Anyone know what group brought the jack hammer out to the Crown King trail and flattened the ledge just before the Oro Bell mine? I haven't seen the damage myself, just heard it through the grapevine.

I know it was a Bronco club that did it although I didn't get the name of the club. A guy I know talk to some guy that's in the club and they admitted to doing it. I will have to ask him tomorrow what club it was.

Bastards... A Bronco club of all things. I might expect it from an Exterra club, but why the hell would a Bronco club want to get rid of one of the only minor challenges on the whole damn trail???

What nerve! Why in the fuck would someone do that anyway, he doesn't own the trail!

I want to use his head as a BFH.

It doesn't say who did it, but it does say why. Pretty lame.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=68805&perpage=20&pagenumber=1

hey

We went thru there on Sat. It used to be a back to back ledge w/ a nice hole between'm. It's been reduced to a 2 wheel drive bump as long as you have a rear locker. The assholes jack hammered off the entire first ledge. I really feel like going back w/ a wheelbarrow and a 6 or 8 bags of concrete and rebuilding it again.

We did watch a stock Z71 extended cab hang up on it out of sheer stupidity tho :D After towing him over the bump he followed us the rest of the way to CK- all we could here was BANG, SCRAP, CRUNCH. Not very much clearance under the newer stock Chevy/GMC's.

later

Reminds me of when some assholes filled in the Fire Hole on Woodpecker...BasTurds brought about 10 sacks of ready-mix and some re-bar and filled it completeley (well enough so that if you fell in you wouldn't go too far). Unbelievable...

--D

Originally posted by RockRover
Reminds me of when some assholes filled in the Fire Hole on Woodpecker...BasTurds brought about 10 sacks of ready-mix and some re-bar and filled it completeley (well enough so that if you fell in you wouldn't go too far). Unbelievable...

--D

Why the fuck would someone do that!?!
If they didn't want to risk the damage as a result of falling in then don't do the obsticle. There's plenty of lines around it.
Some people are complete MORONS!!! :mad:

Jes

First a disclaimer: I am in no way shape or form condoning the "road building" of established EXTREME trails.

Now, about this "ledge" alot of people have become concerned aobut given the recent events; there is some misinformation and some "half of the story" telling here.

1. Yes, it was the Arizona Roadrunners running club that requested the "trail modification". Their support (chase) vehicles were beginning to have problems in recent years.

2. Yes, it was a local Bronco club that helped them out. I'm sure they had their reasons; I can think of one decent one and that is GOOD PR with a running club with a very large membership that perhaps does not understand our favorite form of recreation.

3. The trail in question is a FOREST SERVICE ROAD, not a 4.5++ hard core trail. The section of the trail modified was actually on PRIVATE LAND. The Az Roadrunners got written permission from both the Forest Service and the Private Land Owner.

4. This section of the trail was originally a 2WD road. I used to ride up this trail in the back of my dad's Sand Buggy (Not a rail -- old style sand buggy, take a mid '60's full frame car and chop, chop, chop and then add a roll bar/cage. Add some "off-road" tires on the rear) Some of my first memories ever wheelin' was on this trail -- and it was originally an easy 2WD dirt road. Only in the last 10 year or so has it been allowed to get washed out -- as the FS stopped maintaining the trail up through Oro Belle, favoring the road through Minnehaha instead.

The bottom line is, this was never a Hard Core or even supposed to be a "Mild Core" trail. If this is the only HC obstacle you've taken your rig across then I suggest you add some lift, bigger tires, a locker or two and go find some real trails.

Now I'm just assuming here, but this is a theory. There was a built Bronco helping a group of 250 hikers as a support vehicle. He was running up and down the trail all day. Near the end of the hikers pack their friends, relatives whatever were trying to get from Lake Pleasent to Crown King in stock 4x4s. The drivers seemed to have no off-road experience.

One of our guys got a flat just before the ledge, there is no where for most folks to safely pass there. Well a lady in a stock Xterra decided she had waited long enough and PUNCHED it around our guy, over the ledge and nearly flipped over the side of the trail into the ravine below. She was up on two wheels and screaming bloody murder at the top of her lungs.

The hikers were obnoxious. They barely left us enough room to pass and they gave us nasty comments all day. Near the end of the trail I started video taping the hikers as we passed by. From the video you can see they had plenty of room to move, but rather than take an extra step they expected me to climb up the side of the hill to pass. In one instance the lady yelped as she saw my truck go off camber towards her. I guess she though I was going to roll over and squash her. Near the end of the video I'm putting up you can see the Bronco that was running support for them.

