With all the knowledge floating around here I figure I could get a good answer for my question. Witch is stronger a stock D44 out of the front of a 1/2 ton chevy(83) or a well bulit toyota front out of a 84 toyota???????? The reason I ask is that I have a stock d44 out back but I don't wan't to do all the work to make it fit unless it will be for the better ,.........Or should I just spend the money and up grade the toy axle????.........and NO I don't wan't to find a D60 and build that .....I have a 44 already and want to use it if it's strong enough??????????

U better start running...

Originally posted by TOY 2
With all the knowledge floating around here I figure I could get a good answer for my question. Witch is stronger a stock D44 out of the front of a 1/2 ton chevy(83) or a well bulit toyota front out of a 84 toyota???????? The reason I ask is that I have a stock d44 out back but I don't wan't to do all the work to make it fit unless it will be for the better ,.........Or should I just spend the money and up grade the toy axle????.........and NO I don't wan't to find a D60 and build that .....I have a 44 already and want to use it if it's strong enough??????????

Well Iam running the Dana 44 on the front of my Tacoma, and if I had to do the SAS over again, I would prob. do the toy axle. I have a 84 toy that I have not had one bit opf trouble out of, and my Dana 44, on the other hand.......... haha I would stay with the Toy axle, unless you are looking to go wider. I have heard a lot of people say they think the Toyota axle is their version of the Dana 44. Pretty much the same as far as strenght.. Thats just what I have heard.

If you already have a Toy axle, with the new allow inner shafts and Longfields, I see no reason to swap in a 44...

Originally posted by TOY 2
With all the knowledge floating around here I figure I could get a good answer for my question. Witch is stronger a stock D44 out of the front of a 1/2 ton chevy(83) or a well bulit toyota front out of a 84 toyota???????? The reason I ask is that I have a stock d44 out back but I don't wan't to do all the work to make it fit unless it will be for the better ,.........Or should I just spend the money and up grade the toy axle????.........and NO I don't wan't to find a D60 and build that .....I have a 44 already and want to use it if it's strong enough??????????


go w/ a toy and longfields.. stronger and toy axles are a lot easier to work on.. plus things like histeer and locker install is a lil easier.. as is chaning a birf compared to a uee.. i'd say toy axle over dana 44 anyday unless u need fullwidth.. toy axles have some really good features .. :eek:

I Want to thank everyone for there thought's.......I'm glad to here that a toy axle is the stronger of the two...........and I agree they are easer to work on:D :D :D

I didn't know that chevy used a 44 after 79? I have been building toy axles the last two years (been building diffs for 20 years) Just started building a 44 for my jeep (waggy axle) and made wonder why anyone would choose it over a Toyota unless they wanted a wider axle and had a lot of cash for warn axles and ctm's. Just my 2c.....Good luck:D

If I don't have a D44 in my 83 GMC then what is it:confused: :confused: :confused: ....I just assumed that it was a 44...........I know I have a 14 bolt in the rear

Ultimate toy axle is longfields+hardened inners+stock 4.11's in the diffs+arb. That combo is WAAAAAAYYYY stronger than a stock D44.

It is probably a 10 blt. Chevy switched from 44's to 10's in the 78-79 era. Stick with the toy, unless you want to go a lot wider.

Originally posted by 98Taco
Well Iam running the Dana 44 on the front of my Tacoma, and if I had to do the SAS over again, I would prob. do the toy axle.
What would you do to get the passenger side diff on the Toy axle to meet up with the driver side drop on the Taco t-case?

It's all pretty much an opinion thing now. I think strength issues are a wash. However Toy axles are easier to work on? How do you figure? There a damn mess. I've broken plenty of birfs (stock) and wouldn't change a u-joint, that's what a welders for. I used to carry full spares when ran the Toy axle ( both inner and outer already put together ) and do the same w/the 44, changing an axle on a 44 is much easier, well a lot less messy anyway. I've welded my joints and am running stock shafts and harder trails w/less problems than w/my Toy axle.

For me width was the key, ask anybody who's done it, wider is better. The second biggy is that I can turn way sharper w/the 44, in Oregon that matters. 3rd is the hi-pinion, d-line is up high now. Steering options are greater w/the 44 and easier as there is no king pin to deal w/. I'm happier than hell that I finally did it.

BTW - how many of you have bashed that stamped Toy housing, especially the diff cover? I had a dent in mine that was missing the ring gear by mils, I've bashed the 44 cover much harder and it's still fine. 44's are still a dime a dozen compared to Toy fronts.

