OK, got a call this morning asking about building a buggy using an RRC chassis.

I suggested using either a Disco or RRC bulkhead and tubing from there. I'm thinking it would save me from having to fab things like pedal supports steering wheel mounting, master cylinder mounting, etc. A Series bulkhead is an option as well although that would require a lot of fab work as well.

Pros/cons? Let me know your thoughts.

PT

ps-the truggy comes back this weekend so that project can progress after stalling. Which is worse, project creep or project stall?

Series bulkhead would seem to be to be the easiest way.

Frank and I were just talking about rover buggies and we were saying that with the cost of old disco's that maybe its time for a formula rover...kinda like the formula toys.

lets face it you could build one really cheap and have a blast wheeling it.

even as cheap as discos are, theres very little on them worth having in a buggy.

even as cheap as discos are, theres very little on them worth having in a buggy.

oh come on

aluminum V8 that can run propane

strong auto box with awsome cooling factory

lt230 with over 3-1 ratio stock.

all in a boxed frame

whats not to like in a buggy.

you could build a awsome buggy from a rover for under 5k

and if you did it like the Ftoy series who cares if everybody is on the same level.

I would think that keeping the bulkhead would make the project much easier. I'm interested to see where this goes. Your number one enemy here (of course) is weight. The discovery frame is strong, but heavy. That's the reason I've been whittling away at mine. Even now, with only about 60% of it remaining, it is still heavy!

Having said that, the path of least resistance is definitely to chop the body at the bulkhead, chop the frame at the rear coil buckets, and plop on a prefab cage. Instant buggy! You will have to do some work to the front clip if you want to run tires larger than 35" though. The wheelwells are just too small.

You already have rover buggy kits out there. Take a look at Rockware.net and you can look at their kit they have put together.

You also had Pikes Peak Rovers racing a buggy that started from a rover frame and was built to compete and finished well in the 2007 season. So the rover buggy is already being done.

Some times people like to appear "smart" reinventing the wheel. Broadcasting things they have read or researched elsewhere like its their own idea. You will get used to it pushrodclassic, we get a lot of that here.

Have you got any dead horses we can beat to death?

If you are going to use the Rover frame I would keep the bulkhead as it would save you a bunch of time and effort. Might even use one if I were starting with tube but I would use a 90 bulkhead in that case.

Maybe cut the sills off at the floor, attach the tube work to the frame at the a pillar then follow the a pillar line up to the top of the windscreen to make the front hoop.

qwerty

Some times people like to appear "smart" reinventing the wheel. Broadcasting things they have read or researched elsewhere like its their own idea. You will get used to it pushrodclassic, we get a lot of that here.

Have you got any dead horses we can beat to death?

And some spend time complaining about others not doing anything and whine more when someone suggests they might be doing something. You were very critical of Alex's project even though he was doing something few others are. We can't all follow your path.

I suppose it would be too much to expect for you to keep your personal dislike for me out of this.

mr pendy
post up some tech on this mater (maby some pics for us who can't read so good):grinpimp:

mr pendy
post up some tech on this mater (maby some pics for us who can't read so good):grinpimp:

You read pretty good, it's the writing part that gets you:D

Paul,
I think a disco or rrc is a decent idea if you are running an auto transmission, so you can utilize the stock pedals, or if you already have a manual disco for a donor. Other wise i think it could be pricey trying to get a 3 pedal set up. Otherwise I would think a series 3/Defender bulkhead would be easier.

Then again since its a buggy, look for a 5 speed S-10 cab to cut up.

-Jeff

Pros
----
Rover V8, Zf autobox, LT230 are a good package to build on.
wheelbase is about right
cheap to get started

Cons
-----
You need to replace axles and power steering.
Frame height is more than you would want

I think it is a good package when you want a rover themed rig.
chop frame behind seats

The problem have seen is that it is hard to make it look good and still wheel it hard.
Ed

And some spend time complaining about others not doing anything and whine more when someone suggests they might be doing something. You were very critical of Alex's project even though he was doing something few others are. We can't all follow your path.

I suppose it would be too much to expect for you to keep your personal dislike for me out of this.


Ouch maybe that dead horse has a little life in it yet.

How many of these schemes have you subjected us to here? I am going to build a crawler box he says. I am going to build a nine inch/rover axle? I am going to build a custom dana 60 now? I am this and that---yada yada yada.... ADD at its finest. Never a creative thought, just taking someone elses idea and re-marketing it for yourself and your kool kid factor. Why not just be yourself and give up the show. --- Oh just kidding ---------I don't really care anyway, remember?

