nat, I’m sorry to hear about the problems you had with our batteries. Many of our batteries that are thought to be “bad” are just deeply-discharged and can often be recharged when using the technique described in this video- YouTube - Tech Tips 3: Recovering a Deeply Discharged Battery (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIoaL3DWWEg)

If your batteries cannot be recharged, they should all be covered under warranty, which I understand can be an aggravating process for you, because of where you live. You didn’t mention whether you had RedTops or YellowTops, but I should mention that fully-charged YellowTops are only protected from freezing to -30F and fully-charged RedTops are only protected from freezing to -50F. If your batteries are routinely in environments that are colder than that, you really should have a battery warmer, if you don’t already. If your battery freezes at temperatures warmer than those listed, it was probably not fully-charged and should be defrosted and checked for cracking, prior to charging.

89breaker, if your batteries failed within a year, they also should be fully-covered under our warranty. If your batteries are routinely subjected to extremely cold temperatures, you should probably have a battery warmer as well.

Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.

Travis Waldher

04-07-2010, 01:32 PM

Yes, the yellow top has less cranking amps, but it's enough to power a winch which is going to be less than any starter I have heard of.

So, why even recommend a red top for starting if you have room for two batteries? Two yellow tops would really be the way to go so you can safely tie them together if you want. Unless budget is a concern.

I'de still like to see Optima address the quality concerns of the consumers, such as the ones I brought up.

Halogrinder

04-07-2010, 03:39 PM

a winch will pull just as many or more than a starter in most cases.

BossBuilt

04-07-2010, 07:21 PM

YellowTop is better than the RedTop, but that comes at the expense of some cranking amps, where the RedTop has an advantage.

I understand the advantages of a yellow top .....But,when should one be concerned about the need for cranking amps???I avoided the yellow top for this reason but don't have a clue if the yellow would have been a disadvantage or not.

FYI I've been running a red top and Odyssey (dual) no isolation 5 years now.High output alt. Have done some serious winching, only issue has been a side post melt down on the optima ,lesson learned.

OptimaJim

04-08-2010, 05:42 AM

Travis Waldher

04-08-2010, 08:12 AM

Hi Travis, cost is a concern for some folks and if they are running isolated batteries, a RedTop for starting and a YellowTop for winching is a cheaper option. Dual YellowTops in a parallel configuration offers more versatility, but that comes at a higher price. Ultimately, each consumer will have to weigh the options and decide what is best for them.

We are doing our best to address the concerns folks have about our batteries, but a lot of the issues we see now are related to mis-use and mis-application. Our defect rate has always been low and continues to improve. It has gotten to the point now, where pro-actively educating consumers about proper battery usage and maintenance is viewed as the next logical step in this process. So, if you plan on winching, choose a YellowTop instead of a RedTop.

BossBuilt, cranking amps allow a consumer to compare the starting power of batteries, without having to install them. We always recommend making sure a replacement battery either equals or exceeds the specs of the OEM battery on stock applications. Modified engines may require additional cranking amps, above and beyond what the OEM battery offers. Someone may like the size, weight or price of a given battery, but if it doesn’t offer enough cranking amps for their specific application, it’s probably not a good choice. Rated cranking amps also give consumers a baseline for battery health. If a battery is rated at 1000 cranking amps, but tests significantly lower than that, it may be an indication that the battery needs to be replaced.

Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.facebook.com/optimabatteries

If two yellow tops in parallel are a better solution, you should be saying that. By the time you buy an isolater, cables, etc. to wire it up you are pushing the cost of two yellow tops anyway.

As for addressing concerns. I seriously doubt mis-use and mis-application have changed. Your products lived up to that a meer 10 years ago, then somewhere around 4-5 years ago they ceased being able to put up with the "abuse".

Ever consider your defect rate being low is due to how much trouble it can be to get a battery RMA'd? A lot of people will just go get another one and "chuck" the old.

Your declining defect rate could be a sign of customer dissatisfaction. For example, I have a red top that was crap from day 1. I just didn't discover it until a year later when I went to winch and the battery didn't have the capacity to handle a very light winching job. It could start an engine but that was about it. This was discovered the same time all the battery complaints on boards started rolling in. I never RMA'd it - why waste my time - why risk being stuck on the trail with another new but dead Optima.

What replaced that Optima? A Walmart Everstart - it's been living under that "abusive" hood just fine for a few years now. Doing the job the red top couldn't.

In my opinion, given Optimas long earned history of quality; putting most of these fairly recent problems back on the customers is being disingenuous and will only serve to push more customers away.

As a representative of Optima, you should be asking yourself why in most threads about what battery is best, Optima is no longer at the top of the list as "the" battery to get, when a mere 10 years ago it was.

wv85bronco

04-08-2010, 10:16 AM

fwiw ...

6 years ago i set up my truck to pull in the stock diesel class at some local fairs ...

to qualify for the street class the rear suspension had to be stock ...

i removed the factory rear lift block and doubled the stock springs ... nice and neatly tapered ... "stock" enough for the local pulls around here

at that time replaced the dana 70 with a cab and chassis 80 ...

so doubled springs and dual wheels made for a rough assed ride ...

in order to smooth the ride a little i mounted my batteries in the rear ...

rough ride has resulted in the following:

Wal-Mart Everstarts lasted a year and started leaking ...
replace under warranty one year later started leaking again, showed wally world manager the acid in the bed of my truck and he refunded my money ...

bought two big napa industrial batteries ...
one year later they started leaking ...
guys at napa said it was a fluke and warrantied two more ...
one year later i got my money back on them also ...

the two redtops that i have in there now have two years on them now and have been perfect ...

used for their intended purpose i've had no problems ...

never understood why anyone would by a red top and plan on winching with it ...

mrblaine

04-08-2010, 11:37 AM

never understood why anyone would by a red top and plan on winching with it ...

I don't know, maybe because there's thousands of rigs with winches and stock batteries that winch all the time without hurting a thing. Unless you're trying to say the stock batteries are also deep cycle instead of just starting batteries.

Personally I've never understood Optima being the ONLY battery company that does not recommend one of their products if you use it to winch.

The only time I recommend an Optima is if someone can't afford a real battery that's non spillable and has a Costco near them so when it dies they can use their pretty much no questions asked exhange policy.

OptimaJim

04-09-2010, 05:20 AM

CTD NUT

04-09-2010, 05:39 AM

I guess I still don't understand. It is one thing to say that people aren't properly maintaining their batteries, they don't know how to charge them or recover them from a deep discharge and that the automotive world has placed higher demands on electrical systems today BUT none of that explains why many people here have experienced a disproportionally high rate of Optima battery failures and the problem is permanently fixed by simply replacing the Optima with something else. I have experienced this time after time among friends and read the same thing over and over on Pirate: Optima fails suddenly and very prematurely, replaced Optima with a different battery and no more problems. If everyone sucks at maintaining their batteries properly, how is it that other non-Optima batteries live long lives performing flawlessly in the very same applications? Seriously? Why? I wouldn't be harping on this if I haven't seen and heard the same damn thing over and over again. OptimaJim says everything is fine and Optima batteries are awesome...but yet real world user experience has clearly demonstrated an ongoing trend that they are not. So, why is that?

Halogrinder

04-09-2010, 06:24 AM

fantastic post.

nat_ster

04-09-2010, 02:05 PM

OptimaJim thanks for the youtube link. Will give that a try.

What are the thoughts on running blue tops under the hood?

Nat

Travis Waldher

04-09-2010, 06:26 PM

Travis, there have actually been quite a few significant changes in the automotive world over the last ten years, as vehicles have become increasingly computerized and the aftermarket has offered an even wider array of accessories. Cell phone use has exploded and ten years ago, almost no one had a GPS system in their vehicle. Virtually every other aftermarket accessory has gotten bigger and more powerful. People are adding more lights, more speakers, more TVs, better alarms, etc… All of those accessories place additional demands on electrical systems and many of them will slowly discharge batteries that only see occasional use.

1) i've seen these problems in nearly 20 year old vehicles.

2) the battery problems went away the minute the optima was yanked and a different brand battery was put in.

You raise a valid question about whether our return rate is declining, because people don’t want to deal with the hassle of returning or exchanging a product and would rather take the hit in their wallet and buy another brand. Another possible factor is that some opportunistic people may be picking up on the fact that uneducated consumers may be returning discharged batteries that work just fine, when properly recharged.

All authorized Optima retailers are supposed to ship all returned batteries back to us for tear-down and analysis, but not all of our batteries are returned or exchanged at authorized Optima retailers. We routinely come across people selling used Optima batteries. In fact, there’s an active thread on this board doing just that. We do not approve of these sales and do not warranty these batteries, but once they are in the hands of consumers and non-authorized sellers, there is little we can do about it, other than to make sure they are not mis-represented as having any factory warranty coverage.

If the batteries are still good (and most are), it’s a pretty good deal for the person who buys a used Optima at a fraction of the price. It’s an even better deal for the person who took in the returned Optima. They may get to sell someone a brand-new battery at full price and may even charge the customer for taking the Optima off their hands, only to turn around and sell it to someone else.

This situation is not totally unique to Optima, but because of the volume of batteries we sell, it’s more common to hear of it with our batteries. Wv85bronco, I’m glad to hear your RedTops are getting the job done.

Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.facebook.com/optimabatteries

Why would I keep recharging a battery in hopes that it will one day live up to even a walmart battery?

Want another case?

I have two yellow tops purchased around 2001, about 1 year apart from eachother. They lived in my jeep for 7 or so years, being drained to nothing several times. Winching near winch stalling loads, never complaining, always bouncing back. Those now 9 year old batteries are still powering a travel trailer.

I have first hand experience with two red tops purchased circa 2007 give or take a year.

Vehicle 1: a stock 97 TJ drivetrain with stock grade accessories. Replaced a 10 year old OEM battery, and one year later discovered it could not produce the amps to winch. it couldn't compete with a 10 year old battery! I then replaced red top with walmart battery and the winching problems went away. That walmart battery is still living strong 3 years later.

Vehicle 2: a stock 93 cherokee drivetrain with stock grade accessories. Winching was weak and you couldn't leave the stereo on for 45 minutes without the vehicle needing a jump start. The red top in this vehicle was only a couple years old. The vehicle that jumped it at the drive-in was sporting a 7 or so year old OEM battery in an accessory loaded 2000 durango, that fired up just fine after running the stereo for 60 minutes.

I told the owner to just swap out the red top for anything else. He did and his problems went away.

How much is it going to take for you to admit that Optima is not what it used to be? How many stories of people yanking an optima, changing nothing else, and putting in any other brand to have their issues go away will it take?

I would go back to Optima if i had any reason to believe that the company has learned the error of their ways and could give me a date code to look for so I could be sure to get a heritage quality battery. But, I'm just not seeing that and you seem to be intent on ignoring customer's experiences, instead blaming all the problems on everything but the batteries. Even when nothing else changes.

JohnnyJ

04-09-2010, 07:31 PM

mrblaine

04-09-2010, 08:20 PM

How much is it going to take for you to admit that Optima is not what it used to be? How many stories of people yanking an optima, changing nothing else, and putting in any other brand to have their issues go away will it take?

Give it up Travis. It's not like we all woke up one day and decided we didn't like Optima any more. We learned through experience why not to like them and the only one who seems to be missing that point is the one who is going to keep to the company party line no matter what.

It's akin to asking K&N if their filters suck. What do you think they are going to say?

Travis Waldher

04-09-2010, 09:17 PM

Give it up Travis. It's not like we all woke up one day and decided we didn't like Optima any more. We learned through experience why not to like them and the only one who seems to be missing that point is the one who is going to keep to the company party line no matter what.

It's akin to asking K&N if their filters suck. What do you think they are going to say?

I actually gave up a while ago. I only continued as far as I have to give other people searching for optima info a chance to see Optima's response to the issues we as users have seen since is the first we've had a customer rep in a thread that I can recall.

I was kinda hoping Optima would be stand up about the issues. Maybe say they had some issues and addressed them, or even say that they hadn't heard of these problems but want more information. But, I was expecting the response I have gotten thus far.

mrblaine

04-09-2010, 11:02 PM

Maybe say they had some issues and addressed them, or even say that they hadn't heard of these problems but want more information. But, I was expecting the response I have gotten thus far.

Scuttlebutt at some point awhile back was there was a strike at the manufacturing plant or one of the associated plants during which and for some time thereafter, QC went to hell in a handbasket which was blamed for a bunch of the failures.

IIRC, that story was posted up by either a rep or store manager. I'm too lazy to dig it up, so some of the points may be fuzzy, but that was the gist, or it just may have been something posted to explain.

Something changed. I don't know what or where, but the Optima of today is not the Optima of yesteryear and not for the better.

DWT

04-10-2010, 01:27 AM

Something changed. I don't know what or where, but the Optima of today is not the Optima of yesteryear and not for the better.

That sums up all the chit chat and associated bs rather well.

I have a yellow top I stole from my wife that is almost 8 years old and it still runs my ridiculous stereo in the wheeler, with it's disco lights and bs. I can run it till the amps shut off let it chill for a few and the truck will still start to recharge the battery. It runs the winch like a champ too.

I've had red tops that I bought about 5 years ago that worked great for a year or so then the first time I drained them to the point the truck wouldn't start with the stereo or by leaving the electric fan on a bit too long they wouldn't hold a charge for very long and would quickly go bad.

Plain and simple the billy bad ass Optima battery of about a decade ago just plain sucks today. I need starting batteries for my diesel and a battery for my rv so I'm really weighing my options heavily before I plunk down that much cash on batteries this time.

Travis Waldher

04-10-2010, 07:41 AM

There's a couple options on this thread. The two I've been considering now days are Walmart and odysee.

mrblaine

04-10-2010, 08:14 AM

I need starting batteries for my diesel and a battery for my rv so I'm really weighing my options heavily before I plunk down that much cash on batteries this time.

My tow rig is the one vehicle I own that is 100 percent stock and I leave it that way because I want it as reliable as possible and I know if I mess with it, whatever I mess with will be the part that strands me on the road somewhere when I least need it to happen. That said, it's coming up on about 5 years old now and it won't be long before it needs batteries. When it does, I'm getting the Sears Platinum Die Hard. I've had great success with Odyssey in my trail rig and the Sears warranty rules should I ever need it.

When I say great success, I mean that I leave the rig parked throughout the non wheeling part of my year which is typically from May to Nov and it's never needed a jump start, but I really should put a Tender on it one of these days. :laughing:

Travis Waldher

04-10-2010, 08:18 AM

mrblaine

04-10-2010, 08:21 AM

I need starting batteries for my diesel and a battery for my rv so I'm really weighing my options heavily before I plunk down that much cash on batteries this time.

Sorry I missed the RV part. House or starting? I run Lifelines in the camper. I had a few issues with the first pair because I mounted them laying on their side (it's allowed) and they weeped a bit of electrolyte around the terminals. Called Lifeline and they related that at some point, their QC slipped a bit and the gluing process for the tops had an issue which doesn't show up until the batteries are mounted the way I did them.

I sent them a picture of the problem and the numbers from the sides of the cases. I had a new pair of 6v 220 ah batteries shipped to me and sitting on my porch the next day. There's a company that fully gets customer service.

I asked them what to do with the old ones. They told me if I had an application for them where they could operate upright, to keep them and use them.

mrblaine

04-10-2010, 08:24 AM

FWIW: I've had the same experience with the Walmart everstart, their highest end battery.

My Jeep can sit for 6+ months without starting. Go out, it fires up with ease every time.

I went to that battery over the other companies because I could find a walmart everywhere, the free replacement was 3 years and I think the pro-rate was up to 8 years.

I'll take a look at them. Money is tighter than it used to be and the Platinums x 2 will be a bit hard to swallow depending. If they leave me walking, I'm gonna come hunt you down. :flipoff2:

Travis Waldher

04-10-2010, 08:46 AM

I'll take a look at them. Money is tighter than it used to be and the Platinums x 2 will be a bit hard to swallow depending. If they leave me walking, I'm gonna come hunt you down. :flipoff2:

I haven't had a chance to really abuse them well with a winch yet. But for the daily driver it's been 2-3 years now and I'm happy, as well as the jeep that sits alot.

My wife's jeep sat for a long time and the battery ran down, but I have a drain somewhere I need to find. I had to leave in a hurry so I hit it hard with a charger on "start" mode (75A) and jumped from another vehicle. Got the jeep to start, battery started better with each round of running during the last week and is holding a charge.

