I know just used the Rubicon as an example but this really applies to any new vehicle.

They say the cost is going to be $25,000.

Assuming that the dealerships don't rape you on markup and that you actually pay at or near the list price, it's STILL going to cost you about $30,000 to actually get it out the door.

And then, what do you have? A nice jeep with good mechanicals and 31's.

So what do you do? Lift it and put on bigger tire for how much more? Probably voiding at least the powertrain warranty?

I put forth the proposition that for HALF that money I can take a used wrangler and build it into a rig that will piss all over the Rubicon.

PLUS of course I wouldn't be worrying about my brand new sheet metal.

So what is the Rubicon?
Too much jeep for Joe Average Mall Crawler and not enough for Johnny Hardcore?

Originally posted by nakona
I put forth the proposition that for HALF that money I can take a used wrangler and build it into a rig that will piss all over the Rubicon.

You can get a '97 TJ 4.0L Auto w/ over 100K miles for about $5-7k.

yeah....and your point is?

anyway I agree...It is a novel concept for Dam-Chrys to "create" this awesome go anywhere rig...

You are right about building one for half the price....I think that anybody on this board will flame you the fuck up about that one.

SHIT for $3000.00 or less you could buy a rig that would perform better than the Rubicon. Like a Scout II:flipoff2:

Of course this is old news:D

I'm for it from the point of view that the factory has more money and engineers to work on stuff like this. Bringing us an air locker that defaults to a posi when not activated. and a factory 4:1 t-case. I also hate it cause it brings more people to the trails where I go to get away from peole! The more ideas and research the better.

Originally posted by Harvester of Sorrow
SHIT for $3000.00 or less you could buy a rig that would perform better than the Rubicon.

You're right. "snobrder" bought & built a YJ w/ a 4.0, manual, 33s, & D44s for under $3K. He runs it in the legends class at events and beats it like it's indestructable (which it pretty much is w/ 33s)

Why is this stupid topic asked every two weeks or so?

Do a search theres millions of posts on this very topic.

Aaaah, fawk the J&*p and get a cruiser :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

Sorry man, but yes you are right. Hey, at least it's a step in the right direction though. We haven't seen ANY manuf head in the wheeling direction in a LONG time.

:flipoff2:

I agree but want to point out one thing:

Think "GPZ550".

Before the Kawasaki GPZ550, no bike manufacturer was making extreme sport bikes. Now there's almost nothing but. Before the GPZ550, no manufacturer thought such a narrow market focused item would sell. Now they realize it's the key to success in all segments.

To me, the Wrangler Rubicon represents not a hard core machine, not something I want to trade my current rig for, not a mall crawler, not an extreme wheeler, not any of those things.

What it represents to me is the start of a trend (hopefully).

I like it not for what it is, but what it might lead to.

What is Mr. Yuppie-didn't-quite-get-in-on-the-"DotCom"-explosion going to spend his money on when he wants to pretend he is a big time wheeler but can't afford a Hummer? Well, maybe an H2, but also likely a Rubicon. Now anyone who actually wheels knows that you can build something better for less, but personally I hope those things sell like pancakes..... think of what it might lead to.

Originally posted by ChadLloyd
I agree but want to point out one thing:
Think "GPZ550".
Before the Kawasaki GPZ550, no bike manufacturer was making extreme sport bikes. Now there's almost nothing but. Before the GPZ550, no manufacturer thought such a narrow market focused item would sell. Now they realize it's the key to success in all segments.

Rice Rockets :rolleyes: :flipoff2:

The rubicon is for the lazy Yuppie. If you want something pre built cant you give Avalanche a jeep and like $25000 and they'll make it like Bruiser? Thought I heard something like that. I would prefer to do the work myself but I know alot of people would rather not.

The majority of 4 wheel rigs sold never see the trail. This one will probably be no different. So in 5 or 6 years when you can pick them up cheap used, they'll probably be a good "starter" rig.

