What's your take?

http://www.survival-enterprises.com/renogunshow.html

WARNING about Gun Shows!

Gun show promoters (in general) have been cooperating with the ATF by allowing ATF agents to covertly and freely move about within their shows, setting up unsuspecting gun show participants, both in the isle and behind the tables. They justify this by saying "if they weren't doing anything wrong, they'll have no problems from the Feds".

These people are nothing but cowards and traitors who would willingly hand over their Mother to the Gestapo for a moldy crust of bread.

Some promoters have the personal integrity to announce that the Feds are monitoring their show, thereby warning the participants of the danger.

Some of these promoters have no personal integrity whatsoever. They could care less about the effects on the customers that pay to enter their show or the gun dealers/collectors that have tables at their show. These unscrupulous gun show promoters are in it ONLY for the money!

It has been seen that many of these self-serving promoters are giving ATF agents free tables at their shows (for entrapment purposes). Some of these promoters have even gone so far as to work WITH the ATF by convincing certain dealers to do things they wouldn't normally do, like buying or selling guns (unknowingly illegally), which ends up getting that dealer/collector/public arrested and their life ruined!

Promoters are often coerced, threatened and many times promised a "reward" for allowing these Federal criminals to hunt on their property.

WARNING about the Big Reno Gun Shows!

One such scum ball is the promoter of the Big Reno Gun Shows (held at the Reno Hilton in Reno, Nevada). His name is Louis Fascio. He has (and is) working openly with agents of the ATF.

He knowingly allows them to setup various sting operations (while they act as legitimate gun dealers renting tables) - he allows them free access to his records on dealers and other venders at his show - he has even gone as far as enticing ATF "targets" (dealers that are slated for entrapment) to (and I quote) "put more guns out on your tables", knowing full well that ALL guns on the tables WILL be confiscated by the ATF!

And then this POS is promised a "reward" (% of ATF's "take") for everything that is confiscated!!

In days past, the Reno Hilton Gun Shows used to be a good, family oriented show. It has now turned into nothing more than a Government operated trap for unsuspecting participants. ATF agents are even following people home from the show and arresting them!

The ATF writes down license plate numbers in the parking lot of the Reno Hilton (during Louis Fascio's gun show) and runs the addresses to see who owns that vehicle. They also video tape outside and inside the gun show. So, if you attend ANY of Louis Fascio's Hilton Gun Shows, they already know about you!

Louis Fascio has degraded the Big Reno Shows into nothing but a feeding frenzy for the Feds. He has shamed and insulted ALL gun owners in America with his cowardly, self serving actions. He is the scum you scrap off the bottom of your boots BEFORE you walk in a cow pasture!

He is a staunch Democrat and a Jew, and acts both parts per "the book". He's "pro gun" only as long as the idiots pay him to sell at his shows and the unknowing public willingly walk into his professional "entrapment center", and they even pay him to set them up!

He will sell his soul (as his father did before him) for 20 pieces of silver. Hell, he'll do it for 10 pieces! His existence is so disgusting that to insult him would only raise his stature to that of a single celled infectious creature.

All in the name of the mighty $$$!

You made you're Daddy proud, Louis. Like Father - like scum.

Unless you don't mind being under the eye of "Big Brother", being entrapped, having your life ruined and everything you owned stolen by the Feds; and if you don't mind giving your hard earned money to the Feds' whore at the Big Reno Gun Show, NEVER GO THERE AGAIN!

Warn everyone you can.

Did he just pull the jew card.......... really?

I mean Democrat Ok, but he kinda killed his credibility with the personal attacks.

Other than that I have no personal experience and I would like to hear everyone elses take.

I don't think the promoters "let" the ATF in, they go if they want to. In Richmond the ATF and local police were harassing patrons of the shows, but that's supposedly stopped.

Yeah, I'd just like to point out those were the writers words, not mine. :) The jew thing was a bit much for sure.

I dont have any personal experience either, but I would not put it past them to pull this kind of stuff.

The way it was written sounds more like an attack, or smear, campaign.
I prefer more facts before I make a decision.

may get flammed for this, but whats the big deal?

If you are doing something illegal then you need to get busted.

If you aren't doing anything illegal then you don't have anything to worry about.

may get flammed for this, but whats the big deal?

If you are doing something illegal then you need to get busted.

If you aren't doing anything illegal then you don't have anything to worry about.
Are you knowledgeable of every facet of California and inter state commerce and guns laws? That's who they're arresting as well, not just the criminals.

What's your take?

http://www.survival-enterprises.com/renogunshow.html

WARNING about Gun Shows!

Gun show promoters (in general) have been cooperating with the ATF by allowing ATF agents to covertly and freely move about within their shows, setting up unsuspecting gun show participants, both in the isle and behind the tables. They justify this by saying "if they weren't doing anything wrong, they'll have no problems from the Feds".

These people are nothing but cowards and traitors who would willingly hand over their Mother to the Gestapo for a moldy crust of bread.

Some promoters have the personal integrity to announce that the Feds are monitoring their show, thereby warning the participants of the danger.

Some of these promoters have no personal integrity whatsoever. They could care less about the effects on the customers that pay to enter their show or the gun dealers/collectors that have tables at their show. These unscrupulous gun show promoters are in it ONLY for the money!

It has been seen that many of these self-serving promoters are giving ATF agents free tables at their shows (for entrapment purposes). Some of these promoters have even gone so far as to work WITH the ATF by convincing certain dealers to do things they wouldn't normally do, like buying or selling guns (unknowingly illegally), which ends up getting that dealer/collector/public arrested and their life ruined!

Promoters are often coerced, threatened and many times promised a "reward" for allowing these Federal criminals to hunt on their property.

WARNING about the Big Reno Gun Shows!

One such scum ball is the promoter of the Big Reno Gun Shows (held at the Reno Hilton in Reno, Nevada). His name is Louis Fascio. He has (and is) working openly with agents of the ATF.

He knowingly allows them to setup various sting operations (while they act as legitimate gun dealers renting tables) - he allows them free access to his records on dealers and other venders at his show - he has even gone as far as enticing ATF "targets" (dealers that are slated for entrapment) to (and I quote) "put more guns out on your tables", knowing full well that ALL guns on the tables WILL be confiscated by the ATF!

And then this POS is promised a "reward" (% of ATF's "take") for everything that is confiscated!!

In days past, the Reno Hilton Gun Shows used to be a good, family oriented show. It has now turned into nothing more than a Government operated trap for unsuspecting participants. ATF agents are even following people home from the show and arresting them!

The ATF writes down license plate numbers in the parking lot of the Reno Hilton (during Louis Fascio's gun show) and runs the addresses to see who owns that vehicle. They also video tape outside and inside the gun show. So, if you attend ANY of Louis Fascio's Hilton Gun Shows, they already know about you!

Louis Fascio has degraded the Big Reno Shows into nothing but a feeding frenzy for the Feds. He has shamed and insulted ALL gun owners in America with his cowardly, self serving actions. He is the scum you scrap off the bottom of your boots BEFORE you walk in a cow pasture!

He is a staunch Democrat and a Jew, and acts both parts per "the book". He's "pro gun" only as long as the idiots pay him to sell at his shows and the unknowing public willingly walk into his professional "entrapment center", and they even pay him to set them up!

He will sell his soul (as his father did before him) for 20 pieces of silver. Hell, he'll do it for 10 pieces! His existence is so disgusting that to insult him would only raise his stature to that of a single celled infectious creature.

All in the name of the mighty $$$!

You made you're Daddy proud, Louis. Like Father - like scum.

Unless you don't mind being under the eye of "Big Brother", being entrapped, having your life ruined and everything you owned stolen by the Feds; and if you don't mind giving your hard earned money to the Feds' whore at the Big Reno Gun Show, NEVER GO THERE AGAIN!

Warn everyone you can.


R.

This has been going on at the shows since before ALGORE invented the internet. Particularly in states that have light weight laws like MT where folks "fudge" or do the parking lot sales and in states that have the most draconian laws like NY, CA MA where its the "state of the state" thing... :shaking:

Bottom line, iffen the price is too good to be true or iffen its circumventing regular practice for the shows in the state its probably illegal.

D.

1) the ATF is already at shows
2) they are already at shows doing shady shit
3) I have been personally asked to sell/do shady shit.

watch your ass, don't do anything questionable or buy a shady deal and your good.

1) the ATF is already at shows
2) they are already at shows doing shady shit
3) I have been personally asked to sell/do shady shit.

watch your ass, don't do anything questionable or buy a shady deal and your good.

Yup.

About 2 years ago I watched as an ATF troll was going from table to table asking for information to convert his AR to full auto and if the seller could provide him with the parts to do it. He might as well of had ATF stenciled on his forehead :laughing:

watch your ass, don't do anything questionable or buy a shady deal and your good.

Think I could talk ya into selling me 51# of Goex on a straw purchase and sending it parcel post to MT... ;) :D

D.

