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My girlfriend spent the last three days with her mother so that she would have help just in case Tropical Storm Fay got more intense than the six straight days of rain that it turned out to be. Her mom lives in Lake Wales and for those of you unfamiliar with Florida geography, two of our 2004 hurricanes passed through this little town just a few weeks apart. Whatever, this is not the point.

While she was there, she got plenty of time to look through some of her father's stuff that her mom has kept. She called me this morning and said "I found a rifle or a shotgun. It's in a soft storage case and I haven't opened it, but it feels heavy so I know it's not a bb gun. Do you want me to bring it home?"

"Uhhhh, yeah." I'm not one to turn down the chance at getting a free long gun, hand gun, flare gun, pellet gun, rail gun, or what have you.

So two hours later, she walks in with this ancient looking soft "enclosure". I will not call it a case, since this soft sided, cheap, rotting piece of faux leather was only successful at hiding the type of gun inside and trapping moisture. It wouldn't protect the firearm, let alone stop someone who was determined to fire a loaded weapon without ever having to remove it from the wrap. It's in the garbage now (the bag, not the firearm).

I unwrap the piece of trash and see the stock wrapped in an old tube sock. With the barrel pointing at the floor (since I have no idea of its condition, loaded or unloaded) I pull the sock off of the stock and see "Remington Repeating Arms Company". "Sweet", I think, "I've got a nice 870 Wingmaster and another Remington can't be bad." I pull it out of the disintegrating crap that it has been wrapped in for who knows how long, and realize that A) it is a shotgun, B) it is covered in surface rust, and C) I have no idea what model this is.

Who takes care of firearms this way? Shit, man.

It looks like it was either never oiled in its life or stored entirely outdoors in the Florida humidity.

I have spent hours searching Google for info about identifying Remington shotguns. Every site on the first four pages of hits that I receive (no matter what search words I've used) is attempting to sell me another 870 or an 1100. I don't know how to search for pure research type info without getting all of the returns for people trying to sell something. Google Images has been slightly more helpful. The pics usually suck, and cannot be magnified enough to make the detail useful.

Then I figured, "why not ask my seventy five thousand closest friends on Pirate?"

So without further adieu, here are the pictures of what I believe to be a twenty inch barreled 12 gauge.

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h109/soilantgreen/BangBangBang/DSCN2436.jpg

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h109/soilantgreen/BangBangBang/DSCN2433.jpg

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h109/soilantgreen/BangBangBang/DSCN2431.jpg

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h109/soilantgreen/BangBangBang/DSCN2430.jpg

I thought it might be a Model 31, but the receiver doesn't seem to look the same as the pictures of 31s I found.

To hell with it; someone here can tell me what it is.

And better yet, what is the process for attempting to return it to usable condition? Should I hose it down with WD-40 and start scrubbing? A 36 grit Rol-loc disk on a high rpm grinder? Remove the furniture and throw it in some engine rebuilder's hot tank? I've never owned a firearm that is so badly damaged.

It looks to me like a Winchester Model 12. I've seen many of them as there are plenty on the trap line at my gun club. How is the bore on it and it is surface rust or deeply pitted? Model 12's have kinda a cult following and they seem to be great guns. I have seen guys spend 700-800 bucks getting one restored with custom wood and using it over there 3-4K trap specific guns.

Wow, am I a dumbass. :laughing:

If this is the worst mistake I ever make in the things I say on Pirate, I guess I'm getting off lightly. I should be a HGTD but won't do that to you. You deserve the credit for pointing out my inaccuracy. Good eye.

It is indeed a Winchester.

So two hours of searching Remington's site and shotgun forums and the accompanying frustration was for nought. I must have been confused about what I thought that I'd read on the butt plate after coming inside from taking the pictures and "Remington" stuck in my mind when I sat down at the computer.

Next you'll tell me that the green vehicle is not a Crosley Farm-O-Road. :laughing:

The corrosion seems to be surface rust. It is extensive though but has only just begun to etch the surface. The bluing actually looks intact under the pump. The bore looks decent; nothing that firing some #8 birdshot down it wouldn't clean out. :eek:

The action works relatively smoothly and the wood is not in bad shape except for the scar on the pump that may be visible in one photo. On one hand, I want nothing to do with returning it to firing condition since a mistake could cause injury and I don't have experience at restoring firearms. But my guess is that dropping it off at a gunsmith's shop would be prohibitively expensive compared to the price of a modern shotgun.

By the way, the green vehicle is an AMC Mighty Mite not a Crosely Farm-O-Road.

http://www.orlandojeepchat.com/vB/showthread.php?t=3648

Looks like my winchester. I like 'em because you can break it down into two pieces without tools (Gawd I hope I remember this correctly) by pushing the pin at the end of the tube and rotating the tube forward and out, then spinning the entire barrel assembly and voila, the barrel and tube seperate from the action.

