Which one's are better? I have seen the warn axles and they look damn beefy. Are they worth the extra $100?

I like the Warns in my D44. I have broke 2 Ujoints since they were installed and they suffered no damage what-so-ever. These axles wont solve the ujoint breaking problem though.............I will be installing a Dana 60 this winter! Fawk It <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

I was told that all of the axles are from the same blanks. It just depends on who you buy them from is whos name is stamped on it. Not sure about Warns though.

Originally posted by The Rockslut:
<STRONG>I was told that all of the axles are from the same blanks. It just depends on who you buy them from is whos name is stamped on it. Not sure about Warns though.</STRONG>

i dont believe that after recieving a moser, the yoke is visually alot beefier than any axle ive seen...

The standard axles that dutchman and moser are the same (spicer blanks), but the alloys are different. Moser has their own 1541 alloy, i think thats the #??? Dutchman uses 4340 warn shafts. The warn alloy is supposed to be harder.

My Dutchman catalog states the following:
Rear axles use 1541-H

For the front axles:
Dana 44 inner and outer shafts are now available two ways. Your choice of Spicer or the new thru hardened chrome moly 4340.

I have a moser very beefy. I would go with them.

Originally posted by RCKRATZ:
<STRONG>The standard axles that dutchman and moser are the same (spicer blanks), but the alloys are different. Moser has their own 1541 alloy, i think thats the #??? Dutchman uses 4340 warn shafts. The warn alloy is supposed to be harder.</STRONG>


this isnt a standard, it had a tag on it advising to check steering due to more material around the ears....

What about these axle shafts??

Drivetrain Warehouse (888)432-7656 sells lifetime warrenty alloy *inner* shafts for the 3/4 ton D44. Long side is $169, short is $149. He said it is a no questions asked policy.

Since they are lifetime warranty - no questions asked - I'm going this route. I just need to call them and find out what brand shafts they use.

Originally posted by brector:
<STRONG>What about these axle shafts??

Drivetrain Warehouse (888)432-7656 sells lifetime warrenty alloy *inner* shafts for the 3/4 ton D44. Long side is $169, short is $149. He said it is a no questions asked policy.

Since they are lifetime warranty - no questions asked - I'm going this route. I just need to call them and find out what brand shafts they use.</STRONG>

But can you get them in custom lengths? The moser inner shafts I bought are a lot beefier than the stock units, bigger ears, and no neckdown by the splines and only cost about $130 each. But no warranty that I know of.

Originally posted by old jeep:
<STRONG>But can you get them in custom lengths? The moser inner shafts I bought are a lot beefier than the stock units, bigger ears, and no neckdown by the splines and only cost about $130 each. But no warranty that I know of.</STRONG>

Not sure - I *thought* they had to neck down for the oil seal??

The warn axles are supposed to be 4340 and the Moser ones are supposed to be their 1541 alloy that they use on all of their stuff. The Moser axles are beefier on the yoke, but I have heard that you lose steering angle. The alloy doesnt mean anything unless the heat treat is right and in the right places. Both axle manufacturers induction harden the shafts, but the question is: who hardens the yoke end? isnt that where most of the falures occur. this is the problem with the oem spicer axles, the shaft area is hardened, but he yoke is dead soft. By looking at the picture of the moser shafts, they dont appear the be heat treated on the yoke area, and the warn shafts appear to be, but I dont know for sure. If any one wants to call and find out, please let me know.


FYI, in the near future, Superior Gear will have some new front axles that will be made of the right alloy and heat treated in the right places. My money is on them

Originally posted by goat1:
FYI, in the near future, Superior Gear will have some new front axles that will be made of the right alloy and heat treated in the right places. My money is on them[/QB]

And what would the right alloy be?

Originally posted by badassjeepguy:
<STRONG>
this isnt a standard, it had a tag on it advising to check steering due to more material around the ears....</STRONG>

I wasn't refering to the yokes, i was refering to the material used. They both use spicer blanks and cut them down. What I was wondering is which Alloys will hold up to u-joint breakage. From what I have gathered it seems as though the Warn's are the way to go.

Originally posted by RCKRATZ:
<STRONG>I wasn't refering to the yokes, i was refering to the material used. They both use spicer blanks and cut them down. What I was wondering is which Alloys will hold up to u-joint breakage. From what I have gathered it seems as though the Warn's are the way to go.</STRONG>


ahhh who da hell knows....... just build a 60 and be done! thats what im doin <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

It's amazing how none of us have the same info on this:

This is what I got when I called each of them.

(And this is for each's alloy ones - not the spicer versions Moser and Dutchman offer)

Moser - 1541 Modified, induction hardened, cold cut splines

Dutchman - 4340, Thru hardened, splines cut after heat treat

Warn - 4340, Thru hardened, no custom lengths, nut can sell long blanks for machine shop to cut and slpine

A quick call or visit to their web sites will likely confirm what I'm saying.

As far as which is best?

Depends if you need a more ductile (moser) or harder (warn/dutchman) axle.

I believe the more ductile provide a better fatigue life, the harder greater resistance to one-time overload.

Depends on your needs.

Thank you Billavista. Thats all the info. i needed to know. Looks like warn shafts since what i am hoping is that if i bust a u-joint the yoke will hold up. We'll see.

FWIW I just found out that Randys ring & pinion will soon cary alloy D 60 front 35 spline outer shafts. Cost will be about the same as Spicer 35 spline outers. About $110 or so. Don't know what alloy but Dutchman makes much of thier custom stuff. Be about 6 mo or so before thier on the market. <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">

"cold cut splines"

Does that mean pre-heat treatment?

CTM racing also has some axles.
www.ctmracing.com (http://www.ctmracing.com)

Andy

Sorry to send everyone to such a <IMG SRC="smilies/rainbow.gif" border="0"> website, but maybe you could call them to actually find out what they make. They sell a nice looking dana 60 35 spline stub kit anyway.

Andy

4340 is a lot stronger(hardness depends greatly on heat treat!!) than 1541. Both can be ductile. It depends on heat treat. If I was going to use one or the other(for any use) I would go with the 4340.

There is only one step up in metal from that, and that is 300M. And that is some SWEET stuff!

Superior uses 1541 for a lot of their stuff. But they have been working with some other metals for things coming up. They they do some pretty cool heat treats. I've used them for work, they definetly know their stuff.

Plus they roll their splines, so that is a good reason to go with them.

"cold cut splines"
Does that mean pre-heat treatment?



No, quite the opposite. It was the expression the guy I talked to at Moser used. He explained that they cut them after the heat treating, and do not re heat treat.

'Course if you want to get nuts - maybe try Strange Engineering - these guys make things like 40 spline D60 axles for drag cars out of their own "Hy Tuff" alloy that is thru hardened - they also do a 1541 induction hardened street and strip. Prob. don't do front axles though.

You always want splines that are made BEFORE hea treating. Otherwise you loose a lot of hardened material!

Hell if they were smart, the ywould all do it before. After you harden the material, it cost more to cut/roll the splines. That means their profit goes down.

Originally posted by Kicker:
<STRONG>You always want splines that are made BEFORE hea treating. Otherwise you loose a lot of hardened material!

Hell if they were smart, the ywould all do it before. After you harden the material, it cost more to cut/roll the splines. That means their profit goes down.</STRONG>

But then they wouldn't be able to have a bunch of blanks on the shelf to cut when a customer calls & orders. They would have to cut then harden. Makes it take longer to get orders out.

It also makes a lot of axles just plain not available. I went looking for axles for my waggy front 44, other than custom order, the pnp is the only place to get them. People like Superior don't make them, so you're left with cold cut splines whether you like it or not.

So you're left with induction hardened axles with the splines cut through the hardened material and into the soft stuff below. That bites, if you ax me. I'd wait and pay extra for a nice 4340 alloy shaft that has rolled splines and THEN is through hardened. Otherwise, OEM shafts are actually BETTER at the spline end than a Moser is. At least OEM is rolled and then induction hardened, making each individual spline and the material under and around it very tough.

Hmmm...makes me rethink buying any of the current aftermarket axleshafts. Of course you still get the benefit of the hardened yokes, unlike the yukky soft yokesa of OEM.

Andy

I mounted a stock shaft and looked at it metalographically the hardened depth is almost 1/4 inch so I think it is fine to cut the splines after induction hardening. I agree it would be better to roll them before, but whatever I have never seen a failure in the spline area on any front dana 44.

I'm sorry if I wrote things the wrong way. It is true it is faster to have heat treated blanks just laying around. That's obvious. If a fews days are gonna kill ya, then I understand.

Its true, the splines shouldn't be deeper than the heat treat (otherwise you will break real quick!). But every little bit of heat treat helps.

And about whether people break at the splines or not, I don't know. I'm a newbie to the Jeep thing, my experience is drag racing, road racing, and off road racing. So I have no clue where the things break or don't.

Simply put, if you want the strongest part, you want the splines rolled before heat treat. And if the brekages are not in the splines now, they might be when you fix the other areas.

Remember, its as strong as the weakest link.

Plus an easy way to fix the cut spline is to have them shot peened when you get them. That will take even out the difference between rolled and cut.

Originally posted by XJS:
<STRONG>So you're left with induction hardened axles with the splines cut through the hardened material and into the soft stuff below. That bites, if you ax me. I'd wait and pay extra for a nice 4340 alloy shaft that has rolled splines and THEN is through hardened. Otherwise, OEM shafts are actually BETTER at the spline end than a Moser is. At least OEM is rolled and then induction hardened, making each individual spline and the material under and around it very tough.

Hmmm...makes me rethink buying any of the current aftermarket axleshafts. Of course you still get the benefit of the hardened yokes, unlike the yukky soft yokesa of OEM.

Andy</STRONG>

The 4340 shafts for the front are through hardened so there is no fear of splining through the heat treat. The factory warn shafts are splined before heat treating so there is no worrys there either. The yokes are larger that spicers and hardened as well. They are a pretty good choice except for mud boggers as the are not flexable enough to take drag race like launches.