It seems like almost every thread i start digging into in this section, someone ends up saying "that's not an expedition, THIS is an expedition, blah blah blah..."
I just noticed this in the "Let's see your expedition rigs" thread.

Why not keep all of that discussion in one thread, ie. HERE.
That way it will streamline the other threads and make the other discussions a bit more focused. ;)

So, an expedition is........... what?

Do you have to be able to travel a certain distance without re-fueling?
Do you have to have a 4x4 vehicle?
Do you have to be able to sleep inside the vehicle, or inside some attached appendage of said vehicle?
Can you be self-contained for 6 months etc??



Have at 'er!

Good idea. As I said before, expedition means different things to different people so the rig should simply be built to take whatever you intend to do with it with a certain amount of prep towards durability, distance to refuel/restock, camping capacity and self repair ability. It doesn't matter if you consider a trip across the Badlands, or Baja an expedition or if you feel that you need to go overseas and cross another continent, build the vehicle to suit because it's YOUR vehicle, YOUR trip and YOUR ass if you do it wrong. Everything in this topic is merely suggestions and examples because everyone's trip and experience, and therefore their rig, will be different.

Just my .02

i would say that an expedition is all about the mindset of the traveller.:idea:

4 or 5 years ago, my wife and i rented a uhaul in kentucky:dustin:(to pick up inheirited furniture for the in-laws from a recently passed loved one) and drove to san diego. we took as many route 66 sections that we possibly could.

that was an expedition. we took our time, stopped for pictures and went into the unknown.

if you have an adventurer/explorer mindset, travel to places YOU haven't been before, and try to stay off highways and away from big citeis:zzz:, to see the REAL countryside...its an expedition

it could be in a honda, it could be on a bike, it could be in a 4x4, it could be on your own two feet. in reality, there aren't many places in the U.S. that can't be travelled to/through, on a single tank of gas, without seeing a gas station. Mexico and canada are different with their large expanses of open spaces, and feel to me more like the classic "expedition" due to the lack of people and abundance of open space.

People get discouraged out of there explorer spirit because someone on the internet has already been there and taken pictures. I also see a lot of, "well you took a week to explore old mining camps in the desert", "been there done that....its not an expedition".

thats bullshit. It's your life, if you haven't seen it with your own two eyes, by all means, go and definitely call it an expedition.

my opinion.

here's the short list. if your trip has most of these its probably an expedition.

1. travel to a place you haven't been before

2. few to no people around to bother you

3. roads are simple, remote, unimproved or non-existant

4. carrying your own fuel, water, food, medicine, shelter is required

5. you have the mindset to "take it all in" and explore a new place

6. Human teamwork is required to logistically get the trip done due to
obstacles such as terrain, health hazards, distances, remoteness, etc.

I'm open to any type of expedition

Just please don't clutter the new forum with "hey look at my DD or competition rig, it's an expedition vehicle now"

ie. normal wheeling rigs

I agree with the first three posts, but being that this is a 4x4 site it should be focused on 4wd expedition "type" vehicles. Notice the quotation marks around type...Implying that there design may be based on traditional expo vehicles but may be modified to suit ones particular needs...

My Normal wheeling rig is being turned into a expo "type" vehicle...but I still want some wheelability so I will be making use of an off road trailer to carry the heavier stuff and act as a base camp...an if any here don't like my truck or my post they can F$%k off and die slow...

Web critics can shut the fawk up!!!

who gives a crap.

i need an all purpose vehicle. something i can take anywhere. something to handle all my gear and family. something i can sleep in. something reliable and easy to work on. something i can get parts for.

there is only one road around here that you can even go on that does not end and then you have to drive back on. its 22 miles. there is a little high speed and a lot of slow speed. my commander made it all the way through.

where in the united states are you going to find anything that is a real expedition. no where.

i'm building mine to take me anywhere. in my opinion that is a true expedition vehicle.

all the stupid elitists should just go find somewhere else to go.

Actually it would be better to term most of the rigs in question as "overlanding" style...
An expedition per defitiion is
an excursion, journey, or voyage made for some specific purpose, as of war or exploration.