It's been at least 10 years since I broke mine down like that, so I could be wrong, but I believe it's correct

edit : http://www.nrapublications.org/TAR/Winchester12.asp

Nice sig!

I'm researching Winchesters now.

EDIT: Here's the breakdown procedure if you're interested.

http://www.nrapublications.org/TAR/Winchester12.asp

SECOND EDIT: I didn't realize when I added that link that you had also added the same link.

If had ingested more vodka at dinner, I would at least have an excuse for some of my asshatery tonight.

Poor old model 12. :(


Great guns man, the old ones are made of nickel steel.

Poor old model 12. :(


Great guns man, the old ones are made of nickel steel.

I am hoping it can be made useful again. The more I read, the more I am sure that I will have one, whether it's this one after repair or another.

The fact that it is likely older (or nearly exactly the same age) than the M422A1 that it is posed with makes it doubly intriguing to me.

get a big can of marvel mystery oil (you should be familiar with that with your choice in vehicles :flipoff2: ) or PB blaster and soak the shit out of it for a few days prior to dissembly.

I would sandblast/ parkerize/ duracoat to "look" like old parkerizing and do it as a "mil" sidearm :evil:

nope its junk send it to me and i will propely dispose of it:flipoff2:

You know, thank God that looks mostly like surface rust, but what a complete disaster, I mean, that makes me wince just glancing at it. Please, show it some love...

Doc's suggestion is one I was thinking of anyway. I've been looking for pics of Winchester M12 trench guns and wondering if it is possible to make this one a decent clone. If the finish is not repairable, then duracoating may be the best option. If someone locally cannot do the work reasonably, then I may end up mailing it to Doc for some odd finish. My only issue with this is the looks I will surely get from scattergun purists for having a "Hello Kitty" pink camo finish on a formerly valuable old shotgun.

If it can be repaired properly, then I prefer to keep it as original as possible (except for the finish of course). Re-bluing it will surely hurt the value, but at this point returning it to useful condition is far more important than how it may look in the end. The original barrel length (just over 28-3/4 inches from tip to receiver) probably precludes it passing as a short barreled trench gun without some damaging modifications.

(On a side note, the early Viet-Nam era Mighty Mite usually ends up looking "naked" at military vehicle shows. The WWII jeeps all have steel pots, jackets with unit patches, and holstered M1911A1s in them and they add to the authentic look of the jeep. The Mite screams for the correct radio set, a M14, and a Corps flak jacket. A period correct trench gun would be a nice addition. I have resisted the urge to start buying this type of memorabilia since some shows do not want weapons (even edged ones) at their venues and I have typically preferred that the Mite be judged by its own merits not by the amount of "trash" I can throw into it to distract people from its faults. With less than 200 of these left that still run well, I think simply having one that runs and on which everything else works, is interesting enough to people who come to car/jeep/antique/military vehicle shows.)

A couple of Mighty Mites "in country" with weapons visible...
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h109/soilantgreen/Mighty%20Mite/Blevins_1965_0228.jpg
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h109/soilantgreen/Mighty%20Mite/mite3.jpg

Back to the shotgun...
At this point, I still just don't know enough about it to begin the preservation process. I have not located the serial number yet and I feel that is probably the first step to deciding what will be the appropriate next step. If it is a later model (production ended for all practical purposes in 1963, just like the Mite) with nothing to make it rare, valuable, or interesting, then perhaps returning it to a useful (for skeet or fowling) condition will be enough. The length of it will never allow it to replace the parkerized 870 as a home defense weapon. If it turns out to be an early model with the odd chamber size, then I'll make a decision from there.

Doc: When you say to soak it with MMO, it raises another question. Do I soak a rag and gently wipe it down? I am afraid of scrubbing rust off with the rag and scarring the surface more with the abrasive rust flakes. Or do I cover the wood and spray it on and basically just let the excess run off?

Anybody know where the serial numbers are on these? I can't see a single marking through the surface rust and do not want to start "scraping" the wrong area just to search the SN database.

Thanks in advance Model 12 fans.

i would think you would want to PB blast the screws holding the wood on, to get the wood off first then soak it, but thats just me. The wood looks to be in good enought condition to leave it like it is, and i dont think soaking the wood in oil would be a good idea

I had a shotgun in similar condition and I used a wire brush and fine steel wool to remove the rust but it was pitted pretty bad so I just re blued it to stop any rusting and left the pitting it's no show piece but makes a good beater gun

The serial number should be in the bottom front of the receiver where it meets the mag tube. There should also be a serial number on the bottom of the mag tube where it meets the receiver. There should be two arrows, one on each piece that line up if it's a take down model.

Thanks PD. With a little coaxing I was able to discern that under the rust flakes, there is indeed a serial number where you described.

Once I found the arrow, it took a lot of close looking. I actually cannot see the numbers with the naked eye, but the camera on macro cast shadows at the right angle so that I could find the six digit serial number.

Turns out it was made in 1931!

Pictures in a few...

...but not of the serial number!:flipoff2:

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h109/soilantgreen/BangBangBang/DSCN2445.jpg

Sweet, you can save her. :D

I picked up a 1925 vintage model 12 a few weeks ago. You might have one that has a 2.75" chamber, I think mine is 2 9/16 which means I have to use "short shells" in it. You can find more information about them here (http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewforum.php?f=60). Awesome shotguns that throw tight patterns.

Thanks again.

By the way, what model shotgun do you reckon that is in the back of the Mite in Viet-Nam. Not the top picture; the one below that's in the convoy with the M38A1/M170 and the M35?

not sure. I'm not exactly a shotgun aficionado. Kinda looks like a model 12. Model 1897's were used in WWI and saw limited use in WWII. They were produced until the late 50's though and there were over a million of them by the time they closed the line down. That doesn't mean one didn't find its way over to Vietnam though.

BTW some light oil and 0000 steel wool might help in removing that scale. Check out some of the other forums for helpful tips. You might uncover a beautimous shotgun under that ferrous oxide. :)

Get teh wd40 and steel wool out.
Go ahead and clean it up and see how bad it is pitted.
The gun in good condition could have brought $800 or more.
In a worn condition about $450 tops.
In that condition about $150-200.

Your best bet is to scrub the rust off, oil it down, and use it.

I did a demo with another vendor today. He sells electrostatic spray painting equipment and I was showing the customer our paint and how it would work in this application. During a break, I mentioned that I had ended up with a 1931 Winchester Model 12 and he said, "Yeah I picked one up a year ago. A lady gun smith brought it back to life for me because it was really rusty. I paid four hundred dollars to have it cleaned up and re-blued."

My reaction: "Arooo?"

"Yeah, it's a 1914."

"Holy shit! First year of the 12 gauge model?"

He smiles, "Yep! Suck it loser; it's not for sale."


I think I'll lay in a stock of WD-40, Marvel Mystery Oil, and PB Blaster and four-ought steel wool and see what happens. If I can get it cleaned up enough, I will take it to a gunsmith for a functionality test. I'm not firing that thing without a clean bill of health from an expert.

Biggest problem I've got is finding a place to clean it. I can't start this work inside the house and without a garage, I have to do it in the carport.

Perhaps it's time some of the neighbors saw me working on a gun outdoors...

"I said I want it quiet around here after ten PM, or else!!!!"

not sure. I'm not exactly a shotgun aficionado. Kinda looks like a model 12. Model 1897's were used in WWI and saw limited use in WWII. They were produced until the late 50's though and there were over a million of them by the time they closed the line down. That doesn't mean one didn't find its way over to Vietnam though.


I know a couple of sites say the 12 was mass produced up until 63 and then only small production runs were made for special issues.

As a trench gun, it served in all four major wars of the twentieth century but once the supply of new models dried up, they became scarce in Viet-Nam.

The reason I asked is that I showed that picture to a friend once and I think he may have said that it was a model 12. I posted the link on the local forum so maybe he'll check in here and tell us what every model of every weapon in all the pictures is. Every picture of a Mighty Mite that I have of them in Southeast Asia has been posted on a local forum. He never fails to see all kinds of stuff that I wouldn't know. And I consider myself pretty observant.

Here's the rest of the in-country photos I have...

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h109/soilantgreen/Mighty%20Mite/Blevins_0558.jpg
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h109/soilantgreen/Mighty%20Mite/m422.jpg
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h109/soilantgreen/Mighty%20Mite/m422b.jpg
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h109/soilantgreen/Mighty%20Mite/m422e.jpg
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h109/soilantgreen/Mighty%20Mite/NamMite.jpg
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h109/soilantgreen/Mighty%20Mite/m422Nam.jpg

I just returned from Home Depot where I purchased most of what I think I'll be needing tomorrow for my "breakdown and clean" of the 12. I got PB Blaster for the screws that are holding it together and WD-40 for soaking the rust flakes. Four ought steel wool for the light scrubbing and a bag of rags for the cleanup and subsequent oiling. I doubt that this will all come off in one day, but it ought to look better after tomorrow.

What really irks me about these purchases is that we sell most of that stuff, except for the lubricants. I could have put it on my account and boosted my own sales numbers since every little bit helps. I can certainly buy all the abrasives I'll ever need at any of our stores.

I'll snap some pictures while I'm working to show you the progress. I plan on working slowly and methodically as I have never attempted anything like this with a firearm before.

Here's to hoping it comes "clean".

Still a nice score.

Here's to hoping it comes "clean".

Still a nice score.

Thanks John!



Well, I got the trigger assembly out. The only screw that holds it in was not rusted and turned easily. The whole assembly was then hosed down with WD-40 since it already moved freely and I only wanted to protect it overnight until I could get to it in the morning.