Actually putting it on a charger this weekend to top it off properly and then check the levels.

I went with those because of money and previous bad experience with some other brands (optima and interstate). Did a lot of searching, couldn't really find any complaints about them, and since I had to buy 4 batteries for 3 vehicles...

DWT

04-10-2010, 09:23 AM

Sorry I missed the RV part. House or starting?

What I call an R/V I guess technically is a recreational vehicle but a bit different... It's an 11" pop up camper mounted on the upper deck of my 40" 5th wheel camp trailer converted to flat bed crawler hauler. :D

I need a battery to run the lights in the popup and to work to activate the brakes if the breakaway is activated etc. I'll also have work lights mounted in the deck facing up when it's all said and done so a decent reserve to run them would be great.

Motornoggin has quoted me for dual 6 volts and I'd love to go that way but at this point in time I can't justify the cost vs benefit of that setup. Same with the tow pig, I don't leave anything stock including charging systems, it all gets upgraded with bigger better wiring and a higher amperage alternator when at all possible.

I'll head to wally world and check out their batteries, I carry a sears jumper box so if a wally world battery pukes at least there will be a 24 hour one near so I can jump my junk and take it back to them. :laughing:

mrblaine

04-10-2010, 12:00 PM

Motornoggin has quoted me for dual 6 volts and I'd love to go that way but at this point in time I can't justify the cost vs benefit of that setup.

Don't believe all the BS about 2-12's versus 2-6's. Basically it boils down to a slightly higher amount of AH in the same footprint if you have the height to install them. With today's good deep cycle 12's, it's all even up on any advantage.

The golf cart flooded cell 6's used to rule all but at the expense of high levels of maintenance and the ever present corrosion issues. With the advent of AGM technology, that's all gone and the only advantage now is expense per AH and that's getting closer with the price of AGM's coming down and GC batteries going up.

OptimaJim

04-12-2010, 07:45 AM

CTD NUT & Travis, I don’t want to give people the impression that our batteries are perfect, as every battery manufacturer does produce some defective batteries. However, the percentage of defective batteries produced by any reputable manufacturer is extremely low. The scenario mentioned of batteries being replaced and no subsequent issues can easily happen with Optimas. If someone is using a RedTop in a deep-cycling (winching) application and the battery fails and is replaced with a deep-cycle battery from another manufacturer, it could easily resolve the issues they had due to misapplication. RedTops are simply not designed, intended or warrantied for deep-cycle applications, including winching.

nat ster, a BlueTop will work just fine under the hood, but unless you really like the additional threaded top posts or are using our Group 31 BlueTop, the D34M & D27M BlueTops are identical internally to their YellowTop counterparts and the 34M BlueTop is identical internally to the Group 34 RedTop.

JohnnyJ, I understand that stripped-down trail rigs are not loaded up with typical electrical accessories, but I know many carry winches and some of the 20-year old rigs even carry welders, which when needed, are generally powered by whatever batteries happen to be handy. Winches and welders are both considered deep-cycle applications and are not appropriate for RedTop batteries.

Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.facebook.com/optimabatteries

Halogrinder

04-12-2010, 08:10 AM

89breaker

04-12-2010, 01:22 PM

WildTurkeycj8

04-12-2010, 02:59 PM

89breaker

04-12-2010, 04:45 PM

Ok, maybe I missed it in here somewhere but, I thought one of the top reasons for buying an Optima was that it wouldn't leak when tipped sideways or upside down. I though they were filled with some type of gel. Apparently not.

So all these wal-mart and other batteries you guys are buying...are they sealed somehow so no acid leaks out in a roll? A guy in my high school had an auto accident where baterry acid leaked on his head and into his ear, and it messed him up pretty badly.

I am getting ready to buy the second battery for my dual battery setup. I had an Optima red top for years on my old scrambler (recently sold the jeep with the battery in it) which I used for both starting and winching and never had a problem. I have another red top which I won in a raffle a few years ago (I kept it charged and stored in good conditions) for starting this scrambler, but am going to purchase a deep-cycle for winching.

Thanks.

I am not getting the no-gel aspect of optima batteries as that was a main selling point.

I do know the original attraction was sealed, no maintenance, side mount, durability, etc.

DWT

04-12-2010, 05:15 PM

FWIW: I've had the same experience with the Walmart everstart, their highest end battery.

My Jeep can sit for 6+ months without starting. Go out, it fires up with ease every time.

I went to that battery over the other companies because I could find a walmart everywhere, the free replacement was 3 years and I think the pro-rate was up to 8 years.

Just checked the price at wally world on their biggest baddest group 27. $77, 3 year free replacement. Guess what I"m buying when I can afford it... :laughing:

mrblaine

04-12-2010, 07:47 PM

I am not getting the no-gel aspect of optima batteries as that was a main selling point.

I do know the original attraction was sealed, no maintenance, side mount, durability, etc.

There are Gel batteries as well as AGM. The Gel batteries have an addititive to the electrolyte that sets it up into a gel so it's non spillable.

AGM is Absorption Glass Mat and the electrolyte is absorbed by thin fiberglass cloth or mat and essentially held in place between the lead plates that way so it is non spillable.

Travis Waldher

04-13-2010, 07:54 AM

CTD NUT & Travis, I don’t want to give people the impression that our batteries are perfect, as every battery manufacturer does produce some defective batteries. However, the percentage of defective batteries produced by any reputable manufacturer is extremely low. The scenario mentioned of batteries being replaced and no subsequent issues can easily happen with Optimas. If someone is using a RedTop in a deep-cycling (winching) application and the battery fails and is replaced with a deep-cycle battery from another manufacturer, it could easily resolve the issues they had due to misapplication. RedTops are simply not designed, intended or warrantied for deep-cycle applications, including winching.

<snip>

JohnnyJ, I understand that stripped-down trail rigs are not loaded up with typical electrical accessories, but I know many carry winches and some of the 20-year old rigs even carry welders, which when needed, are generally powered by whatever batteries happen to be handy. Winches and welders are both considered deep-cycle applications and are not appropriate for RedTop batteries.

Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.facebook.com/optimabatteries

Thanks for at least replying so everyone else can see where Optima stands.

Travis Waldher

04-13-2010, 07:56 AM

Ok, maybe I missed it in here somewhere but, I thought one of the top reasons for buying an Optima was that it wouldn't leak when tipped sideways or upside down. I though they were filled with some type of gel. Apparently not.

So all these wal-mart and other batteries you guys are buying...are they sealed somehow so no acid leaks out in a roll? A guy in my high school had an auto accident where baterry acid leaked on his head and into his ear, and it messed him up pretty badly.

I am getting ready to buy the second battery for my dual battery setup. I had an Optima red top for years on my old scrambler (recently sold the jeep with the battery in it) which I used for both starting and winching and never had a problem. I have another red top which I won in a raffle a few years ago (I kept it charged and stored in good conditions) for starting this scrambler, but am going to purchase a deep-cycle for winching.

Thanks.

The everstart maxx batteries I have been buying are NOT sealed batteries.

But they also live tied down in an engine compartment inside of a vehicle that is not through a course of a regular wheeling trip under a high risk of flop or rollover. In the rare event I roll it and they leak, the nasty is under the hood.

If I was wheeling hard enough that I was on my side frequently or planned on being inverted, I would go for a sealed battery. Just not optima.

Travis Waldher

04-13-2010, 08:01 AM

I'll take a look at them. Money is tighter than it used to be and the Platinums x 2 will be a bit hard to swallow depending. If they leave me walking, I'm gonna come hunt you down. :flipoff2:

Just checked the price at wally world on their biggest baddest group 27. $77, 3 year free replacement. Guess what I"m buying when I can afford it... :laughing:

FYI:

I purchased 4 batteries from wally world, somewhere between Feb and April of 2008.

They are stamped made in 1/2008, shipped in 2/2008.

Of the 4, I have had one failure this week. 12+V, little/no amps.

I'm inside of my 3 year replacement, I'll update you guys when I can get to wally world and get the thing replaced.

Two of them live in my jeep, and needed a small charge. The Jeep pretty much sat untouched for over a year with the batteries hooked up. Save for moving it 200' one or two times.

The fourth is in the daily driver Durango and it fires the durango up just as well as it did 2 years ago.