Usually the term refers to mapping or scientific trips...
But it sounds cool so myself and lots others use it to mean trips longer than most folks take, in remote areas, self-sufficent, and such...
But looking what what the Aussies, and South Africans (who have been at it much longer) are up to..."overlanding" is a better term

Of course it really doens't matter in the end as long as we are all out there enjoying the backcountry :)

Here's a bat. Beat that horse!!!:flipoff2:

I've been on this site for quite a while, so I'll chime in. The reason there aren't that many "real" expedition type rigs here is because this site used to be "extreme rock crawling" period! Now Lance has branched out into different things and added forums to match what he and other people want. If you are a hardcore expedition type, you are on the wrong forum as this is kind of a little bit of everything for everyone type of site now. So if you are a "real" expedition type of person, offer help and insite but don't talk shit about everybodys Cherokees and FJ cruisers and such. This is a USA based website and MOST of the members are in the US. Like was said before, there is NO WHERE in the US to do a "real" expedition. If the rig is designed to go into the wilds and be fairly self-sufficient, I say it is fair game as long as there is an eye towards exploring and not just recreational wheeling. I would even accept and like to see more truck camper types (ala Turtle expedition type) My .02
Travis..

Unless I'm a trip that somebody else has already coined an expedition, I generally try to stay away from the term altogether. I've had a few experiences that have left a really bad taste in my mouth... hearing some people use it as an elitist term, like "I'm on an expedition not just a camping trip like you do" or some BS like that.

The way I see it, we're all just big kids with expensive toys going camping.

i would say that an
here's the short list. if your trip has most of these its probably an expedition.

1. travel to a place you haven't been before

2. few to no people around to bother you

3. roads are simple, remote, unimproved or non-existant

4. carrying your own fuel, water, food, medicine, shelter is required

5. you have the mindset to "take it all in" and explore a new place

6. Human teamwork is required to logistically get the trip done due to obstacles such as terrain, health hazards, distances, remoteness, etc.

I agree with that. An baja sort of expedition is pretty hard to come by up here in the Pacific Northwest. A few years ago, however, my wife and I traveled 400 miles north deep into Canada to go wheeling with some friends we only knew on the internet. That to me was an expedition because the Ramcharger had to drive there, perform, and drive back. No camping that trip, but hell, who cares? Every other time out is a camping trip. If I can go about 350 miles without refueling, and bring my hotel room with me (tent) and can get enough fuel to get home, it's expedition enough; especially since I'm likely driving to places I haven't been and want to get far enough away to play with my guns and have a huge camp fire.

Actually it would be better to term most of the rigs in question as "overlanding" style...
An expedition per defitiion is
an excursion, journey, or voyage made for some specific purpose, as of war or exploration.

Usually the term refers to mapping or scientific trips...
But it sounds cool so myself and lots others use it to mean trips longer than most folks take, in remote areas, self-sufficent, and such...
But looking what what the Aussies, and South Africans (who have been at it much longer) are up to..."overlanding" is a better term

Of course it really doens't matter in the end as long as we are all out there enjoying the backcountry :)


i agree with this( by the way, i'm "BIGdaddy" on expo portal). I like the idea that my rig is setup for "overlanding" better than expeditions. That's exactly the type of trip I like, and the mindset i have in preparing my vehicle. I try to keep the mods limited to things that don't take away from the durability or repairability by a "local" (read: podunk) garage, way out in bumfukk...

case in point, i drove my lifted on 38's blazer from here to montana. had the tranny go out in salt lake city and because it was the stock tranny, i had it replaced with a brand new one in less than a day. on the flip side, i had bearing issues due to the big-a$$ tires, and would have been much better running smaller tires. learning experience.

Hey Guys,

I think about an Expedition Vehicle, as a "Jack of All Trades" Master of a few.

A tough, trail, water, rock, mud capable rig, that is still road/driver friendly.

The fun comes in when, You get to decide which "Trade" it masters.

Kiwi

I grew up camping and in my adult life got into search and rescue. Also long trips out past hell in Alaska.

For me expedition rig means it has to get there and back under its own power - you can't afford a drivetrain failure, engine failure, electrical short, dead battery, wasted alternator, etc. It means on board air and an on board welder, axe and shovel, lockers, mud tires, extensive first aid kit, map and compass, tools, spares, extra fuel, water, rifle, and backpack to walk out in case of emergency. Because of where I choose to go I still wanted something manueverable - stuck with the TJ. I sleep in a tent.