Yup.

About 2 years ago I watched as an ATF troll was going from table to table asking for information to convert his AR to full auto and if the seller could provide him with the parts to do it. He might as well of had ATF stenciled on his forehead :laughing:

Mine was stereotypical "gangsta" asking me if he could buy my XD and if there was no "background check" as I was racking a round outside the show (reloading to CCW it because you can't have it loaded in the show) and watching a few guys like you described.
Oh and the "husband and wife" teams trying to do a straw purchase.

Think I could talk ya into selling me 51# of Goex on a straw purchase and sending it parcel post to MT... ;) :D

D.

the USPS frowns on live ammo/explosive shipping. Me and pete learned that one already, thanks :laughing:

Every local show I've been to has been crawling with uniformed local PD; I guess I just always assumed that it'd be crawling with plainclothes cops (local or whoever) too. Maybe I just don't think like a criminal.

Is the parking-lot-at-the-gunshow-sale the "gunshow loophole" that all the wailing and teeth-gnashing is over? For the life of me, I can't figure out what the "gunshow loophole" that so desperately needs to be closed, is, 'cause I have yet to see a loophole. :confused:

'cause I have yet to see a loophole. :confused:

its not, its just motherfuckers trying to change state laws by saying it only happens at a gun show.

Just to clarify, I agree with the "if you're not doing anything wrong..." thing. I'm not. All I'm looking for is a few extra mags for my XD and M1 carbine, .30 and .350 ammo and to browse at the really cool chit I either cant afford or legally own in CA. That's it. Oh, and a new pocket knife for my sons collection.

I just ran across that site when looking for the hours of operation for the show and after hitting a few links, found an article on what they did to Jerry's Guns in Mesa awhile back. When I found out what happened there, it made me sick and I can see where the writer gets his anger from. Nazi's reborn.

Anyway, just wondered what you guys knew, thats all. And sorry if it's a R.

so why cant you sell a gun in a parking lot? ya gotta meet somewhere, and i aint letin anybody i buy or sell a gun to where i live, they just might want more.

so why cant you sell a gun in a parking lot? ya gotta meet somewhere, and i aint letin anybody i buy or sell a gun to where i live, they just might want more.

There is no reason not to sell one in a parking lot(except for local laws banning it of course.)

The face to face private sale thing is the "gunshow loophole" that McCain and the brady bunch are talking about banning.

I have been personally asked to sell/do shady shit.


CO has a law that ALL transactions must go through a 4473 at the show. I guess this keeps things a little less shadey.

I have seen stuff sold in the parking lot. I don't care one way or the other.

I did have someone approach me once as I was carrying some stuff out ask what I was selling. Told him I was a dealer and everything is on paper. He turned around and walked away.

I have had some people ask some strange questions, but I am always (ok almost always) polite, answer the questions, but am very clear that everything is on paper.

the USPS frowns on live ammo/explosive shipping. Me and pete learned that one already, thanks :laughing:

Even though my local PO is large, the guy behind the counter for that one still remembers my face.

Asked me flat out "Is this ammo", "No sir its just non hazourdous, unloaded brass"

Every local show I've been to has been crawling with uniformed local PD; I guess I just always assumed that it'd be crawling with plainclothes cops (local or whoever) too. Maybe I just don't think like a criminal.

Is the parking-lot-at-the-gunshow-sale the "gunshow loophole" that all the wailing and teeth-gnashing is over? For the life of me, I can't figure out what the "gunshow loophole" that so desperately needs to be closed, is, 'cause I have yet to see a loophole. :confused:

Scott, most of the uniforms are hired security for the show.
As I mentioned above, CO has an All Firearms at the show go through a 4473. other states don't have this law. So non dealers can buy and sell inside the show with out paperwork. This is the loophole everyone talks about. I was basically the same way for a while, WTF is this loophole. Then I realized we were 'special' :D

The parking lot is unregulated. Nothing anyone can do about it.....YET
When/if they pass a law requiring all gunshows to go the way CO did, then they will claim the 'loophole' IS the parking lot. Next step will be to outlaw all private party sales. I don't have an issue with 4473s at gunshows, but then again as a dealer I am required to do them. I do follow the slippery slope principle and can see it going to:

ALL firearms are registerd (like NFA)
You must pay a tax to transfer ALL firearms (like NFA)
ALL firearm sales MUST go through a licensed dealer (Like NFA).

Yeha someones going to say "Pete's a dealer, he would love that" but they would be wrong.