We talked to the Bronco driver and told him we were going to be running Martinez Canyon the next day with the same group of Explorers and he said he was going to be there with his Bronco club at the same time. We never saw hide nor hair of him or his club on Martinez.


As far as the trail once being an easy trail for any 2wd well... Here is a photo of the 'con a "few" years back. Would it be ok to return the Sluice to this state of repair so "anyone" could do it"

http://www.pirate4x4.com/scrap/retro!/rubicon_littlesluice.jpg

Here is my Crown King Hikers video (approx 6megs}
www.explorerforum.com/azrun1/video/crownking.mpg

So, I'm just wondering if they did this to make things easier for their next hike up the mountain.

BTW, the trail for as long as I have been running it has had a sign at the bottom end that says: "Road Not Maintained beyond this point use at your own risk"

i dont like the fact that did it, but the yuppies have to get it ready for their jeep rubicons ya know:flipoff2: :flipoff2:
hey explorer you still wanna do telegraph line for old times sake?? i'm plannin on this fri. night and i'm leavin room open for a little nite fishin as well. i plan on a few not-heavily-modified easy trail trucks with, but i wanted to check out a little wash i saw that looked intersting, they can watch while you and i check it out:p

I'm not sure if this Friday will be possible. My truck is still in the shop having some tube doors fabbed up. This is where they were today:

http://www.flynhi.com/FST/pumpkin/doors1.jpg

Now if they worked straight through on my project it might be done by then, but that's doubtful they have to jump around from project to project and everything takes longer than expected.

I may be able to run telegraph with you but we could only go on sat. night (friend is comming back into town again). A coworker may also come along with a 4-runner. I'll see if i can convince them to go on friday night. What time were you going to go?

Did the heep ever get fixed? Did he ever sue? Did he sell his heep and buy another one :confused:(who would do a thing like that)?

Ryan

Difference between the Crown King Trail and the Rubicon is that the Crown King Trail HAD been maintained, BLADED from top to bottom once a year. It was only about 1995 that the FS stopped blading the route up through Oro Belle.

It was about this same time that they bladed in a new route AROUND the really washed out sections of the trail. Those optional "side" trails didn't exist until they did that. Up until that time, the FS came along once a year and bladed those sections smooth, usually just before Fire Season. AND it WAS maintained, sign or no sign, sort of. Blading once a year doesn't really count as "maintaining."

A little ways after Burro John's place (that flat area with the hill climbs just before Ft. Misery), the trail splits. If you go straight, you come out on the Senator Highway at Minnehaha. If you take the "switchback" to the right, you go up through Oro Belle and cut about 7 miles out of the trail.

I don't know why the FS stopped blading the route up through Oro Belle -- probably $$$ cutbacks. But when they did, that is when "the ledge" started developing. After I got out of the Army, in 1996, the "ledge" only gave people trouble when it was icy, after all at that point it wasn't much more than a small bump covered in ice. The rest of the year, you'd drive over it and never notice.

Progressively over the next few years it got worse and worse. Being that the group responsible for removing the ledge went through all of the proper channels. AND that except for the ledge and the OPTIONAL sections, the trail is really nothing more than a 2WD Forest Service Rd, I don't see any foul in this.

I DO have a problem with people filling in Hard Core trails with rocks, cement, or anything else to make it easier. I was PISSED the day I came up Predator to find that some knuckle-headed group had moved large rocks into the Squeeze to the point where you could now drive a narrow (< 78") vehicle through the bottom of it. I KNOW it was a group of people, because it would take at least 3 people to move some of those rocks.

If I ever caught someone "blading" one of the HC trails, you can bet that there will be something said/done. However, I see nothing wrong with a group doing trail maintenance to keep a 2.0 rated trail 2.0. NOT every trail in existance HAS to be allowed to degrade to the point that it takes a competition certified rig to go up it. After all if we don't let the beginners have their trails, then they're just going to be bustin' axles, getting in the way and stacking rocks on the extreme trails.

The Rubicon HAD been a road also. Hence the sedans at the Little Sluice in the photos. So why would the 4x4 club offer to destroy the ledge anyway? Aren't 4x4 club members supposed to enjoy "obstacles"?