There's always a backup, carry a spare if it's needed, and I have tools to pull it all off. I built my rig to overkill - the parts are far stronger than they should ever need to be. Breakage in the wrong location can kill you, or far worse, whoever you brought with you or who needs your help. Build your rig to survive anything - overbuild the hell out of it.

Be Prepared. Who knew the Scout motto would be a watchword throughout life?

I grew up camping and in my adult life got into search and rescue. Also long trips out past hell in Alaska.

For me expedition rig means it has to get there and back under its own power - you can't afford a drivetrain failure, engine failure, electrical short, dead battery, wasted alternator, etc. It means on board air and an on board welder, axe and shovel, lockers, mud tires, extensive first aid kit, map and compass, tools, spares, extra fuel, water, rifle, and backpack to walk out in case of emergency. Because of where I choose to go I still wanted something manueverable - stuck with the TJ. I sleep in a tent.

There's always a backup, carry a spare if it's needed, and I have tools to pull it all off. I built my rig to overkill - the parts are far stronger than they should ever need to be. Breakage in the wrong location can kill you, or far worse, whoever you brought with you or who needs your help. Build your rig to survive anything - overbuild the hell out of it.

Be Prepared. Who knew the Scout motto would be a watchword throughout life?

nice, well rounded post. lots of truth in there.

cheers.

I grew up camping and in my adult life got into search and rescue. Also long trips out past hell in Alaska.

For me expedition rig means it has to get there and back under its own power - you can't afford a drivetrain failure, engine failure, electrical short, dead battery, wasted alternator, etc. It means on board air and an on board welder, axe and shovel, lockers, mud tires, extensive first aid kit, map and compass, tools, spares, extra fuel, water, rifle, and backpack to walk out in case of emergency. Because of where I choose to go I still wanted something manueverable - stuck with the TJ. I sleep in a tent.

There's always a backup, carry a spare if it's needed, and I have tools to pull it all off. I built my rig to overkill - the parts are far stronger than they should ever need to be. Breakage in the wrong location can kill you, or far worse, whoever you brought with you or who needs your help. Build your rig to survive anything - overbuild the hell out of it.

Be Prepared. Who knew the Scout motto would be a watchword throughout life?

Agree for the most part. The 2 things that bugged me that I have seen on this board is custom/unique parts and expedition rigs with no doors.

For the custom parts, I can see if from both sides. Whether its stock or custom, you might have the tools and equipment to fix it in the boonies or a small town, but at some point parts will have to be replaced. You just have to plan for that downtime of getting parts shipped to wherever you can. Custom length driveshafts, axle shafts, etc will put you in a bind if you blow through your spares, although some folks will just see it as part of the journey. I just read the article about an African expedition where they broke their last axleshaft, and total downtime (with river the fastest route) was 45 days, and that was with stock parts.

To me an expedition vehicle is a vehicle that will get you home after whatever trip you have planned. Whether its a 3 day camping trip near your AO or across the pond, graded roads or no roads at all, a vehicle that is safe, comfortable, and reliable, relative to the owner.

Agree for the most part. The 2 things that bugged me that I have seen on this board is custom/unique parts and expedition rigs with no doors.

For the custom parts, I can see if from both sides. Whether its stock or custom, you might have the tools and equipment to fix it in the boonies or a small town, but at some point parts will have to be replaced. You just have to plan for that downtime of getting parts shipped to wherever you can. Custom length driveshafts, axle shafts, etc will put you in a bind if you blow through your spares, although some folks will just see it as part of the journey. I just read the article about an African expedition where they broke their last axleshaft, and total downtime (with river the fastest route) was 45 days, and that was with stock parts.

To me an expedition vehicle is a vehicle that will get you home after whatever trip you have planned. Whether its a 3 day camping trip near your AO or across the pond, graded roads or no roads at all, a vehicle that is safe, comfortable, and reliable, relative to the owner.


yeah...thats some down-time alright. read another story about a stock land rover being broken down in some one-horse town in Iran. This was in 2007, and the author was very clear that the people in this town were wonderful in every aspect. helpful, courtious, knowledgeable, good with a wrench,etc.