The man pushrodclassic made a point about the buggy thing being done and I agreed with him and gave him my perspective.

I was critical of Alex's new direction. Its not a new idea either. Been done to death with other make vehicles. Its my opinion that when you cut the frame down that much you loose the torsional rigidity of said frames original design. Not what I would want to do myself. But what the hey--plenty of people do it that way. Its just a glorified go kart at this point just like any of our trucks that are trailer queens built for trails. I'm entitled to my opinion nonetheless.

No need to go on with this discussion PTADD. I am sure you can find a more positive way to pad your postcount.

Afi I can send you some pictures to post if you like. Me no red star lately. Okydoeky?

Bah,

All these personality clashes used to be fun, now its just getting annoying.

It has been proven more than once that a rover frame can be used to make an insanely good offroad truck. If you use it, no reason really to dump the bulkhead. Frame height is the only real negative. The weight thing is overblown.

Ouch maybe that dead horse has a little life in it yet.

How many of these schemes have you subjected us to here? I am going to build a crawler box he says. I am going to build a nine inch/rover axle? I am going to build a custom dana 60 now? I am this and that---yada yada yada.... ADD at its finest. Never a creative thought, just taking someone elses idea and re-marketing it for yourself and your kool kid factor. Why not just be yourself and give up the show. --- Oh just kidding ---------I don't really care anyway, remember?

The man pushrodclassic made a point about the buggy thing being done and I agreed with him and gave him my perspective.

I was critical of Alex's new direction. Its not a new idea either. Been done to death with other make vehicles. Its my opinion that when you cut the frame down that much you loose the torsional rigidity of said frames original design. Not what I would want to do myself. But what the hey--plenty of people do it that way. Its just a glorified go kart at this point just like any of our trucks that are trailer queens built for trails. I'm entitled to my opinion nonetheless.

No need to go on with this discussion PTADD. I am sure you can find a more positive way to pad your postcount.

Afi I can send you some pictures to post if you like. Me no red star lately. Okydoeky?

(pouty child voice on) Oh yeah? I don't care!(pouty child voice off)

someone weld something quick!

Wow! Nice post!

While building a 'buggy' off an existing vehicle platform may, at first, seem noble and intriguing, ask 100 people who have done it whether or not building from scratch would have been better in the long run, and I would venture to guess over 90% would say yes.

With the exception of the drive train, the rest should be tossed. The frames weigh a metric ton and in the end, you really don't gain anything except general mounting locations for links, and drive-train.

Don't use the bulkhead either. Again too much weight and IMO there isn't a clean way to tie the tube into it w/o a bunch of fiberglass work.


If you want a buggy, buy one that has a proven chassis design that you like and can afford. If you want it to look like a rover, skin it with some rover panels.

And before anyone says "yea, but it won't be *my* design", I say don't worry about it. There will be PLENTY of custom one-off's that will be *your* design and influence based on the components that you will be putting into it. Trust me on this one, by the time your done with your rig, just about everything on it will be custom and you will be praising the fact that you didn't have to build the chassis.

--D

Thanx Doug. I do have Branik Motorsports in Fort Wayne and three race car shops in or near Churubusco so there's no shortage of chassis builders within neck wringing distance.

Using the RRC chassis was not my idea, it was suggested as I have a roller right behind the shop that was coming in to be used as a pattern anyway and the person who called me suggested it as it was convenient and gonna be having something done with it.

I hope to have room cleaned out for it inside by the first of the week and am hoping to have a chance to drag the stripped chassis to the grain elevator to find out just how much an RRC chassis really weighs stripped of all but crossmembers and "outriggers".

As for the "custom" work, I don't care about that as you're right. I have a client who is restoring (among other vehicles) a 1922 (I think) Indy car that his grandfather began building, but never finished. I've learned a lot about restoration from him. As he put it, everything on one of those cars (Indy-level race cars) is one-off as there really isn't a store to buy Indy cars, nor are there any replacement parts. Just about any heavy build ends up in the same boat.

Body panels aren't an issue. AFIRover and I were just talking about how to tube the front of this truggy-he wants to do it to save weight, I want to do it to remove sheetmetal that isn't needed :D. The truggy is supposedly coming back tonight so I'll probably be looking at the pics of Buck's most recent build for inspiration so I'll have something to suggest to AFI.