OptimaJim

04-13-2010, 09:20 AM

do you think the advertisement of your batteries is mis-leading then? my petersons 4 wheel drive and offroad shows a jeep wrangler on a moab-looking hill with optima batteries (red top) as tire treads, with a winch on the front of it (if i remember correctly)

I'm not sure which ad you are referring to, but I took a look at my June 2010 issue of Peterson's and did find a full-page ad on page 15. However, that ad features a YellowTop and promotes that Optimas can start in any position, including sideways. If you think either ad is mis-leading, don't look at the ad on the inside cover of that issue, as it claims "a trailer will eat your flesh if you give it the chance."

I know our new marketing people are making a concerted effort to make sure the ads we run are appropriate for their markets. At SEMA last year, they brought in a group of enthusiasts from just about every segment we cover and asked them to review our current ads and offer feedback. I believe Woody from IH8Mud.com was there, as well as Randy the Hack and Mike Tomac from from DieselPlace.com.

Ironically enough, in that same issue (6/10) of Peterson's, they have an article showcasing 27 new products. Included in those products are a 5.11 Quick Light, a Masterlock back-up camera, a Garmin Nuvi 265WT, a Winch-In-A-Bag, and a portable air compressor. Those are just the kind of add-ons that will put added stress on any battery. Thankfully, they also included a battery & alternator kill switch as well, which is a great addition for any vehicle that only sees occasional use. There is also an excellent article on page 88 of that issue, which explains the right way (because there is a wrong way) to run 12-volt accessories on a 24-volt system.

Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.facebook.com/optimabatteries

apeters89

04-13-2010, 09:34 AM

Ironically enough, in that same issue (6/10) of Peterson's, they have an article showcasing 27 new products. Included in those products are a 5.11 Quick Light, a Masterlock back-up camera, a Garmin Nuvi 265WT, a Winch-In-A-Bag, and a portable air compressor. Those are just the kind of add-ons that will put added stress on any battery.

Every time you say things like this it makes me not want to buy an Optima even more. If your $160 battery can't run additional electronics, then it's useless. Almost everyone I know runs at LEAST a cell phone charger, nav unit, and often an upgraded stereo. The way you talk, Optimas (especially the Red Tops) are not up to the task of powering all of these devices.

Travis Waldher

04-13-2010, 09:53 AM

Every time you say things like this it makes me not want to buy an Optima even more. If your $160 battery can't run additional electronics, then it's useless. Almost everyone I know runs at LEAST a cell phone charger, nav unit, and often an upgraded stereo. The way you talk, Optimas (especially the Red Tops) are not up to the task of powering all of these devices.

What bothers me most about his statement, a few of the devices he lists don't even pull an amp.

What other battery manufacturers, are complaining about cell chargers and gps units harming their batteries.

SeaBass44

04-13-2010, 09:58 AM

I'm not sure which ad you are referring to, but I took a look at my June 2010 issue of Peterson's and did find a full-page ad on page 15. However, that ad features a YellowTop and promotes that Optimas can start in any position, including sideways. If you think either ad is mis-leading, don't look at the ad on the inside cover of that issue, as it claims "a trailer will eat your flesh if you give it the chance."

I know our new marketing people are making a concerted effort to make sure the ads we run are appropriate for their markets. At SEMA last year, they brought in a group of enthusiasts from just about every segment we cover and asked them to review our current ads and offer feedback. I believe Woody from IH8Mud.com was there, as well as Randy the Hack and Mike Tomac from from DieselPlace.com.

Ironically enough, in that same issue (6/10) of Peterson's, they have an article showcasing 27 new products. Included in those products are a 5.11 Quick Light, a Masterlock back-up camera, a Garmin Nuvi 265WT, a Winch-In-A-Bag, and a portable air compressor. Those are just the kind of add-ons that will put added stress on any battery. Thankfully, they also included a battery & alternator kill switch as well, which is a great addition for any vehicle that only sees occasional use. There is also an excellent article on page 88 of that issue, which explains the right way (because there is a wrong way) to run 12-volt accessories on a 24-volt system.

Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.facebook.com/optimabatteries

1st off I like optima's
I bought 4 yellow tops for my rig
got 2 in now & other 2 in DD trucks when not wheeling
have had great luck
bought a few used red tops & they have been great too

but as travis has said, in many many caees he knows of the quailty has gone down & all your replies look bad, sorry but you are not helping optima in my opinion.

in my case I have no problem with my batterys
but I know that is not the case for many others

biggest problem I have read over the last 5-8 years is new ones don't compare to old ones.

if I were you, I would stop repling, or get a yellow star, become a vendor here & go to vendor section & try selling them, even start a giveaway & promote your batterys, this thread isn't working for you:(

msalaba

04-13-2010, 10:52 AM

The scenario mentioned of batteries being replaced and no subsequent issues can easily happen with Optimas. If someone is using a RedTop in a deep-cycling (winching) application and the battery fails and is replaced with a deep-cycle battery from another manufacturer, it could easily resolve the issues they had due to misapplication. RedTops are simply not designed, intended or warrantied for deep-cycle applications, including winching.

You need to get out of the office. Most of us "off-road" types use a "OEM replacement" battery from manufacturer X. These are not deep-cycle batteries. They work fine. I know my Exide Orbital is not a deep-cycle. It is equivelent to your Red Top.

You have a whole bunch of unhappy customers and all you can say is that you are missusing our product? We missuse every product! You just can't admit that your product went from team idol to "I think I'd rather have an (N)EverStart."

:stirthepot:

OptimaJim

04-14-2010, 07:56 AM

Guys, I'm not here to sell anyone batteries. My primary purpose is to help people who already have them or have questions or concerns about them. A RedTop battery will be more than enough battery for most applications, but it is an SLI (starting/lighting/ignition) battery and is not intended for the deep-cycle applications many of you have. That is why I am so adamant in recommending YellowTops over RedTops for people with winches and other heavy electrical draws.

I understand many of you knowingly abuse or misuse products and that the perception of our batteries amongst some of you has changed and it hasn't been for the better. Some of the threads I participate in are full of sunshine and hapiness and some are not. I wouldn't be doing my job if I didn't try to help everyone, regardless of their feelings about our batteries. I do appreciate everyone's feedback and participation.

Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.facebook.com/optimabatteries

Lucy's Driver

04-14-2010, 09:05 AM

For what its worth, I've been running dual yellow tops in a trail built 98 TJ with many deep cycle draws (winch, welder, etc) since about 2000 or so. The winch gets a lot of use, the welder really only every six months or so. The rig has changed a lot but since 2000 but its had two yellow tops with an isolator system since that time.
I am on my second set. I replaced the first set maybe two or three years ago. For about the first five years I had to set up an IOD disconnect due to long storage times. Now that I have my own garage I keep the rig on a trickle charger between runs.
I haven't noticed any difference in performance and the current batteries seem perfectly fine.

snowdemon

04-14-2010, 09:14 AM

Jim I have stayed quiet while looking at this thread form time to time but I will voice that I to have had nothing but bad luck with your batteries *AND* your dealers. When I've needed a replacement on one that WILL NOT HOLD A CHARGE, I have taken them to multiple dealers and they refuse to warrantee the batteries. They tell me this is to expensive for them to do. Well even if you have a killer product at least ensure you dealers take care of the customers. There is nothing more frustrating than purchasing a $150+ product and when you need support they tell you to go screw off. Sorry to rant off on this but I'm quite pissed because I have 4 of your batteries that are dead and UNDER "Warrantee" and now have to go spend money AGAIN for a product that will hopefully take care of me.

SeaBass44

04-14-2010, 09:51 AM

Guys, I'm not here to sell anyone batteries.

then, job well done:laughing:
I couldn't help myself:D
http://www.houstontx.gov/hr/empages/emspring09/graphics/good_job_angel_williams.gif

http://www.grandprofile.com/Myspace_Comments/Congratulations_Comments/images/Good-Job-2.gif

89breaker

04-14-2010, 10:56 AM

Guys, I'm not here to sell anyone batteries.

Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.facebook.com/optimabatteries

Well then, I do believe I have found your problem.

Does everybody at Optima feel the same way?

This thread and my experience with Optima (including warranty claims) would leave me to believe they do.

Sooooooo, when is Advanced Adapters going to start making batteries...or should they just buy and fix Optima.
:grinpimp:

msalaba

04-15-2010, 07:35 AM

Well then, I do believe I have found your problem.

