After crushing my cab this weekend the time to change is getting closer.

What I'd like to build is a 2 seat ftoy with a rear bench for kids, 37's, use my whole drivetrain and make it street legal also. I want to drive it to some comps and use it on the trails too.

Some questions I have:

Front Suspension: shocks attach by oem fashion - what about marlins gusset kit that single shear mounts the front shocks?
No front traction bar allowed - that sucks, why not?

Brakes:
I don't see anything about what MC is allowed - I got a chevy one that works awesome can I keep it?
No cutting brakes - come awn, they're fun. Can I have em and not use em? cutting brakes acceptable for a park brake? pull both and strap it?

Tire size: say any size or brand. 40" sticky treps acceptable? I thought there was a 37" limit

Frame notching: I want it low and lots of headroom so is there a limit on notcing the frame for seats?


Also where can I see some pics of:
rear mounted seat in 2 seat chassis
different style hoods - I don't really like the looks of the chassis in this area and wanna try to make it look different.
pics of fuel cell or fuell tank placement with a rear seat
some interior pics


Are most guys running dual cases?
I'm setup at 101" with duals
moving the engine back 8" is prefered but I might end up with a d-shaft issue in the rear

Answers in red


Some questions I have:

Front Suspension: shocks attach by oem fashion - what about marlins gusset kit that single shear mounts the front shocks?
Marlin's gusset kit is legal

No front traction bar allowed - that sucks, why not?
you can keep the factory one

Brakes:
I don't see anything about what MC is allowed - I got a chevy one that works awesome can I keep it?
Any Master Cylinder will be ok

No cutting brakes - come awn, they're fun. Can I have em and not use em? cutting brakes acceptable for a park brake? pull both and strap it?
You can install cutting brakes but you have to lock them out during competitions

Tire size: say any size or brand. 40" sticky treps acceptable? I thought there was a 37" limit
Any tire size is legal

Frame notching: I want it low and lots of headroom so is there a limit on notcing the frame for seats?
The best way to gain head clearance is to mount the chassis a little higher on the frame. If you are over 6ft, you might need to notch the frame a little.


Also where can I see some pics of:
rear mounted seat in 2 seat chassis
Look at the list of buildups on F-toy.org

different style hoods - I don't really like the looks of the chassis in this area and wanna try to make it look different.
pics of fuel cell or fuell tank placement with a rear seat
some interior pics
Again, look at the list of buildups on Formulatoy.org


Are most guys running dual cases?
I'm setup at 101" with duals
moving the engine back 8" is prefered but I might end up with a d-shaft issue in the rear
Most of us are in the 104" range and it works. You can use a L52HD trans from Marlin Crawler to gain 6 inches of driveline in the rear.

As for frame notching, there isnt a limit by number. We cut in, and left 2" if frame under the seats. Any less and we'd have to run smaller exhaust. Check our build thread for exhaust routing pics to see why.

No tire limit, but the chassis will force a certain amount of wheelbase. For 40's in the 101-104 range, Id say youll be mounting the chassis high to keep it out of the tires. Most everyone is running 37" stickies since the chassis lends well to that size. We run 40's in the snow and hit the chassis sooner, and the springs sooner.

Sorry to hear about your cab; glad to hear about your FToy plans!! Get a chassis ordered ASAP...there is sometimes a little lead time to get them fabricated.

Tire size: say any size or brand. 40" sticky treps acceptable? I thought there was a 37" limit

I think that's a Stock Mod limit

Frame notching: I want it low and lots of headroom so is there a limit on notcing the frame for seats?

If you don't go flat belly, you can run your exhaust down in the belly pan area ("jeep style") and put a big notch in it--brace the frame well to the chassis!!

Also where can I see some pics of:
rear mounted seat in 2 seat chassis
Most build threads!

different style hoods - I don't really like the looks of the chassis in this area and wanna try to make it look different.
You can't modify the perimeter bar to stay comp-legal, but you can add tube, or do whatever you want for a hood. I'm thinking of building a hood similar to Dave Cole's 2008 WE-Rock hood (FJ Cruiser style)

pics of fuel cell or fuell tank placement with a rear seat
Not a lot of good pics I've seen with 2-seaters built as 4-seaters. I'm doing the same, but don't have good pics--or a back seat--yet.


some interior pics
mtbrjon has a very nice interior in car #48. Brian Ellinger has a very Spartan, but clean (and lightweight) interior in #44. Matt Messer's #29 has a very elaborate interior.


Are most guys running dual cases?
From what I've seen, mostly yes.


I'm setup at 101" with duals
moving the engine back 8" is prefered but I might end up with a d-shaft issue in the rear
Yeah, I'm frustrated. :shaking: this is an issue I'm going to have to deal with. W-56 and duals. Looking for an L-series.... :(

If I do build one - I'll try to plan everything ahead of times so it's lightweight, spartan but still a very effective trail rig.

just spent the last 4-5hrs reading thru the build threads - not as much info as I thought there was out there.

thinking about mounting the chassis super low, notching the frame for seats and running the exhaust forward - but from the sounds of it the tire clearance kills that idea

Seats don't have to be mounted on the same plan, yada, yada like the pro mod crap

If you do decide to go f-toy you can pm almost any f-toy owner with questions that will help with your build and save you time and labor. there are also a few really NICE f-toys for sale right now

Yeah, and I don't think there's a single person who would be offended if you posted questions in their build thread--even if their rig is long-since completed.

thanks - that's what's drawing me to this class

and the fact that I have all the top toy components and a busted cab!


Things that I don't like on others that I'd like to find a happy compromise with is lower ride height, tire clearance, head room and engine/hood line. I'd like to mount the chassis real low on the frame but I don't really want the engine above the hood line. I'd like to know all the compromises that I'd be making with each setup.

will a factory pickup fuel tank fit between the frame rails in the far back with a rear seat? and not be too low?

I know camos f-toy ran the stock tank he had an x-brace but with out that he would of had room for a rear seat(not sure what ever happend to that car:D)

will a factory pickup fuel tank fit between the frame rails in the far back with a rear seat? and not be too low?

Yes....but I'm going to drop mine about 4" from what's shown here. The bottom of my tank will sit flush with the bottom of the frame, and I'll maybe put a small skid there.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=340651&stc=1&d=1197254970

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=340652&stc=1&d=1197254970

Spend the few bucks needed and buy a real cell. Stock tank leaves much to be desired and you can get the weight and slosh of fuel in a much better place with a store bought or custom cell.

Pook, do you mean like custom with a sump??

or without a sump... I run the walbro pickups in my cell. 3 of them one in each rear corner and one in the front middle. My cell is just generic speedway motors bladder in a tincan. being flat I was able to hange it with the top flush with the frame rails.

I'll probably end up with a custom shaped cell that wraps around the rear diff for next season, the one I have is big 12 or 16 gallons can't remember but it is way overkill for comps, but it is real nice for multiple day camping/wheeling trips.

I'd like to hear some more tank options that's a big decision since I eventually want to street drive it. I'll need something that I can put a fuel gauge on.

I'm not sure I trust the walbro pickups yet. I've had good luck so far with tall narrow tanks and sumps. I have had in tank stuff fall off on me and stop working - that sucks for something so minor to ruin a weekend. I think 10 gallons at a minimum would be good for my comp/trail/street use, wouldn't ever need more than 14 though. but I don't want it taking up all the space behind the rear seat - need that for a "trunk"

Pook, just how far below your framerails does your tank hang? No hangups dropping off of ledges, etc.?

How far above your rear diff? You've got 5" buggy leaves in the rear, right? I also recall you had to run a pretty flat trac bar mount to clear your tank.

I'm running stock 51" leafs in the back flipped backwards, tank sits 4 or 5" above the diff and i have never had an issue hitting.

Only reason I might change it is to get more uptravel for jumping the rig and hitting the whoops. Most of the tank would still hang down to the same, just thinking about more room right above the diff.

You keep saying you're going to mount the chassis super low. Here's a piece of advice from someone who's hit hard on the roof a time or two and that is the minimum W.E.Rock rule of 3" around the head with helmet on is just that MINIMUM. I won't build another rig of any kind that has less than 4" from my helmet. Seat belts stretch even when properly fastened and banging your head really hard even with the helmet on hurts real bad. Really think this superlow mounting thing thru before you do it as you won't want to have to change that later.

BTW-I can deliver a Ftoy chassis to the Nationals in Hannibal next weekend if you're gonna be there.

thanks for the advice on mounting the chassis.
Yup I'm a big head clearance fan - I think my buggy ended up with 8" to the bottom of the bars with a helmet on! I'll definitely make sure I have enough room, safety is 1 on the list

I won't be at the national but you could drop one off there and I'll pick it up at the All Stock National. I'll give you a call this week and see if we can work something out. Gotta make the final decision and check with the wife first. Thanks

You keep saying you're going to mount the chassis super low. Here's a piece of advice from someone who's hit hard on the roof a time or two and that is the minimum W.E.Rock rule of 3" around the head with helmet on is just that MINIMUM. I won't build another rig of any kind that has less than 4" from my helmet. Seat belts stretch even when properly fastened and banging your head really hard even with the helmet on hurts real bad. Really think this superlow mounting thing thru before you do it as you won't want to have to change that later.

Thats very surprising. Ive known guys running 1/2 that much, and never hit, under multiple barrel rolls, endos, etc. Though I know he and I both run our lap belts tight. Enough so, that at the end of a comp, my hips are definately sore.

As for low chassis, Im 6'2" our chassis is 1/2" above the frame, and the frame has ~2.5" notch for the seats in it. With a helmet Im 3.5-4".

Thats very surprising. Ive known guys running 1/2 that much, and never hit, under multiple barrel rolls, endos, etc. Though I know he and I both run our lap belts tight. Enough so, that at the end of a comp, my hips are definately sore.

As for low chassis, Im 6'2" our chassis is 1/2" above the frame, and the frame has ~2.5" notch for the seats in it. With a helmet Im 3.5-4".

Maybe it was the fact that I rolled off a small ledge and landed squarely on the roof ? and I wasn't wearing the sub belt at the time. I do keep my lap belt really tight. I am just gun shy on this right now. My point is to make sure there's enough room as 3" is less than you think. I've been wearing my sub belt every time and double checking the tension of the lap belt before going on course every time.

One other thing about building a Ftoy or something close in my case. This is by far the best forum on Pirate at least I think it is. When you go here you will get great help and answers and you don't get the jerks with way stupid questions that seem to be filling up the other forums as of late. :D

Maybe it was the fact that I rolled off a small ledge and landed squarely on the roof ? and I wasn't wearing the sub belt at the time. I do keep my lap belt really tight. I am just gun shy on this right now. My point is to make sure there's enough room as 3" is less than you think. I've been wearing my sub belt every time and double checking the tension of the lap belt before going on course every time.

Read BillaVista's harness tech article again.

I pre-ran the Vegas-to-Reno race with a buddy 3 weeks ago. His chassis was relatively low, and I'm relatively tall. I had my lap belt cinched really tight, but when I tightened my shoulder belts, it pulled up on my lap belt. This 1) placed the lap belt above my abdomen rather than my pelvis (see BillaVista's warning that this could squish your guts in a forward collision) and 2) also let a lot of slack into both lap and shoulders.

Not to mention 3) keeps your body from submarining under the lap belt in the event of a really violent forward collision.

It was really eye-opening to me how all 5 belts work in harmony to position your body in the suspension seat. Brian said his hips get sore...in my case, my collar bones were raw.

One other thing about building a Ftoy or something close in my case. This is by far the best forum on Pirate at least I think it is. When you go here you will get great help and answers and you don't get the jerks with way stupid questions that seem to be filling up the other forums as of late. :D

Just don't wander into the regular Toyota Truck and 4Runner section....you might find that the nice guys here are...... :laughing: :laughing:

I had my lap belt cinched really tight, but when I tightened my shoulder belts, it pulled up on my lap belt. This 1) placed the lap belt above my abdomen rather than my pelvis (see BillaVista's warning that this could squish your guts in a forward collision) and 2) also let a lot of slack into both lap and shoulders.


Yes, the sub belt keeps the lap from pulling up with the shoulders. 4 point harness is really a bit silly in my mind. Get the lap really tight, just to try loosening it with the shoulders straps.

Interesting enough most folks dont like the thought of the 5th strap. I just tell them when they get in, they have to wear the lap, but all 5 is best and the most comfortable. By the next time they get in, they will put on all 5, and usually rave about how nice the 5th's function is!

Always use the 5th belt. It helps big time.

Oh i'm definitely a dedicated 5th straper now!:D

to add to the belting discussion - remember to mount the belts so that they are easily adjusted. Too many rigs mount them where it's convenient without accounting for adjustability. If it's too hard to adjust them people won't and they'll be riding around improperly belted. I know my yota is too hard to adjust and I won't be making that mistake again