At the request of MustardDog I will repost this here.

I know thare are at least 20 to 30 people on this board from the San Diego area. Where are you? Why haven't you chimed in to support the reopening of Suprise Canyon?

You can spend your off time here on the Boards but you can't break away from here for two hours? Or are you to embarassed to fight for what little we are going to have left?

Todd and SanDiegoCJ have stood up! Where's the rest?

Edit: Stinkbug has just stood up to be counted

The rest of you make me sick!! YellowSub, Crowdog, and landuseorc bust thier ass to keep us informed.

The response to this subject is PATHETIC!!


That's fine, ya don't show then don't come to my campsite looking for help!! You won't get it!!!!!!

Hey dont forget about me, i've already thrown my name in the hat as one person who will DEFINITELY be there. All you other bitches get off your ass and get to that meeting. Hell i'll even pick you up as long as your not more than 30 min out of my way, which is like anywhere in san diego county. LETS GO!!!

Dallas

EDIT: just saw your edit ;) thanks.

It's amazing how little people are really willing to do. :(

When you guys do go to the meeting wear red!

We have been having some land use fights over here and as a sign of solidarity we all don red shirts. It really makes a statement.

We did it at the BLM scoping meeting for the Imperial sand dunes. Tons of area Jeepers (azvjc and others) came out to support the American Sand Association in their fight to keeep them open. (I am sure we can count on their assistance in the future)

It sure gets everyones attention when they look out over a sea of red.

Participate!!! You owe it to your sport!

Where can I get ahold of the American Sand Association?

Thier help would be greatly appreciated!!!

Come awn guys! I would love to go these meetings but it is kind of far.I hope you guys have a better response now!

btt

American Sand Association (http://www.glamisonline.org/)

Originally posted by BigHG
American Sand Association (http://www.glamisonline.org/)

You Rock!! I owe you some beers!!!

I will be at the Pasadena meeting loaded for bear. Done the research. Hope that punk Danny Patterson from the CBD is there.

I will be at the meeting in SanDiego. Also gonna try to make the pasadena meeting. I will be wearing my red club shirt & jacket. I am not much of a speaker, but I will be there. WHERE THE FAWK is everyone else? Be there!!! Brad.

I'm all over it:D too the people that arnt:flipoff:

tell me when the shit is gonna fly and i'll be there :D

BLM Schedules Public Meetings to Prepare Draft EIS

The Bureau of Land Management (BLM) has scheduled five public scoping
meetings to gather public comments and recommendations on the preparation of
draft environmental impact statement (EIS) and proposed amendment to the
1980 California Desert Conservation Area Plan that will establish or revise
off-highway vehicle route designation for Surprise Canyon, located in the
Panamint Mountains in Inyo County, CA.

Each meeting will include two sessions that will be held from 3:00 p.m. to
5:00 p.m. and 7:00 p.m. to 9:00 p.m. at the following dates and locations:

<b>
July 29
Desert Empire Fairgrounds
Mesquite Hall
530 South Richmond Road
Ridgecrest, CA. 93555

July 30
Doubletree Hotel
3100 Camino Del Rio Court
Bakersfield, CA. 93308

July 31
Boulder Creek RV Resort Clubhouse
2550 South Highway 395
Lone Pine, CA. 93545

August 5
Sheraton Pasadena Hotel
303 East Cordova Street
Pasadena, CA 91101

August 6
Hilton San Diego Mission Valley
901 Camino Del Rio South
San Diego, CA. 92108

</b>
The Draft EIS will evaluate a full range of alternatives regarding access
into the Surprise Canyon Area of Critical Environmental Concern (ACEC). Upon
completion of the EIS and decision processes, BLM will issue a Record of
Decision that will amend the 1980 California Desert Conservation Area Plan.

Written comments will be accepted through Friday, August 30, 2002. Comments
should be mailed Hector Villalobos, Field Manager, Bureau of Land
Management, 300 South Richmond Road, Ridgecrest, CA 93555.

For more information contact the BLM Ridgecresst Field Office at (760)
384-5400.

-BLM-

California Desert District Office - 6221 Box Springs Blvd, Riverside,
California - (909) 697-5220

Don't show and you might as well sell your rigs now!!

I don't care if you are afraid to get in front of people and talk, just show up so we can out number the greens!!

There is a Land Use Forum on this BBS!!

It isn't that hard to find and look at every once in awhile!!

Has any So Calif people really looked at this? If you have and ain't pissed then read the following!!

I will be at the mercy of Private Land Owners who can charge whatever they want for me to Offroad. Is this what all of you So Calif people want?

When will you step up? When the Enviros get your "Backyard Trails" shut down? Is that when you are going to stand up and fight?

Well guess what, it's been going on for years and until YOU STEP UP, start buying property, it's the only place you will be able to Offroad.

Originally posted by primergray


You Rock!! I owe you some beers!!!

:beer: is great!! But just get Surprise reopened and we will call it even.:flipoff2:

Anyone from LA going to the San Diego meeting?

I would like to go, but another fawking drunk driver totaled our vehicle.....:mad: :mad: :mad:


But if someone is going that I could hitch a ride with I would appreciate it. And yeah, I will pay for some gas too....

I'm hoping to hit Pasadena #2.;) Diego is a little far to get there in time after work. Yellowsub is going to Bakersfield and might be riding shotgun to Pasadena.

Originally posted by blazin
Come awn guys! I would love to go these meetings but it is kind of far.I hope you guys have a better response now!

Hey, Drive over the weekend Go to the monday meeting drive home tuesday. I will let you have the time off work;)

Seriously, If you did show up I bet it would make a difference that you drove 800 miles. Hell, that would kick ass!!! Show these California guys how to do it. I drove from Placerville to the Bakersfield meeting. I did Surprise once. I want to do it again.

Scott

I've never even SEEN surprise, since it was already closed when i started wheelin, but i will be takin the time to go fight for it. Hell if there was a meeting in San Diego about a trail in texas i'll never see i'd be there.

Dallas

I will be at the Pasadena meeting #2 if I get off work in time.
I managed to get a long lunch and hit the LA Boxer protest - how many of you were there?
If you wanna talk apathy, try this one - a couple years ago I tried to put together an e-mail list and start sending out flyers that people could start leaving at 4X4 shops, motorcycle and water-sports shops and on 4X4 vehicles. The flyers would have info about what the CBD and others were doing to their recreational opportunities.
It was like trying to wake the dead. I pulled the e-mail addresses from the Cal4Wheel club contact lists. I actually got a large response - from people asking me to remove them from the list! And other responses from people telling me that they "wheel to get away from all this", that they don't want to get politically involved.
So maybe we should adopt some of the greenies tactics. What can we do do that doesn't require a whole lot of effort on the part of the mainstream ORVers, because that's what the greenies do with mainstream America. Blanket the state (country?) with some slick postcards asking for $5 and $25 donations? I don't believe that e-mail petitions are worth much, but what about blanketing the state with postcards that people could sign and return? Both of these are tactics used by the Sierra Club and it seems to have at least some measure of succcess for them.
Part of the problem is public perception. Most people, even many 4 wheelers, aren't aware of these developements, or if they are, they don't believe that it will have that much of an effect on them. Educating the people on this board is like preaching to the choir - we already know. We need to let Joe Jetskier and Billy-Bob Three Times a Year Motorcycle Rider know about these actions and how it will affect them, and then give them a $25 donation postcard and a "Barbara Boxer Don't Close My Riding Area You Bitch" postcard. These are the people we have to reach.
I saw a copy of an internal Sierra Club video years ago, and a couple of the things the guy said still stick with me. He said "Thank God for the spotted owl, or we would have had to find another endangered species". He also said something like "The battle for public perception will decide the fate of the forests". I believe the battle for public perception will decide the fate of off road recreation. Arguing with beauracrats will only gain us some measure of success. We need to launch a nationwide information campaign that reaches mainstream America. If anybody is interested in launching some of these ideas, let me know - I'd be willing help get this going.

BTT

btt

The folks that want to simply get away from Landuse issues (and ignore the political activist side of wheeling as a sport) need to realize that the Surprise Canyon debate has all the credentials to set precedence. The potential precedence is that a Congressionally recognized RS 2477 cherrystem road near designated Wilderness can be closed, simply due to it's proximity to potential T&E species in the adjacent Wilderness, without the ruling of Congress.

Think about Dusey-Ersham, Fordyce Creek, Rubicon, Sherman Pass, Monache (all in the Sierra Nevada), and the trails in your neighborhood that are adjacent to designated Wilderness?

The litigation by the CBD is a test case to determine if greens can legally stipulate a court order to overrule a Congressional Act (the Act that originally wrote the cherrystem or trail designation as acceptable, adjacent to designated Wilderness without a buffer zone). Many public land advocates fail to grasp the importance of the exclusion and restriction of buffer zones written into the original Wilderness Act of 1964 (preventing the debate of species protection on lands adjacent to Wilderness)?

Think about the result if they get away with the concept? They will be able to overrule an Act of Congress through litigation and brokered legal stipulations. The result allows them the power to litigate the Judicial branch of our government in their favor, without any of the checks and balances of the Executive and Legislature branches of government, without the oversight of elected officials.

They potentially will be able to have an extreme green (deep ecology) ideology supporter (lets say a Judge appointed to the District 9 Court, the same Court that ruled "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance is unconstitutional) make an independent ruling without constitutional checks and balances inherent in or system of government. Think about this result, again, someone none of the public elected will overrule our two elected branches of government on a public land management issue (the status of established public rights of way on public land).

Guess who advised the Clinton Administration to try bypassing Congress and the Judicial branch of government by pushing through the Roadless Rule, without valid public or judicial review, maybe extreme environmental appointments in government? It requires little guessing to determine who is trying to ignore the US Constitution regarding the issues behind the Surprise Canyon litigation.

You may have never thought a bunch of respectful hard working people like off-road enthusiasts would be unknowingly caught up in constitutional law issues, but there is a reason off-road enthusiasts are hard in the crosshairs of the extreme environmental gun site, we are the defenders of the constitution in this issue.

Happy Trails!

Can I use this in San Diego? That is some good stuff!!!

Also, in the Cleveland National Forest at the Coral Canyon OHV area the Wilderness DOES BUTT UP AGAINST the main trail with no "Buffer Zone"!! There are plenty of signs and a fence to keep people out of the Wilderness Area.

Hey, I'm going to be out there on the 6th. If I'm not from the area, can I still go, wear red and support?

:D

There are a bunch of us that will be attending the Mission Valley meeting on the 6th.

Bud

Originally posted by pokey
There are a bunch of us that will be attending the Mission Valley meeting on the 6th.

Bud

How many is a bunch? Inquiring minds want to know!!

I'm not much on public speaking I'm just here to get people together!!

Originally posted by primergray


How many is a bunch? Inquiring minds want to know!!

Well, there was at least a 20 to 1 ratio at the last meeting we attended. The whole sand assotiation will also be there. There is probably going to be 10 to 15 of us from dehesa. We're taking care of it down here. How about you?

Bud

Originally posted by pokey


Well, there was at least a 20 to 1 ratio at the last meeting we attended. The whole sand tion also be there. There is probably going to be 10 to 15 of us from dehesa. We're taking care of it down here. How about you?

Bud

All of my shit talking has finally caught up with me!!

primergray
LCQueen
Steve(not registered here)
SanDiegoCJ
Todd
Stinkbug
Bill4rest
LiveWire

This is my list, we still outnumbered!! Is this any incentive to get in?

The Sand Association has more people than we do and this is a "Crawler" Trail"??!!!

How about a list of people going to the Pasadena meeting?
1) withamc

Originally posted by primergray


All of my shit talking has finally caught up with me!!

primergray
LCQueen
Steve(not registered here)
SanDiegoCJ
Todd
Stinkbug
Bill4rest
LiveWire

This is my list, we still outnumbered!! Is this any incentive to get in?

The Sand Association has more people than we do and this is a "Crawler" Trail"??!!!

Don't know for sure but I heard the Sand assotiation was going to be attending also. Sure hope so, there were quite a few of them there last time. With thier rigs and toys no less. In any case, I'll be there and hope to see some of you people there.

Bud:)

See this Thread people

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=71626

I stepped up!! Will you?

btt

btt

BTT.......
















August 5
Sheraton Pasadena Hotel
303 East Cordova Street
Pasadena, CA 91101























;)