I just got a wrecked 88 3.0 V-6 with 29K original on it. My 87 22RE threw a rod and I was wondering how hard it would be to swap the 3.0 into my 87 22RE. Would I just have to change the motor mounts, computer, drive lines, and tranny and case? Would I have to also replace the wireing harness? I know the 3.0's are crappy motors but I got this truck for cheap so it wouldn't cost me much. Thanks

dont put that POS in your truck, if you want a V6 go with a 3.4l from a tacoma, from what im told it has the same motor mounts as the 3.0 V6 and the same bell housing pattern as the 3.0. but if you want yes you are going to have to change the wiring harness bell housing and the perches should be the same between the two so yes you are going to have to change the mounts tho.

yep, doable like the man said

Thought I'd throw my 2cents in about the V6

Yes it may be a "POS" dog for a V6 but headers and exhaust do wake that 3.0 right up. Dog V6 or not it will run circles around a 22RE all day. Dont get me wrong...I've loved my 22R's but horsepower is horsepower and 3VZE has got more of it period.

You gotta huffed 4banger and a paid for V6 donor truck, sounds like an easy choice to me. Good luck with the swap. Peace

One word HEAD GASKET!!! :(

Originally posted by techierob
One word HEAD GASKET!!! :( Well you wrote it as two words and I have not had a problem since Toyota changed mine 4 1/2 years ago. But they are a bitch to work on!!!:D

Go for it, if it was me, I'd swap in a 5.0 or a 4.3..... but my 3.0 will work any 22re over any day, even with 200k + miles on it, I think it's a rare occurence though, burns no oil, has tons of power and I can lug it down to about 150 rpm on steep climbs.

Is the tranny an auto? If so I just thought you should know that there isn't any way to do gear reduction! All and all my 3.0 V6 has been a very good motor with plenty of power for what I use it for. My truck will tow a ski boat, and there's know way a truck with a 22re would keep up!

The hardest part is getting the wiring harness figured out. I know a guy who did that swap, and can give ya his email if you want.

I have the 3.0 V6 in my 89, and it works pretty good. A lot better than any toy 4cyl. It has headers, straight exhaust with turn down, and I made an adapter to fit a ricer style cone intake. I used to take it to the races and take out the Hondas, but I fried my clutch pretty bad, so no more.

Like old man oops says, they are a bitch to work on. Took 4 days in a big shop with in ground pit and more snap-on and craftsman tools than you could ask for with a Toyota employed techy to change out the clutch.http://www.pirate4x4.com/ubb/icons/icon13.gif

Originally posted by Im4yotas
The hardest part is getting the wiring harness figured out. I know a guy who did that swap, and can give ya his email if you want.

I have the 3.0 V6 in my 89, and it works pretty good. A lot better than any toy 4cyl. It has headers, straight exhaust with turn down, and I made an adapter to fit a ricer style cone intake. I used to take it to the races and take out the Hondas, but I fried my clutch pretty bad, so no more.

Like old man oops says, they are a bitch to work on. Took 4 days in a big shop with in ground pit and more snap-on and craftsman tools than you could ask for with a Toyota employed techy to change out the clutch.http://www.pirate4x4.com/ubb/icons/icon13.gif

marlin did the clutch on my brothers 3.0 v6 in about 4 hours, while answering the phone every 5 minutes:flipoff2: :flipoff2:

get ready for all the stupid ass's to tell you how much of a piece of shit the 3.0 is...

does a 22RE have more power? no

will a 3.0 smoke a 22RE anyday? yes

180,000 miles with original head gasket...

SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!

A shitload of work for minimal improvements.
22re: 116hp bone stock
3vze: 150"""

I've had both and prefer 22re's. Not that a Vortech V6 wouldn't be sweet..................

i had a 92 pickup with the 3VZE and I loved that truck. It had tons more power than the 22re that I'm running now. It too had around 180,000 miles on it and no HG problems at all. It never even broke down once on me, sold it to my dad about a year ago and it's still running strong. I do find it much easier to work on my 22re though, but I'm still trying to figure out why it would take 4 days to replace a clutch in a 3.0:confused:

Like old man oops says, they are a bitch to work on. Took 4 days in a big shop with in ground pit and more snap-on and craftsman tools than you could ask for with a Toyota employed techy to change out the clutch.

uhhh, when I was back in highschool, I changed the clutch out in my '91 3.0 in about 6 hours, wouldn't have taken that long a previous owner hadn't put a standerd bolt back in and striped out the threads on the crossmember.

I don't have many complaints about my '91, when it had 202,000 miles it finally burned a valve, which I was going to fix, until a slight wiring mistake shorted out alot of the engine wireing harness:nuke:, but it was human error:rolleyes:, so it got traded in, not long after....wish I had it back though, it was a great truck.

Justin

A shitload of work for minimal improvements.
22re: 116hp bone stock
3vze: 150"""


3vze: 150 hp
4.3 chevy: 190 hp

"A shitload of work for minimal improvements."

Especially when this guy already has the 3.0 sitting there.

After talking to multiple machine shops and other toyota people I am just gonna rebuild the 22RE. I was told by three different machine shops that either they blow headgaskets or the # 6 cylinder burns a valve or goes bad. They all said to sell the 3.0 and rebuild the 22RE. Plus they said the 3.0 with 29K original is worth like $1000-1500 so that will cover my rebuild. I now have a W56 tranny that has bearing wind and a gear driven t-case all from a 87 Yota with 200K on it for sale, plus the 3.0. Thanks to everyone for the help.

I'd take the 22RE anyday over the 3.0. Less weight, you can pull about the same power as the 3.0 with some mods, and you already have one.

My 22R hybrid would blow away my sisters runner with a 3.0 in it with no problem at all. And I had less then $700 in a totally rebuilt and moded motor. She is stock and i'm on 35's and regeared.

Originally posted by Chad
My 22R hybrid would blow away my sisters runner with a 3.0 in it with no problem at all.

yeah, but it looks like you have a pickup. Compare a 3.0 'runner with a 3.0 pickup, or a 22r 'runner with a 22r pickup, and the pickup will burn the 'runner every time. My stock '85 4runner feels about the same powerwise to my '93 4runner with the V6, it has a lot to do with weight. I had a '92 3.0 pickup that had great power, but my '93 4runner feels like a dog in comparison. It is possible that one engine may be in better condition than the other, but it is just my experience that the 3vze has a significant power advantage to the 22re, not just where horsepower is concerned, but in torque as well. I think that stock, my 3.0 crawled better than my 22re, and it had a lot to do with low end torque. Just my .02. Good luck with your final decision.;)

Originally posted by Im4yotas
Like old man oops says, they are a bitch to work on. Took 4 days in a big shop with in ground pit and more snap-on and craftsman tools than you could ask for with a Toyota employed techy to change out the clutch.

Geez!!! I woudn't be so proud to admit that! I did a clutch in a 3.0 about 2 months ago in 4 hours. What were they doing... working with their eyes closed?

That being said, I've had both motors, the 3.0 is OK, but I've pulled one (twice) and they are a BITCH to work on. I hope I never own one again.

A tweaked 22RE could take a 3.0L in the same truck. And a 22RTE? Fugedaboudit... the V6 wouldn't stand a chance.

A tweaked 22RE could take a 3.0L in the same truck.

Damn are you serious???? A modified 22RE could be a stock 3.0!!!! No way!!! :rolleyes:

In comparison to the dude with 700 dollars in his hybrid 22R that could smoke a stock 3.0...whoop-de-fucking-do put 700 dollars in a 3.0 and it will spank your hybrid 22R. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Hobsdaddy


In comparison to the dude with 700 dollars in his hybrid 22R that could smoke a stock 3.0...whoop-de-fucking-do put 700 dollars in a 3.0 and it will spank your hybrid 22R. :rolleyes:


OK...what can you buy or do to a 3.0 with $700 to get a substantial power increase? I'm curious......

Originally posted by Chad
OK...what can you buy or do to a 3.0 with $700 to get a substantial power increase? I'm curious......

Yank it out, sell it, and drop in a Buick 4.3... :D :D

build a intake for about 70 bucks, get exhaust with no cat for what I paid with flowmaster for 80 bucks, headers for 300, bored intake for 250, thats 700 bucks for about a 20 hp increase. 170 hp 3.0 should take a hybrid 22R I think...

Would I do it?? hell no!!! just making a argument.

Anyways this site is for rockcrawling not racing and torque is a major roll.

My 3.0 with 4.10's and 35 inch tires crawls just as good as my buddies 5.29'ed 22RE with 35's.

I work for Toyota. I work on these motors all the time. In my opinion anyone thinking of putting a 3.0 in place of a 22re is, well...not thinking. The 3.0 is easily one of the worst motors Toyota has ever produced. As soon as you do that swap the warranty on your HG will go out the window, and trust me I have seen them go multiple times. The most I have ever heard of was 4 times, unbeleivable.

The 3.0 sucks an astronomical amount of fuel compared to it's horsepower. Much more than the 22re fuel to horsepower ratio.

The 22re is bulletproof.

The 3.0 is bulletproof (overlooking HG) however MUCH harder to work on.

Weight to power ratio is huge compared to the 22re.

Aftermarket parts? Eat my ass, and that ass eats like a meal. Headers do not wake this thing up, it just makes it sort of drowsy. There is next to no aftermarket parts available and what are available are incredibly expensive. In the end it doesn't really matter what you do to this motor it will never be a rocket without thousands and thousands of dollars.

Have you ever thought of a supra I6 motor? Now there is an awesome motor

Who gives a rats ass if someone can redo a clutch in 4 hours. My truck is way different than any you've ever worked on. I crushed the t-case crossmember so bad, it's shaped almost like an "M." It took one night just to get all those bolts lined back up. I also have custom one-off headers that hug the block and tranny very tightly cuz their isn't any extra room in the engine bay. They were to hard to work around, and after a couple hours of trying, we decided to take them off. (During those couple hours we had to switch off on holding up the tranny and t-case since we were in the pit.) Hah! Could only get to half the nuts holding em on. Time to go shopping at Sears.
Got back and drank a few beers, pulled the headers, and it was midnight. My buddy from Toyota had about a 2 hour drive to go home so we called it a night. (He also got off work around 6, so he went home, changed and drove 2 hours to come help me, and then drove another 2 hours back home each day.)
The next night, we dropped the tranny completely out and onto a couple jacks and pulled the flywheel. Easy. Called it a night since the next step was to get the flywheel resurfaced the next day.
Got the flywheel resurfaced, and put everything together that night. But we couldn't get the tranny to match up to the engine anymore. It would get about an inch and a half away on all sides, and not move forward. Couldn't see anything in the way, so we moved it around, shook it and pushed it for about 3 horurs until we could finally get one bolt threaded (spitting and cursing the whole time). Then we were able to get a few more threaded on, and it was late and we called it a night.
The next night we got all the bolts from tranny to the engine, and worked most of the time getting the crossmember back up, then the shafts and everything else.

I think somebody with a lot more experience under the same time time constraints could have pulled it off with my truck in 3 days, maybe 2.

Anyways,
A stock 3.0 has ~160hp and 130 or 140ft lbs of torque. Mine performs a lot better with a few low buck mods. The headers of course, and straight exhaust (no bends after collector, turns down in front of axle), and cone filter intake. The filter cost $30, and I made an adapter from that to the AFM with about $5 worth of steel. This isn't a good idea for a frequent mudder or water hound.

I'm curious about a cam, though. I think if I have to rebuild it, I'll go for a better cam. Either that or et rid of it and buy a 3.4:flipoff2:

Originally posted by Im4yotas
A stock 3.0 has ~160hp and 130 or 140ft lbs of torque.

The 22R-E makes 140 ft. lbs @ 2800 rpms. The V6 makes 151 ft. lbs @ 1200 rpms, 170 ft. lbs @ 2000 rpms and 180 ft. lbs @3200 rpms.

It may be nothing to write home about, but it still makes more torque at 1200 rpms than the 22R-E will ever make at any rpm.

Here is the supporting power/torque graph (http://home.off-road.com/~kemanuel/temp/V6graph.jpg).

If you have a 3-liter sitting around--use it! If not, a 3.4 would be the wise choice.

3.0 V6s They really suck, they only last 200k and the one problem early one had the dealers fix for free.
What engines last longer? mercedes? diesels? 4.3:rolleyes:

Originally posted by paddlenbike


The 22R-E makes 140 ft. lbs @ 2800 rpms. The V6 makes 151 ft. lbs @ 1200 rpms, 170 ft. lbs @ 2000 rpms and 180 ft. lbs @3200 rpms.

It may be nothing to write home about, but it still makes more torque at 1200 rpms than the 22R-E will ever make at any rpm.

Here is the supporting power/torque graph (http://home.off-road.com/~kemanuel/temp/V6graph.jpg).

If you have a 3-liter sitting around--use it! If not, a 3.4 would be the wise choice.


OK, so I may have been a little off. I got my figures from Haynes or Chiltons, but I may have just forgoten. Whatever.

What I'm really interested in is the turbified 3.0 graph. (http://home.off-road.com/~kemanuel/temp/turbograph.jpg) Any idea where it's from and how much $$?


What's up Sean? How was Pismo without the frontend? You gonna make John Bull in BigBear?

Originally posted by Im4yotas
[B]

What I'm really interested in is the turbified 3.0 graph. (http://home.off-road.com/~kemanuel/temp/turbograph.jpg) Any idea where it's from and how much $$?

That graph is for the stock turbo 22R-E (22R-TE.)

Ah, I see. So do you have any info on this?
http://home.off-road.com/~kemanuel/temp/3vzeturbo_2.jpg

Originally posted by Im4yotas
Ah, I see. So do you have any info on this?

Ah, you must have pulled that off the temp directory of my webpage. Clifton on this board built that. Look him up on POR. I'm sure he'd love to tell you about it.

I love my hybrid but it's just not enough. That's why I'm getting ready to start my '98 Vortec 4.3/ Th700R4 conversion!!!!! Yeeehaaa:D

I have put the 3.0 V6 into 85-87 4 runners twice now. Had to fabricate motor mounts and ding the firewall in one spot because of the exhaust crossover. As to the wiring harness we took the whole damn thing out of an 88 and used it including the two parts that run down the left and right sides of the body. that and using the FI gas tank from an 88 and everything worked just fine. In our case we had to mess with the rear crossmember a little but thats what the welder, drillpress, etc. is for.

As far as changing the clutch. 4 hours tops laying on the garage floor with about 4 sockets, a couple of swivel sockets and a good assortment of extensions (long ones), a couple of box wrenches a good 3/8 impact and a good floor jack. And that leaves you time for a few beers inbetween when you realize how much the whole transmission/xfer case assembly weighs.

update: noticed he lets the cat out of the bag. custom headers, bent to crap cressmember, yada, yada and that is why it took all that time to change the clutch. I'll give him the extra time (50% of it) but you have to ask the question why build something that you can't maintain easily. And 3 hours to slip the tranny back in? there are only about 2 things that prevent it from going in (clutch plate not centered, missing the hole in the pilot bearing because the tranny is not straight). Replace the two top transmission bolts with ones that are about 5 inches long (cut the heads off and slot the ends) and use them to guide the transmission. It also holds most of the weight .

Originally posted by Heywood
3.0 V6s They really suck, they only last 200k and the one problem early one had the dealers fix for free.
What engines last longer? mercedes? diesels? 4.3:rolleyes:


I don't know where your getting your info from but I regularly see 3.0's with 400,000 km's on them. They are bullet proof once you get the HG worked out. Maybe you should have tried changing the oil.
:flipoff2:

Originally posted by 4-runnin



I don't know where your getting your info from but I regularly see 3.0's with 400,000 km's on them. They are bullet proof once you get the HG worked out. Maybe you should have tried changing the oil.
:flipoff2:


HELLO! He's being sarcastic. He has the 3.0 in his truck, running strong around 200,000 miles and it'll still keep going:flipoff2: And I have around 195,000 miles on mine.


Originally posted by Just-fabricate-it
Blah blah blah...
Blah blah blah...I'll give him the extra time (50% of it) but you have to ask the question why build something that you can't maintain easily
Blah blah blah...



That's the whole reason I said that. To make a point on how much of a pain they can be to work on compared to say a 22 series. I figured I wouldn't bore everyone with all the problems, but obviously some people don't understand unless you hold their hand and walk them through everything:flipoff2:

3.0 V6s They really suck, they only last 200k and the one problem early one had the dealers fix for free.

Yeah right... My brother's has 237,000:flipoff2: and no HG problems at all.

According to Toyota the '88 3.0 didn't have the bogus head gasket. That came when they tried to use a non-asbestos version I believe. Besides, if it's out of the truck, as in during a swap, how hard would it be to do the HG then? Pretty simple I think.
Of course, what do I know- my V6 is running like shiat and needs to be replaced. I'm thinking used Jap engine.

Originally posted by techierob
One word HEAD GASKET!!! :( That's two words and I have five years of HARD wheeling and no Headgasket problems.:D

I've had ample experience with both. The bitches I have with the 3vz-fe is high maintenance:
1) Water pumps leak religously every 60k
2) Upper Idler bearings have no longevity
3) T-belt tensioner bearings have no longevity
4) Vacuum lines on upper plenum are a PITA and crack regularly
5) Fuel pulsation dampener screw falls out over speed bumps
6) Plenum ultra sensative to air leaks causing drivability problems
7) Connectors on injectors break if looked at wrong
8) Early 3vz did have major valve problems
9) Knock sensor wires are known to be problematic
10) Head gaskets concerns are a given, why else would they give you torque specs to the head on the valve cover?

More power? Not much at all, but yes. Worth the extra trouble and unreliability? Hell no. Good luck with the rebuild of the 22re.;)

If you got the engine throw that bad boy right in. Just watch out for the head gasket and u should be fine. I think the 3.0 is an okay engine and way better then everyone makes it out to be.