gonna start building my 69 1 ton into a trail truck. cant decide to run dana 60/14 bolt or run rockwells.

going to be running a 468bb/sm465/205 with 39.5 cut boggers..

If there's any doubt that tons will hold up, go rocks from the start, with 39.5s though you SHOULD be safe with a 60 up front. I'd never even think about worrying about a 14ff.

If there's any doubt that tons will hold up, go rocks from the start, with 39.5s though you SHOULD be safe with a 60 up front. I'd never even think about worrying about a 14ff.




I concur.

i only ask because a guy in our 4x4 club, runs 35" cut boggers and keeps break ctm u joints. hes pretty hard on the truck. i can also get the rockwells for around 1000 set

Odd...CTM u joints in what? A Dana 44?

I cant believe that someone would be breaking (repeatedly no less) CTM 60 joints with 35"s...but I suppose there is a first time for everything

If I could go back and do it again on mine, I'd run some U1300s and 39-42s...I guess the tons on 44s will have to do for a while. But the question is, how are YOU planning on wheeling your truck?

If he's breaking D60 CTMs, he may have a bent housing :laughing:

i only ask because a guy in our 4x4 club, runs 35" cut boggers and keeps break ctm u joints. hes pretty hard on the truck. i can also get the rockwells for around 1000 set

Odd...CTM u joints in what? A Dana 44?

I cant believe that someone would be breaking (repeatedly no less) CTM 60 joints with 35"s...but I suppose there is a first time for everything

If I could go back and do it again on mine, I'd run some U1300s and 39-42s...I guess the tons on 44s will have to do for a while. But the question is, how are YOU planning on wheeling your truck?

If he's breaking D60 CTMs, he may have a bent housing :laughing:





That's assuming they are in-fact CTM's.

i run a 454 39.5 boggers kept upgrading the d60 shafts as i broke them now i can't keep ring & pinions. i would go with the rockwells!!

I had the 60/14 combo in my 98 and kept destroying shafts in the front (no ctms though) and kept breaking detroits in the rear (sheared the teeth off of the side cogs) I have now done a dual steering rockwell combo on my truck and have yet to destroy them, I am limited on my flex though thats in another post. For the last question I'm running 16 R24's on my rig basically a small terra tire. MY OPINION is that I would run the rocks and if you use the Oversun shafts you will never have a problem.

the ctms are in a dana 60. and yes there ctm joints. cause im running the same in my dana 60 under my 97 chevy k2500 and we order 10 at once.

im thinking about going rockwells

i run a 454 39.5 boggers kept upgrading the d60 shafts as i broke them now i can't keep ring & pinions. i would go with the rockwells!!

I would have to agree with you Doug. I wish i had gone right to Rocks from the start. I could have bought my 2 steer rocks, pinion brakes, mohawk pans and had money towards hydrolic steering for what i have in my D-44. If someone were to go with a D-60 it would have to be a HP D-60 for the stronger ring/pinion IMO.

i can also get the rockwells for around 1000 set


That's the cheapest part of usin rocks,gettin all the shit to use em is the $$$ part.

That's the cheapest part of usin rocks,gettin all the shit to use em is the $$$ part.




Bingo.


The stock Rocks are cheap.

It's the awesome bling-bling upgrades that cost $$!!



I almost went Rocks with my 1st Gen Blazer but decided against it.

I have 4 trucks with built 1 tons and wish they all had 2 1/2 tons.
Ouverson Rockwells or Mog U-1000,1300 are the ultimate axles.

do yuo guys think rockwells, 40's and a shortbed chevy would be tip over easily

not really because you are adding so much unsprung weight to the vehicle, I know that I will probably be flamed here but I actually left the drum brakes on my rocks for the extra unsprung weight. Another thing to think about is how tall are you going to make this truck? 3-6-12-20 inches???? the amount of lift and body lift will also determine your roll level.