I think the reason the toy axle is better/stronger is the toy kingpin over the d44 ball joint. Big tires will kill the d44 ball joints. A d44 w/ warn shafts and ctm ujoints will compare to a toy axle w/ alloy inners and longfields.

what about the weight difference?? i konw that a toy axle is gigga light!! i would use a toy axle cause the availablility is easy to find stuff. You can also do x-over steering on a toy axle for the cost of a stock passenger steering arm($15). Hi-pinion would be nice, but you can get a hi-pinion third for the cost of finding a good d44....

Originally posted by skank da sock puppet

What would you do to get the passenger side diff on the Toy axle to meet up with the driver side drop on the Taco t-case?
swap to dual gear driven cases by either swapping to a W56 tranny (just like your buddies at AP did :D) or get an adapter from Marlin to go from the Tacoma tranny to the gear driven tcase. Tim Curl has the Marlin adapter setup. Hell he had that last year in Moab. Wish he'd finish that thing! :mad:

I dont see people comparing apples to apples here. Everybody is saying longfields, alloy inners ect ect is stronger than a "STOCK" dana 44. Ok... has anybody on here compared a dana 44 with Warns and CTM with a Toy axle with Longfields? IMO ...stock toy axle to stock 44 is ~about the same strength.

I also like the fact that parts are available for a Dana axle at any local parts store. If you need wheel bearings, hubs, brakes, seals, what ever... the local parts store is going to have it! And price for Dana 44 parts is always cheaper that for Toyotas. Toyota parts are always expensive.

Ive never worked on a Toy axle... but if an axle does break on a Dana 44... it only take me 30mins to remove the busted axle and replace it with a new one. The Dana Axle is very very easy to work on.

IMO.. If you have a Dana 44 axle already... Keep it... Throw some CTMs and Warn shafts in the bitch, and go wheel hard!

Yogi

But... My favorite thing about a Toy axle is the fact that you can carry around a spare 3rd member if your a really hard core wheeler. And if your rear axle is an 8" also... then 1 3rd member can cover both the front and rear. This is a great option to have available to you.Originally posted by TOY 2
With all the knowledge floating around here I figure I could get a good answer for my question. Witch is stronger a stock D44 out of the front of a 1/2 ton chevy(83) or a well bulit toyota front out of a 84 toyota???????? The reason I ask is that I have a stock d44 out back but I don't wan't to do all the work to make it fit unless it will be for the better ,.........Or should I just spend the money and up grade the toy axle????.........and NO I don't wan't to find a D60 and build that .....I have a 44 already and want to use it if it's strong enough??????????

a toy is comperbale to a 44. they will both upgrade about the same.

that said they are both weak. get a 60

*Bows* to the rainbow warrior :D

hehehehe i just had to throw that last tid bit in there :evil:

hehehehe i just had to throw that last tid bit in there :evil:

Originally posted by brimy311
i would use a toy axle cause the availablility is easy to find stuff. Hi-pinion would be nice, but you can get a hi-pinion third for the cost of finding a good d44....

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm D44's came in Fords, jeeps, chevy's, scouts and dodge's from a wide range of years, many using the same components. Toy pu front ends came in.........................toy pu's. Not quite sure how you see toy parts being more available???????
D44 front ends can be picked up for $250 complete. do you know what a hi pinion 3rd will run you???

Originally posted by camo
a toy is comperbale to a 44. they will both upgrade about the same.

that said they are both weak. get a 60

Ditto!:flipoff2:

wilson.....most dana 44's had different axle shaft lengths and outers.

Originally posted by yogiaz
but if an axle does break on a Dana 44... it only take me 30mins to remove the busted axle and replace it with a new one.

Does that 30 minutes start after you've been towed off the trail and have driven home already?

:rolleyes:

:laughing:

I get it.... more bagging on the yogimeister because he did not bring a trailspare with him that day! LOL

Well... If I wait till I get home... it takes less time! :)

Yogi

:p

Originally posted by fullywrecked


Ditto!:flipoff2:

wilson.....most dana 44's had different axle shaft lengths and outers.

That's obvious, I was referring to ball joints, bearings, hubs, seals and stuff like that. The main point was the #'s of D44's around, compared to toy axles. I'm pretty sure that all of the stub shafts are the same. Outers match up pretty well, based on lug configuration (5,6 or 8 lug) 10 bolt stuff swaps with D44 stuff as well.

Originally posted by Wilson


That's obvious, I was referring to ball joints, bearings, hubs, seals and stuff like that. The main point was the #'s of D44's around, compared to toy axles. I'm pretty sure that all of the stub shafts are the same. Outers match up pretty well, based on lug configuration (5,6 or 8 lug) 10 bolt stuff swaps with D44 stuff as well.

Stub shafts are differant as well as spindles, bearings, etc. My friend is having a hard time finding the right spindle for his, and I think he has 3 differant ones at the moment :DGo to Warn fo rmore info (http://www.warn.com/warn.nsf/pages/ContactUs.LiteratureRequest.Main.html)

The Flattop chevys seem to be extreamly popular for the hysteer conversion. But... what you see as a problem... alot of people see as a choice. People can easily customize their setup with different parts and configurations.

Yogi

Originally posted by Bones


Stub shafts are differant as well as spindles, bearings, etc. My friend is having a hard time finding the right spindle for his, and I think he has 3 differant ones at the moment :DGo to Warn fo rmore info (http://www.warn.com/warn.nsf/pages/ContactUs.LiteratureRequest.Main.html)

Originally posted by TyTy
Ultimate toy axle is longfields+hardened inners+stock 4.11's in the diffs+arb. That combo is WAAAAAAYYYY stronger than a stock D44.

Hmmmm...exactly what I just put together last night.

Jay

Originally posted by yogiaz
And price for Dana 44 parts is always cheaper that for Toyotas. Toyota parts are always expensive.

Am curious.....how much are wheel bearings, hubs, brakes, seals for a D44?

Jay

Originally posted by brector
I think the reason the toy axle is better/stronger is the toy kingpin over the d44 ball joint. Big tires will kill the d44 ball joints.

I have seen a fair number of D44s spit up a ball joint or crack a knuckle, leaving the vehicle unable to roll a tire on it's own. I have yet to see a Toy knuckle do this......

Jay

I dotn remember on the bearings and such. But my brake calipers were 11.99 lifetime warranty. :)

Yogi

Originally posted by ROKTOY


Am curious.....how much are wheel bearings, hubs, brakes, seals for a D44?

Jay

Originally posted by ROKTOY


Am curious.....how much are wheel bearings, hubs, brakes, seals for a D44?

Jay
It all adds up fast on a full rebuild. Here is my screwed up parts # page with some prices (http://www.mo-4xtoys.com/Bones/Part-nos.htm) I dropped $300+ in calipers, pads, bearings, seals rod ends, etc. Then I still needed the ball joints. When I did my SAS the Longfields were just out and I was thinking it'd be another Newfield, etc. and sold all my front axle parts :( Now I have some added width with the 44, but wish I would have stuck with a Toyota front now. Can't afford to switch now since I have an ARB, hi-steer, etc all tied up into mine. I haven't broke anything on my 44 yet, so time will tell I guess.

Originally posted by ROKTOY


I have seen a fair number of D44s spit up a ball joint or crack a knuckle, leaving the vehicle unable to roll a tire on it's own. I have yet to see a Toy knuckle do this......

Jay

that's right.............king pins rule;) and you only turn sharper if you go wider.........a 44 the same width will still let the tire hit the leaf springs at the same point. build what you want, I could care less if someone wants a or b front axle, just read the facts, don't let the guys yodelin "mines better" interfer with common sense and facts.:flipoff2:

Werd!

Read the facts is so true! If there was a drivers side drop toy axle the same width as my Tacoma rear I would have gone that route just to keep it all toyota! but... for my application a drivers side drop Wagoneer axle already the correct width was the easiest and cheapest way to go.

My motto is "get the best bang for the buck". So if that is a Toy, Dana 44 , or a fawking 60... go for it!

Yogi


Originally posted by SeaBass44
I could care less if someone wants a or b front axle, just read the facts, don't let the guys yodelin "mines better" interfer with common sense and facts.:flipoff2:

what about a dana 44 from a 1967 ford truck? it was hi-pinion and had king pins. if you dont belive me look at augusts issue of 4WOR. BTW they also had Dana 60 5-lug 35 spline rear axles.

Yep, when I did mine, longfileds weren't out yet, so it was a lot cheaper to beef up a D44 than to hybrid a toy axle.

-Jay here's what I remeber for prices on my complete rebuild:

-loaded calipers: $30 ea
-new rotors: $30 ea
-ball joints : ~ $20 ea
-seal kit (SBK1) : $15 ea
-inner axle seals: $10 ea
-wheel bearings and races: ~ $20ea
- I consider it to be part of my crossover conversion, but my 1 ton F350 ends were $110 for all 4, I changed one of the long ones for a short lh thread which was $20 more than the other short side.

Originally posted by TR
what about a dana 44 from a 1967 ford truck? it was hi-pinion and had king pins. if you dont belive me look at augusts issue of 4WOR. BTW they also had Dana 60 5-lug 35 spline rear axles.

That article also mentioned how rare both of those axles are.

Originally posted by TR
if you dont belive me look at augusts issue of 4WOR. .

why? Do you think the mags are all knowing? The mags say Lance's LC is a "suzuki thing" and Camo's old 79=83 p/u is a 4runner............Com Awn! Mags blow, get real and like was said "in the mag" it's rare. I don't buy mags anymore=gay

And if they are rare... Im sure they are expensive! LOL Usually everthing that is rare is.

Yogi

Originally posted by Wilson


That article also mentioned how rare both of those axles are.

Originally posted by skank da sock puppet

What would you do to get the passenger side diff on the Toy axle to meet up with the driver side drop on the Taco t-case?

Allpro sell an adapter kit to change over to the older transfer case, and will get the Pass. Drop. I am looking to do that if I keep the truck.

Longfields really changed the tone of this argument, it seems.

High Steer prices, height, length, etc -- advantage Dana 44. There are quite a few Toy parts, but no where near as many as the D44, and not as cheap.

Bolt-on knuckle-top steering -- advantage Toyota. Gotta love those trunion bearings. Sure, you can find flat-top knuckles Dana 44s, but they are on every single Toyota front 4x4 axle I've ever seen.

Differential design -- advantage Toyota. Gotta love that third member. That said, I helped a buddy remove a broken axle from a Dana 44 a while back, and extracting the broken stub was WAYyyyyyyyyyyy easier than it would have been with the Yota. We only had to pull one side of the axle apart and pop the cover (hey, Chris -- mebbe AllPro could incorporate a removable cover in those snazzy custom Toy housings? :D )

Pinion flange - advantage Toyota. I'll take a flat flange any day over u-bolts or straps -- makes swapping in the spare faster and easier.

Randii

Good points Randii

Yea... I love the flat flange too. That is why I bought the Dana 44 / Toyota flange from Jess at Highangle. It puts a Toyota Flange on a Dana Axle. That way my driveshaft has toyota ends on both sides. :)

Here is a good picture of it! My pinion is also rotated up 9*

http://www.azttora.com/pinionangle.jpg

Yogi

Originally posted by randii
Longfields really changed the tone of this argument, it seems.

High Steer prices, height, length, etc -- advantage Dana 44. There are quite a few Toy parts, but no where near as many as the D44, and not as cheap.

Bolt-on knuckle-top steering -- advantage Toyota. Gotta love those trunion bearings. Sure, you can find flat-top knuckles Dana 44s, but they are on every single Toyota front 4x4 axle I've ever seen.

Differential design -- advantage Toyota. Gotta love that third member. That said, I helped a buddy remove a broken axle from a Dana 44 a while back, and extracting the broken stub was WAYyyyyyyyyyyy easier than it would have been with the Yota. We only had to pull one side of the axle apart and pop the cover (hey, Chris -- mebbe AllPro could incorporate a removable cover in those snazzy custom Toy housings? :D )

Pinion flange - advantage Toyota. I'll take a flat flange any day over u-bolts or straps -- makes swapping in the spare faster and easier.

Randii

i said that availability of a toy axle is more then a d44, because toy axles in michigan are a dime a dozen...i don't even have a toyota yet and i have two sets of toy axles by my garage...i had a hard time finding shafts for my d44 when i broke them...and did no have the dinaro to get warns....

also, does anyone know the weight difference of a d44 and toyota axle...i bet the toy axle is way lighter then the d44

I know that the Dana 44 weighs more than the Toy axle. My rear toyota axle cracked half way around the tube near the spring perch. robert Cannons axle tore open on the Rubicon run a few weeks ago. Comparing the Dana empty housing to the toyota empty housing... the dana 44 weighs alot more. Which I think is better! The dana housing is alot stronger IMO than the Toyota.

Yogi

Originally posted by brimy311
also, does anyone know the weight difference of a d44 and toyota axle...i bet the toy axle is way lighter then the d44

Toy 8"
Front 270lb
Rear 220lb

Dana 44
Front 300lb
Rear 250lb

Samurai
Front 179lb
Rear 134lb

Originally posted by TR
what about a dana 44 from a 1967 ford truck? it was hi-pinion and had king pins. if you dont belive me look at augusts issue of 4WOR.

Probably also has drum brakes and the older (smaller) style u-joints. :p


Originally posted by Bones
(D44) Stub shafts are differant as well as spindles, bearings, etc. My friend is having a hard time finding the right spindle for his, and I think he has 3 differant ones at the moment

Some are different especially w/ different makes... however GM/Chevy (44 and 10-bolt) and full size Jeep (Cherokees, J-trucks, Wagoneers) are all compatible (only difference being big-bearing vs. small-bearing), and I'd bet there are FAR more of all of those axles out there than Toy solid axles. ;)

Originally posted by yogiaz
My rear toyota axle cracked half way around the tube near the spring perch.
Yogi

I've seen a few of these and wondered why.....

Too stiff springs
Improper u-bolt setup
Mis-aligned spring hanger mounts
Or ???

Jay

i can answer the "or" part.


or?....................your a retard and drive like camo. :D

100 wall tube vs 250 wall tube... nuff sed?

Hey Dave....Where did you get your sig!

:flipoff2:

Yea... I guess it has to be my fault and not a weak axle housing.

:)

Yogi

:flipoff2:flipoff2

Originally posted by ROKTOY


I've seen a few of these and wondered why.....

Too stiff springs
Improper u-bolt setup
Mis-aligned spring hanger mounts
Or ???

Jay :

ROKTOY-----regarding the crack in the rear axle housing near the perches.....I had that happen back in 88 on my old 84 Yota....I had recently had some work done to the rear packs and the guys at Southwest Spring-Tucson used the impact to tighten the u-bolts up....I bet it has something to do with a thin housing and tight u-bolts.

Originally posted by ZUK
I bet it has something to do with a thin housing and tight u-bolts.

Good point ZUK.

I understand the housing is thinner than a Dana 44 but plenty work
well for years and some seem to crack rather easily.....
just looking for something that's speeding up the process.

Given the theory that it's just the thin axle housing,
wouldn't you think the AP perch mounts would be causing
cracking even quicker....without the wraparound support of
the u-bolts?....yet I don't think they do.

Camo....you're just "special".

Jay

I've been wondering about the cracked housings too. Its happened to a few people on the T100 board, and those trucks were fairly new and not wheeled at all. Our T100 hasn't had that problem though, and it has been wheeled a little bit (as well as overloaded quite a few times).

Originally posted by ROKTOY


I've seen a few of these and wondered why.....

Too stiff springs
Improper u-bolt setup
Mis-aligned spring hanger mounts
Or ???

Jay

My impression of this (since I've been fighting it for a while now) is that the ends of the axle are literally being "twisted" off the housing. The cracks on mine seem to start at the perch and work their way around the tube. I imagine large tires and axle wrap (or even limiting axle wrap) speed up the process. Just a theory..... :D

I agree with you completely! That is exactley what happened to mine. The crack started on the side of the spring perch... then continued on down the front of the housing. If I did not catch it... the housing would eventually have twisted off. It seem that when axle wrap is limited, and you add a crawler and lockers... it tends to be more prone to breakage.

Yogi

Originally posted by Bad Karma


My impression of this (since I've been fighting it for a while now) is that the ends of the axle are literally being "twisted" off the housing. The cracks on mine seem to start at the perch and work their way around the tube. I imagine large tires and axle wrap (or even limiting axle wrap) speed up the process. Just a theory..... :D

Then what do you think about running a link suspension, then? Or are you talking about that when you refer to "limiting wrap"?

OK, maybe it's just a hypothesis. :flipoff2: Actually, the major contributor is probably the brakes. The axles themselves spin relatively freely in the housing, but when brakes are applied, the axleshafts are then physically connected and apply force to the housing. And with the Toy housings being on the thin side, they begin to fail. Like I said, just my 0.02. :D

yes the brakes will cause the housing to rotate. but when you nail the throttle the pinion rotates up and the springs or traction bars try to limit this action. think of it as the pinion is tring to climb up the ring gear, and if the tires do not move but the pinion is still rotating the housing will twist up and if it is bad enough it can crack the housing like yogiaz's housing.

Yep, that too. :D Actually, I like that idea better.