Cheers,
PT

I changed the liner in my birdcage today :flipoff2:

Some times people like to appear "smart" reinventing the wheel. Broadcasting things they have read or researched elsewhere like its their own idea. You will get used to it pushrodclassic, we get a lot of that here.

Have you got any dead horses we can beat to death?

wow I guess this is aimed at me?

please point me to where people have talked about doing a rover buggy similar to the Ftoys I would love to read this stuff.

Also show me where I claimed anything as my idea?

I have been following the Rockware buggy and it looks cool and from what I can see has potential.

I was simply saying that Frank and I had recently chatted about a formula rover idea, I guess that threatened you in some way.

I have come across about 10 disco's for about $500 each in the last month, thats alot of potential fun IMHO and if there was a simple system to convert them into a buggy I think people would jump on the band wagon. They wouldent have to run 37"tires they wouldent have to be as good as all the ftoys out there to be fun they would just need to be cheap and available.

I have been around the wheeling world for over 30 years, today it is consumed with the "gotta have" mentality. The cool thing about wheeling in my opinion is that the one thing you "gotta have" is fun. fun building, fun driving, fun watching... etc etc

a $2500 buggy running disposable stock rover parts on smallish tires sounds fun to me, but as you said you have talked about it and its all been done.

Thom

For the formula rover talk to Mike at hendrix motorsports if you are serious. I am sure he could tell you if it would be something he'd be interested in working on.

-ben

thanks for that...just checked his site very cool.

and $1200ish for a base chassis looks like a great deal :smokin:

For the formula rover talk to Mike at hendrix motorsports if you are serious. I am sure he could tell you if it would be something he'd be interested in working on.

-ben


Mike is open to dimensional changes to the base design he has now. In other words, if you want it a little wider/longer he will work with you.

Also, it NEVER ceases to amaze me how many folks think that a base/budget buggy (that you would be semi-proud to own) can be built for sub 10K, much less $2.5K? No offence but you will quickly realize that not to be the case if you choose to go that route. And before anyone tries to itemize out the cost of building one, unless you actually HAVE built one you really have no idea.

--D

Oh I hear yeah, I always use the rule of...cost of parts x2 plus 50% for unforseen= real cost:D

I have a buncha toys so I know how sheet adds up.

but...once again the "gotta have" mentality just came into this again.

you added (that you would be semi-proud to own)and thats where the cliff shows up because people are then building based on what others are going to say about it instead of what they need to have fun.

I have seen a number of people with huge grins driving $500 zuk's off road and there are lots of guys that would be embarrassed to be seen whelling that same truck...who's right?

the part I like about the ftoy concept is its cheap compared to the insane buggies out there these days. Not everyone can own a 50k buggy but lets face it you dont need a 50k buggy to have fun either.

going back to what I was trying to contribute was that a simple rover chassis has alot of fun potential for not much cost. what the actual cost to build would be would have alot to do with how clever the builder was and where he was willing to draw the line on expences.

Touche!

In the end it IS about having fun. I'll digress for a moment, because you bring up a great point. My entire life I've tried to be satisfied with what I have and not fret about what I want. What I want will come in time if it is meant to be.

That said, cool crap is cool crap. Cool crap that performs well is extra cool. Owning extra cool crap makes me feel good, and that in turn makes a fun trip extra fun! Why? Because for me wheeling is 70% of the adventure...The other 30% is talking with other owners of extra cool crap about said crap. Making plans to procure more extra cool crap, with the limited funds my wife will let me have, is fun too! Cool crap is cool!

On the other hand, crappy crap while still fun, tends to leave you stranded. Fixing crappy crap sucks. Making crappy crap work well tends to be more work, and in the end will cost you a bundle for the same general crap to crap - fun to wheeling ratio as extra cool crap.

--D

I agree with the costing on both sides you can wheel a rover stock a lot of places if you can drive. It's just the whole pirate mentality bigger is better and frankly for my type of wheeling I agree. There are still plenty of people trying to get into the sport and ratted out discos or range rovers are a pretty good platform for that type of wheeling. Really the formula toy is a totally different animal, but you are not going to build one regardless of how you do it for less than 10k. And a 10k build will not be competion vehicle because you won't have ARBs front and rear, stickies, radios, ect. I do think that a formula rover would be interesting but it would not really be like a formula toy.

-ben

Yup. Crappy crap only gets you so far. Eventually cool crap, and extra cool crap is necessary to get you to the next 8 - 10% of ability at 70 - 80% more cost.

