• Want
o Budget, varmint type, AR upper

• Use
o Desert plinker
o Squirrel / Coyote / Jackrabbit slayer
o Paper puncher
o Back of the truck rifle

• Requirements
o Optics / magnification (in the future)
o Not picky about ammo
o Low price
o Good all-around rifle.

• Desirable (but is it practical)?
o Bull or heavy barrel
o Full floating
o Chrome lined
o Iron sites and a scope

• Not desirable
o Shinny
o Expensive
o Picky
o specialized

• Questions
o Barrel length
 Real world difference between 18”, 20”, 22”?
o Bull / heavy barrel
 Accuracy benefits worth the weight / price for a weekend shooter?
o Chrome lined
 A must for crappy ammo?
 A must for a relaxed cleaning schedule?
o Twist ratio
 Real world difference?
 Optimal twist for all types of ammo?
o Chamber
 .223 -vs.- 5.56 –vs.- Wylde chamber
• Is the “wylde” just a company marketing ploy, a different name for the same thing that everybody else has or is it a valid and useful option?

o Stocks
 Is the skeleton type worthless while lying on your belly in the sand?
 Is a collapsible stock worthless while lying on your belly in the sand?
 Does anyone really buy the $300.00 stock? Is it a cool as I think it might be?



I want a complete upper, to mate to my Spikes Lower, that I can feed any ammo and have consistent, positive results.
I am not trying to reach out 1000 yards but I do want to be able to hit a squirrel if I can see the squirrel.

In your opinions, what would be the best all-around upper for me?
I have read so much lately that I think I actually know less about what I want than before I started researching. :confused:

Fire suit on

i think a .223 is a little much for a squirrel.

I would look at a 16" Hbar upper, or maybe a rifle length.

thats all i got...

• Want
o Budget, varmint type, AR upper

• Use
o Desert plinker
o Squirrel / Coyote / Jackrabbit slayer
o Paper puncher
o Back of the truck rifle

• Requirements
o Optics / magnification (in the future)
o Not picky about ammo
o Low price
o Good all-around rifle.

• Desirable (but is it practical)?
o Bull or heavy barrel
o Full floating
o Chrome lined
o Iron sites and a scope

• Not desirable
o Shinny
o Expensive
o Picky
o specialized

• Questions
o Barrel length
 Real world difference between 18”, 20”, 22”?
o Bull / heavy barrel
 Accuracy benefits worth the weight / price for a weekend shooter?
o Chrome lined
 A must for crappy ammo?
 A must for a relaxed cleaning schedule?
o Twist ratio
 Real world difference?
 Optimal twist for all types of ammo?
o Chamber
 .223 -vs.- 5.56 –vs.- Wylde chamber
• Is the “wylde” just a company marketing ploy, a different name for the same thing that everybody else has or is it a valid and useful option?

o Stocks
 Is the skeleton type worthless while lying on your belly in the sand?
 Is a collapsible stock worthless while lying on your belly in the sand?
 Does anyone really buy the $300.00 stock? Is it a cool as I think it might be?



I want a complete upper, to mate to my Spikes Lower, that I can feed any ammo and have consistent, positive results.
I am not trying to reach out 1000 yards but I do want to be able to hit a squirrel if I can see the squirrel.

In your opinions, what would be the best all-around upper for me?
I have read so much lately that I think I actually know less about what I want than before I started researching. :confused:

Fire suit on

• Questions
o Barrel length
 Real world difference between 18”, 20”, 22”?
Inside 300 yards and with lightweight rounds (55 gr) effectively none.

o Bull / heavy barrel
 Accuracy benefits worth the weight / price for a weekend shooter?

You might see a marginal increase in accuracy, especially when shooting a lot of rounds when it heats up. For most applications it's not worth the weight.
o Chrome lined
 A must for crappy ammo?
 A must for a relaxed cleaning schedule?

I think it's a must but Doc doesn't. If I want to be lazy and not clean after a range session I am more comfortable with a chrome lined bbl. Ammo makes no difference really, as there isn't any corrosive for .223/5.56.
o Twist ratio
 Real world difference?
 Optimal twist for all types of ammo?

If you're shooting varmint stuff and sticking with 55gr and smaller you'll be fine with 1:8 or 1:9 twist, hell it worked great with 1:12. If you're planning to shoot very heavy stuff you might want a 1:7 but for most users it's unnecessary.
o Chamber
 .223 -vs.- 5.56 –vs.- Wylde chamber
• Is the “wylde” just a company marketing ploy, a different name for the same thing that everybody else has or is it a valid and useful option?

Get a normal 5.56 chamber, unless you handload all your ammo and want to shoot to max ranges.

o Stocks
 Is the skeleton type worthless while lying on your belly in the sand?
 Is a collapsible stock worthless while lying on your belly in the sand?
 Does anyone really buy the $300.00 stock? Is it a cool as I think it might be?

They all work just fine lying on your belly in the sand, why wouldn't they? If you want lightweight get an ace skeleton stock. Yes some of us buy the $300 stocks.

I'd get a 16" flat top upper with normal chamber, 1:8 or 1:9 twist, chrome lined. Pete can get you a good price on one from J&T distributing or Model 1 IIRC. He can build you something custom but it won't be as cheap.

I've read an argument that any barrel length beyond what's required to allow a consistent burn only makes the barrel less stiff and, as a result, less precise.

I've read an argument that any barrel length beyond what's required to allow a consistent burn only makes the barrel less stiff and, as a result, less precise.

Define consistent burn with different loads? Bull barrell vs. thin walled barrel?

Sounds like a lame argument.

Different powders burn at different rates - so for a fast burning powder - shorter barrel is optimal. For a slower burning powder - longer is optimal. Can't just pick a barrel length and call it good.

Check out Rock River Arms. They make a Varmit upper with a wilson bull barrel that doesn't break the bank.

www.rockriverarms.com

Define consistent burn with different loads? Bull barrell vs. thin walled barrel?

Sounds like a lame argument.

Different powders burn at different rates - so for a fast burning powder - shorter barrel is optimal. For a slower burning powder - longer is optimal. Can't just pick a barrel length and call it good.

I didn't say anything about different loads. Any barrel type will become more flexible as it gets longer. Also, the longer the barrel, the longer the amount of time the shooter has to screw up the shot after pulling the trigger. I don't know how much barrel it takes to get a consistent burn with different .223 loads, I'm not that involved. The point is that there is a school of thought that teaches that longer = more accurate and a school that teaches longer doesn't always = more accurate

I did see those guys and wondered if the same thing could be had without the shiny barrel. That is also what made me ask about the wylde chamber and the barrel length.

I guess at this point I am trying to figure out the best compromise between barrel length and accuracy. I have no illusions of 1000 yard shots. 500 is probably still way too far.
I think 5.56, chrome lined is for me. Twist I don’t think will matter. I think the bottom line is once I get a scope on it, if I can see it with the naked eye; I want to be able to shoot it with the cheapest ammo I can find.
That much cash for toys doesn’t come easy at my house, having a zombie set up and a critter set up is not in my near future so I need to make this one count.



I am also aware of our friendly neighborhood venders and will be contacting them once I have a better idea of what I want and have cash in hand , rather than the PM asking what size tires can I fit on my AR? ....but Input, price and availability is welcomed. :D

500 yds on a squirrel sized target? Even with good optics and little wind, that's going to be hard with surplus 5.56 and a run of the mill rifle. 500 yds and a human sized target? I can hit that all day long with surplus 5.56 and an m4/a4 and iron sights.

Depends on what you're trying to do. For what you're asking, any lower end flat top 16" (I would go mid length) upper will work great.

Answer: Aloharover.

:/THREAD

Longer != more accurate

if you are using iron sights, a longer barrel allows you to get the sight further apart. A greater sight radius = greater accuracy.
Longer barrel will result in greater velocity. As much as 50fps per inch. So the difference between a 16" carbine and a 24" rifle can be as much as 400fps (theoretical) Thats huge and iot will come into play on long range (>400) shots.

Barrel length, diameter, material will all affect (effect?) the harmonics of the barrel. But this does not neccessarily mean that a 24 will shoot better then a 20. A good rifleman with good handloads will be able to get more out of a good 24" then something shorter.

Given your intended use I am thinking an 18", medium countor, mid length gas system. if you want to shoot below 50g bullets you really should look at a 1:8 or 1:9 twist.
If you are looking at heavier then 65g then you should be looking at a 1:8 or 1:7.

Accuracy seems important but unless you have spent a lot of time behind a rifle, the chrome lining shouldn't even be noticable. If you do have a lot of rifle experiance, then get a .223 chambered, stainless. Otherwise chromelined 5.56

In a mid length gas system you are looking at CMMG, RRA, WOA, or ARbarrels. With a rifle length gas system you can go with just about anything. You can even get a 20" send it off to GoZuki and get it turned down.

Thank you for the replies. :beer:
Something like this is what I would like to end up with. http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=230
What are the pro and cons of mid or rifle length gas systems?

When it comes to gas systems, longer is always better.