Does everybody at Optima feel the same way?

This thread and my experience with Optima (including warranty claims) would leave me to believe they do.

Sooooooo, when is Advanced Adapters going to start making batteries...or should they just buy and fix Optima.
:grinpimp:

ROFL :lmao:

OptimaJim

04-15-2010, 11:35 AM

snowdemon, I’m sorry to hear about the problems you had getting warranty service on your batteries. I will follow up with you via PM to get more information on your situation.

Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.facebook.com/optimabatteries

WildTurkeycj8

04-15-2010, 12:30 PM

Travis Waldher

04-15-2010, 11:11 PM

Maybe I was too long-winded in my last post....

What I was trying to ask is:

What other deep cycle options would you guys recommend for a battery that is sealed (i.e., won't leak battery acid in a roll)?

Thanks

The only other battery I had been looking at in the past is the odyssey, along the lines of the PC1500.

But they come with a hell of a price tag - about $250.

Which is why I ended up going to Walmart and their Everstart Maxx at $77. :laughing:

Travis Waldher

04-15-2010, 11:13 PM

<snip>

I understand many of you knowingly abuse or misuse products

<snip>

Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.facebook.com/optimabatteries

So.

Define abuse and misuse of your product.

msalaba

04-16-2010, 08:11 AM

Yes, that would be your best option. If you only have room for one battery and you do plan on winching, running a big stereo or anything else that might significantly drain a battery, a YellowTop is recommended over a RedTop.

Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
YouTube - Tech Tips 3: Recovering a Deeply Discharged Battery (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIoaL3DWWEg)

Hi Travis, whether you say “cranking” or “starting” in relation to turning over a vehicle’s engine, it’s basically the same thing. The difference you mentioned of sustained high amperage draw is significant, which is why we always recommend a YellowTop for such applications. A YellowTop is really a dual-purpose battery, as an appropriately-sized YellowTop will offer plenty of cranking/starting power, but also offer the reserve capacity and deep-cycling capability needed for winches and other such applications.

The chemistry of the battery itself is different for RedTops and YellowTops. That’s why a D35 YellowTop will weigh about five pounds more than a group 35 RedTop, even though the external dimensions of the respective batteries are identical. The reserve capacity (and deep-cycling capability) of the YellowTop is better than the RedTop, but that comes at the expense of some cranking amps, where the RedTop has an advantage. That’s why if someone has a winch and they only have space for one battery, we recommend a YellowTop that has enough cranking/starting power, while also being suitable for winching.

Nat, I’m sorry to hear about the problems you had with our batteries. Many of our batteries that are thought to be “bad” are just deeply-discharged and can often be recharged when using the technique described in this video- YouTube - Tech Tips 3: Recovering a Deeply Discharged Battery (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIoaL3DWWEg)

If your batteries cannot be recharged, they should all be covered under warranty, which I understand can be an aggravating process for you, because of where you live. You didn’t mention whether you had RedTops or YellowTops, but I should mention that fully-charged YellowTops are only protected from freezing to -30F and fully-charged RedTops are only protected from freezing to -50F. If your batteries are routinely in environments that are colder than that, you really should have a battery warmer, if you don’t already. If your battery freezes at temperatures warmer than those listed, it was probably not fully-charged and should be defrosted and checked for cracking, prior to charging.

89breaker, if your batteries failed within a year, they also should be fully-covered under our warranty. If your batteries are routinely subjected to extremely cold temperatures, you should probably have a battery warmer as well.

Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.

Hi Travis, cost is a concern for some folks and if they are running isolated batteries, a RedTop for starting and a YellowTop for winching is a cheaper option. Dual YellowTops in a parallel configuration offers more versatility, but that comes at a higher price. Ultimately, each consumer will have to weigh the options and decide what is best for them.

We are doing our best to address the concerns folks have about our batteries, but a lot of the issues we see now are related to mis-use and mis-application. Our defect rate has always been low and continues to improve. It has gotten to the point now, where pro-actively educating consumers about proper battery usage and maintenance is viewed as the next logical step in this process. So, if you plan on winching, choose a YellowTop instead of a RedTop.

BossBuilt, cranking amps allow a consumer to compare the starting power of batteries, without having to install them. We always recommend making sure a replacement battery either equals or exceeds the specs of the OEM battery on stock applications. Modified engines may require additional cranking amps, above and beyond what the OEM battery offers. Someone may like the size, weight or price of a given battery, but if it doesn’t offer enough cranking amps for their specific application, it’s probably not a good choice. Rated cranking amps also give consumers a baseline for battery health. If a battery is rated at 1000 cranking amps, but tests significantly lower than that, it may be an indication that the battery needs to be replaced.

Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
YouTube - Tech Tips 3: Recovering a Deeply Discharged Battery (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIoaL3DWWEg)

CTD NUT & Travis, I don’t want to give people the impression that our batteries are perfect, as every battery manufacturer does produce some defective batteries. However, the percentage of defective batteries produced by any reputable manufacturer is extremely low. The scenario mentioned of batteries being replaced and no subsequent issues can easily happen with Optimas. If someone is using a RedTop in a deep-cycling (winching) application and the battery fails and is replaced with a deep-cycle battery from another manufacturer, it could easily resolve the issues they had due to misapplication. RedTops are simply not designed, intended or warrantied for deep-cycle applications, including winching.

nat ster, a BlueTop will work just fine under the hood, but unless you really like the additional threaded top posts or are using our Group 31 BlueTop, the D34M & D27M BlueTops are identical internally to their YellowTop counterparts and the 34M BlueTop is identical internally to the Group 34 RedTop.

JohnnyJ, I understand that stripped-down trail rigs are not loaded up with typical electrical accessories, but I know many carry winches and some of the 20-year old rigs even carry welders, which when needed, are generally powered by whatever batteries happen to be handy. Winches and welders are both considered deep-cycle applications and are not appropriate for RedTop batteries.

Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
YouTube - Tech Tips 3: Recovering a Deeply Discharged Battery (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIoaL3DWWEg)

It seems that to use a Red Top for anything other than an OEM grocery getter with the lights and radio off is a mis-use and a Yellow top is required. Possibly even in dual configuration to get the CCA up high enough to start the vehicle..............

OptimaJim

04-16-2010, 08:59 AM

So.

Define abuse and misuse of your product.

Hi Travis,

People invent new ways to abuse and misuse our batteries every day, but our warranty spells out some specific examples, including improper overcharging and opening the battery case. You can read the entire document here- http://www.optimabatteries.com/_media/documents/Optima_Warranty.pdf

This warranty specifically identifies deep cycle or car audio applications as uses that would void a RedTop warranty. That would include winching with a a RedTop.

Lawyers like to make these documents long and complicated, but we try to be as straightforward as possible for both our consumers and our retailers. As a result, we don't have exclusions voiding the warranties on batteries that are discharged below a certain voltage level or charged with the wrong kind of charger.

We feel a better approach is to be pro-active with consumers, which is one of the reasons why Optima has me on message boards. We've also produced a series of YouTube videos, some of which have been linked in this thread. These videos help explain the differences between our batteries, but also offer some general tips on battery care and maintenance, which will help extend the life of any battery.

Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.facebook.com/optimabatteries

DWT

04-16-2010, 09:06 AM

Maybe I was too long-winded in my last post....

What I was trying to ask is:

What other deep cycle options would you guys recommend for a battery that is sealed (i.e., won't leak battery acid in a roll)?

Thanks

I wouldn't recommend a exide blue top.. It's a turd just like my last 2 red tops. the exide black top in my dd with a big dumb stereo is still doing just fine but the stereo is only on when driving the car so it's understandable.

Travis Waldher

04-16-2010, 10:01 AM

Hi Travis,

People invent new ways to abuse and misuse our batteries every day, but our warranty spells out some specific examples, including improper overcharging and opening the battery case. You can read the entire document here- http://www.optimabatteries.com/_media/documents/Optima_Warranty.pdf

This warranty specifically identifies deep cycle or car audio applications as uses that would void a RedTop warranty. That would include winching with a a RedTop.

Lawyers like to make these documents long and complicated, but we try to be as straightforward as possible for both our consumers and our retailers. As a result, we don't have exclusions voiding the warranties on batteries that are discharged below a certain voltage level or charged with the wrong kind of charger.