(makes me think of ehjsani(sp?) though i know he's in pakistan.)

they simply had problems "ordering the correct part, but getting the wrong one". this happened twice with a big parts house like British Pacific.

they were in this town for 2 months. kids started going to school to learn Iranian (don't know what they speak) and teach english...lol. :laughing:

thats the spirit of an expedition. My faith leads me to believe that God wanted them there, and they made the very best of it. Good stuff.

Holy moley. This kind of definition puts me into a whole new class of overlanding. Expeditions up and down East and Southern Africa. As long as a year at a time. Wow. Wait till I tell my friends. I'm going to be famous.

Holy moley. This kind of definition puts me into a whole new class of overlanding. Expeditions up and down East and Southern Africa. As long as a year at a time. Wow. Wait till I tell my friends. I'm going to be famous.

See, you're super helpful in keeping these sorts of posts in this thread and out of the others. I'm sure we all appreciate your valuable contributions to the board, seeing as this is your one and only post in 3.5 years.

:beer: to you, you completely useless horse's ass!

It was a polite way of expressing my distain for these evolving definitions of a trip to the grocery store or a safari to grannys into an expedition. You clowns pound your chest and define an expedition in such a manner to describe what so many do on a daily basis or even as a weekend camping trip, so that you can say- "I have done an expedition and I'm cool".

You're obviously something that desires to be classed cool because you can call people names and feel you are safe at home. Another wantabe working hard at the grindstone. Grow up.

Grow up.

Sorry I've obviously disappointed you, I'll try harder next time!
That is, as long as you keep contributing such helpful and plentiful posts over the next 3.5. ;)

It was a polite way of expressing my distain for these evolving definitions of a trip to the grocery store or a safari to grannys into an expedition. You clowns pound your chest and define an expedition in such a manner to describe what so many do on a daily basis or even as a weekend camping trip, so that you can say- "I have done an expedition and I'm cool".

That is some funny chit right there! :D

I know what you mean... It's not everybody, but there are a few.

I look at it this way. I'm going to build what I want, to do what I want, to go where I want to go because it's mine, I'm doing it and I pay for it. I could give a rats ass less about who builds what, or does what, or thinks what. If someone wants to call a trip out to the backyard to feed the dog an expedition, so be it. If they think you have to go to the moon to qualify as an expedition to them, so be it. I'll call my trips what ever the fuck I want and I'll be god-dammed if anyone is going to tell me if I'm right or wrong. Go your own way and if you aren't secure with your own definition enough that you can't keep from mouthing off about someone else's definition, then fuck off and kill yourself. If you can't contribute to the discussion constructively, then you are a worthless waste of bandwidth and oxygen.

I apologize to the members of the forum that understand where I am coming from. But, sometimes, I just can’t see letting this pass-

All this is doing is bastardizing the term expedition when a couple people rightly pointed out that ‘overlanding’ would have sufficed. What is worse, is a few weekend warriors have attempted to put themselves in a position of authority regarding redefining what is an Expedition and began to set parameters- just so they could feel good. Then, immediately started whining, and name-calling when someone checked them for their nonsense.

You can kit a vehicle for an expedition,, but really, just because you got the 4x4 out of the garage, doesn't make it an expedition.

It looks like someone needs to tell Lance to change the name from expedition forum to the overlanding forum so everyones panties can loosen up a bit.
Travis..

Nah, we just need to tighten our grip around a few throats until they stop squeaking.

Very mature. Threat by intimidation. Still doesn't make overlanding an expedition.