And that my friends is why we want extra cool crap....So that we can clear obstacles no one else can and not break in the process. And in the event that you do break your extra cool crap, you're extra cool yourself for doing it. You see, NO ONE likes it when someone breaks crappy crap because it happens every day. That's why it's crappy.

I do think that a formula rover would be interesting but it would not really be like a formula toy.

-ben

A friend of mine has the formula toy prototype that he bought and modified to accept RR running gear. Its actually a pretty cool buggy. Ill see if I can get some pics from him.

Last I heard he was going to sell though, as he is having alot of fun with the LWB RRC he just picked up. Its in Paso, if anyone is interested I can put you in touch.

-Jeff

Crap is subjective.

Crap is subjective.

Yup. What's one man's crap is another mans gold.

--D

A friend of mine has the formula toy prototype that he bought and modified to accept RR running gear. Its actually a pretty cool buggy. Ill see if I can get some pics from him.

Last I heard he was going to sell though, as he is having alot of fun with the LWB RRC he just picked up. Its in Paso, if anyone is interested I can put you in touch.

-Jeff

It would be cool to see some pics.

-ben

Does anyone out there know how to spell the noise a turd makes when it falls from your ass and hits the water.....? Cause that's what I just heard when I got done reading the two pages of this post!

Does anyone out there know how to spell the noise a turd makes when it falls from your ass and hits the water.....? Cause that's what I just heard when I got done reading the two pages of this post!


Dang man, Rockrover's cryin'! I just spit coffee up all over my monitor! Good one.:laughing::laughing:


--D

Dang man, Rockrover's cryin'! I just spit coffee up all over my monitor! Good one.:laughing::laughing:


--D

Sorry Doug, I disagree. Those comments don't add any insight or inspiration to the question at hand.


Damned unreliable Shopboys. The new one got off to a great start making room inside the shop for rolling chassis and then, he flakes.

Oh well, broken trucks to fix right now, probably don't need the distraction of such a project today, maybe tomorrow!

Oh well, broken trucks to fix right now, probably don't need the distraction of such a project today, maybe tomorrow!

well, there it is, the old excuse... when are you actually going to build something so you can take it wheeling? don't say you don't have time.. I have a full time job plus a 100 mile (round trip) a day commute.

I just sleep less. how much more than 4 hours do you need anyway?

come on! :shocked:

Alex:
As you know so well, I'm not one of the cool kids. As a result, I work on other folks' trucks and watch them wheel from inside, you know, kinda like in school when the weak wimpy kid didn't get to go outside during recess :flipoff2:

I'm the weak wimpy nerdy kid!

At least my health seems to be improving every day.

yea how much sleep do you need ?

Does anyone out there know how to spell the noise a turd makes when it falls from your ass and hits the water.....? Cause that's what I just heard when I got done reading the two pages of this post!

PT-UNK:flipoff2:

I clean bathrooms.......:flipoff2:

I clean bathrooms.......:flipoff2:

Glad to see you're working again! :flipoff2:

Call me tomorrow.

Pm me with your email and i can send you some pics of our chassis kit.

RockWare
JTM

A tube frame on the old chassis is still a very popular option over here, and it works.

My friend Malcolm Whitbread makes these frames -

http://www.whitbread-offroad.co.uk/space_frames.php

and here he is competing in one of his creations -

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i262/mudplugga/album%202/IMGP4211.jpg

Obviously he has jigs to speed up production, but the basic idea is good and all you need is flat alloy sheet for bodywork, easier to fix when you wreck it!

Tomcat, Bowler etc.

Touche!

In the end it IS about having fun. I'll digress for a moment, because you bring up a great point. My entire life I've tried to be satisfied with what I have and not fret about what I want. What I want will come in time if it is meant to be.

That said, cool crap is cool crap. Cool crap that performs well is extra cool. Owning extra cool crap makes me feel good, and that in turn makes a fun trip extra fun! Why? Because for me wheeling is 70% of the adventure...The other 30% is talking with other owners of extra cool crap about said crap. Making plans to procure more extra cool crap, with the limited funds my wife will let me have, is fun too! Cool crap is cool!

On the other hand, crappy crap while still fun, tends to leave you stranded. Fixing crappy crap sucks. Making crappy crap work well tends to be more work, and in the end will cost you a bundle for the same general crap to crap - fun to wheeling ratio as extra cool crap.

--DExactly.
I used to coach kids basketball and I would always start out the first practice with this talk. "The main goal on this team is to have fun. Now, that said, can we all agree that winning is more fun than losing?"

Yea, any wheeling is fun, but the bigger the obstacle, the more fun it is.