Pasadena meeting [Archive]

Ed A. Stevens

07-30-2002, 01:56 PM

Let's make it easy to identify when and where!

August 5
Sheraton Pasadena Hotel
303 East Cordova Street
Pasadena, CA 91101

3PM-5PM and 7PM-9PM

Show up early and ask for the sign up list to speak.

Off-road enthusiasts, who speak, will potentially displace greens that may speak: this is a game of minutes recorded, for and against.

Talk to other off-road enthusiasts in attendance, and if they have a better presentation, you can offer your speaking time to them. This has worked very well in the past when the ASA, Cal4Wheel, and other organizations legal and biologist representation demanded more time to address important factual points that need to be entered into the record.

If an organization has a keynote speaker who will be in attendance, post it so a speaker list can be assembled to provide him as much time as needed, if needed.

Do not be shy to sign up as a speaker, even if all you have to offer is an emotional argument. Speak that you wish to keep the canyon open to future motorized travel for your children, or that you want it to remain rustic but open to motorized access. Speak that you value the canyon as open to motorized travel and maintained as an unpaved trail (least impact natural terrain trail experience).

Surprise Canyon should not be considered a unique ecosystem in the Panamints, or environs of California High Desert. It one of, at least, seven known wet (riparian) canyons with a year round presence of surface water in the Panamint Range. The majority of year round surface water in the canyon (riparian area) harboring wildlife is upstream of the bedrock road where established vehicle use crosses and enters the stream course. Continued vehicle access will not have any impact on the majority of the potential riparian habitat (if it even qualifies as functional riparian habitat).

The Panamint Alligator lizard is found in 27 canyon areas, and is not specific to Surprise Canyon (a report lists one of the species observed in the canyon. Surprise Canyon should not be qualified as critical habitat until adequate study can determine the range and distribution of the species. Consideration must be given to the success of finding the species with the minimal effort and funding (completed to date) for observation and classification of this species. 26 other canyons, including those without functional riparian systems, have been documented as harboring this species.

Wheeled travel has been present in Surprise Canyon since 1873 (established by a butcher's cart). This wheeled presence existed as recently as the closure date. Wheeled use in the canyon has never been abandoned.

The "road" improvements date back to the first graded roadbed in 1873-1874. Grading talus and sand down the canyon to cover the currently exposed bedrock (difficult) section of the canyon established the road. This "road" has washed out and has been rebuilt many times, disturbing the canyons bed with flood and grading, throughout pioneer and modern times (with major disturbance activity as recent as floods in the late 1990's). Motorized enthusiasts are NOT asking for grading or any type of earth moving to take place in the effort to keep the canyon open to motorized travel. A rustic motorized trail experience is desired.

Happy Trails!


Pirate4x4.Com > Land Use and Trails > Land Use Issues > Pasadena meeting PDA : Pasadena meeting r77toy 07-29-2002, 08:47 PM Who wants to hookup to go to the Pasadena BLM meeting? Leaving from the Torrance area. Mustard Dog 07-30-2002, 06:29 AM I fully would, but I'm leaving from downtown at about 2:30 and going straight there. YellowSub1962 07-30-2002, 07:24 AM leaving Simi around 1:45 :usa: Ed A. Stevens 07-30-2002, 01:56 PM Let's make it easy to identify when and where! August 5 Sheraton Pasadena Hotel 303 East Cordova Street Pasadena, CA 91101 3PM-5PM and 7PM-9PM Show up early and ask for the sign up list to speak. Off-road enthusiasts, who speak, will potentially displace greens that may speak: this is a game of minutes recorded, for and against. Talk to other off-road enthusiasts in attendance, and if they have a better presentation, you can offer your speaking time to them. This has worked very well in the past when the ASA, Cal4Wheel, and other organizations legal and biologist representation demanded more time to address important factual points that need to be entered into the record. If an organization has a keynote speaker who will be in attendance, post it so a speaker list can be assembled to provide him as much time as needed, if needed. Do not be shy to sign up as a speaker, even if all you have to offer is an emotional argument. Speak that you wish to keep the canyon open to future motorized travel for your children, or that you want it to remain rustic but open to motorized access. Speak that you value the canyon as open to motorized travel and maintained as an unpaved trail (least impact natural terrain trail experience). Surprise Canyon should not be considered a unique ecosystem in the Panamints, or environs of California High Desert. It one of, at least, seven known wet (riparian) canyons with a year round presence of surface water in the Panamint Range. The majority of year round surface water in the canyon (riparian area) harboring wildlife is upstream of the bedrock road where established vehicle use crosses and enters the stream course. Continued vehicle access will not have any impact on the majority of the potential riparian habitat (if it even qualifies as functional riparian habitat). The Panamint Alligator lizard is found in 27 canyon areas, and is not specific to Surprise Canyon (a report lists one of the species observed in the canyon. Surprise Canyon should not be qualified as critical habitat until adequate study can determine the range and distribution of the species. Consideration must be given to the success of finding the species with the minimal effort and funding (completed to date) for observation and classification of this species. 26 other canyons, including those without functional riparian systems, have been documented as harboring this species. Wheeled travel has been present in Surprise Canyon since 1873 (established by a butcher's cart). This wheeled presence existed as recently as the closure date. Wheeled use in the canyon has never been abandoned. The "road" improvements date back to the first graded roadbed in 1873-1874. Grading talus and sand down the canyon to cover the currently exposed bedrock (difficult) section of the canyon established the road. This "road" has washed out and has been rebuilt many times, disturbing the canyons bed with flood and grading, throughout pioneer and modern times (with major disturbance activity as recent as floods in the late 1990's). Motorized enthusiasts are NOT asking for grading or any type of earth moving to take place in the effort to keep the canyon open to motorized travel. A rustic motorized trail experience is desired. Happy Trails! Dingo 08-02-2002, 02:43 AM Originally posted by r77toy Who wants to hookup to go to the Pasadena BLM meeting? Leaving from the Torrance area. I am going and might be interested in hooking up before hand. I am leaving from Torrance too.....I am near Torrance and Maple, close to the Del Amo mall. Does anyone know approximately how many people are going to show? I could probably whip together something to say if needed. ;) YellowSub1962 08-03-2002, 07:00 PM Dingo, whip something up and say it no matter what... it's just 3 less minutes the Anti-Recreationists can talk :usa: r77toy 08-04-2002, 09:08 AM Good point Yellowsub, the longer we hold the floor, the less we have to listen to their B.S. :mad: Joe V 08-05-2002, 02:45 AM I plan on attending with a friend. We will be leaving from Whittier around 5pm. We plan on taking the 605 to the 210. Will this route take us longer than 90min? How bad is the traffic heading this way? Does anyone know a faster route?