We feel a better approach is to be pro-active with consumers, which is one of the reasons why Optima has me on message boards. We've also produced a series of YouTube videos, some of which have been linked in this thread. These videos help explain the differences between our batteries, but also offer some general tips on battery care and maintenance, which will help extend the life of any battery.

Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.facebook.com/optimabatteries

In reading the warranty, I take away this.

NEVER BUY A RED TOP, if my car has a stock stereo in it, your company has the right to deny my warranty claim.

OPTIMA Batteries, Inc. starting batteries used in abusive service, deep cycle, or car audio applications are
excluded from warranty coverage. OPTIMA deep cycle batteries should be used for these applications.

"car audio" never being defined could mean anything, right down to a stock stereo.

Abuse:

OPTIMA Batteries, Inc. will have no obligation under this limited warranty in the event the
battery is damaged or destroyed as a result of any of the following events: improper
installation; damage or destruction by abusive overcharging; collision; theft; improper
maintenance or mishandling of the battery; natural forces such as wind, lightning, hail, etc.;
any willful or negligent act; penetration, or opening of the battery case in any manner.

Seriously - WIND?!? I guess I can never start a car up with your batteries without violating the warranty. The fan is going to blow on it.

For comparison, Interstate's warranty:
http://corporate.interstatebatteries.com/warranty/
THIS WARRANTY DOES NOT COVER DAMAGE TO THE BATTERY CAUSED BY ABUSE OR NEGLECT, A FAILURE TO KEEP THE BATTERY PROPERLY CHARGED OR MAINTAINED, FIRE, COLLISION, EXPLOSION, FREEZING, THEFT, OVERCHARGING, OR DAMAGE CAUSED BY USE OF SPECIAL ADDITIVES.

All of those listed - in my opinion are reasonable. They didn't list lightening, but odds are that battery will explode or catch fire, or certainly be overcharged. :laughing:

WTF-J

04-16-2010, 10:14 AM

Travis,

Wind seems like a silly exclusion, but Interstate's "A FAILURE TO KEEP THE BATTERY PROPERLY CHARGED OR MAINTAINED" is a broad enough clause to deny coverage on ANY warranty claim. (i.e. If it's properly charged and maintained, what's the problem?)

The real issue is how the warranty is administered.

SeaBass44

04-16-2010, 10:21 AM

In reading the warranty, I take away this.

NEVER BUY A RED TOP, if my car has a stock stereo in it, your company has the right to deny my warranty claim.

"car audio" never being defined could mean anything, right down to a stock stereo.

Abuse:

Seriously - WIND?!? I guess I can never start a car up with your batteries without violating the warranty. The fan is going to blow on it.

For comparison, Interstate's warranty:
http://corporate.interstatebatteries.com/warranty/

All of those listed - in my opinion are reasonable. They didn't list lightening, but odds are that battery will explode or catch fire, or certainly be overcharged. :laughing:

Travis,

Wind seems like a silly exclusion, but Interstate's "A FAILURE TO KEEP THE BATTERY PROPERLY CHARGED OR MAINTAINED" is a broad enough clause to deny coverage on ANY warranty claim. (i.e. If it's properly charged and maintained, what's the problem?)

The real issue is how the warranty is administered.

sorry:D

http://madisonshortsales.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/banging-head-on-wall.jpg

DWT

04-16-2010, 11:15 AM

sorry:D

Here I'll help ya with that Seabass. :D

http://i537.photobucket.com/albums/ff335/trashypants/Funny%20stuff/headbanging.gif

StinkBug

04-17-2010, 10:32 AM

I cant believe how many people are reccomending the Red Top Optimas in this thread. They used to be great, but since they moved everything overseas, and lowered their quality levels (and raised prices) they have become total pieces of shit.

I'm getting to the point where I dont even wanna bother trying to warranty the pieces of shit anymore. Over the years I've bought at least 5 or 6 from Pep Boys (they used to have the best price). All of them have been warrantied at least once, and right now I have one truck that has to be on a battery tender at all times to start, and even then it's a struggle, and another battery that wont even register as being a battery on any of my chargers. To make it worse Pep Boys refuses to warranty any battery that doesn't actually test "BAD" on their machine, and for whatever reason their machine has no problem calling a battery with 12CCA a good battery.

As for how to kill an optima? Easy. Just leave it in a vehicle that doesn't get driven daily and watch it go dead. If you let them run all the way down once, you might as well throw it away.

Fuck Optima and their shitty build quality. I can buy an XS Power that's half the size and weight and twice the performance for less money. I cant even turn the turn signals on in my moms rig without the headlights dimming with her Optima. On the other hand we were able to Winch Dustins ~50,000lb toter home over 200yards through the sand using both winches on the KOH TJ, and my diesel as an anchor running off of one XS Power 925. Both winches were hot as fuck, but the battery was fine.

BTW, my moms rig, the one that has to sit on a battery tender all the time. It's STOCK. Electrically the only thing not original from the factory is a CB radio that isn't even plugged in when we're not on the trail. She cant park the thing in her garage for more than a week without her battery being dead. It's pathetic. What's even more pathetic is that the Optima that's in it was built less than a year ago.

broncolou

04-17-2010, 10:44 AM

I use DEKA agms from Remy battery and am very happy with them:D

My name is Broncolou and I am a former Optima fan!

StinkBug

04-17-2010, 12:03 PM

The only other battery I had been looking at in the past is the odyssey, along the lines of the PC1500.

But they come with a hell of a price tag - about $250.

Which is why I ended up going to Walmart and their Everstart Maxx at $77. :laughing:

This is the battery that we have been using in all the competition cars, and the KOH TJ. It's the same dimensions, and case, and even built in the same factory as the Odyssey 925, but is built to powermasters specs. We've run both the Odyssey and the powermaster, and though we've had far better luck with both than the Optima, the Powermaster definitely rules them all. It also helps that it's a lot cheaper than a red top as well (my last warranty receipt listed the red top at $189).

XS Power S925 $159.95
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/XSP-S925/

SeaBass44

04-17-2010, 12:09 PM

This is the battery that we have been using in all the competition cars, and the KOH TJ. It's the same dimensions, and case, and even built in the same factory as the Odyssey 925, but is built to powermasters specs. We've run both the Odyssey and the powermaster, and though we've had far better luck with both than the Optima, the Powermaster definitely rules them all. It also helps that it's a lot cheaper than a red top as well (my last warranty receipt listed the red top at $189).

XS Power S925 $159.95
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/XSP-S925/

I know it's bash optima day.........:flipoff2: but to be fair
I bought 3 new yellow tops for $162.95 FREE shipping at AMAZON
they went up about $!0, but red tops are like $135

[Memphis]

04-18-2010, 08:25 AM

I'm running the Exide Purple Haze and am quite satisfied... reviewing AGM vs. Gell-cell, AGM seems like the way to go!

Plus I know my warranty is always going to be good :D

Just a snip

GEL vs. AGM Sealed Batteries

AGM (absorbed glass mat) is a special design glass mat designed to wick the battery electrolyte between the battery plates. AGM batteries contain only enough liquid to keep the mat wet with the electrolyte and if the battery is broken no free liquid is available to leak out.

Gel Cell batteries contain a silica type gel that the battery electrolyte is suspended in, this thick paste like material allows electrons to flow between plates but will not leak from the battery if the case is broken.

More often than not AGM Batteries are mistakenly identified as Gel Cell Batteries. Both batteries have similar traits; such as being non spillable, deep cycle, may be mounted in any position, low self discharge, safe for use in limited ventilation areas, and may be transported via Air or Ground safely without special handling.

AGM Batteries outsell Gel Cell by at least a 100 to 1. AGM is preferred when a high burst of amps may be required. In most cases recharge can be accomplished by using a good quality standard battery charger or engine alternator. The life expectancy; measured as cycle life or years remains excellent in most AGM batteries if the batteries are not discharged more than 60% between recharge. There are some AGM batteries we sell that offer excellent 80%+ deep cycle abilities.

