It's almost time for me to make the decision on shocks for my "Wrangler H.D." project.

Here is the project thread: http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=624927

The purpose of the build is basically a road ready (interstate speed) rock crawler. Four links front and back, 100" wheelbase.

One of the aspects I want to really work out for this project is the ability to change the ride height of the Jeep so I can run larger tires offroad and smaller tires on the road. My preference is 35's on the road and somewhere around 40's offroad. That's why I'm leaning toward the air shocks, due to their ease of changing ride height.

I've read several places where the on road ride quality isn't so hot with Fox shocks. I'm willing to give up some ride quality in exchange for being able to easily change the ride height of the vehicle.

If you guys have had experience with both air shocks and/or gas coilovers, please let me know your thoughts.


thanks,
.b

how much up travel do you want for wheelin the big tires?

I'm not really sure. I don't want to cut my fender opening anymore than it already is, so that may limit the up travel.

Here's how it sits with 37's on it.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3042/2754583092_47168b2382_o.jpg

I cut out the back half of the frame to eliminate the down turn portion of the frame, and I brought the frame rails in closer to each other so I could run the shocks outboard of the frame rails. That may help some. (Ignore the caption on the below picture. I made that for a different purpose.)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3230/2314786682_a6f3e00d82_o.jpg

The poor handling your going to get with air shocks is really not worth the ability to lift it with N2 Pressure. Without sway bars and extensive tuning, air shocks have a lot of body roll and a tendency to stick in position. Changing your ride height by adding N2 is going change your spring rate quite a bit as well. If you tune them for off-road handling then lower the pressure for on-road, it'll probably be very soft. With either coil-overs or air shocks, tuning them for one ride height then changing the ride height is going make you have to compromise performance in area or another. I think you'd be better off leaving the ride height alone and just change tire size.

We've got a lot of happy customers using coil-overs on daily drivers with 40+ inch tires. They're almost infinitely tune able, so you really don't have to compromise much between on and off-road performance. Give us a call if you have any tech questions regarding spring rates or set up, we'd be happy to help!

The poor handling your going to get with air shocks is really not worth the ability to lift it with N2 Pressure. Without sway bars and extensive tuning, air shocks have a lot of body roll and a tendency to stick in position. Changing your ride height by adding N2 is going change your spring rate quite a bit as well. If you tune them for off-road handling then lower the pressure for on-road, it'll probably be very soft. With either coil-overs or air shocks, tuning them for one ride height then changing the ride height is going make you have to compromise performance in area or another. I think you'd be better off leaving the ride height alone and just change tire size.

We've got a lot of happy customers using coil-overs on daily drivers with 40+ inch tires. They're almost infinitely tune able, so you really don't have to compromise much between on and off-road performance. Give us a call if you have any tech questions regarding spring rates or set up, we'd be happy to help!
That's exactly the type of information I needed. Thanks! That's pretty much in line with what I've heard elsewhere.

Ok, assuming coilovers, would it be possible to get a decent ride on and off road by changing the upper mount position of the shocks? I could build the shock mounts with two mount locations, one for 35's and one for 40's. I haven't seen this done before, and there may be a reason for it, but it's worth asking.

If you wheel with 5-6" of up travel for 40's you could drop your junk 3-4" for 35s for street duty. Then you wouldn't have to change mounts. Just adjust your coilovers.

Just adjust your coilovers.Is there an easier (faster) way to adjust coilovers other than with a spanner wrench and turning the spring tension nut?

That's exactly the type of information I needed. Thanks! That's pretty much in line with what I've heard elsewhere.

Ok, assuming coilovers, would it be possible to get a decent ride on and off road by changing the upper mount position of the shocks? I could build the shock mounts with two mount locations, one for 35's and one for 40's. I haven't seen this done before, and there may be a reason for it, but it's worth asking.


Having 2 sets of mounts would probably be the best way to do it since it won't change how much shaft you have showing at ride height, just the vehicle in relation to the shock. I think the reason you don't see this done too often is because you can get a decent ride on and off road without changing the mounts at all. It seems like you'll be going through more trouble than it's worth when you can improve the handling with much simpler methods like sway bars or shock tuning.

I'm not so much worried about the on road ride quality as much as I am the height of the vehicle. I don't want it to be any higher than it absolutely needs to be. I guess in the end there's really not that much difference needed in ride height for a 35" vs. a 40" tire. Maybe I'll just set it up for 40's and deal with the extra ride height on the road. Sure would be slick to change the ride height easily, though. Airbags? Maybe airbags affecting the upper shock mount position? I could then have pins to go through the shock mounts securing the upper shock mount and just use the bags to raise and lower the vehicle in between mount positions. Wow, that sounds like a lot of work, though. Coilovers are looking better all the time. :-)

Really sounds like more trouble than it's worth, but no doubt that it would be cool.