Getting the extractor pin out of the inside of the receiver is going to take a little more effort. I don't have A) the right tool handy or B) enough light to figure the "trick" to pulling it.

As things sit right now, it is sitting in the garage with WD-40 soaking into its major joints with a clean rag wrapped around these areas (because if WD-40 leaks onto any of the laundry cleaning equipment, I'm in trouble!).

Inside of the receiver, it appears to be pretty clean. Any dirt in there is old oil and dust with some of the rust flakes thrown in for good measure. Since I see no rust in its action yet, I must assume that the flakes inside are from the outside and have fallen into it by the movement of the action or just from moving the shotgun around with a large beach towel wrapped around it.

Pics in a few of what I've got...

Trigger assembly.
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h109/soilantgreen/BangBangBang/DSCN2452.jpg

Inside of receiver (or "where da trigga assembly wuz", fool.)
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h109/soilantgreen/BangBangBang/DSCN2461.jpg
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h109/soilantgreen/BangBangBang/DSCN2463.jpg

So today I started to seriously tear down the 12. After studying the link that Pony Driver provided and trying to learn the break down procedure, I said "Fawk it, I'll take it apart and see where that goes and how bad it is on the inside."

In retrospect, I would change some things about this if I was to do it again...
1) I would attempt to have better gunsmithing tools. The magnetic bits of my screwdriver collection are decidedly imperfect for this job. They would typically drag small parts around that they came near, pull small screws out of their holes where I had hand-placed them prior to attempting to use the screwdriver, and capture every loose piece of steel wool in the area.

2) I should have bought something more than 0000 steel wool. This is too fine a "grit" for such extensive corrosion. I purchased the four ought stuff because it grated on my sensibilities that I would be "sanding" a firearm at all and wanted to minimize the damage. Whatever. It had to be done and I really should have picked a heavier grade to knock out the worst of the rust.

3) I should have charged the batteries in the Mighty Mite. If I could have moved it out of the way, there is a fold down table attached to the wall of the little building in the car port. This would have saved my back and legs from having to basically work over a piece of old cardboard on the floor. To keep the neighbors from seeing me working on a firearm outdoors, I strategically parked the two TJs and combined with the Mite and the house wall, built a "fort" so that the view was mainly blocked from people who might tell others that "that guy has guns". This arrangement of having my TJ so close allowed me to listen to XM while I worked this afternoon.

4) If I had a printer, I would have printed out everything describing anything about the parts inside of the Winchester M12 or the breakdown procedure. I've never owned one of these, so doing it "blind" wasn't the best idea. It would have been quicker with instructions to read.

But, let's get to it.

I set up my sight blocking, multi-jeep fort at around two PM. First, I tried to protect the wood from oversprayed WD-40 by wrapping the stock in the Home Depot bag. The metal parts of the shotgun have been liberally sprayed with WD-40 during the week and were about as ready as they were going to be for the attack of the steel wool.

I initially tried to break down the mag tube going on P_D's instructions...or what I could remember of them. Eventually I figured that out and it separated from the receiver. Since the finish is so boogered on this thing, I gave up worrying early on about making it worse. At the very least, it will need to be re-blued.

Once the mag tube was off, I was confronted with a really long barrel with light to medium corrosion on about 75% of its surface. I spent the majority of my time with the magazine tube though. I broke it down to its component pieces, or as many of them as possible. I never did figure out how to get the pump handle (action slide) off of it. If it's possible, it will require better tools than what I have.

The follower, spring, magazine plug, magazine plug stop, and magazine plug screws were the biggest challenges. The magazine locking pin and the magazine band bushing screws added a lot of time to this day's work too. At some point, I got so tired of trying to re-assemble it with all of the mag tube components already installed, that I gave up and worked at just getting the tube re-assembled to the receiver with the action slide on the bottom. It turns out that it is possible to do this and then re-install the spring and all that other bullshit with it in place. The biggest issue I have with the shotgun is that the magazine band is still not in the correct position. I believe that it is serviceable where it is, but would rather have it where it is supposed to be, but since my fingernails ended up nearly destroyed (I didn't want to pry it with metal tools.), it will have to wait until I learn the proper procedure.

The barrel appears fine inside. Since I didn't take my shotgun cleaning kit outside, I did not have a cleaning rod to run an oiled rag up and down it so there are small dust bunnies inside.

In any case, all of the areas that were corroded got thoroughly sprayed with WD and abraded with the finest steel wool. The lightest of the rust came off but the heavier stuff is still there but is now well oiled and less red oxide color is evident. It went back together finally with no parts left over (Whewww!) and now I will take it to a gunsmith to see what they think about saving it and making it prettier. I don't want to leave it in this condition without knowing that it is safe to fire and if it can be restored better, then so be it.

Pics...
(Sorry for the backdrop of jeeps and crappy cardboard.)

Trigger assembly actually cleaned up nicely with steel wool. The carrier had a smattering of discoloration, but smoothed out nicely.
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h109/soilantgreen/BangBangBang/DSCN2511.jpg

Light rust beneath action slide.
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h109/soilantgreen/BangBangBang/DSCN2508.jpg

This whole assembly is one irritating piece of shit to deal with putting back together.
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h109/soilantgreen/BangBangBang/DSCN2507.jpg

Between trying to get the mag tube apart and trying to get the camera to focus on close up objects, this is about the time that I'm asking myself "Is Wayne Brady gonna have to choke a bitch?" :laughing:
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h109/soilantgreen/BangBangBang/DSCN2500.jpg

My workspace and the combatants...
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h109/soilantgreen/BangBangBang/DSCN2491.jpg


And finally, this is apparently as good as I can make it with the tools on hand.
Re-assembled on my rocker guard in three shots...
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h109/soilantgreen/BangBangBang/DSCN2515.jpg

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h109/soilantgreen/BangBangBang/DSCN2516.jpg

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h109/soilantgreen/BangBangBang/DSCN2517.jpg

Bore looks clean.
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h109/soilantgreen/BangBangBang/DSCN2519.jpg

Anyway, the action is relatively smooth now, but it still needs checked over by someone smarter than me and we'll see what they think about restoring its finish. It's too good of a gun to be left looking so crappy.

i just had my 22 re blued buy my gunsmiyth and it turned out prrrtay

These two pieces were irritating as hell to figure out. Without instructions, it was really time consuming to fiddle with these two. They are the pieces that go in the end of the mag tube. The lug only fits on one way but it is necessary to get the plug into the barrel so that two little screws can hold it in place while a much larger pin can slide through a different hole.

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h109/soilantgreen/BangBangBang/DSCN2495.jpg

I looked over the shotgun again today in better light, and I think it's easily saveable.

And here's the end of the mag tube stripped of its components. All those holes seem to need to be lined up correctly for re-assembly.

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h109/soilantgreen/BangBangBang/DSCN2494.jpg

Looks good all things considered. Might want to consider having it reblued and enjoy it by shooting it as often as possible. :)

Hell yeah! I like this plan. I'm thinking of taking it to my favorite independent gun store (read "not Bass Pro Shops or Gander Mountain") and see if the guy who helped me build my first M1911A1 is still there. If he is and says it's ok to trust their gunsmith, I might leave it with them. (The previous owner was the gunsmith but when he sold the place, he moved on.)

Explain this one: I loaded up the M12 and headed to Shoot Straight. ( http://www.shootstraightinc.com/ ) I headed to this particular gun/hunting/pistol range location rather than the small independent shop where I have purchased most of my pistols and their aftermarket parts because A) it is close to my house and B) it is open after work.

The biggest location (of their three stores) is huge for a gun store. There are generally at least ten to fifteen guys on the staff available at any given time. The indoor pistol range probably has twenty lanes. They might have one hundred used shotguns and rifles on display at any given time. The interior floor space would easily fit three of my houses. You get how big it is by now, right?

I carried the shotgun in and unwrapped it, explained what it had been through, let them examine it, and announced that I would like one of their gunsmiths to check it out and pronounce it either "worthy of re-bluing" or "unfit for service".

The reaction?

"We don't have a gunsmith."

:laughing:

WTF, over?

"We can't seem to keep a gunsmith. We interview for about a month and eventually hire one of them. They work for about two weeks and quit."

Well, that's a good sign.

Gunsmith is a dying artform. I'm willing to bet that it'll be easier to find virgin sorority skanks than a gunsmith in about 20 years.

That cleaned up suprisingly well. I wouldn't be suprised if you can shoot it for many years to come. :grin:

I set up my sight blocking, multi-jeep fort at around two PM.

I loled at this!

Reblue it yourself. It is not that hard. You already know how to break it down.

Do a complete strip of the finish starting with a razor blade to knock down the rust barnacles. You can get bluing remover to get to white metal. Use blocks for sand paper so you do not loose the sharp edges. Clean the heck out of it with acetone. A good bluing job is mostly prep.

Read the bluing bottle for instructions :laughing:Flood the flats with a bluing soaked pad wider than the flat area. Try to wrap the barrel with a applicator and coat it in one swipe to avoid streaking. Brush out (called carding) with fine steel wool or scotch brite and repeat until you are happy with it.

Cost is 6.99 for the bottle of bluing salts. anothe 10 in sand paper and such. It will look just fine. I wouldn't pay someone to refinish that shotgun. This is a perfect home job candidate. You can't make it look worse:flipoff2:

This is a perfect home job candidate. You can't make it look worse:flipoff2:

Thanks, that's good info. I will look into this since it might be interesting to learn to do it myself.

It is probably telling that the gunsmith at the good shop I took it to has not called me back yet...


I took it to Shooter's Den in Winter Park. They've changed the whole layout so I didn't recognize anything...or anyone. I told the old guy at the counter who I was looking for and he said, "Yeah, he still works here but he ain't here right now."

As I unwrapped the shotgun from the towel, I said "Don't be mad at me; I didn't do this to the gun. I take care of mine."

He still tsk-tsk'd me and said "Never use WD-40 on a firearm."

I thought about saying, "But my friends on Pirate...":laughing:

I told him that I knew that he didn't like it but it worked well as a lubricant while I was "sanding" it.

I'd get it sandblasted and then pic some kind of duracoat that will fit your fancy

I'd get it sandblasted and then pic some kind of duracoat that will fit your fancy

Blech:flipoff2: It is an oldschool shotgun that would look best with an oldschool finish. Too many things are sprayed for expediency these days. But that is only my opinion. :D

Blech:flipoff2: It is an oldschool shotgun that would look best with an oldschool finish. Too many things are sprayed for expediency these days. But that is only my opinion. :D

There are enough duracoat colors to choose from that will keep the old school finish look with new school protection

That would have been a good candidate for Electrolytic Rust Removal, which is cheap and easy.

Here's a youtube video of someone doing it;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5I5WBG5HPw

I've done an entire rusty engine with this. I used PH Riser from the pool supply section which is just sodium carbonate.

Can you believe that they (the folks at the gun store) still have not called me? I looked at the receipt that they gave me when I dropped off the scatter gun to see if it said anything like, "Don't call this guy and the dumb shit will forget that he left it here and then we'll get a free shotgun" or "Anybody who brings a shotgun in that stinks of WD-40 doesn't deserve to get it back".

Nope. They didn't put it in writing that I'm a dumbass. Maybe it goes without saying. :flipoff2:

I think I'm going by tomorrow to see if I can remind them of how many things that I have purchased there over the years. Numerous M1911A1 parts, a Series 70 Mark IV, two or three rifles, about ten thousand magazines, and who knows how much ammunition.

And apparently, they plan on keeping my M12. :mad:

If they don't produce it or explain why I haven't gotten a call, I bet the cops show up quickly when you tell them that someone has stolen a firearm from you.

Not that I would do that, so don't write and say what a bad idea it is.

But damn, how long does it take to "test fire and call customer with estimate for repair and re-blue" as it says? :confused:

Bead blast and manganese phosphate parkerize it. You will end up with a matte black shotgun for alot less hassle.

he prob. started blueing it already my gunsmith does this shit to me all the fucking time
(bring gun in store)
me; hey would you look at this and make sure its all right
gunsmith; ok will you give me a few days i am swamped
(hands gun to gunsmith and does not here from him in a week so i go back in)
me; hows it going you look at my gun yet?
gunsmith;o this one i hope you dont mind i went ahead and refinished it for you that will be fifty dollars
me; o ooka um thanks

Well, yesterday I walked in to the shop and luckily, the guy who I've known for almost twenty years was behind the counter. We shot the shit for a minute or two getting re-aquainted, and then I asked him what happened to my shotgun.

He said, "Well, the gunsmith that we send stuff out to charges sixty bucks just to tear them down and inspect them. I didn't want to have you incur that kind of expense without understanding what it would mean on a gun that's not very valuable."

:confused:

He continued, "And, the re-bluing job would cost near two hundred and fifty bucks. Since nobody asked you if you wanted a gloss, matte, or semi-gloss finish, I wasn't going to send it out and make you have to pay for something you didn't want."

As I was about to ask when this phone call could be expected, he said, "but we'll test fire it for safety for twenty bucks."

So I handed Mark a twenty, he went in the back, and just as I was thinking that I should catch him and tell him that it had been apart and re-assembled by someone who has never even owned one before, I heard, "Fire in the hole!" and then "Boom!"

Well, I didn't hear him screaming, so that's a good sign. "'Must have a machine rest," I surmised. :laughing:

He came back out, handed it back, and said, "Shoots fine. Extractor's good. Inside of the barrel is in great shape. Good job putting it back together. And don't ever put WD-40 on a firearm."

At least the bore's clean now.

I have repaired several guns in similiar to worse shape. You can bead blast it (not sand blast) and hot blue it and it will turn out very nice.
If you dont have the equipment to do that, send it off. The going price to bead blast and hot blue a shotgun is around 150 bucks. A small price to pay for a Model 12.

just my 2 cents worth

Found this site, http://www.hotflashrefinishing.com/shotguns.htm

The new thread by 1010 ( http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=790243 ), got me thinking that I never had updated y'all about my M12. Besides noticing that now my picture links are all broken for some reason, I thought I'd throw it out there that I may indeed learn to reblue the old duck killer myself since nobody wants to do it.

Two Mondays ago, I walked into a gun store to see if they had any ammo that I could use. I haven't seen some calibers for sale in a store for what seems like years, and my job allows me to drive around randomly, so when I pass gun stores, I sometimes stop to see what they've got.

I was inside for twenty minutes and had an order for almost six hundred dollars worth of auto body supplies. 'Turns out that this guy has an antique collection inside and a small crew of guys helping restore stuff. A few years ago, the owner got to thinking about how much he loved Good Humor Ice Cream as a kid, so he wanted a Good Humor bicycle with the cooler on the front for the driver to sell ice cream from.

It now sits in the retail area of the shop and looks as good or better than the day it was built. This led to a desire to sell Good Humor Ice Cream and a call to the company resulted in a nice cooler full of tasty ice cream products. Now, to complete the collection, they are restoring a 65 Ford F250 Good Humor Ice Cream truck. And one of the guys helping was recently fired from his job as the manager of one of the automotive body shop supply shops in town. Thus their interest in buying from me and the resulting large order from people I'd only met twenty minutes before.

At some point in this five hour cold call (that also netted me some pistol ammo), I asked about having the Model 12 re-blued. The owner says, "There's only one guy in the country who I'd trust because everyone else doesn't know what they're doing. And he's gonna cost around five bills."

WTF? How in this economy can there not be someone who wants this work?

Screw it; I might as well do it myself.

This is brownell's oxpho-blue, worked pretty well...

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f56/chevyman_57/IMG_2330.jpg

This is brownell's oxpho-blue, worked pretty well...

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f56/chevyman_57/IMG_2330.jpg

Looks good. I like the para cord on the under folder.

The new thread by 1010 ( http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=790243 ), got me thinking that I never had updated y'all about my M12. Besides noticing that now my picture links are all broken for some reason, I thought I'd throw it out there that I may indeed learn to reblue the old duck killer myself since nobody wants to do it.

Two Mondays ago, I walked into a gun store to see if they had any ammo that I could use. I haven't seen some calibers for sale in a store for what seems like years, and my job allows me to drive around randomly, so when I pass gun stores, I sometimes stop to see what they've got.

I was inside for twenty minutes and had an order for almost six hundred dollars worth of auto body supplies. 'Turns out that this guy has an antique collection inside and a small crew of guys helping restore stuff. A few years ago, the owner got to thinking about how much he loved Good Humor Ice Cream as a kid, so he wanted a Good Humor bicycle with the cooler on the front for the driver to sell ice cream from.

It now sits in the retail area of the shop and looks as good or better than the day it was built. This led to a desire to sell Good Humor Ice Cream and a call to the company resulted in a nice cooler full of tasty ice cream products. Now, to complete the collection, they are restoring a 65 Ford F250 Good Humor Ice Cream truck. And one of the guys helping was recently fired from his job as the manager of one of the automotive body shop supply shops in town. Thus their interest in buying from me and the resulting large order from people I'd only met twenty minutes before.

At some point in this five hour cold call (that also netted me some pistol ammo), I asked about having the Model 12 re-blued. The owner says, "There's only one guy in the country who I'd trust because everyone else doesn't know what they're doing. And he's gonna cost around five bills."

WTF? How in this economy can there not be someone who wants this work?

Screw it; I might as well do it myself.

WOW...cool man.....i started reading this tread and thought as soon as i saw the pics, "remington???" wow it really looks like the gun i just bought...a winchester m12....but reading on looks like you have it figured out. what a cool project, great score. post some pics and info on your blueing, my gun is not as bad as yours was but it could use some refinishing.....i worked on cleaning mine today,also removed the wood dowel in the mag tube so now i can fit 6 shells instead of only 2 shells.....ill post some pics soon.....keep us updated on your model 12.......

So SG, how does the shotgun look today?

I thought my great grandfathers M12 was pretty rough but yours makes it look great for a almost 80 year old gun. Ive never understood how people can let guns get that bad. Mine is a 16 gauge by the way.

So SG, how does the shotgun look today?

I've "stabilized" it.

:p

My thinking is this: Spend money now on things that I may not be able to buy soon. Ammo, magazines, cool rifles that scare liberal pansies are all "available" right now. When and if they become verboten, spend the money to repair the shotgun.

When the stormtroopers come for my guns, I'll shake my head and say, "Well, I guess you could take this old shotgun and my grandfather's pistol."

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h109/soilantgreen/BangBangBang/DSCN2278.jpg

Then head for the hills with my pile of ammo and the AK-74, Remington 870, Walther PPKs, M1911A1, LeMat, Winchester 94, etc...

:laughing:

Before I left for vacation, I dropped off the old M12 at A.W. Peterson Gunshop in Mt. Dora, FL. Besides claiming to be the oldest gun store in America (founded in Colorado, no less), there is a guy there that appears to know everything there is to know about the Winchester Model 12. After a few conversations with him and hearing his opinion on the old scattergun, I decided to leave it with them for the next evolution in its long and abused life.