I wouldnt deal with the expence/trouble of Rockwells if I was just runnin 40's.

do yuo guys think rockwells, 40's and a shortbed chevy would be tip over easily

not really because you are adding so much unsprung weight to the vehicle, I know that I will probably be flamed here but I actually left the drum brakes on my rocks for the extra unsprung weight. Another thing to think about is how tall are you going to make this truck? 3-6-12-20 inches???? the amount of lift and body lift will also determine your roll level.





I like to use the 'Go as wide as you go tall' rule.

Meaning if you're comfortable with your current set up and would like to go taller, try to go wider at the same time.

The key is center of gravity, anyone can bolt on a huge lift and huge rubber, but it wont wheel very long right side up. You need to put a body lift or cut out the fenders (a lot). The body of your truck is light in comparison to raising the body and chasis. The guy who said unsprung weight is good is right too, but the drum brakes are a little over the top. Find a place under your rig for batt, tools and spare parts, this is difficult but will help. move your bump stops up if you can without clearence issues. If your not banging rocks underneath once in a while your too tall.
Seeya on the trail

The key is center of gravity, anyone can bolt on a huge lift and huge rubber, but it wont wheel very long right side up. You need to put a body lift or cut out the fenders (a lot). The body of your truck is light in comparison to raising the body and chasis. The guy who said unsprung weight is good is right too, but the drum brakes are a little over the top. Find a place under your rig for batt, tools and spare parts, this is difficult but will help. move your bump stops up if you can without clearence issues. If your not banging rocks underneath once in a while your too tall.
Seeya on the trail

Did you just suggest going body lift is the best way to clear rubber when going Rocks? That's the dumbest thing I've heard today. Body lifts are occasionally required for one reason or another, but a body lift to clear rubber is lazy and wrong.

If someone were to go with a D-60 it would have to be a HP D-60 for the stronger ring/pinion IMO.

isnt the hp weaker since it is on the coast side of the gear or what ever technical term there is to describe that. or for lack of a better example if it were stronger then every towing hauling axle would be a high pinion? correct?

no, hence the term reverse cut.

isnt the hp weaker since it is on the coast side of the gear or what ever technical term there is to describe that. or for lack of a better example if it were stronger then every towing hauling axle would be a high pinion? correct?

it is not weaker in a front drive application. it IS weaker in a rear drive application.

i have run both the 60s and the rockwells. loved my 60s with 39 boggers. when i went to 42 inch irragation tires (heavy) i never broke anything and that setup did good. but i hated gritten my teeth every time i bounced the truck or had to turn the tires in a bind. now with rockwells my axles are the last thing on my mind when im on the trail. if you plan on going bigger than 39s one day id go with the rocks.


what sealed the deal with me:
rocks- 6.72s, more weight down low, stronger. zero drive line angle,good clearance. hydro steerin
60s-was gone hafta buy steering and gears, kept bending diff covers, didntlike my drive line angles,

im not bashing 60s i jus like my rocks better jus my 2cents

Did you just suggest going body lift is the best way to clear rubber when going Rocks? That's the dumbest thing I've heard today. Body lifts are occasionally required for one reason or another, but a body lift to clear rubber is lazy and wrong.

So you would rather achieve the same ground clearance that I would get with a body lift but also raise the bulk of the weight of your vehichle (mtr,trany,trans,frame,tank, etc...) Plus you will increase the leverage that your axles have in relation to your center of gravity (axle wrap, steering, roll, etc...) No thanks. I have been wheeling for 10 years now, and mine is the only vehichle that has never been upside down with the group I've wheeled with.

Did you just suggest going body lift is the best way to clear rubber when going Rocks? That's the dumbest thing I've heard today. Body lifts are occasionally required for one reason or another, but a body lift to clear rubber is lazy and wrong.

So you would rather achieve the same ground clearance that I would get with a body lift but also raise the bulk of the weight of your vehichle (mtr,trany,trans,frame,tank, etc...) Plus you will increase the leverage that your axles have in relation to your center of gravity (axle wrap, steering, roll, etc...) No thanks. I have been wheeling for 10 years now, and mine is the only vehichle that has never been upside down with the group I've wheeled with.

So you would rather achieve the same ground clearance that I would get with a body lift but also raise the bulk of the weight of your vehichle (mtr,trany,trans,frame,tank, etc...) Plus you will increase the leverage that your axles have in relation to your center of gravity (axle wrap, steering, roll, etc...) No thanks. I have been wheeling for 10 years now, and mine is the only vehichle that has never been upside down with the group I've wheeled with.

how does a body lift give you ground clearance again?

how does a body lift give you ground clearance again?

It moves the peice of metal protecting the underside of your ass further away from the rocks.

Thats about it.

how does a body lift give you ground clearance again?

Allows the use of larger tires.

body lift are for trailer queens... no point if your gonna wheel.

im gonne be running 8 inches of lift and cut the fenders.

body lift = more body clearance and body roll. suspension lift = ground clearance no body roll. Bigger tires = diff clearance and ground clearance. I have a small body lift so when I am ready, I can put my T case up higher. Otherwise I would never ever run a body lift. You want to get everything on the underside of your rig up high so it doesn't hit the rocks. Go with big tires and no fenders if it would help but don't put a body lift on unless you have to.

i run a 454 39.5 boggers kept upgrading the d60 shafts as i broke them now i can't keep ring & pinions. i would go with the rockwells!!

You must be one crazy fuckin driver! Or, set up is not up to my standards. Given your location, I suspect the prior reason.
I on the other hand run 42's with tons. Kept upgrading shafts until I found the sweet spot, Bobby Long D60 CV's and couldn't be happier. I haven't broke anything in and unprecidented 5 trips, 3 of em to the Hammers. For west coast wheeling, I would not want the wieght of the Rocks. It has amazed me how much better mine wheeled when I shaved off 300#'s and looking for more.

You must be one crazy fuckin driver! Or, set up is not up to my standards. Given your location, I suspect the prior reason.
I on the other hand run 42's with tons. Kept upgrading shafts until I found the sweet spot, Bobby Long D60 CV's and couldn't be happier. I haven't broke anything in and unprecidented 5 trips, 3 of em to the Hammers. For west coast wheeling, I would not want the wieght of the Rocks. It has amazed me how much better mine wheeled when I shaved off 300#'s and looking for more.

not the r&p set up.put my k10 on a diet in 06 dropped from 6500# to 5500# wheeled much better but the dana 60 doesn't do it.i wheel with a 7000# blazer on rocks he beets it 10x harder than i with no break age.i'v lost all faith in the axle,i don't do front digs anymore in fear of the p.o.s breaking.

maybe having only 3000 lbs is what keeps my teensy little HP dana 44 alive with 38.5s, I guess..

body lift are for trailer queens... no point if your gonna wheel.

im gonne be running 8 inches of lift and cut the fenders.

body lifts are not for trailer queens, they are for speed bump flexers.

body lift = more body clearance and body roll. suspension lift = ground clearance no body roll. Bigger tires = diff clearance and ground clearance. I have a small body lift so when I am ready, I can put my T case up higher. Otherwise I would never ever run a body lift. You want to get everything on the underside of your rig up high so it doesn't hit the rocks. Go with big tires and no fenders if it would help but don't put a body lift on unless you have to.

how does a suspension lift equal no body roll?

everything we build for is to get softer flexier suspension, inherently comes body roll, period. you can help eliminate it with a sway bar, thats why they make disconn.ects.

True True. I just meant that the body is mounted to the chassis more firmly. The link between the body and chassis is mushier with a body lift. The body will roll with the chassis.

I happen to agree. Body lift is half assed. It ruins mounts (especially in 2nd gens) and is just a street queen excuse to not cut the fenders. Taking my 3in body lift off and opening up the fenders was one of the best decisions I ever made.

Granted my truck isnt as much of a drive it around town and be tall truck and more of a shit it flexes, and can actually tackle objects truck now.

Btw I'm confused on this unsprung weight arguement. I thought unsprung weight was really bad for rocks. I thought thats what the whole innovation to hi-9 axles and toy/60 hybrid axles was.

True True. I just meant that the body is mounted to the chassis more firmly. The link between the body and chassis is mushier with a body lift. The body will roll with the chassis.

wtf?

how is a body lift softer on the chassis?

it has the same body mounts, it uses solid spacer pucks.


what it will do is give you chassis more leverage on the cab sheet metal and is much more likely to tear the cab and bed where they mount.

depends on how you build. reguard less of what you build, the higher the % of weight that makes up the unsprung weight ei: axles tires and springs, the more stable and lower the center of gravity will be.

if i built a moong buggy with a alum 4cyl fwd i would have 6-700 chassis, now if i put toy axles and 36" sires it would make a very light very capable rig. if i put rocks under it i would be able to stand the thing up 85* before it tiped backwards. it is a game and it is give and take.

ive been on this site ever since i was 15. and i used to watch people bitch back and forth about body lifts. ive always liked my bodylifts and they gave me the extra clearance i sometimes needed. im 21 now, and after 6 years of hard wheeling i stood in front of my truck last night and for the first time ever i said it ''body lifts suck''. my frame is cracked in two new places because my body being 3'' from the frame lets it tweak back and forth too much. body mounts are shot and i have ripped the two front bolts through the body itself

i have trimmed the crap out of my fenders walked both axles back and forward and tires still scrub under hard stuffage. so i guess bodylifts are a nessesary evil (if you plan on runnin fenders), but they still suck in my book.

The important question is, where the hell are you getting rocks for $1000 a set! If they are that cheap price me some 5 tons!

i have trimmed the crap out of my fenders walked both axles back and forward and tires still scrub under hard stuffage. so i guess bodylifts are a nessesary evil (if you plan on runnin fenders), but they still suck in my book.

Keep on cutting.... There are plenty of rigs with 4" lifts and 38-44" tires running around. Look at low-cab-forward trucks... the factory trimmed the doors to get them to fit :D

And there is no reason to put a body lift on to clear your clocked or lifted t-case. Just cut the floor pan. If you look under the passenger seat you can see the top of the 205 sticking thru the floor where I clearanced mine...

The important question is, where the hell are you getting rocks for $1000 a set! If they are that cheap price me some 5 tons!

I would wonder if that is for 2 fronts or not? I picked up 2 fronts for my build off of Ebay. 750 ea. The guy has 100's of fronts (I'm sure rears too), the good ones u joint style shafts. I'm sure he had 5 ton ones too for the guy that was looking for them. Here is the link.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=013&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=230272121396&rd=1

I was in this same boat a mo. ago. I had my tons ready for my build. Almost everything there and ready to go. When I thought about all the money I was going to have in the tons just so I could beat on them a little it hit me. Why not start out with something a little stronger. When they showed the shaft difference on Extreme4x4 on the truggy build that was all I needed to be pushed over the edge. And once I got my hands on them there was a VERY clear difference between the axles as far as shafts, spindles, knuckles etc. Everything was much bigger. Don't be confused by the cheap cost up front of rockwells as there are some things to think about. If you mohawk them you will have 125 a cover in that. If you want to go to the super 8 8x6.5 bolt patern you will have 480 a corner in that. full hydro...... the list goes on and on. But these were things I was going to have to do to the Tons to get them to the level I wanted to be at. As stated before the drive line angles are a huge plus. On 38.5's you shouldn't have to upgrade shafts (depending o how hard you beat on them). They come already geared up. Other than ride height I don't know why anyone would shy away from them. I knew nothing about them and feel like I have some decent pics on my build thread if you wanted to see what you are geting into.
http://pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=680948

1000 is for 2.5 rockwells. one steer and one rear. or 1200 for 2 steers.

wtf?

how is a body lift softer on the chassis?

it has the same body mounts, it uses solid spacer pucks.


what it will do is give you chassis more leverage on the cab sheet metal and is much more likely to tear the cab and bed where they mount.

My bad, my body lift is the Energy Suspension Urethane body lift. No rigid puck. Either way, I am agreeing with you guys. Body lift is bad for offroading in most cases.