OK, I've searched as much as I can, but I can't find anything that is TJ specific. My 4 banger has seen better days, and is actually now in a few pieces. I'm just wondering if anyone has swapped out a TJ engine anmd what they have put in it's place. I was thinking about an AMC 360 to keep it all Jeep, but after looking into parts costs, I decided that a Ford 5.0 (double my displacement) or a Chevy 305/350 would probably be about the same trouble as far as the initial swap would go, but less expensive when something goes wrong. Also, what can I do about the AX5 when I put in a Ford or Chevy V8. A Ford T18 or Chevy NP465 or NV4500 would be ok, since it won't see much street driving after all this.

Also, would it be as much trouble or more to get a little bit kustom and find a wrecked GC V8 and swap that in. Not sure about what tranny would go in behind it.

I'd kind of like to keep the 231 for now and put a 4:1 kit in and go Atlas in a few years when I recover from all this initial cost.

I know the D35 won't hold up, but there's more in store as far as the axles go.

OK, any good information is very much appreciated, so flame on boys.....

is smog legality an issue in the great state of Texas?

nah...not so much
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well, it may be, but I honestly haven't ever had someone open up my hood to even look at anything. The last time I got my Jeep inspected the guy got in to drive it around the block while the guy in the office was already filling out the sticker from the information on my insurance card...:D :D :D

Originally posted by BurrRabbit97
OK, I've searched as much as I can, but I can't find anything that is TJ specific. My 4 banger has seen better days, and is actually now in a few pieces. I'm just wondering if anyone has swapped out a TJ engine anmd what they have put in it's place. I was thinking about an AMC 360 to keep it all Jeep, but after looking into parts costs, I decided that a Ford 5.0 (double my displacement) or a Chevy 305/350 would probably be about the same trouble as far as the initial swap would go, but less expensive when something goes wrong. Also, what can I do about the AX5 when I put in a Ford or Chevy V8. A Ford T18 or Chevy NP465 or NV4500 would be ok, since it won't see much street driving after all this.

Also, would it be as much trouble or more to get a little bit kustom and find a wrecked GC V8 and swap that in. Not sure about what tranny would go in behind it.

I'd kind of like to keep the 231 for now and put a 4:1 kit in and go Atlas in a few years when I recover from all this initial cost.

I know the D35 won't hold up, but there's more in store as far as the axles go.

OK, any good information is very much appreciated, so flame on boys.....

Ease of use.. probably a TBI.. just less crap everywhere..

AX-5... Big paperweight..

For transmission.. what do you like.. do you like the low crawl or a overdrive..?? Is driveline length going to be an issue..

Do you like automatics?

Dont waste the money on the 231.. sell it as is.. recoup a little money and go atlas or for a little cheaper... flipped dana 300 with a 4-1 kit

Ultimatly.. go atlas, but figure out if your going to run a passenger side 60 or 44.. or a driverside..

the tranny behind a newer GC is a AW-4 4speed automatic i believe.. a very nice transmission.. its mated to the 4.7l v-8.. also another nice motor..

Its just really preference on what you want to spend and how much work you want to do

You should just have to pass a saftey inspection in Texas.

There are an infinite number of engine/tranny combinations. Since you mention both keeping and possibly ditching the AX5, it's hard to make any recommendations. So, I'll go on the assumption that you will keep the AX5:

You have a few engine options if you want to retain the AX5 tranny. You can swap in one of several Chevy V8 motors and get a full bellhousing from Advance Adapters (P/N 712565) to mate the AX5 / NP231 to the new engine. Advance Adapters also offers motor mounts and radiators to accommodate a Chevy V8 in a TJ. There are other fab shops that offer similar products, AA just the best one-stop-shop example I could think of.

As for Chevy engine choices, an LT1 swap works really well in a TJ. Of course, this all depends on your budget. You could also swap in a 4.0L if you don't have to have a V8. While you are doing all of this- do make to sure to swap out the D35 rear.

lots of bad info here:

the grand cherokees had AW-4 trannies behind some of the 4.0L and 42RH and 42RE behind other 4.0L. the 318 GC's had a the 42 RE. the new 4.7L GC's have the new 45RE.

DC has been having some problems with the 4.7L...i'd stay away from it

the AW-4 and 42's are fairly long trannies. you may have rear driveshaft length problems.

i'd look for a FI mustang or F-150 5.0L, and a T-18, and run an atlas or NP 231.

or, a FI chevy v-8, 4x4 chevy truck 4spd, NP 231

or, a Magnum 360, NV 4500, and Nv 241 hd out of a newer RAM

matt

I would lean towards ditching the NP231 (sell it) and get a D300. I think it would hold up alot better to a 5.0, especially if you can't go Atlas until later.

Originally posted by jeepnmatt
lots of bad info here:

the grand cherokees had AW-4 trannies behind some of the 4.0L and 42RH and 42RE behind other 4.0L. the 318 GC's had a the 42 RE. the new 4.7L GC's have the new 45RE.

DC has been having some problems with the 4.7L...i'd stay away from it

the AW-4 and 42's are fairly long trannies. you may have rear driveshaft length problems.

i'd look for a FI mustang or F-150 5.0L, and a T-18, and run an atlas or NP 231.

or, a FI chevy v-8, 4x4 chevy truck 4spd, NP 231

or, a Magnum 360, NV 4500, and Nv 241 hd out of a newer RAM

matt


Thanks for the info on GC engine/tranny combos. I figured there would be problems with swapping in anything Jeep-related now that I've dealt with mine for a few years.

The Mustang 5.0 HO would be ideal if I can find one. A truck would be great too. I think I may have a line on a Ford T18 for a hundred bucks or so, so that could be my starting point. Like I said, I want to keep the 231 for now unless I can find a D300 for cheap and do the flip kit. That will be a decision made after I find an engine and tranny, then I can think about what to do about my t-case.

If I happen to find a wrecked Dodge truck with a 5 speed and a V8, I would be quite happy with taking the drivetrain out and swapping it all in as is.

Thanks for the info so far, I'm sure there are more opinions out there, so keep it coming.....

I've been through a few ax-5's with a 4cyl and 31's.

Your wasting a lot of money if you hook one to a V8.
I know you didn't say you would, but just in case :)

I agree, you have to know what your gonna use it for first, and then go from there. A whole drivetrain from another vehicle would simplify things, and is a lot cheaper then getting into adapters.

David

ok, was doing some thinking over a few cold ones...

if I find a Ford T18 and get a Mustang 5.0, which vehicle would I need the bellhousing from? should I go ahead and get the truck bellhousing and try to get one with the engine or is there a specific one that I would have to find?

Also, does AA have the saddle style engine mounts for most any enigne?

Thanks for all the info....

You would need a truck bellhousing and flywheel if I"m not mistaken. I"m pretty sure any 5.0 you find out of a mustang would have had an auto behind it. Do a search theres lots of info out there on this site. Advance Adapters is also a great source of knowledge when it comes to engine and tranny swaps. Good luck

OK, so talking Ford swap...

I could, if I can find all the shit, get a Mustang engine (What year is best, and what kind of fuel injection did they have, I don't know much about them?) and bolt it to a truck bellhousing with a truck T18 and get an adapter or whatever for my t-case.

What wiring harness and computer would I use, the one out of the truck with the truck's computer, or the one out of the mustang? The reason I ask is that the Mustang comp would be prgrammed for an auto tranny, while the tranny I would have would be a manual. Also, how much of the harness would I need and how would it tie into the existing Jeep crap?

Just look at these links:
http://www.bc4x4.com/chrisw/projects/powertrain/powertrain.asp
http://www.bc4x4.com/tech/2002/np435d20/
http://www.angelfire.com/wi/mikeswwwsite/tranny.html
http://www.chadlloyd.rockcrawler.com/Tech/tranny.html

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=45309&highlight=totw+5.0

I am planning my own 5.0 HO swap. I'm planning on replacing the whole driveline. I've currently got a T18 & NP435 tranny (not sure which I'll use yet) and a dana 20 from an eb. Still looking for the right engine. I've got a dana 60 rear and my 44 front is in the works. My personal preference is to upgrade everything else before adding the high hp/torque into the equation.

Anyway, if I were you, I'd just look for a 4.0 since you haven't upgraded your axles, tranny or transfer case.

I'm ABSOLUTELY NOT going through the trouble of an engine swap to get another TJ engine with two more cylinders. Thanks for the websites though. If I do this, my engine/tranny/tcase are coming out first, then before I even order driveshafts, the axles will be taken care of. I don't like how DC built my Jeep, but it's what I have, so I plan to build it like they should have...:D

I put a TPI 355 chevy/sm465/np205/D60's combo into my tj last year. It's a lot of work and there was a lot of down time but after getting the bugs worked out I'm pretty happy with it. I started by clearing up the wireing harness only keeping the stuff I needed to run the electronics on the jeep and sending the old computer and wireing with the motor. Then just run a seperate harness for your new motor. Worked great and have no problems with it. You will need a new gage panel (I used auto meters I put into a panel in the stock location). With the Sm465 combo my shifter comes out directly under my dash where the old Air bag controler used to be so that took some creative bending. Lots of other details to think about too.
Does it wheel any better than it used too? Not really, actually the 60's hold me up a lot more than my old axles but I do feel a lot better about not breaking stuff when you need it to hold up.
Dave (Sounds a lot better too)

Originally posted by BurrRabbit97
If I do this, my engine/tranny/tcase are coming out first, then before I even order driveshafts, the axles will be taken care of.

Good luck to you. I don't have the time to completely swap out an engine, tranny, tc, and front and rear axles at the same time. You are more man than I. Better get the check book ready. :flipoff2:

Well, I have another vehicle to drive, and it'll be a slow change. I will probably take a couple months out of next summer to do it, but hopefully I can get it done without too much trouble.

I actually got my 4 cyl running again, so I may do the axles and suspension first (possibly over Christmas) and then wait to do the engine/tranny/t-case next summer.

if you are still looking to keep it all jeep (or even not) check www.car-parts.com for everything. I just looked under dodge 2500 5.9 and came up with a hit on a 98 ZJ 5.9 w/ trans (auto) and t-case for $1450 w/ only 28k miles.

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee Engine 5.9L,AT 4X4,28K $1450 02-76 Morrow Motors, Inc. 1-800-333-7202 E-mail USA-NC

not sure about shipping though.

I went with a 318 out of a GC and a NV3500 from a V8 dakotta. All of that bolts up to an AltasII turning some high pinion D60's. It works out well...and for the most part I can say it still has a lot of Jeep in it. :D

Originally posted by BurrRabbit97
OK, so talking Ford swap...

What wiring harness and computer would I use, the one out of the truck with the truck's computer, or the one out of the mustang? The reason I ask is that the Mustang comp would be prgrammed for an auto tranny, while the tranny I would have would be a manual. Also, how much of the harness would I need and how would it tie into the existing Jeep crap?

Why not take a little time and look for a 5.0 that had a 5spd? I had a 93 GT with a 5spd. Also I know that a good # of the 5.0 LX had the 5 spd... This way it would be a Mustang comp programed for a manual. I know there out there. Mine ended up in a junk yard.... The kid I sold it to rolled it. The kid was fine the car was a total loss.:(

Just MHO

What 5 spd came in Mustangs with the 5.0? I didn't know that they were very common.

I cant remember off hand. It is true that there were a bunch with auto but I know that there were quite a few with the 5spd. I'll look at my old records tonight and see if I have it listed.

Fat Bob

Keeping it "all Jeep" means you can use any Chevy, Ford, Dodge, Buick, Kaiser, Willy's....anyway, screw the Jeep motors, keep your functional AX-5 until you break it, then upgrade, screw anything made by Advance Adapters, find stuff that will bolt up.

The Jeep 2.5 has the same bellhousing pattern as the GM 60 degree V6's, I'd look for a 3800 V6 out of any front wheel drive GM car made in the last decade, you should be able to close your eyes and walk in one direction for no more that 30 feet before you trip over or get hit by one. They were available with all kinds of goodies, Turbo's Superchargers, etc. If you're really brave, try a Cadillac 32V Northstar V8, also a bolt up, and 300hp and about the same weight as a Jeep 4.0L, but the AX really won't like that option. If you keep the AX-5 and work in stages, your next step would be a stout trans, the 60 degree bellhousing is available in the 700R4, which you could use an S-10 NP231 and keep it all factory stuff , no adapters=cheap. Or you could use a 2.8 V6 Bellhousing with an SM420 (7.05 first) and a Novak (remember, no AA) adapter to your NP231. Of course your Dana 35 will puke, resist the chants of this board to go 60, 60, 60, 60, unless you're looking at 38's and up, I'd look for an Explorer 8.8, or Early Bronco 9", maybe a ZJ Dana 44 (I'm not sure but those may be aluminium)

Oh yeah, Mustangs had T5's and WC T5's, not a bad option, but not the best low gearing. I think you could mix and match Mustang T5 or WC T5 parts with GM S-10 T5 parts to have an all-factory Ford302/FordT5/GMNP231 combo. For that matter, you might be able to use a Jeep T4 and Mustang T5 parts to bolt up a Dana 300.

I swapped my AOD out for a T-5 in my '87 Mustang. Didn't touch the computer, and it works fine with the stick. Lots of 5.0 mustangs have the T-5 so it shouldn't be a problem to find one anyway. On the years, '87 and 49 state '88 cars are Speed density and use a MAP sensor rather than a MAF. That should help in the swap department since you can just stick a filter on the throttle body. '87 - '92 have forged pistons stock. '93-'95 have hypereutectic pistons which aren't bad, just not as good. Avoid '86 engines, they aren't as powerful and have weird heads/pistons. Pre '85 engines are carbed (except for '84 and '85 AOD cars which have TBI).

On your other questions, the wiring harness has to go with the engine. 5.0L trucks are very different from 5.0 Mustangs. The bellhousing has to match both engine and transmission. The only ones that match both the T-18 and the 5.0 are going to be truck bellhousings. 300 6, 302 V8 and 351 V8 all have the same bellhousing pattern, so a T-18 bell for any of those engines would work. Also be sure to get a flywheel with the correct balance for you engine. Older 302s are a different balance than newer ones. I think the cutoff year is 1980.

Originally posted by Grandpa Jeep
Avoid '86 engines, they aren't as powerful and have weird heads/pistons. Pre '85 engines are carbed (except for '84 and '85 AOD cars which have TBI).

5.0L trucks are very different from 5.0 Mustangs.



whats wrong with 86 EFI 5.0's??? thats what i has in my truck when i first bought it....:flipoff2:

it now has a 88(i think) mustang 5.0 in it. the wiring harness was the same.

whats wrong with 86 EFI 5.0's??? thats what i has in my truck when i first bought it....

First of all, they have funky "swirl port" heads which don't breathe as well as either the '85 heads or the '87 up heads. The pistons don't have valve reliefs, so you can't just swap later heads on. The throttle body is also 55mm vs. 60mm for the later ones. All that adds up to a rating of 200 HP vs 225 HP for '87-'92. Other than that they're the same.:flipoff2:

edit: I just realized you are talking about truck 5.0s. There's no significant difference from '85 up until they stopped putting them in that I'm aware of, although I'm not as familier with them. The Mustang 5.0s have the above differences from year to year. Mustang 5.0s are different also in that they have roller cams, forged or hypereutectic pistons, shorty headers, and SEFI vs. bank fired for trucks and other non HO 5.0s.

Originally posted by Grandpa Jeep


First of all, they have funky "swirl port" heads which don't breathe as well as either the '85 heads or the '87 up heads. The pistons don't have valve reliefs, so you can't just swap later heads on. The throttle body is also 55mm vs. 60mm for the later ones. All that adds up to a rating of 200 HP vs 225 HP for '87-'92. Other than that they're the same.:flipoff2:



my pistons do have valve reliefs in them....






shiat....i now see where you edited it...