They are "sending it upstairs" where their guy will use a buffing wheel and take all of the surface rust off with the bluing. Since he agrees that it is destined to be a "beater gun", it will be left in this natural metal finish and stored in a silicone gun sock that will keep it from degrading. It is his opinion that re-bluing it will not increase its value since it is a configuration that is neither rare nor super desirable.

So, by the time I get back from Colorado, I may have a shooter.

Picked it up today. The shop took the majority of the rust off of it along with some of the bluing. It looks great, or at least serviceable. There is still some pitting from where the rust flakes went deep, but overall, it looks like a different shotgun.

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h109/soilantgreen/BangBangBang/be8b2dd6.jpg

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h109/soilantgreen/BangBangBang/053c484a.jpg

The furniture looks great without a lot of rusty steel attached to it.

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h109/soilantgreen/BangBangBang/93a093ae.jpg

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h109/soilantgreen/BangBangBang/3e6d374c.jpg

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h109/soilantgreen/BangBangBang/512b56bf.jpg

Without its bluing, it will now live inside of a silicone rifle sock to keep it in this condition.
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h109/soilantgreen/BangBangBang/c7bd993e.jpg

Home blue that bitch already... Its cheap, super easy, and will make it pop against that furniture....

Home blue that bitch already... Its cheap, super easy, and will make it pop against that furniture....

x2

Glad to see it getting some love. :)

I will snap a few pics of my great grandfather's super old 12 ga that looks similar but for some reason I think his is an Ithaca. May be a few weeks though.

looks a lot like my m12...

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn7/fastg60/SDC11200.jpg

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn7/fastg60/SDC11201.jpg

looks a lot like my m12...

It does indeed. Freakishly so.

Home bluing may be an option now just to get away from having to work so hard at keeping it so oiled that it can never rust. I mean, who wants to pull out the shotty in a Zombie attack and have it so slippery that you can't aim it properly?

i mean, who wants to pull out the shotty in a zombie attack and have it so slippery that you can't aim it properly?

ed zachary!

120 grit aluminum oxide blast that puppy and give it a coat of KG Gunkote in Satin Black!

Then you will have a shooter that looks matte black, never have to worry about rust again!

:D

I just re-read this entire thread after posting a link to it in FullyGruntled's M12 thread and realized something. Since I brought my M12 home from the shop where it was cleaned up, I've put it away and never even had a need/desire to fire it.

That poor thing sits in the closet with the 870 and they probably are conspiring to kill some ducks or something.

I just re-read this entire thread after posting a link to it in FullyGruntled's M12 thread and realized something. Since I brought my M12 home from the shop where it was cleaned up, I've put it away and never even had a need/desire to fire it.

That poor thing sits in the closet with the 870 and they probably are conspiring to kill some ducks or something.

The 870 probably got lippy and said something smart when the M12 replied "I was killin ducks before you were forged son". Or some other vintage iron smack down. :laughing:

I'd get it sandblasted and then pic some kind of duracoat that will fit your fancy

That would be the ticket I think. As bad as the finish is on that thing it would look like dog shit with a reblue due to having to buff the hell out of the steel. Plus it would take a lot of metal removing to get the pits out.

A quick sandblast and duracoat would cost less and be a more valuable gun for resale not to mention a more durable finish in the feild.

Great old gun. If it were mine I wouldn't refinish it, just keep it clean and use a gun wax (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=234028#productTabReviews) instead of oil. I like old guns that look old and show some use. Refinishing them kind of takes away their past, what makes them special, and makes them look like any other gun.

If a little surface rust comes back, hit it with a fine ScotchBright pad and re-wax. I don't like using steel wool on anything that isn't going to completely disassembled and refinished. Any particle of steel wool left over is liable to cause new rust.

The 870 probably got lippy and said something smart when the M12 replied "I was killin ducks before you were forged son". Or some other vintage iron smack down. :laughing:


"Wingmaster, huh? Is that cause you just 'wing' them? And what's with all that plastic shit? Aren't there any more trees left to make stocks from?"


:homer:

There is still some pitting from where the rust flakes went deep, but overall, it looks like a different shotgun.

It looks great to me. I like the way the wood has that old farmhouse kitchen table look to it.

If you want to put it to good use, PM me a price.
I would not duracoat, or reblue. Just leave it like it is.
I haev a 1897 Winchester (same gun except with exposed hammer), that doesn't have a lick of finish left. It has turned to a nice patina, and will not flash rust as quickly as several other guns I own (NEF single shot). That mostly has to do with the Winchester has a better steel.

I've seen quite a few model 12 about in the same condition as yours.

Sorry, Matt. I really need to subscribe to my own threads since I didn't know you were interested until I went searching for this to see if there were any new replies.

We're buying a house and that's taking up all of my brain's computing power. Once things settle down, I'll give it some serious thought. I can definitely see it going to live in WV and killing ducks. That's if I can bring myself to get rid of it.