I look at it this way. I'm going to build what I want, to do what I want, to go where I want to go because it's mine, I'm doing it and I pay for it. I could give a rats ass less about who builds what, or does what, or thinks what. If someone wants to call a trip out to the backyard to feed the dog an expedition, so be it. If they think you have to go to the moon to qualify as an expedition to them, so be it. I'll call my trips what ever the fuck I want and I'll be god-dammed if anyone is going to tell me if I'm right or wrong. Go your own way and if you aren't secure with your own definition enough that you can't keep from mouthing off about someone else's definition, then fuck off and kill yourself. If you can't contribute to the discussion constructively, then you are a worthless waste of bandwidth and oxygen.

a little harsh :laughing:...but it reflects exactly my feelings :D
i`m very happy to see this sub-board (who cares if it is called expedition, adventure, overlanding or whatever :shaking:)
i used to do a lot of wheeling and crawling when i just freshly discovered that i was born in the wrong country. my brother and i wheeled across the west from Rubicon to Sledgehammer to Moab and also trails like the Mount Blanca in Colorado. we traveled sometimes for 5 weeks at a time living out of our two well prepped CJ 5`s ...(talk about restricting yourself to the bare minimum :eek:... that was kind of a "expedition" in itself :p)
then i drifted off into Dune buggies (i love speed:evil:)
but now i want to go back to traveling around and see more of this wonderful country that i love so much.
i dont feel like going back to the hardcore trails bouncing on leaf springs and sleeping on the rocks (i guess i`m getting old:shaking:) so i`m actually in the planing stage to build myself a "adventure" style vehicle that is fun to drive, has killer suspension (did i mention that i love speed :laughing:) easy mountable roof tent and all the other stuff that you need to spend some time away out in the sticks.
long story short; im glad we have a board to talk about this kinda vehicle without bothering the hardcore guys
i`m looking forward to share and learn lots of stuff here :)

btw it is great to see peeps from other country`s posting ...i like them OZ rigs ...some nice and tricky details there :smokin:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/expedition

Everyones opinion of what an expedition vehicle is, is different.
Because an "Expedition" is not the same to everyone.
To some, just getting out for a weekend and camping over night is an expedition.
To some, its at least a week long trip, many many miles away from civilization.

To me, an Expedition vehicle is one that is equip for traveling over rough terrain, exploring places that may not even have roads.
And camping out at different locations along the way.
It also has to be well equip to handle those situations.
Not just the offroad aspect of it, but also be able to handle emergency situations, breakdowns, and also have some creature comforts.

This is where the differences come in.
Some people dont need or want as much as others when it comes to the outdoors and camping.
Some are happy with a camp fire and a tent, while others want a more elaborate tent, with heated water, 120V power, etc.

I like to think that at least in my eyes, I am building an expedition vehicle.
One that I an simply stock with some food and water, and be on my way.
I know its insanely uneconomical, but I like the fact that its my daily driver.
I like the fact that I carry 80% of the stuff with me at all times.
Its been a pleasure to be the "goto guy" on a few of the trail rides.
I carry a good bit of stuff, and have some conveniences that some have needed, such as 120V power, compressed air, etc.

And lets face it, some of the mods we do are just for fun.
I dont really need hot water when I am out on the trail or camping,
but I think some day I will install a home made water heater system.

~John

.... And lets face it, some of the mods we do are just for fun....

~John

i agree 100%:D...

i just found this pic (lttlbddy`s ride ;) );
http://lttlbddy.com/albums/MyAmigo/MiscPics/dscn5201.jpg

does this qualify as a "Expedition" vehicle ???? maybe?!?..... maybe not?!? .....

but who gives a flying fuck; just look at the faces:D:D ...IMHO its all about having fun :p

Hey "Expedition" Guy's,

I really wish You Guy's would figure out what Your going to do with this sub forum.

I just started a Kiwi's "Expedition", overland, trail, Jack of all trades, water crossin, wanna be rock crawler rig, thats Fuel efficient, with a 500 mi range that I can sleep in. I wanted to post on this forum.

But I'm not sure this is the place for it...... Is it?

Kiwi:D

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=714752

Post it up Kiwi, even if it doesn't meet everyone's definition of "expedition", it is still good info for others who share your definition.

I vote that we DO NOT define the word "expedition" and leave it open to the individuals interpretation. Even the hard asses who think that expedition has to mean you are on some Indiana Jones trek have to admit that the vehicle that goes across Africa will be vastly different from one that treks across Siberia. So even with a hard definition, there is no hard design for the vehicles. Post what you want and to hell with definitions. We spend too much time on this stupid BS and it's getting to the point that people are afraid of posting their projects for fear of someone bitching them out about their rig. I personally wouldn't have thought a FJ Cruiser would make a very good expedition rig but there is a thread here that has proven my thoughts very wrong. So I say to hell with definitions and to hell with opinions. Post what you want and ignore the people who can't take your rig as a manifestation of your opinions and ideas and post constructively.