Are you knowledgeable of every facet of California and inter state commerce and guns laws? That's who they're arresting as well, not just the criminals.

Chris,
I am not sure of the point you are making.

A licensed dealer is supposed to be aware of the laws in all other states. Thats why the ATF spends so much on postage each year. Sending out these 5" thick regulation manuals.

I am not allowed to sell ANY firearm to a CA resident. All other state I am not allowed to sell handguns to.

The only exception to that is someone in the military, that has a copy of their PCS orders sending them to CO. I keep a copy of the orders.

There is no reason not to sell one in a parking lot(except for local laws banning it of course.)

The face to face private sale thing is the "gunshow loophole" that McCain and the brady bunch are talking about banning.

Is this just a gun show thing??
I mean; say i see a gun in the local paper or internet that is local and I want to buy it, I have to go to a dealer to sell and buy that sounds crazy, but I aint tryin to argue as to I dont know. But people around here have been selling guns in the paper and in online ads for a long time. I even sent a link to Aloha to check one out to see if it was a deal. (READ I DID NOT ASK HIMTO HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH A DEAL, JUST IS IT WAS A GOOD PRICE):confused:

Is this just a gun show thing??
I mean; say i see a gun in the local paper or internet that is local and I want to buy it, I have to go to a dealer to sell and buy that sounds crazy, but I aint tryin to argue as to I dont know. But people around here have been selling guns in the paper and in online ads for a long time. I even sent a link to Aloha to check one out to see if it was a deal. (READ I DID NOT ASK HIMTO HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH A DEAL, JUST IS IT WAS A GOOD PRICE):confused:

See thats just it, this 'gun show loophole' is really about the private sale of firearms between two individuals.

This is just my opinion, but when ever someone says "we need to close the gun show loophole" what they mean is, NO PRIVATE FIREARMS SALES.

Unfortunately too many people don't see anything wrong with this. SWMBO even said it would be a good thing. "You would make more money". I disagree.
And my response is always "Should you be forced to sell your car through a car dealership and pay them a commission"
How is it any different?
More people are killed by autos every year then guns.
How many people with out a valid drivers license and insurance are on the roads right now?

So the senario I mentioned is probally illegal??

Edited: for sticky keyboard

Ebay got nailed by the ATF a while back for 'net sales that didnt involve FFL types. Thats the main reason they dont allow it anymore, i.e. unregulated interstate sale which is counter the '68 ATF regs and apparently they were liable because they were doing a straw transfer in the eyes of the courts/ATF folks...

D.

Is this just a gun show thing??
I mean; say i see a gun in the local paper or internet that is local and I want to buy it, I have to go to a dealer to sell and buy that sounds crazy, but I aint tryin to argue as to I dont know. But people around here have been selling guns in the paper and in online ads for a long time. I even sent a link to Aloha to check one out to see if it was a deal. (READ I DID NOT ASK HIMTO HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH A DEAL, JUST IS IT WAS A GOOD PRICE):confused:

So the senario I mentioned is probally illegal??

You can (in most states) buy a gun, from another private party, without paperwork, legally.

The seller is in trouble in that situation if he "should have known" that the buyer was a prohibited-from-owning-a-firearm person; the buyer is in trouble if he is a prohibited-from-owning-a-firearm person; if both are legal to own the firearm in question, this is simply what's referred to as a "face to face" (FTF) transfer, and is legal (unless in a state that disallows it, like California).

FTF between citizens of two different states is generally illegal (with exceptions); interstate sales have to go through an FFL in the buyer's state. This is why most auctions on Gunbroker or similar have notes about shipping when they get a copy of the destination FFL.

Interstate gifts get gray; to the best of my knowledge, my father (who lives in California) can give me guns; I don't believe I can legally give him guns without either local-PD registration paperwork or FFL transfer being involved, but I'm not 100% sure on that.

thanks that makes sense, and when i go to gun shows i guess just make shure they are from the buyer home state?

thanks that makes sense, and when i go to gun shows i guess just make shure they are from the buyer home state?

Being overly cautious, if I were selling, I'd only do so within my own state, to somebody with legit-appearing photo ID indicating they're from my own state. I'd rather lose out on selling something than go to jail for screwing up on selling something.

Buying, I'm not as sure about; I'm pretty sure it's OK for me to buy long guns out of state, but not handguns. I believe it's illegal for Californians to buy any guns anywhere outside of Cali, and it may be illegal for residents of some other states (NJ, NY, come to mind as having fairly draconian laws) but I don't know.