BTW did anyone look at my movie? I thought it was pretty damn funny myself...

www.explorerforum.com/azrun1/video/crownking.mpg

yeah i check it out rick.....they wont even move and inch...just stand there and give ya dirty looks funny shit

Is the guy on the video in the Bronco with the flag the jack hammer operator? I see that Broc all the time I'd love to hear his side of the story. I suppose if he had written permission from the land owner and the forest service but.... no matter what that's some tree huggin' hippy shit.

hey-

in 1999, the Prescott National Forest passed a District Order (http://www.fs.fed.us/r3/prescott/news/order09-129.htm) that closed FS road's #192 and #711 to 2 wheel drive traffic. The Oro Belle section that was repaired falls within these boundaries. The road should be signed on both ends w/ this info. (of course, the Asshole's would either tear it down, burn it or shoot it)

Yes, this is a pleasure trip w/ no real challenges. It does make for a easy 1/2 day drive from the desert to the pines w/ good food and drink at Crown King. Every "rough" section of the trail has by-passes suitable for stock 4x4's, w/ the exception of the Oro Belle section. It had always been a local "ledge"nd (pun intended :D) since my high school years. (1978) It would wash out almost every summer- I'm just sorry to see it disapear-

later

Originally posted by Overkiller
Is the guy on the video in the Bronco with the flag the jack hammer operator? I see that Broc all the time I'd love to hear his side of the story. I suppose if he had written permission from the land owner and the forest service but.... no matter what that's some tree huggin' hippy shit.

The Bronco in the video was the guy working with the ever so friendly hikers. I have no way of knowing if he was involved in the jackhammer job. He did say he was a member of a local Bronco club, not sure if it was the one that was mentioned.

Yeah i watched your video rick. That was some funny shit, I woulda been yellin at those dumb fucks to get the hell outta the way before i ran their ass over. I understand that its an easy trail, and that they got permission, but i still think it sucks that they knocked out the one spot on the trail most everyone has stories about getting hung up on with a stock truck, or draggin stockers over, etc... I had a lot of fun there draggin peoples yuppie SUVs over it with my "cute ute" and i'll be sad when its not there next time i visit, even tho it would be like a speedbump to me now.

Dallas

The guy in the Bronco w/ the flag was one of the head guys from the Bronco club that helped out the running club.

The running club does their thing once a year (around the end of Jan to beginning of March), so its not like they're on it every weekend. To me most of the "runners" in the video had moved to the side of the road. Where'd ya want them to go from there? Jump over the edge? Remember that they have every right to be hiking on that trail as you do wheeling on it. YES, some of them can be inconsiderate asses that won't move off to the side. But then look at us wheelers -- we can have some considerable ass's too.

The forest service stopped maintaining the road via Oro Belle in the mid 90's and at the end of the 90's "closed" it to 2WD traffic. I believe this was at the request of the Land Owner -- who was pushing to get the entire section (on his property) closed to all vehicular traffic.

There's always more to the story than whats being told. Perhaps it was the Running club that convinced the land owner to let it remain open, otherwise they'd have to run through Minnehaha in order to have "chase vehicles." In exchange they'd come and knock down the ledge that the land owner was concerned about. After all this has turned into a sue happy country; all it'd take is one idiot in a stock 2WD mini-truck to launch themselves over the edge into the canyon finding out that it was private land and turning around and suing the land owner. This is just a possible scenario, I have no idea if this is even close to the truth.

The bottom line is, the Crown King trail will continue to be a challenge for Stock vehicles and novice drivers -- with or without the ledge. If you drive the Crown King trail for a "Challenge" then you need to put a lift on that stock rig and hit the numerous other trails in the area that will offer a better challenge.

To me, the Ledge at Oro Belle has never been anything more than a speed bump. Most of the people on this forum would drive over it in 2WD without even realizing they'd "done the ledge" MOST of the time, on popular weekend, the traffic backed up behind the ledge was rediculous. Most of the people that got hung up on it were novice drivers. I pulled one guy backwards off of it (stock full size truck, no way around and his *friends* never made sure that he made it over the ledge), and no sooner had I pulled the strap off before he floored it (spraying rocks over me) and got hung up again. I finally managed to convince him to let me by him so I could pull him over it. Then his Jaw dropped after I had passed him, climbed over the ledge, hooked him up to the strap AND THEN locked in my hubs so I'd have 4WD to pull him with.

Crying about someone removing "the ledge" at Oro Belle is like crying about the local mall removing your favorite speed bump. :rolleyes:

I just had to cut and paste this. Thanks for that link!!

Attention Prescott National Forest Visitors:

There are new restrictions for vehicles in this area. I have decided to restrict the types of vehicles that may access portions
of Oro Belle and Fort Misery Roads (Forest Development Roads 192 and 711). Recently, several serious incidents on these
roads involving low-clearance passenger vehicles have prompted me to take this action to protect the health and safety of
both the recreating public and emergency service providers. The roads are in poor condition, and the cost to reconstruct
them is greater than I am willing to commit at this time. Improvements to the roads are not needed for administration of
the National Forest.