Gel Cell Batteries are typically a bit more costly and do not offer the same power capacity as do the same physical size AGM battery. The Gel Cell excels in slow discharge rates and slightly higher ambient operating temperatures. One big issue with Gel Batteries that must be addressing is the CHARGE PROFILE. Gel Cell Batteries must be recharged correctly or the battery will suffer premature failure. The battery charger being used to recharge the battery(s) must be designed or adjustable for Gel Cell Batteries. If you are using an alternator to recharge a true Gel Cell a special regulator must be installed.

http://www.batterystuff.com/tutorial_battery_gel_agm.html

Travis Waldher

04-18-2010, 08:51 AM

I know it's bash optima day.........:flipoff2: but to be fair
I bought 3 new yellow tops for $162.95 FREE shipping at AMAZON
they went up about $!0, but red tops are like $135

What size battery?

I'm looking at group 34/78 type batteries.

Out in my area, the yellow tops are fetching $190-210, which is the same price on amazon.

rockota

04-18-2010, 03:49 PM

I have to agree. I don't know what happened or how, but the story on any "best" battery thread on any board is always the same.

"I've had my Optimas for 10 years and they're awesome. Killed 'em dead many times and they always come back"

Immediately followed by 5 guys lamenting their recent (less than 3-4 years) purchases and how fast the Optima turned to junk needing replacement.

That scenario is repeated endlessly on the boards and I know personally of many folks with the same issues.

This is my experience. My '95-purchased optima went through three vehicles, multipled complete drains, multiple freezing, driving w/o alternator for miles at a time... always came back. Best battery I ever owned.

All of the Optima's I've owned since ~2000 haven't been that robust. I'm currently looking at replacing my current red-top since it can't seem to hold a charge, even when disconnected.

OptimaJim

04-19-2010, 09:08 AM

WTF-J is correct about being concerned about how a warranty is administered and that does vary greatly, depending on who is working behind the counter. As far as the language, some warranties are brief and broad, while others are more specific. That’s where the administrative part comes into play. The wind exclusion is fairly standard and relates more to things like tornadoes or hurricanes. If a twister puts a fencepost into your battery, it’s not covered under warranty and that would probably hold true for most other battery warranties as well, depending on the guy behind the counter.

StinkBug, I’m sorry to hear you are disappointed with our batteries. If the headlights on your mom’s truck dim when using turn signals or any other electrical accessory, that is often an indication that the alternator is not supplying enough power and the vehicle is running off battery power. If that is the case, it’s likely that the battery is not getting fully-charged either. This video offers some tips on general battery and charging system diagnostics- YouTube - Tech Tips 7: Does my battery need to be replaced? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yPlx4MBNRU)

rockota, I’m sorry to hear about the problems you are having and I will follow up with you via PM as well.

Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
YouTube - Tech Tips 7: Does my battery need to be replaced? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yPlx4MBNRU)

FORDTECHGURU

04-19-2010, 06:58 PM

well, i tried the deep charge trick on my two red tops, hooked the old one with 10.5vdc to the charger and then cabled to the newer one with 3.75vdc and put it on 2 amps for a day, the old one came back to 12.6vdc, the newer one went up to 11.7 and within 2 hours dropped to 6.4vdc, noticed that a cell got warm on the newer one that wouldn't hold, no impact marks on it either, it came out of a 66 mustang that never had any issues, just parked it and it went dead over some years...

kneedownnate

04-24-2010, 11:25 PM

I was given 3 yellow top optimas several years ago when a customer didn't trust them to hold a charge anymore after being drained many times over 3 years due to a short in his boat. They're probably 10 years old now and all hold a charge and handle a load with minimal drop. I guess I just have good luck with batteries, just replaced the original battery in my 01 motorbike, but it still worked.

OptimaJim, do you have any experience or advice on using power pulses? I currently have one hooked to my old motorbike battery to see if it'll help at all, mostly for shits and giggles, but have considered putting one on my trucks too.

acprokeith

04-25-2010, 12:27 AM

I kill every battery I get (never tried an odyssey though) and the only ones that seem to be able to take the full discharge and recharge without damage are deep cycles. Autozone never asks any questions, and warranties them for 2 or 3 years. I run 2 of them in my service truck/ tow rig and it has a full office in it running all day long, as well as a Viar air compressor running sometimes.

The only batteries that have lasted have been these. $77 :grinpimp:
http://contentinfo.autozone.com/znetcs/product-info/en/US/jci/24MD-DL/image/8/

I have 2 in the truggy as well, and they take it all without any issues. I lost my alternator belt the other day 30 miles away. Drove all the way back with 7 lights on and didnt notice the alternator not charging. Realized the belt was gone the next day.

After a set of interstates a month for a while and then napa brand every month for a while its nice not to be fucking with batteries anymore.

vetteboy79

04-25-2010, 12:31 AM

I just put one of the $77 Walmart Everstart Maxx batteries in my jeep as a result of this thread.

Cranks strong as hell, we'll see how it lasts.

apeters89

04-25-2010, 07:59 AM

They're probably 10 years old now and all hold a charge and handle a load with minimal drop. I guess I just have good luck with batteries

No one is complaining about the old Optimas ;)

OptimaJim

04-26-2010, 09:16 AM

FORDTECHGURU, I'm sorry to hear your battery wasn't recoverable. Nate, if by power pulses, you are referring to Pulsetech's chargers, then I have heard of them and we have received good feedback on their 12-volt chargers- http://www.xtremechargers.com/collections/battery-chargers/products/xtreme-charge-12v-battery-charger

We don't endorse specific chargers, but we have also used and received good feedback on these chargers-

http://www.interacter.com/EX_Page.htm (12-volt model)
http://www.ctek.com/EN-US/Buy-US-Charger.aspx (7002 model)

Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.facebook.com/optimabatteries

kneedownnate

04-26-2010, 10:25 PM

Right brand, wrong product. I went to their site and they don't show it so it may be discontinued. It's a small box you hook to the battery, it sends a pulse through the battery every few seconds and is supposed to help keep the plates clean or clean the plates if they have buildup. We used them on the fleet of houseboats I used to work on.

broncolou

04-27-2010, 05:00 AM

I too have a 9+ year old optima I use as a beater battery around the shop. I just changed it out last year due to the "its gonna go any day now syndrome".Right now it is in a bobcat that has been sitting for months and cranked ok about 3 weeks ago. Now run Deka AGMs and have been happy with them. Can't afford a bad battery in a race situation......good to see Optima Jim is working on the situation.

Travis Waldher

04-27-2010, 05:12 AM

good to see Optima Jim is working on the situation.

Exactly what do you think he has been working on?

He's offered to help a couple existing customers. But, the situation in this thread isn't individual customer issues, it's about overall quality of batteries.

feva4u

04-27-2010, 05:25 AM

Exactly what do you think he has been working on?

He's offered to help a couple existing customers. But, the situation in this thread isn't individual customer issues, it's about overall quality of batteries.

Or lack there of to be specific. Just told a couple people to steer clear of Optimas, thanks for the feedback guys. I've been hearing bad things for a while, it's a shame, they were the only battery worth owning for quite a while. I normally expect more from Johnson Controls, where are the yellow, blue, red tops manufactured these days? Did the manufacturing location change from the old batteries to the new ones? hmmmmmm...

Travis Waldher

04-27-2010, 05:47 AM

Or lack there of to be specific. Just told a couple people to steer clear of Optimas, thanks for the feedback guys. I've been hearing bad things for a while, it's a shame, they were the only battery worth owning for quite a while. I normally expect more from Johnson Controls, where are the yellow, blue, red tops manufactured these days? Did the manufacturing location change from the old batteries to the new ones? hmmmmmm...

The manufacturing moved to Mexico several years ago. About the same time the initial decline in quality was discovered. BUT, just moving a manufacturing facility to another quality doesn't suddenly mean it's crap. More often than not, it's the company selling the product that decides to start cutting corners, or in this case, apparently stop "over" building their product to save money.

If it were me, I wouldn't pin quality issues on the plant in Mexico, just because it's Mexico. If they were willing to move a plant to save $$$, which is usually one of the last things you do. Who's to say that they didn't shave costs elsewhere.

EDIT: Note to OptimaJim - don't even reply and counter me. Don't like this conjecture? Please, come forward with some facts to explain quality decline, for now, all we have is conjecture. If you can't, or aren't allowed to, don't argue with us saying it's the customer to blame, just stay quiet. Maybe show this thread to your uppers?

Xjcrawler736

04-27-2010, 05:57 AM

I just put one of the $77 Walmart Everstart Maxx batteries in my jeep as a result of this thread.

Cranks strong as hell, we'll see how it lasts.