Really sounds like more trouble than it's worth, but no doubt that it would be cool.That's kind of the theme of my build, though. :D

Is there an easier (faster) way to adjust coilovers other than with a spanner wrench and turning the spring tension nut?

the 1 time I adjusted my coilovers I just flexed out my junk and turned the adjustment sleeve by hand. If you keep yours maintained it is easy to spin them around. Even with the extra mounting holes that seems like an awful lot of work. Just buy some 40" tires you can run on road and build your junk low to the ground. :smokin:

word on the street is foa is workin on 2.0 coil overs priced to compare to airshocks soon... end of year maybe? :smokin:

word on the street is foa is workin on 2.0 coil overs priced to compare to airshocks soon... end of year maybe? :smokin:

That would be good, but I dont think I can wait that long.

sounds like you just need to run airbags. that is the only way to get the big change in ride height.you could do it with a touch of a button then.just run 40's everywhere and be done with it!

I would try to find a really nice set of 40" trail tires, and then run a set of all terrain or less aggressive 37's.



Im assuming your not going for gas mileage savvy on the rig your building

Im assuming your not going for gas mileage savvy on the rig your buildingI don't necessarily want to intentionally lower the MPG, but it's not a major concern. It won't literally be a "daily" driver. I just want it to perform on the road enough to take it on a weekend trip.

I thought a lot about airbags early on, but decided they were too much work for what I was using the vehicle for. I think I'm going to go with the obvious choice and just set it up for 37's on the road and clearance everything enough to run 40's offroad. That's definitely the easiest thing to do and probably the cheapest, and the least amount of trouble to swap between tires.

The guys @ Poly have the insight on the TJ-coilover-1ton market. From DDs to trail rigs they've had their hand in a bunch of setups. They know where to start to get you the ride height and valving your looking for.
Give them a call (their #s in shaggydoo's sig)

Thanks for the info.

Is there an easier (faster) way to adjust coilovers other than with a spanner wrench and turning the spring tension nut?

King make a c/o with an airbag on the top

King make a c/o with an airbag on the topThat would be perfect. Do you have any further information on that? I couldn't find it on their site.

saw it a Sand Addiction magazine If I remeber I thing it might have been on a Funco Motorsports sand car

I found a picture of an air shock with an airbag on the bottom on the front of a rail buggy, but nothing yet on coilovers. That would be the perfect setup for my application, though.

I also was watching Spike and saw them installing some air bag struts and the looked like they were 2.5 ID and could go in place of you upper spring on a dual rate

Are you talking about the Mustang build on Muscle Car? I think I saw what you're talking about last night.

At this point I think I'm going one of two ways:

Multi-position shock mount
Stop whining and deal with extra ride when running 35's

It was an impala on Hot rod

I'll see if I can dig that one up.

word on the street is foa is workin on 2.0 coil overs priced to compare to airshocks soon... end of year maybe? :smokin:

not to drag this one out again, but it looks like FOA released their coilovers this month. $200 for a 16" coilover. :smokin:

http://f-o-a.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=10&products_id=5

Price seems good. Do you know anyone that has experience with these?

not to drag this one out again, but it looks like FOA released their coilovers this month. $200 for a 16" coilover. :smokin:

http://f-o-a.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=10&products_id=5

this month uh? :shaking:

This is quite out-of-the-box, but if you used a cantilever as an upper coilover mount, which pivots somewhere on the frame, and the other end would be able to be locked in on two positions(or however many you want) to change ride height. They could be mechanically locked in, or you could go real trick and use hydraulic ram(s) to adjust height. Would be a good idea to have a "lock" to keep stuff up should the cylinder fail.

Stuff would have to be stupid-beefy to put up to the abuse, and having more than 3" adjustment would probably make packaging really hard, but would be very cool. There's also the issue of adjusting the springs effective rate and stuff as angles would change slightly, but that would have to be experimented with.

At this point I'm just ready to wheel this thing. I think I'm just going to go with coilovers. If I do anything with adjustment, I will probably just make the shock mount in a way where I can drop it down a couple of inches to accommodate the larger tires. I won't think I would be changing it that often anyway.

not to drag this one out again, but it looks like FOA released their coilovers this month. $200 for a 16" coilover. :smokin:

http://f-o-a.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=10&products_id=5

Those shocks the 2.5" size. The 2.0's haven't come out yet. Probably Dec. from what I'm told.

Those shocks the 2.5" size. The 2.0's haven't come out yet. Probably Dec. from what I'm told.

and im waitin till then!!!

One thing that no one has seem to mention, is when you change the lift hieght you are changing your drive line angles. Not as much of a problem with a two u-joint shaft, as long as you have the movement required in the joint. If your running a double cardain then pinion angle will be off causing a vibration. Not to mention drive shaft lenghts. I thinking your heading in the right direction just setting it up for one tire size. Good luck.

One thing that no one has seem to mention, is when you change the lift hieght you are changing your drive line angles. Not as much of a problem with a two u-joint shaft, as long as you have the movement required in the joint. If your running a double cardain then pinion angle will be off causing a vibration. Not to mention drive shaft lenghts. I thinking your heading in the right direction just setting it up for one tire size. Good luck.

i think the amount of adustable lift achievable will not cuase any big prob at all