Well, even if I had wanted to find 5.43 gears saturday, the effort would have been for naught. I tore the front end down today and found:

http://www.tidesys.com/images/diff3.jpg

and

http://www.tidesys.com/images/diff1.jpg

and

http://www.tidesys.com/images/diff2.jpg

OUCH! Of course I am faced with what came first, chicken or the egg: Ring gear or the bearing cap/diff case.

So, trolling for good suggestions on a replacement 9" third member. I know Strange, Currie, etc,

The Detroit appears to be OK. I dam sure hope so.

FAWK!!

I need a sponsor!

dam did big dude beat up that chunk :D hey ill fix yours if you fix mine:rolleyes:

Originally posted by frankie fountain
dam did big dude beat up that chunk :D hey ill fix yours if you fix mine:rolleyes:

Must have been him pulling on the front when I was climbing battleship! I read what you broke, don't think I'll take that trade :D Cool show though. You must have done the parking lot deal not long after I left... Wasn't too many folks around at that point.

just a few peaple and just a few to many coors lights,but dam it was fun expensive but fun:D

I told you it felt crunchy:D:Dhehe

I'd bet the pinion let go first forcing the carrier up breaking the cap and eating up the ring gear.

They need to rename that obstacle to broken pinion or the gear set eater. That thing is hard on front ends:D

Originally posted by syko
I told you it felt crunchy:D:Dhehe

I'd bet the pinion let go first forcing the carrier up breaking the cap and eating up the ring gear.

They need to rename that obstacle to broken pinion or the gear set eater. That thing is hard on front ends

I don't know man, the pinion doesn't look all that bad. No big chunks out of it, just the teeth are all chewed up. And the 5.43 pinion on the 9" still seems pretty big. Now there are big chunks missing from the ring gear. This one is gonna hurt the wallet. :mad: September is now questionable.

now's the time to go hp in the front... :D

Originally posted by badassjeepguy
now's the time to go hp in the front... :D

I knew you were going to say that :flipoff2: !! They don't make 5.43 gears for the HP diff. :D

Originally posted by rkcrawl


I don't know man, the pinion doesn't look all that bad. No big chunks out of it, just the teeth are all chewed up. And the 5.43 pinion on the 9" still seems pretty big. Now there are big chunks missing from the ring gear. This one is gonna hurt the wallet. :mad: September is now questionable.


I think the teeth stripped off, got wedged, forced the carrier up, and broke the bearing cap. Definitely tough to take. You are good for catastrophic carnage, other people break driveshafts, you twist off stubs, twist ears, strip teeth, and snap 3rd members :D.

We can try to save some cash in a few ways. Pull two matching R&P third members. This shouldn't be too hard with about 6 pic n' pulls between us. Just swap your detroits in and run a higher than 5.43 ratio. Or pull a center section, order some more 5.43s, and set it up. Should be able to get a bare center section for extremely cheap, should be able to get a loaded one for cheap also at our PNPs. Just let me know what route you want to go.

Does anyone know the best vehicle to pull the third member from (strongest webbing etc.)? I'm clueless on 9"s but the sooner we start the cheaper it'll be. Buddy will cut you an at cost deal on the gears so we shouldn't have to price around too much for those.

Originally posted by bigdude


You are good for catastrophic carnage, other people break driveshafts, you twist off stubs, twist ears, strip teeth, and snap 3rd members :D.



No sh%t! I've broke more stuff in the past 2 weeks then in the last 5 years, and flopped it twice to boot. Guess I am "Gettin It" now! :D

Some good thoughts on the options to get it back together.

Your carnage brings up an interesting thought.

Is that now the weak point? I mean, you've got the shafts, CTM's, etc, etc. Do you think that you broke because 'something' had to give?

Anyway, kick ass. If you are gonna do it, do it right. :flipoff2:

Bigdude... I'm just starting to enhance my 9" tech, but I believe that you have 3 "kinds" of 3rd members, a "regular", a "WAR" and an "N" case. N case (Nodular I believe) being the strongest, but very hard to find in a junkyard

There is a a WAR case on e-bay..... WAR case (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1847300383) that looks pretty kick ass.

Just some thoughts.

Originally posted by bigdude

Buddy will cut you an at cost deal on the gears so we shouldn't
have to price around too much for those.

Does this offer go for the rest of the class? :flipoff2:

http://www.iei.net/~msmythe/images/tubless.jpg

the cage fell off first

http://www.iei.net/~msmythe/images/no-cage.jpg

Now what am I gonna do?

Damn Mike! :D

Sawzall get away from you? :flipoff2:

man, you got a bad case of termites :D

Mike - What are you up to now??? :D You are gonna finish what you started!

Originally posted by IndyCJ
Your carnage brings up an interesting thought.

Is that now the weak point? I mean, you've got the shafts, CTM's, etc, etc. Do you think that you broke because 'something' had to give?



Well, one lesson in all of this is I should have pulled the pig out after I broke both front shafts. I don't know if we hurt the diff then and putting it up on the angle and under load with low range and the winch just finished it off, or if its just the weak point. I can say the diff was around 4-5 years old and had been beat on in the past.

I sure hope it was only an anomally and that after rebuilding it, it holds up better then it has so far. I mean that was my second run on that axle. I am 2 for 2 now. :(

Well, I sold my cage in one piece to help fund some new tubing. I plan to tube the rear and lower the overall height, and trim 4-500 lbs overall, which is what started all this madness.

The body mounts that got caught on "lil po teet" are gonna be torched off too. For that matter everything non-essential is gonna be a candidate for removal.

It's amazing what you find when you can see the frame rails. Some repairs are needed from the stress of the comps.

How long till Christmas, ho ho ho? I see an Atlas in my future........

Originally posted by SpaceGhost
Well, I sold my cage in one piece to help fund some new tubing. I plan to tube the rear and lower the overall height, and trim 4-500 lbs overall, which is what started all this madness.



I assume you don't mean torching and tubing the rear of the frame? Be careful if you do, unless you are planning to move up to Unlimiteds.

Originally posted by SpaceGhost
Well, I sold my cage in one piece to help fund some new tubing. I plan to tube the rear and lower the overall height, and trim 4-500 lbs overall, which is what started all this madness.


I hope they don't decide that legends rigs need to be full-bodied in the future :eek:

rkcrawl: I'll start checking for 3rd members next time I get to Copher's (maybe Sunday if the cage gets finished Saturday).



All I can say to all those calling my support of Superwinch hubs BS...............:flipoff2: rkcrawl runs them, I run them, Buddy runs them, snobrder runs them on his legends rig, none of us have broken them while seemingly stronger pieces of the puzzle have been destroyed. I'll be honest that I never though a Superwinch hub would outlast a 9" ring gear but hey, the proof is in the metal chunked pudding :D Not saying they're indestructable, but they definitely hold up pretty well in competition and hard wheeling.

Originally posted by bigdude


All I can say to all those calling my support of Superwinch hubs BS...............:flipoff2: rkcrawl runs them, I run them, Buddy runs them, snobrder runs them on his legends rig, none of us have broken them while seemingly stronger pieces of the puzzle have been destroyed. I'll be honest that I never though a Superwinch hub would outlast a 9" ring gear but hey, the proof is in the metal chunked pudding :D Not saying they're indestructable, but they definitely hold up pretty well in competition and hard wheeling.

I'll second that, I had them on my YJ, never had ANY trouble with them. (The parking lot's not that tough though. :D )

Originally posted by bigdude


I hope they don't decide that legends rigs need to be full-bodied in the future :eek:

rkcrawl: I'll start checking for 3rd members next time I get to Copher's (maybe Sunday if the cage gets finished Saturday).



Full bodied: That would force Mr Bettio out too... and me for that matter if they counted tube front fenders as not "stock" enough....

3rd member: See the PM I sent you. Fuzz is in South Carolina. I should know if I can get hooked up through the oval track boys up there in the next couple nights. Looking forward to seeing your new cage :D I completely forgot about the racing contacts Fuzz has up in NC/SC. September should be a go.

Originally posted by rkcrawl


I assume you don't mean torching and tubing the rear of the frame? Be careful if you do, unless you are planning to move up to Unlimiteds.

Correct, I am keeping the frame as is, per the current rules. If they require a tub in the future I'll either weld mine back on, or move up (after cutting even more of the frame off).

Originally posted by rkcrawl

I completely forgot about the racing contacts Fuzz has up in NC/SC. September should be a go.

No shit! They should have centersections laying all over the place.

I just talked to Buddy and he said you need to get rid of that front 9" junk and the guy that originally bought that axle was just in it because the magazines said so :) BAJG sold his dual 9"s for $5700. If you could get $4K for yours we could cut down some chevy military takeouts and have $$$ to put in your bank account after we're done.


:flipoff2: :p

Originally posted by bigdude

If you could get $4K for yours we could cut down some chevy military takeouts and have $$$ to put in your bank account after we're done.


Have I told you, yet, that you are a bad influence? :D We'll talk after september erocc. Gotta get it back together for now.

Originally posted by bigdude



I think the teeth stripped off, got wedged, forced the carrier up, and broke the bearing cap. Definitely tough to take. You are good for catastrophic carnage, other people break driveshafts, you twist off stubs, twist ears, strip teeth, and snap 3rd members :D.

We can try to save some cash in a few ways. Pull two matching R&P third members. This shouldn't be too hard with about 6 pic n' pulls between us. Just swap your detroits in and run a higher than 5.43 ratio. Or pull a center section, order some more 5.43s, and set it up. Should be able to get a bare center section for extremely cheap, should be able to get a loaded one for cheap also at our PNPs. Just let me know what route you want to go.