And yes, I am mature and threats by intimidation work quite well. Force is the only thing that matters, you are either behind it, or getting pushed by it. My anger issues make Brock Sampson look like a kindergarten bitch. :flipoff2:

Hey Elwenil,

I think We just took over the "Expedition" forum, thats OK, I think We can Take em.:D

Just trying to prove a point,... and I second the "Motion".

Anyone Else?

Kiwi

edit; Wisconsin Kiwi and the Temple of Doom.......I like it:D

You can have it. 'Pussies on Expedition- a whole new reality'. No wonder the rest of the world hates yanks.

I take it that since your location was "Africa" and that you say "yanks" that you are South African/British? I don't think you have much room to talk there buddy. How about the next time you get yourselves in a war, or some sort of humanity crisis that you bail your own asses out and stop depending on the US so much and then stabbing us in the back when you open your mouth.

You can have it. 'Pussies on Expedition- a whole new reality'. No wonder the rest of the world hates yanks.

what a retarded douchebag comment :shaking::shaking: ...

You can have it. 'Pussies on Expedition- a whole new reality'. No wonder the rest of the world hates yanks.


I never "expedition" with out pussie, Other wise it would be an Expedition for........

Does Your MoM know Your on the computer so late?

Kiwi:flipoff2:

I
All this is doing is bastardizing the term expedition when a couple people rightly pointed out that ‘overlanding’ would have sufficed. What is worse, is a few weekend warriors have attempted to put themselves in a position of authority regarding redefining what is an Expedition and began to set parameters- just so they could feel good. Then, immediately started whining, and name-calling when someone checked them for their nonsense.




Main Entry: ex·pe·di·tion
Pronunciation: \ˌek-spə-ˈdi-shən\
Function: noun
Date: 15th century
1 a: a journey or excursion undertaken for a specific purpose
b: the group of persons making such a journey
2: efficient promptness : speed
3: a sending or setting forth

The first entry of the definition would fit any "weekend warrior" expedition. Sounds to me like you are the one who has attempted to put yourself in a position of authority. :flipoff2: :shaking: :flipoff2:

I'm pretty happy with the direction this thread has gone. Thanks PBB!
:laughing:

a journey or excursion undertaken for a specific purpose

My expedition this morning was to go to subway across the street and get a tuna sammich. Write-up to follow.

Uh oh... do I sense it's time for a "Hardcore expedition" group so that the 3 or 4 people on here that travel for years at a time across Africa have a place to see whose is bigger? Or maybe the name could be changed to Expeditions for badasses and overlanding for everyone in America.

I think the point remains, everyone that is reading this forum is doing so because they want to be able to make it from one point to another over a period of time, self sustained in a vehicle they enjoy driving to explore and travel.

Who really cares if you're making a trip across cananda, through colorado or back and forth across africa.

If you have nothing of worth to add... why complain? Go to another forum that fits your definition of "expedition".

--rant off--
:flipoff2::flipoff2:

Who really cares if you're making a trip across cananda, through colorado or back and forth across africa.

If you have nothing of worth to add... why complain? Go to another forum that fits your definition of "expedition".


That's pretty much my feeling. ;)

I'm open to any type of expedition

Just please don't clutter the new forum with "hey look at my DD or competition rig, it's an expedition vehicle now"

ie. normal wheeling rigs

But, technically, isn't the adventure that defines the vehicle, and not the other way around?

If so, I think you need to take a stroll through ADV Rider and let them know they're doing it all wrong. After all, they're only doing it on ONE wheel drive!

Grow up.

Take some of your own advice mate.

You've got 5 posts in total on this board,all of them whining about something you dont agree with.

Maybe I missed them,but I didnt see any of your expedition rig pics,nor any write ups on what you define as expeditions.

Maybe I missed them,but I didnt see any of your expedition rig pics,nor any write ups on what you define as expeditions.

They are pretty easy to track down.
All 5 of his posts are in this very thread... :shaking: