Coyote, was it you that said I should run my tranny fluid through a separate cooler and THEN run it through the radiator cooler and then go to back to the tranny?

I just got the additional cooler today....the radiator cooler is not cutting it. I had the computer programed to kick the Electric fan on at 150* and that helped some, but the tranny is still getting to 240-250*.

So, should I run it through the tranny cooler in the grill only or should I do the new cooler and THEN hit the built in radiator cooler?

If I run it through the radiator, it is going to be at least 220*, because that is what my engine runs at...200-220*.....

Grog the only reason to route thru the radiator after the cooler is if you think of wheeling in the really cold winter, too cold fluid is hard on slushbox's, doubt if that is a concern for us here.....
heck if you ever did decide to wheel it in that cold weather dis able the fan on it or block the airflow.
Butch

I think the theory is that you should run it through the secondary cooler first and then the radiator so the temp is regulated somewhat by the thermostat but i dont see how trany fulid could bee cooled to much. so i dont think it would hurt anything either way you do it.

Yep that was me, my tranny builder insists that when its too cold, say under 120 or about 220 its not good. I would agree with Texican that in Texas for about 9 months out of the year it wouldn't be necessary. If your engine is at 220 your radiator is probably a bit less and I wouldn't want my tranny that hot. On my Cruiser I just push it through a 22k GVWR cooler mounted near the radiator to radiate heat to the cooler to regulate the temperature....your running a 4L60 and a 350 and it runs at 220? Dang they run those new engines hot to get past emmissions....

Originally posted by coyote
your running a 4L60 and a 350 and it runs at 220? Dang they run those new engines hot to get past emmissions....

The cop LT-1 engines run about 240* since they run all of the time!

As for the tranny cooler...you think since I am in Texas, run this new tranny cooler I bought in front of the radiator.....and then directly back to the transmission...skipping the radiator altogether.

If that is the case, giddy up!!

Finally, since this tranny has hit temps up to 250*, should I change the fluid?

I have only driven it 50 miles total.

I am a compulsive fluid changer, so I won't run it too long anyway.

Are you running synthetic fluid? if yes then its probably ok if std dexronIII then swap it out....

Hey Nolan,
Where is your trans temp gauge located? (pan, line to coolers, line back to trans?)

My sender is in the return line from the cooler.

The reason I would run to the aux cooler and then to the rad cooler is that the aux cooler gives the fluid an initial cool down, then the cooler in the rad finishes the job. The trans cooler in the radiator is on the cold side of the radiator so it is not at engine temp. I don't like dumping 220 deg trans oil into the cooler on the rad as it heats up the water I try so hard to cool down.

Originally posted by yoda

My sender is in the reurn line from the cooler.



Mine too. I am going to run both and see today...it is damn hot out there....

here's my $.02 worth.(and it's based on being a service manager at a very busy tranny shop for 5 years+).:flipoff2:

first of all! why would anybody run synthetic fluid???:confused: the stuff is pretty expensive and should not be blended with regular fluid. that translates to: save your money and spend it on something else more useful. if you develop a nasty leak on the trail you have to make sure that you carry enough fluid to cover you. if you run dextron/mercon4 (recommended for a 4L60E), then you can use pretty much any fluid to get you home; blending will not be a problem between manufacurers.
i have yet to see definete signs of tranny failure due to the fluid failing; and that's one of the biggest claim for synthetics: no viscocity failure untill much higher temps than regular fluid. if your tranny gets hot enough for the fluid to fail, you got bigger problems already!
next: coolers!
do to the fact that engines produce the most power and burn the cleanest at higher temps, the radiator in your rig will be running a tad higher than with a "stock" V8.
if you're concerned about the trans fluid temp, you should run it thru the rad first to bring it down to 220degs and then thru the cooler to bring it down even lower. having it run the other way does nothing for you except for the fluid having to travel farther and encountering more resistance due to the amount of line and passages it has to go thru. if the fluid were to run thru the aux. cooler first, it would drop in temp by quite a bit, probably right around rad temp. running it thru tha rad after that does absolutely nothing for you.
i would also suggest to put the temp probe in the trans pan and not the return line. putting the temp sensor in the return line tells you diddly squat! who cares what the temp is coming out of the cooler? you need to know what temp the trans is running at and the fluid in the pan should be a good indicator for that. remember that the converter is the hottest part of the trans unless it's in lock-up mode; which will not happen when you're wheeling unless you guys in texas have a very different approach to wheeling than we do?!:flipoff2:
that translatesto the engine staying relatively cool while crawling thru the rocks and creeping alond some trail, while the converter is taking all the abuse and therefore the trans gets hot. let the rad bring the fluid temp down and then the aux. cooler will "chill" it a little more.
last comment: buy a decent cooler!!!!! remember, you get what you pay for . the old fin and tube design is super out-dated and not very efficient. the newer style coolers (twisted tube design with multiple passes as in more than 20) are much more efficient and compact. if you can't find em, call me at work. we sell them at distributor prices. georg 800-991-0117
nuf for now!

PS: nolen, dig the write up of kate in trails, even though it's pretty much outdated now!

Good stuff Georg,

I tried it the way mentioned above...cooler then to the radiator and it sucks.....a little cooler than before, 230*, but it really makes more sence the way Georg says....

I will reverse them and see if my tranny cooler will hold up.....

I think I bought a cheapo though, i went to NAPA and got one for $65....said it was monster rated on the box, but it is loops and fins.

Tell you what Georg, I will reverse this gig and see what it gives me. What temp should I be shooting for?

Finally, that article on Kate was part 1...part 2 is coming....

you should end up somewhere around 200degs.

the other thing that really sucks about tube and fin coolers is their size. too damn big! the twisted tube style is much more compact and allows more air to get to the rad!:D

Originally posted by orangefj45
you should end up somewhere around 200degs.

the other thing that really sucks about tube and fin coolers is their size. too damn big! the twisted tube style is much more compact and allows more air to get to the rad!:D

Does Summit sell twisted tube style coolers?

Anyone have a pic of a twisted tube type so we know what we are talking about??

I can find the "tube and fin" style and a "stacked plate" style.

this is the cooler I used: http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/cooler1.htm

they by far have the best price on the 11"X11"X1.5" (TRU-H7B) cooler. so far it has kept my 700r4 cool (about 150-180*) thru-out the whole summer (110*+). The only time it rose to about 210* was stuck in stop & go traffic for about 30 minuites. I believe if I got off my lazy butt & built a shroud for the rad. I would be able to keep it cooler. I'm running mine straight (no radiator cooler) b/c my engine runs up to 240* w/o a shroud after 30 minuites of traffic & that would deffinately overheat my tranny.

I forget where I read it (maybe on the TRU-COOL website) but they say that the dimpled plate style coolers don't start cooling until the fluid is up to temperature which lower the viscosity & allows the fluid to pass thru the dimples & be cooled otherwise the fluid by passes the "cooling" area of the cooler. this seems to hold true b/c the tranny heats up to like 130* after a few minuites of driving then ussually stabilizes around 160*-170*.

I think OrangeFJ45 is refering to these style coolers when he says "twisted tube style"

FWIW, I've done some playing with the cooler(s) on my motorhome...460 carbed with a C6, 18k# loaded....this after a trip to Tellico left me needing a tranny rebuild....

I did see some difference in the tranny pan temps when running the fluid thru the radiator first then into the cooler. I currently run the fluid to the radiator, then thru two stock-style Ford coolers. Temps in the pan never exceed 210, even pulling those LONG Pennsylvania hills or working thru Chicago traffic at 100 degrees. Normal driving it runs in the 180-200 range with the pan sensor. System takes about 12 quarts.

A single new quality cooler would probably work as well or better, but I used what I had laying around the garage. I do change the pan fluid about every 5000 miles, which gives me 4 quarts or so of fresh fluid.

yep, i'm talking about the tru-cool lpd. coolers. i'd post a pic but my computer has been under the impression that it does not have an "a" drive for the past 2 weeks so i can't post any pics right now.
tru-cool lpd coolers are made by long manufacturing ltd. and can be bought thru summit or jegs racing, or you can call me at work.
i can sell them direct to anybody (and i'm not trying to post a comercial ad here, just trying to help a couple of buddies out).

summit sells them under the B&M brand name. i'm not a big fan of B&M products, especially their converters (crap), but that's neither here nor there.


B&M
BMM-107104 GM: TH700/4L60 Traveler 4WD transmission Transmission Traveler Series TH-700/4L60 4WD $1,659.00 ²
BMM-70255 16,000 GVW, 11 in. x 5 3/4 in. x 3/4 in., transmission cooler ... $42.95
BMM-70264 24,000 GVW, 11 in. x 6 in. x 1 1/2 in., transmission cooler Trans Cooler Kit 11``X 6``X 1-1/2`` 24,000 GVW $49.95
BMM-70265 15,000 GVW, 11 in. x 4 1/2 in. x 1 1/2 in., Street Rod, transmission cooler ... $45.95
BMM-70266 28,000 lb. GVW, 11 in. x 8 in. x 1 1/2 in., transmission cooler ... $59.95
BMM-70268 19,000 GVW, 11 in. x 7 1/2 in. x 3/4 in. transmission cooler ... $45.95
BMM-80278 Transmission cooler mounting kit Cooler Mounting Kit $9.95

OK, moving to just the cooler helped...bypassing the radiator cooler really kept the tranny cool for a long time.

When I got on the highway, things heated up again though :(

230* and rising before I pulled over after 15 miles or so.

When I pulled over the engine cooled off nicely and did not heat up over 220* in stop and go traffic.

Seems the truck hates the highway.

Crap.

I ordered 2 of these COOLERS (http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/cooler1.htm ) , one small one for my P/S (it seems to be struggling now too) and the mongo 11 x 11 for the transmission.

Hopefully these two will allow more air to the radiator at speed too to help cool the engine.

I sure would like to keep my inner fenders.....

Any other engine cooling ideas? This LT-1 is supposed to run hot, but I would like to keep it under 230*

Nolen -

You are on the right track with the 'stacked plate' style of coolers. On Cruisers though since sq/in of flow at the front is a premium, especially w/an auto, I have seen the stacked plate style mounted up under the body. Summit sells a dandy one that has its own fan.

They also make some frame rail coolers that shed head by using the frame as a heat sink.

As for the PS, a smaller cooler will help a lot. The most stress on a 4x steering system is ironically a LS. I baked a couple of pumps when I used to run an Auburn - a 4 x 12 tube & fin cooler took care of it. The extra fluid helps a lot.


Good luck - you have a big thermal load....

Jim

Nolen,
I forgot what radiator you are running but I have a 31"X19" Howe & it has no problem keeping my TBI350 cool in weather up to 115* (w/ a/c) . I'm running the HD fan clutch w/ the stock 19" steel fan & no shroud. I'm also running a 160* thermostat (I'm going back to a 195* soon) but the motor runs at about 210* (where the fan clutch cycles) on the freeway in 110*+ weather w/ a/c on.

Do you have the space between the rad & the bib blocked so it forces air thru the rad not around it? make sure your entire cooling system is burped. what kind of fan are you running? you could also try putting in a racing plug instead of a thermostat or drill holse in the lip of your thermostat to increase flow. You probably don't have to get rid of your inner fenders if you have a couple inches between your frame & your manifold/headers. at freeway speeds there should be more than enough air coming thru to force it out of the compartment, you just have to make sure that most of the air coming in is forced thru the radiator.

Could you point me to some pics of your engine compartment?

I have a Be Cool aluminum model sold "nameless" by Man-a-Fre.

The fan is a 2800cfm Black Magic (LT-1's don't have mechanical fans)

I do have a M10000 winch and 2 Hella 500's up front that may be diverting the air....the lights I can lose, the winch, I cannot.

I have plenty of room in the back of the engine by the manifold to lose the heat, so i don't think losing the inner fenders will help.

I will see how she acts with the new coolers and keep you posted.

yup, i forgot no fan on an lt1 :rolleyes: that radiator must have set you back quite a bit :eek: I think the black magic may be your problem. go w/ a lincoln mark V fan or the same fan that comes out of cammaro's etc... w/ LT1's. I've got an 8274 blocking my grill & it made no difference in cooling. (fj60's have a little bigger opening though) I've never had much success w/ black magics but from what I hear the lincoln fan is the :nuke: . Relocating the cooler *may* help but I've got an 8274, a/c condenser, 11"X11" plate style tranny cooler & at speed I still get more than enough air flow. i've also heard of using ford taurus elec fan. they supposidly mover alot of air (someone on the coloradoK5 board said about 4000+ cfm) & they might be pretty cheap at a bone yard.

believe me, i feel your pain. I'm always dealing w/ cooling problems in my cruisers.

keep us up to date!!

Update 8-14-02 (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=73715)