Does anyone know the best vehicle to pull the third member from (strongest webbing etc.)? I'm clueless on 9"s but the sooner we start the cheaper it'll be. Buddy will cut you an at cost deal on the gears so we shouldn't have to price around too much for those.
Look at the Pinion end bearing carrier. Almost every one I have ever seen in a truck that was wheeled the casting around that bearing was cracked. It lets the Pinion get sideways some and snaps the teeth off the ring gear. THen the cunks wedged the and forced the carrrier to blow the cap off. That much destruction is common in drag racers. Pretty unusual to see it that bad in a rock crawler. Most hear it snap and stop unless you were on the go peddle real hard when it let go. Quality carnage there!
:D
I would check into a Nodular drop out. Yeah they are expensive but MUCH stronger. Strange and other sell them. Randy's probably has them also. About $300 for them last time I saw a price.

Originally posted by Grim Reaper

Most hear it snap and stop unless you were on the go peddle real hard when it let go.

It sounded like macine gun fire where I was standing. I looked at the front axle as it was happeneing and the whole center section was shaking. Jim (rkcrawl) looked at me and said "Did we brake a locking hub?":D

Originally posted by bigdude


It sounded like macine gun fire where I was standing. I looked at the front axle as it was happeneing and the whole center section was shaking. Jim (rkcrawl) looked at me and said "Did we brake a locking hub?":D

You just want to keep talking up those Superwinch hubs. :flipoff2: I am going to check the pinion end bearing carrier as suggested, as it sounds very plausible. Thing is I wasn't in the gas hard when it happened, we where winching over battleship and where trying to assist with 4wd and machine gun fire is a good description of the noise.

Originally posted by bigdude


It sounded like machine gun fire where I was standing. I looked at the front axle as it was happeneing and the whole center section was shaking. Jim (rkcrawl) looked at me and said "Did we brake a locking hub?":D

No, that sound was a machine gun....I missed :flipoff2:

J/K, that did sound nasty, no doubt...

Originally posted by Grim Reaper

Look at the Pinion end bearing carrier. Almost every one I have ever seen in a truck that was wheeled the casting around that bearing was cracked.

Checked it and its not cracked, at least not thats visible to the naked eye. Whats done is done...

Ok, let me throw this idea at you. When you are taking a diff apart, you can remove the caps, hold the ring gear and turn the pinion and it wil push the carrier out correct? What if what happened was since the winch would have been pulling the front tires into the climb, and you were giving it gas, the pinion just pushed the carrier out and broke the bearing cap. The bearing cap may have been cracked which gave way under the pressure from the pinion. Would this be a possible cause? I know I'm just grasping at straws, but it would make rkcrawl feel better to know it was not a common problem.

Mike C

Originally posted by snobrder
Ok, let me throw this idea at you. When you are taking a diff apart, you can remove the caps, hold the ring gear and turn the pinion and it wil push the carrier out correct? What if what happened was since the winch would have been pulling the front tires into the climb, and you were giving it gas, the pinion just pushed the carrier out and broke the bearing cap. The bearing cap may have been cracked which gave way under the pressure from the pinion. Would this be a possible cause? I know I'm just grasping at straws, but it would make rkcrawl feel better to know it was not a common problem.

Mike C

Who knows, its possible. I should have pulled the 3rd member last week when I had the axles out after breaking them... I have to believe this was a freak incident.

Originally posted by snobrder
Ok, let me throw this idea at you. When you are taking a diff apart, you can remove the caps, hold the ring gear and turn the pinion and it wil push the carrier out correct? What if what happened was since the winch would have been pulling the front tires into the climb, and you were giving it gas, the pinion just pushed the carrier out and broke the bearing cap. The bearing cap may have been cracked which gave way under the pressure from the pinion. Would this be a possible cause? I know I'm just grasping at straws, but it would make rkcrawl feel better to know it was not a common problem.

Mike C

Sorry to discount your theory but.....

The thing broke before he started to winch. He pulled his front tires up the incline, gave it a blip of throttle to see if it would climb (we had intended to winch anyway but wanted to check the climb first) and *POP POP POP POP POP* was all we heard as soon as his front got near the top. No bouncing, no weight on the front, nothing. I think he stripped it first due to a 5 year old R&P. I mean how many people have run the same gears through 3-5 years of wheeling? I haven't so I'm assuming that's a lot of abuse to take. Then he tried to drive it some more while winching because we weren't sure what let go and though it might be a locking hub, figuring the damage was done. Next came the second set of *POP POP POP POP POP* After that we put it in 2wd.

I'm stuck on the idea that the worn ring gear coughed up some teeth that got wedged up and under some throttle subsequently busted the bearing cap out.

Originally posted by rkcrawl
I have to believe this was a freak incident.

Yep. And I truly believe it was the result of a fatigued R&P that wasn't happy after 5 years or what it was put through the previous weekend (shock loading fron breaking the shafts)

Well, it was just a theory. Put a new set of gears and a carrier in it and bring it back.

Mike C

Originally posted by snobrder
Well, it was just a theory. Put a new set of gears and a carrier in it and bring it back.

Mike C

Working on it :D