I agree with the step in the right direction. it is alot beter than what the other two are putting out. ford with their going to ifs/irs on every thing and chevy who forgot what a solid axle much less a trail vehicle looks like. i say great for jeep to stick with their roots. The question is not the diference in cost between you 35 year old heavy as hell IH and the rubicon. The question is between buying a new tj sport and putting the stuff on your self and buying the rubicon. Lets compare like to like. That being said i would still go to the by a POS for a title and put mostly salvage parts in it because i'm a cheap broke mofo.:flipoff2:

Big Dude, the newest Jeep that you can buy out here for 5-7K is about an 89-91 YJ. Hook me up on those cheap TJ's. Those things go for more like 12-18k unless they are wrecked and then 5-9k.

Ryan

Originally posted by BrianR
The majority of 4 wheel rigs sold never see the trail. This one will probably be no different. So in 5 or 6 years when you can pick them up cheap used, they'll probably be a good "starter" rig.

EXACTLY! And for those who do buy them NEW planning to wheel them, well these are the same folks who would buy a TJ with a 30/35 combo for $20,000 and wheel it - but break more stuff. That's the way you have to look at it, not "Is it worth more than a modded '97?", but rather "Is it worth more than a brand new TJ with a 30/35 combo, no lockers, and a 2.6:1 low?"

TEX

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=736825

Originally posted by Welby
.

Bawahahahahaha

Too bad all i saw when you tried that earlier was a big red "X" You deleted it before I could quote you on that :flipoff2:

Originally posted by RealJeep Man
Big Dude, the newest Jeep that you can buy out here for 5-7K is about an 89-91 YJ. Hook me up on those cheap TJ's. Those things go for more like 12-18k unless they are wrecked and then 5-9k.

Ryan

Go to Kelly Blue Book and value your vehicle for private sale as a '97 4.0 auto w/ 120K in good condition and see what it gives you. I have seen early TJs in bad condition (dents, bald tires, cheap wheels, bad brakes, cut tops, etc) with 4.0 & high miles for 5-7K down here. But all that is gone when you swap axles so who cares. they are out there. '97 TJs are almost 6 years old now, that's really old when you figure in 100K+. It discounts them a lot. I also have a buddy who buys jeeps at auction for his sales business so I've seen them go cheaper then that.:eek:

Originally posted by RealJeep Man
Big Dude, the newest Jeep that you can buy out here for 5-7K is about an 89-91 YJ.
Ryan

snobrder on this board got his '91-'92 4.0 YJ w/ 120K+ for $2,000. Good engine, tranny, and t-case. You're smoking crack if you'd pay 5-7K for a 89-91 YJ.

Welcome to once a week for the last year :flipoff2:

Originally posted by Rerard
Welcome to once a week for the last year :flipoff2:

Some of us are just hear to hy-jack this thread and discuss used vehicle pricing. Hopefully the clutter will help it to die :flipoff2:

I realize that some of you aren't happy unless you're bitching about something.

You won't take it personally if I choose to not give a fuck, will you?

Bigdude - LOL

Nakona - LOL


and of course.. :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

The topic of this thread is "Wrangler Rubicon - Is it really worth it?" Well, that depends on who you ask. Ask the guy that spends all his free time building a killer trail rig and he will say "No", ask the kid whos mom will be buying him the new TJ and he will say "Yes". Ask the guy who has been riding for 10 years with a beat up CJ-5, and he will say "No". Ask the guy that makes $75,000 a year and has never been off-road, and he will say "Yes". This question is relative. Ask the question like this "Which would you rather have? a $80,000 Hummer, or a $30,000 Rubicon" and see what kind of answers you get.

There is no way I COULD buy a Rubicon to compete in, but I would love to have one to use for day trips and the daily work commute. As a matter of fact, I may trade in the '98 TJ for one. But I will keep using the '91 YJ for competitions and the '78 CJ-7 and '75 CJ-5 for Tellico. Just like golf, you wouldn't use the putter off the tee box.

Mike C

The Rubicon is a new truck, so if you put it in the proper perspective, it is definitely worth it. If I was in the market for a new TJ, I would pay the difference to get just the stronger axles in a hearbeat. Same logic that made me buy a 9200 GVW pickup truck with a diesel and a 15,000 lb towing capacity instead of a half ton. The stuff is just gonna last longer, and have way better resale value. If you are just gonna tear it apart for a trail rig, it is obviously not worth it. I don't know why anyone wouldn't buy the Rubicon if they are gonna pony up for a new Jeep anyway.

Welby :flipoff2:

Only kidding man, laughed me hiney off.

:flipoff2:

Originally posted by inphobic
I also hate it cause it brings more people to the trails where I go to get away from peole! The more ideas and research the better.

Dude thats pretty selfish. Im sorry to say it, but more people may ruin your perfect weekend. But depending on the type of them they may also help keep your "personal" trail open.

If just 1/10 of these "yuppies" take these things offroading, and see what the sport is all about. Than thats a hell of alot of good allies for us.

Atleast if they can affoard to wheel this brand new truck, they can afford to help pay for lawyers to fight for it. :D

Originally posted by inphobic:
I also hate it cause it brings more people to the trails where I go to get away from peole! The more ideas and research the better.

You know, we have a real similar argument in the ski/snowboard community, only there it's more ski vs board than old vs new.

Funny how we all want to get into a "group" and then lock the door behind us.

Originally posted by nakona


You know, we have a real similar argument in the ski/snowboard community, only there it's more ski vs board than old vs new.

Funny how we all want to get into a "group" and then lock the door behind us.

Yah, skiing sucks!! :D Glad you brought that up :D

Seriously though, for certain people the Rubicon will work great. It probably isn't going to fit my budget or needs, but I still think it's a good idea. If for nothing else, so I can get the trickle down of good stuff like 4:1 transfercase, and selectable lockers.

If they take that same jeep, lift it a little more so they can stick 33x12.5 or 35x12.5 tires under it'd be kickass.


Yeah, I know....
too many lawyers...
they wont do it.

But what a waste of all that hardware to just have 31's, you know?


Oh, almost forgot...

Boarders suck! :flipoff2:

Originally posted by tuckster


Yah, skiing sucks!! :D

My favorite bumper sticker: "If it were easy, it would be called snowboarding!" Thank you, K2, for saying the truth. :vader::flipoff2:

Paul (this thread sucks)

I know if I was looking to buy a new jeep, Id for sure start with a rubicon, and Id pretty much have the drivetrain taken care of from the factory, with the exception of maybe sticking a D60 out back. But.. Since Im poor, looks like my YJ will have to do.
Scott

I skied for a couple years... the tried snowboarding, I hated it but I didnt want to quit till I was good, so I snowboarded a couple years so I was actually better at it then skiing but still hated it. 90% of the people that snowbaord just do it cause its cool and are dicks becaues they just think their the coolest little jr college students in mommy's 02 explorer.


I know I know, im stereotypig, I dont care :p

Originally posted by nasvik


My favorite bumper sticker: "If it were easy, it would be called snowboarding!" Thank you, K2, for saying the truth. :vader::flipoff2:

Paul (this thread sucks)

:laughing: That's too funny.

I've have skied since I was 5 yrs old, and spent 7 yrs as a ski instructor. I've tried snow boarding a couple times and picked it up fairly quickly, but it sucks. You have to fawk with your bindings before and after every trip up the lift. I don't even like fawking with my pole straps. You're so imobile on the damn things. Can't move on the flats, can stand still on the steeps. Even if you're good, you spend most of your time sitting on your ass either fawking with your bindings or waiting for your buddys. They say they're fun in the powder, but I've never tried it. Who want's to waste a good powder day on a fawkin snowboard.

And they plow all the powder off the mountain.



"Uh, no jackass...
You're not boarding, you're sideslipping"

:rainbow: Real Jeeps are built..............

Originally posted by nakona
And they plow all the powder off the mountain.



"Uh, no jackass...
You're not boarding, you're sideslipping"

Funny, boarders say the same thing about skiers... all they do is knock the power off the hill.

I always just say, do what you like, if you don't like it, don't do it...

and h@ll yeah my id is SNOBRDER:flipoff2: