How many Lbs do you use on rocks when running Bogger 33"?

Fred from CSC would take his down to 3-4lbs.

it all depends on the rim....I tried to run my 33x14 on a 10" rim....If i got below 6 the beads started popping off.....

I run my 37's at 3-4 psi now with beadlocks.....they work awesome like that!

I dont see many rocks here in Washington state but i run my 33" Boggers at about 2lbs on the trail. Sitting still you cant hardly tell they're aired down the sammi is so light.

I popped a bead on my 33bogger at 10psi, it bounced off a rock , then wrapped itself into a lil mess but thanks to mudlite, we got it reseated and off we went.

yea my boggers are at 7 right now and its still way too much. boggers are so stiff and sammi's are so heavy that it really helps to get buttlocks and go way low with the psi.

Originally posted by ROCKILLER
it really helps to get buttlocks...

I thought Buttlocks were for side hills?:p

boggers........rocks... :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

F & R 3.5 & 2.5 16/35's on 8"s

Boggers and other bias-ply tires are too stiff for Samurai's, in my opinion. :flipoff2: To get the sidewalls to flex worth a damn, you've gotta let so much air out that they pop off the bead if you sneeze the wrong direction.

That's one of the reasons why I got the Swamper SSRs. They're radials (but tough!). At first the sidewalls were disappointingly stiff. Even at 2psi the tires were sitting tall. But after a bit of aired-down driving, they loosened up and now flex really nicely even at higher pressure. I really don't need to air down less than 7psi for the rocks because they just envelope everything beneath them. But the nice thing with this combination of 33x14.50 SSRs and 15x10 steel wheels from RRO is that these rims do NOT want to release the tires' beads. I air down to as low as 2psi for dirt and rocks, and 1/2psi for snow, and I have never lost a bead or even burped any air. It turns the sidewalls into nice wrinkle-wall tires too. :grinpimp:

Beadlocks? Who needs 'em? :flipoff2:

Originally posted by RudeZuk
it all depends on the rim....I tried to run my 33x14 on a 10" rim....If i got below 6 the beads started popping off.....

I run my 37's at 3-4 psi now with beadlocks.....they work awesome like that!

same story here,

Originally posted by high5
boggers........rocks... :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

Boggers do real well if You know how to groove.

Originally posted by zukiman
Boggers and other bias-ply tires are too stiff for Samurai's, in my opinion. :flipoff2: To get the sidewalls to flex worth a damn, you've gotta let so much air out that they pop off the bead if you sneeze the wrong direction.

That's one of the reasons why I got the Swamper SSRs. They're radials (but tough!)


lol, I never lose a bead on 8's and I can't count high enough the # of ssr's I have seen sidewall punchered....or chunked off tread [ask sillyneck, less then 100 miles] and after repeated airdowns the sidewalls deform and they have blowouts at hwy speed. worse tire made in my opinion..........but hey if you like um, great.

SSR's fawking SUCK, I mean there better than a BFG but come Awnn!

Originally posted by fatkid
SSR's fawking SUCK, I mean there better than a BFG but come Awnn!

com awn, suck it...SSR's :rainbow:

A picture of a bias ply tire flexing well on a zuk. (http://www.azrockcrawler.com/_images/2002/2-02tiretest/overdoser169.jpg) And another. (http://www.azrockcrawler.com/_images/2002/2-02tiretest/DSCN9263.JPG) I have seen TSL's do the same.

Swampers will flex. Groove 'em then run down the road with the valve cores out to break 'em in. Worked for me.... before I went radial.:rainbow:

Originally posted by zukiman
Swamper SSRs. They're radials (but tough



ssr's.......tough....:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:



heck i saw two cut on the same jeep last time i was out.

Originally posted by high5
ssr's.......tough....:laughing:

I've talked to a few people that have used SSR's, they don't keep them long. One guy ruined a tire each time out, after buying two replacement tires, he sold them and bought Claws.

SSR's are like Thornbirds..... for show trucks!:flipoff2:

Originally posted by fatkid


Boggers do real well if You know how to groove.


you are right but i have heard you can make a thornbird work with lots of groving too. heck lets get out a racing slick and see how good we can make it. out of the box the bogger does not bite the rocks near as well as a tsl or tsl sx. the tsl's softer compound sticks better than the sx too. i personally have never run boggers but i know what i know from watching others. heck this last weekend in katemcy where it is almost solid rock that feels like 20 grit samd paper i watched a guy with boggers slipping where none of the tires before him slipped. i have seen this on several occations. last time i was in clayton everyone in our group was running sx's (i was still running the 38.5's) and one guy had boggers. the bogger equipped rig (toyota) just couldn't hook up on anything where as non of the rest of us had any problems. i could go on and on.

don't get me wrong the bogger is a good tire for some uses. in the mud and for use on dirt trails and hills they rule. we have alittle of everything here in texas and i get to watch tires in all types of stuff so i am just stating facts from what i have seen. if boggers work for you and where you wheel then run them but they are not for me.

on a side note i have personally run 35x15 tsl's, 36x14.50 tsl radials, 38x14.50 sx's and now 42 tsl's and of all of these listed the tsl's hook up the best in the rocks. the rubber seems to be softer in the tsl than the sx (feels softer than the bogger rubber too)just by feel so this is probably why. i do wish i could get a 42 with the center tread as soft as they are now but have the stiffer/stronger sidewalls with the tread like the sx.

Originally posted by high5




and one guy had boggers. the bogger equipped rig (toyota) just couldn't hook up on anything where as non of the rest of us had any problems.

And I can almost garentee he was overinflated.most guys won't air down enough regaurdless of tire brand.........I don't see the tire being a big part of wheeling, hell I see bald ass a/t's on the rubicon kikin ass all the time, if anyoner is dependent on tires, and seems most on the net are:D then it's time to learn to drive or put aaway the crack pipe before youi burn your fingers it's to damn hot! I want 38-42's I'll run what ever swamper I get a deal on. I'vew runn bfg's 33-35' the knock-offs, 38.5x15 tsl's 16'35 boggers 2 different sets, some goodyear 36x12:50x16.5 hummer bias tires, they all fawkin worked, shit the worst looking were the hummers I couldn't air down below 10lbs and they kiked ass....

Originally posted by SeaBass44

I don't see the tire being a big part of wheeling

i do not agree. the michilin's (sp?) on my wife's 2wd tahoe are not going to work as well in the mud as a set of boggers.


just one example.

Originally posted by high5


i do not agree. the michilin's (sp?) on my wife's 2wd tahoe are not going to work as well in the mud as a set of boggers.


just one example.

Com Awn! That has to be the stupidest reply yet.....you read my post, I stated I was talking about the con, I guess next you will tell me a jeep wheels better then a pinto cause it has 4x4 right? see how it sounds. comprehension is the key here, and retention, so I don't have to keep repeating myself:flipoff2: :flipoff2:

I agree that most ppl dont air down enough. Im sold on my boggers and IMHO, sx's are too stiff and ssr's just fawkin suck, let alone you get shitty tread depth with any swamper radial.

Originally posted by SeaBass44


Com Awn! That has to be the stupidest reply yet.....you read my post, I stated I was talking about the con, I guess next you will tell me a jeep wheels better then a pinto cause it has 4x4 right? see how it sounds. comprehension is the key here, and retention, so I don't have to keep repeating myself


no you said that you did not see the tire being a big part of wheeling. you just used an experience from the con as an example.

as i stated i do not agree. i think the tire is a BIG part of wheeling. if the tire is not a big part of wheeling then air pressure would not play that big of a role. tire tread, compound, construction, size, and air pressure all play a big role in my opinion. granted it all needs to be part of the entire "system" we call our rigs. oh well i guess this makes me a web wheeler. :flipoff2: last weekend at this time i had been wheeling all day and was still weeling at this time.....this weekend i am stuck here at work web wheeling my ass of trying to get my fix! :D

and yes a jeep will kick a pinto's ass:flipoff2:

Boggers have worked for me, although the 33's have a real short side wall that does not work well at all with the weight of my Zuk. I had a real problem with the outer bead untill I got some beadlocks, and then I just started popping the inner bead when I go under 6psi...:)

and yes SSR's are over priced and they are fawking gay!

Originally posted by high5



no you said that you did not see the tire being a big part of wheeling. you just used an experience from the con as an example.

: : :rolleyes: :flipoff2: :flipoff2: .....sorry you don't "get it"

Originally posted by high5



no you said that you did not see the tire being a big part of wheeling. you just used an experience from the con as an example.

as i stated i do not agree. i think the tire is a BIG part of wheeling. if the tire is not a big part of wheeling then air pressure would not play that big of a role. :flipoff2:


"Air pressure" and "ground pressure" are the key words .If the tire was so important ,then why air down in the first place :rolleyes:

Seabass44 .I hear what your saying.

Originally posted by fugly 2



"Air pressure" and "ground pressure" are the key words .If the tire was so important ,then why air down in the first place :rolleyes:

Seabass44 .I hear what your saying.

see the rest of us "get it" people watch the comps and whom ever wins it must be cause they have brand "X" tires they say....lol

Originally posted by SeaBass44


see the rest of us "get it" people watch the comps and whom ever wins it must be cause they have brand "X" tires they say....lol

:rolleyes:

Originally posted by high5


:rolleyes: :D :D

On an overweight vehicle, SSRs might be more fragile (or in your words :rainbow: ) but for a 2000-2500lb Samurai, they're nearly bulletproof. I've run several different brands of tires on rocks ranging from the Rubicon's smooth ones to Arizona's sharp ones, and I know from firsthand experience the difference between strong and weak tires. I ripped 2 different BFG sidewalls in the past while being cautious. I've been as tough on my SSRs sidewalls as I can be and they're immune to trail damage, at least under the light weight of a Samurai. Plus, these 33x14.50's have given me grip to idle up smooth rock faces that 36" TSLs couldn't grip (both on Samurais). So if that makes SSRs :rainbow: then :flipoff:.

Hey Chris, yes those pictures show your Claws overly squashed. At what pressure were they for those photos? I see you've gone full-circle from the last time you came up to the 'Con. Remember all of us telling you that 15lbs was too much air? It took you a while to figure out that we knew what we were talking about.

Originally posted by zukiman
So if that makes SSRs :rainbow: then :flipoff:.

. ooooo the offence flip off, guess you got some sand wedged up your vagina:flipoff2: that flipoff is unnecessary, and kinda GAY to get so upset over what anyone says on the net, it's not like you care what anyone says, you are not going to go sell your ssr's cause we said they are GAY are you? I know guys that from 1st hand exp have never ripped a bfg, dosen't make it bullit proof.......or him correct either, no matter how many times he flips us off............Silly's ssr's had 3 of the 4 tires lose chunks of tread in the 1st 100 miles, interco would only warrenty 3 of the 4 tires too.

Quite to the contrary, I couldn't care less what you think of SSRs. If you don't like 'em, don't use 'em. But just as I won't criticize you for your choice of tires (or say that they're :rainbow: ) I would hope you wouldn't have to criticize mine. But whatever gets you off... :eek:

If you'll be at the Rubicon next week, I'd be happy to show you what it is I like so much about the SSRs. But if you'd rather be closed-minded, that's fine with me too. :D

Originally posted by zukiman


If you'll be at the Rubicon next week, I'd be happy to show you what it is I like so much about the SSRs. But if you'd rather be closed-minded, that's fine with me too. :D

not closed minded, ssr's are a real sticky grippin tire, I have seen this, just stating I have also seen too many sidewall punchers.....I'm trying to make marlins thing, call boggers gay I don't care...hell allot of guys on here hate them:D

Originally posted by zukiman
Plus, these 33x14.50's have given me grip to idle up smooth rock faces that 36" TSLs couldn't grip (both on Samurais). So if that makes SSRs :rainbow: then :flipoff:.

It took you a while to figure out that we knew what we were talking about.


Tech Ed ?
Do you think that the tires ply construction not to mention the difference between the rolling radius of the tires ,33" verses 36" might have had an influence on the tires ability to find traction .Cause I'm pretty sure that the smaller 33" tires would have helped with your gearing ,if nothing else ..Nowhere did you mention the width of the 36" tire .So my tech question for you is :what role did the different ground pressures that the tires [33x14.5 verses 36x ? ] exerted effect traction and why ?

Originally posted by zukiman


Hey Chris, yes those pictures show your Claws overly squashed. At what pressure were they for those photos? I see you've gone full-circle from the last time you came up to the 'Con. Remember all of us telling you that 15lbs was too much air? It took you a while to figure out that we knew what we were talking about.

Uhh, I didn't air down very much on the con because I had no way to air up afterwards and we had to drive to Placerville. Anyway, the claws look like that at 3-5psi. Their carcass is flexible enough that the only way I have lost beads is actually pushing a rock into the side of the tire. Actually the one and only time it happened the rock was about four inches past the rim, my spotter mentioned it after we heard the loud hiss..

I took my new 33x12.5 TSL's out on their maiden voyage to Barnwell this weekend. I went with 5psi. The seemed to hook up well like that. I did not want to go lower w/o beadlocks. I think a little lower would be better though. I was able to crawl everything but the worst trail I tried, Airstrip, man the pucker factor is HIGH on that one. It looks like a straight up cliff from the bottom and there are several ledges at the very top. If you blow it, it would be sky-ground-sky-ground about 15 times back down to the bottom. :D

Originally posted by fugly 2
Tech Ed ?
Do you think that the tires ply construction not to mention the difference between the rolling radius of the tires ,33" verses 36" might have had an influence on the tires ability to find traction .Cause I'm pretty sure that the smaller 33" tires would have helped with your gearing ,if nothing else ..Nowhere did you mention the width of the 36" tire .So my tech question for you is :what role did the different ground pressures that the tires [33x14.5 verses 36x ? ] exerted effect traction and why ?
I figured that I didn't need to quote the width of the 36's since Interco only makes three 36" Bias TSL's: the 36x12.50-15, the 13/36-16, and the 36x12.50-16.5, the widths of which are all within 1/10 of an inch according to Interco's spec sheet.

Gearing was not an issue, as both vehicles have sufficiently low gearing to idle up anything.

The difference in the carcass' construction (radial vs. bias) is exactly my point. Something must make the SSR a grippier tire than the the regular TSL; it's not magic. Most likely it's a combination of several factors (which would include construction, siping and rubber compound among numerous other factors) but I have no doubt that the radial construction of the SSR gives it an advantage, at least on a lightweight Samurai. I don't have the equipment, financial backing, or time to conduct a scientific study on the constructions' exact measureable affects on traction on varying surfaces at varying inflation pressure, so I'll have to leave this up to you to interpret as you see fit.

Regarding your question of ground pressure, this is still a highly debated factor so the best I can offer you is an educated guess. It is my opinion that ground pressure plays more of a roll in mud and snow than it does on dry rocks. Much of the reason I chose the 14.50-inch-wide SSRs is because I believe that more rubber on the ground equates to greater traction in rock and snow, the two terrains in which I do the most 4-wheeling. I use the analogy of a bulldozer; rather than using the little tiny 10" wheels from a Morris Mini (which under a bulldozer would definitely deliver a lot of ground pressure), bulldozers have big long knobby tracks to distribute the vehicle's weight and provide more gripping edges to grab ahold of the terrain, whatever the surface may be. The same would apply to tires on a 4x4. But on the rounded rocks of the Rubicon, I think that the number of gripping edges on a microscopic level is more important than pounds per square inch. This would also be why a softer rubber compound provides better grip, as the rubber is able to conform into the microtexture of the rocks and hook up better. I have found that airing my tires way down provides incomparably more grip on the rocks than when aired up to street pressure. Look at dragsters; there's a reason why they use tall, wide, ultra-soft rubber tires inflated to such low pressures. Their sport is all about traction. So is ours.

Of course, the 2.8 inch difference in height (36.3 vs. 33.5 inches) of the 36x12.50-15's over my 33x14.50-15 SSRs gave the TSL Bias a longer footprint, putting more rubber onto the rocks. However, the 1.9 inches additional treadwidth (12.4 vs. 10.5 inches) of my SSRs more than made up for the loss in diameter in terms of the size of the footprint. I didn't think to do a scientific measurement of the actual size of the contact patches at the time, but obviously inflation pressure is a pretty significant variable. I will say that both vehicles were aired down to appropriate Rubicon pressures.

I don't know if the SSR's siping makes much of a difference in this situation, but I'll leave that open to your interpretation. In the end, I had just enough traction to idle up this slick rock face, whereas the 36's couldn't. Make of that what you may.

Of course, the wheelbase and weight of the vehicle on which tires are mounted is another very important factor that becomes a huge variable when comparing two vehicles like this. In this case, both were Samurai's. Regarding the construction of the tires, I would be more inclined to recommend the bias-ply TSL over the radial SSR on a 6000lb. vehicle, since that weight puts much more stress on the tread and sidewall of a tire than a 2500lb. Samurai ever could. Let's face it, the SSR is more prone to sidewall punctures than the TSL. However, it is my opinion that the strength of the SSR's sidewall much more than adequate for a light weight of a Samurai, and that the benefits of the radial construction outweigh those of the bias ply construction. Regardless of the SSR's comparison with the bias ply's, it's still a fact that the SSR's sidewall is extremely thick for a radial tire, and I have no reservation against claiming that the SSR's sidewall is tougher than that of standard radial mud tires, BFG, Yokohama, Dunlop, ProComp, and Goodyear for example.

Of course, opinions are like assholes; everyone has one, and they all stink. I'm not trying to tell anyone they're right or wrong here. There are compromises in everything, and different people put different value in different abilities, so the SSR or the bias TSL will never be perfect for everyone. That's why there are so many different choices of tires on the market. I'm just trying to outline the facts and explain my interpretation so that you can understand where my opinion comes from. If you choose to iterpret the facts differently, by all means, you are free to do so!

What it comes down to is that I'm very happy with the SSR's, and hopefully you now know why. I'm not just some opinionated jerkoff who's spouting off unfounded opinions on the tire; I'm an experienced tester who's forming conclusions based on facts. The point is to have fun out on the trail anyway, so it doesn't make sense to bicker about whose opinion is better. If people think my choice of SSR's makes me :rainbow: or makes my Zuk a show truck, that's fine. I'll see ya out on the trail, with my woman riding shotgun with me. :D

Thank you for replying to my humble question Zukiman .At no time did I expect such an in depth response .Unfortunately I will have to decline your kind offer of joining you on an outing ,as I am currently located in Australia .But I will say thank you, none the less for displaying such hospitality .
Your reply did provide me with many hours of enjoyable reading not to mention enligthenment .
As for dragsters using the tires they do :low pressure ,soft sidewall ,high aspect ratio .Do you think this might enable them to launch harder initially .What with the larger contact patch ,and lower aspect ratio .I suspect that as tire revolutions increase that the tires hieght would grow with the added advantage of also offering a smaller contact patch ,thus offering less resistance to forward momentum
From memory a fully dressed D9 Cat dozer wieghs in the region of 49-51 tons .To provide a tire for the aforementioned D9 that is capable of providing a realistic service life when taking into account its primary function in life would be difficult to say the least .The track "knobby" as you called it is referred to as a "grouse plate" .When working on ultra soft ground dozers are quite often fitted with what is reffered to as "swamp tracks" .No raised lips are offered on swamp tracks as they serve no purpose .If you were to look at how a dozer propels itself you would see that the part of the track in contact with the ground does not move in relation to the distance travelled by the said dozer .IE as the grouse plate makes contact with the ground it remains stationary whilst the dozer moves over it .If you ever get the chance to wittness a dozer trying to traverse a granite rock ,or any hard rock surface on an uphill approach then the words "not much traction" should come to mind .Steel tracks and hard rocks =bugger all traction . The fact that the tracks cannot mould to the rocks doesn't help either .A 998 wheel loader will out climb the dozer on a hard rock surface .
Do I care what tires you use ? Hell no .Do I care what your car looks like ? No .Are you having fun ,is the point that I care about .

Originally posted by fugly 2
Thank you for replying to my humble question Zukiman .At no time did I expect such an in depth response .Unfortunately I will have to decline your kind offer of joining you on an outing ,as I am currently located in Australia .But I will say thank you, none the less for displaying such hospitality .

...

Do I care what tires you use ? Hell no .Do I care what your car looks like ? No .Are you having fun ,is the point that I care about .
Fugly, I hope my post helped you out. I wasn't just replying to your questions but also to the other posts referring to how crappy the SSRs are reputed to be. But you're absolutely right, the whole point of 4-wheeling is go go out and have fun. If you can ever make it to :usa: Suzuki's on the Rocks is definitely an event to consider. Too bad you're so far away. :(

I ran into Tim Hardy on my last trip out to the Con, and asked him what he airs down to. He goes down to 2lb, on mags w/o beadlocks, and they squatted fine. He also said to run them w/o valves in the stems for a few miles on the street to soften them up. I only go down to 6lb, they don't squat, but I haven't had a traction issue yet.

i ran a set of 16x35's on my toy for 2 day's and ereturned them, they sucked! ran 33x14's on my zuk on the con last weekend, they sucked! my personal preference here is SX's, and i do own a set of MTR's because they are supposedly the best comp tire (and i was given them) so with that siad, i ran teh 33's @ 6psi and lost a bead before i got off the slab's @ loon, aired them up to 10psi and lost a bead in old sluice! 13psi and they stayed, and this zuk only weights 2200 lbs!

I ran my 37 boggs on 10" wide rims with 1-2 psi in them and never lost a bead, but I'm not as hardcore as all you guys:flipoff2: Although I do have a fair amount of tree limbs and bark stuck between the bead and the rim. My next tire will either be 38.5 sx's or 42" tsl's, unless they come out with a bogger in those sizes in the near future.

Originally posted by DSI
i ran a set of 16x35's on my toy for 2 day's and ereturned them, they sucked! ran 33x14's on my zuk on the con last weekend, they sucked! my personal preference here is SX's, and i do own a set of MTR's because they are supposedly the best comp tire (and i was given them) so with that siad, i ran teh 33's @ 6psi and lost a bead before i got off the slab's @ loon, aired them up to 10psi and lost a bead in old sluice! 13psi and they stayed, and this zuk only weights 2200 lbs!

how wide a rim, it makes a difference:flipoff2: I ran 16/35's on 8's at 2-3lbs no bead poip and they rok! I just traded for 38.5x11 boggers:flipoff2: :flipoff2: they are going on the 8's after I change them to 1" bs.................:D