I did the same thing. I am one of the only people in our group that the battery doesn't die. One of our guys has a Diehard Platinum and it also works great. The Deka's have been junk for our group.

feva4u

04-27-2010, 06:35 AM

The manufacturing moved to Mexico several years ago. About the same time the initial decline in quality was discovered. BUT, just moving a manufacturing facility to another quality doesn't suddenly mean it's crap. More often than not, it's the company selling the product that decides to start cutting corners, or in this case, apparently stop "over" building their product to save money.

If it were me, I wouldn't pin quality issues on the plant in Mexico, just because it's Mexico. If they were willing to move a plant to save $$$, which is usually one of the last things you do. Who's to say that they didn't shave costs elsewhere.

EDIT: Note to OptimaJim - don't even reply and counter me. Don't like this conjecture? Please, come forward with some facts to explain quality decline, for now, all we have is conjecture. If you can't, or aren't allowed to, don't argue with us saying it's the customer to blame, just stay quiet. Maybe show this thread to your uppers?

I see. With the plant move, supply base for the components probably changed as well. That could very well be the decline in quality that has been observed. Good thread, I hadn't heard of the batteries from Summit that we mentioned, I'll probably give those a go when the current one gives up......and the warranty is denied.

WTF?

04-27-2010, 08:03 AM

Exactly what do you think he has been working on?

He's offered to help a couple existing customers. But, the situation in this thread isn't individual customer issues, it's about overall quality of batteries.

Exactly! Optima Jim actually directed me to this thread (I somehow missed it in my daily surfing of PBB) He seems to be tapdancing around the quality issue here, but addressed it (or skirted the issue really) elsewhere so I'll relay it here since I believe it's relevant.

In response to my comments:

... I'm going to state this as clearly as I can: The quality of your product is seriously questionable! You need to step up and stand behind your product. If Optima cannot make a $200 battery that will last for 36 months in 95% of cases, they should look for other products to make

... it's pretty clear that your job is to shift blame from a low quality product onto the user under the cover of 'customer misuse/abuse'.

We don't want to hear that your quality is and always has been at the same level, or, the red top isn't the right battery for the job but you should have no problem with a yellowtop, or how battery maintenance and diagnostics should be performed. We know that is all a bullshit cover and really not the primary issue here.

What we do want to hear: "Our quality control slipped a little bit and for this we are sorry. We are doing everything in our power to correct this and rebuild our reputation as the maker of the best battery in our class"

His reply is:

WTF, I’m sorry our batteries don’t meet your expectations, but I cannot tell you things about them that just aren’t true. Our quality control has not slipped and the batteries we are producing today are the best we have ever made.

One of the most difficult messages I have for off-road enthusiasts is that RedTops are not appropriate for winching or deep-cycle applications. There are a lot of people, some of whom have forgotten more about cars than I’ll ever know, who are using the wrong battery for their application. When I go to racetracks, dragstrips or car shows and ask people why they chose the battery they did, there’s often little rhyme or reason. “It fit, it was cheaper, it looks good,” are all common responses, but not necessarily the best reasons for buying a battery.

The defect rate for any reputable battery manufacturer is surprisingly low and the vast majority of people never have problems with their batteries. Those folks are far less-inclined to wake up one morning and start singing the praises their battery, than the folks who have problems. No battery manufacturer releases sales figures, but it’s safe to say we sell a lot of batteries. Even if 99% of our customers are totally satisfied with our products, the other 1% might be a larger group than the total customer base of another brand. I understand all of that and a big part of what I do involves helping people who have problems with their batteries or questions about them. So if anyone has questions, please don’t hesitate to ask. Some of you have PM’d me and that’s fine too, I’m happy to help.

Trying to use statistics to justify their shitty product, but yet can't seem to generate any concrete numbers to back up their quality control statements. :confused:

Now I have a company whose product quality has let me down, warranty next to worthless and is now communicating what appears to be a boldfaced lie to me. Awesome customer service right here :rolleyes:

OptimaJim

04-27-2010, 09:01 AM

70CRZR

04-27-2010, 09:46 AM

feva4u

04-27-2010, 10:22 AM

I would like to believe Optima's quality is not slipping, but it is. This is far from the only forum complaining about the downturn of a once great battery. Just remember, once a customer is gone it's really difficult to get them back. My 2 Yellow tops are about done after 11 years, and I can tell you they will not be replaced with new Optimas.

Fab places are starting to build battery trays for different brands now too, that just solidifies the fall from grace of Optima batteries. 5 yrs ago you bought dual optima trays......now you buy a battery tray for your brand of battery because anyone who's been reading for the last 2 years knows not to buy an Optima. Maybe you can use that fact to reinforce the loss of loyalty with consumers Jim.

vetteboy79

04-27-2010, 11:32 AM

Guys, please understand that I'm not trying to steer people away from our products, but in this thread (and others), there are several people who are using RedTops in deep-cycle (winching) applications, which is not recommended. I am trying to help people understand which batteries are appropriate for which applications. Batteries (regardless of brand) with the ability to be deep-cycled are appropriate for winching, starting batteries are not.

I've had to winch myself out of a few places with the engine off, once because of a busted starter, once because of a fuel issue. Both times I pulled until I almost cooked the magnets out of the winch and the solenoids barely had enough juice to click over. I was able to push-start the jeep and have it fire right back up, and after a bunch more driving around the battery was fine.

That's an extreme example, but by far not the only time I've ran the winch hard for a long period of time. Then there's the time I had to drive 20 miles back to camp from the middle of the desert with no fan belt (and no charging). Had to jump-start after that one.

Then there's just the plain ol' left-the-headlights-on and drained it, or didn't realize my stereo amp had a short to ground and would kill the battery after a night's worth of sitting, etc.

That battery was installed in April '07, and I recently replaced it with the Walmart one as I mentioned before, only because I relocated the battery to the back of the jeep and needed a different group size. It's now in my daily driver jeep. Just your basic off-the-shelf Napa standard-duty battery, whatever the stock size was for an XJ.

I'm sorry you think the Optimas are so fragile, 'cause they used to be pretty badass. We obviously abuse the hell out of stuff in this sport and tend to find the limits of most products - and that limit has become a lot more conservative with the new Optima products. I've seen it on my friends' trail rigs, I've seen it on tow rigs, and I've seen it online. Things that we used to never think twice about suddenly cause these batteries to crap out and die, and a warranty ain't worth anything when you're stranded in the woods.

Honestly you're starting to sound like a broken record with this winching/deep cycle stuff...it's a great way to place the blame on the consumer instead of the company, and it's certainly not going to convince anyone here.

Straight up: are the Optima batteries being produced today identical to the ones produced ten years ago?

redneckengineered

04-27-2010, 02:04 PM

I'm gonna throw out a suggestion for Cat batteries. The most common is a Gp31 though your Cat dealer can get other sizes. They come with a 2 yr replacement, 6 yr pro-rate warranty. The Gp31 batteries come in 825cca for starting/deep cycle and 1000cca for starting. They are maintenance free, thick cased, and very stout. Hell, they love for years in equipment that gets used far harder offraod then most of us drive, and they do it daily!!

x1987428746237846. I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned more. Caterpillar batteries are tough! I'm running two in my Dodge tow rig, 1200 CCA each and they are stout. They also were only slightly larger than the stock batteries. I had to trim the tray just a bit, took about 10 minutes with a dremel tool. The best part is CAT offers a ton of different sizes and configs. You can pull up a full list online. All I did was measure my factory batteries then go over that list to find the biggest baddest battery that was close in size. I picked them up at my local CAT dealer for about $150 each. There is no special handshake or anything just paid up with a CC, in and out deal.

All that being said, I run a yellow top Optima in the buggy that has been beat on HARD for about 7 years now. When it dies it'll get replaced with a CAT.

mrblaine

04-27-2010, 02:50 PM

Guys, please understand that I'm not trying to steer people away from our products, but in this thread (and others), there are several people who are using RedTops in deep-cycle (winching) applications, which is not recommended.

Just a few questions to help us in our battery selection.

What does Optima consider to be the maximum depth of discharge in a Red Top using a winch before they recommend a deep cycle version?

How many of those discharge cycles are considered to be harmful enough to render the Red Top a poor choice?

Is there a maximum amperage draw on a Red Top that should be avoided?

Fl-Krawler

04-27-2010, 03:14 PM