: Axle wrap control questions


BadDog
08-03-2002, 07:41 PM
As some of you know, I'm been experimenting with a new rear suspension. In review, I've got F150 rear springs turned backward so the long side (originally the rear) is in front. For the rear (shackle) attachment, I have a modified Springer swing arm setup with the shocks setup to limit dramatic (un)loading of the swing arm in an attempt to reduce the problems normally associated with these types of setups. There is a bit more to it, but that is the gist. Problem is the reversed springs are very likely (certain) to cause substantial axle wrap on steep climbs and hard acceleration. I've been kicking around axle wrap control setups and I can't come up with anything I really like. Here are a few examples that I’ve considered and the problems I see. I would love some feedback and fresh ideas.

1) Marv Springer had a pretty good idea for putting a shock mounted to the top of my differential housing and running forward to a mount hanging from a new cross member. If the axle wanted to twist, it would have to compress or extend the shock. My problem here is that I'm planning to use a 23 gal K5 gas tank which is already going to be too close for comfort to the differential on hard compression (I'll likely make a bump stop on the front tank support just for piece of mind). Also, attaching to the differential is a bit complicated without buying an Avalanche style rock ring with top tab. I'm not crazy about welding to the differential housing. And making a sort of saddle mount that attaches to the pinion support plate (and maybe the cover bolts too) would be complicated build and would also complicate maintenance.

2) Build a sort of reverse ladder bar type setup with the ladder bar above the axle rather than below. This isn’t too complicated to build but it does have problems. Basically you have a rigid arm welded (or otherwise fixed) to the axle and running forward. Just behind the front spring hanger you mount a shackle. In order for the axle to twist, the forward end of the arm would need to move up and down when the axle rotates. The shackle would prevent that movement without hampering (much) the axle’s ability to move up and down. Ideally the front shackle is mounted near the tcase output so that the pinion is kept oriented (more-or-less) correctly to the output. This system generally will have some bind because it forces that pinion to a specific angle when the spring might prefer it be oriented a bit differently, but it’s not much and the benefit of keeping the pinion angle located relative to the output can’t be overlooked. Anyway, one problem here is that the emergency brake lines are in the way on the driver’s side. These are the funky split lines of a 1 ton and they are not that easy to relocate. I was thinking of splitting them to work separately and that would take care of this issue. The other is that the forward shackles will have to be behind the spring hangers on the frame. This is not the ideal location (for angle relative to tcase output) AND they will hang down at the perfect location to get hung up (about 10” in front of the rear tires). This is my most likely course, and I’m thinking I can build them primarily out of 1” x 0.125 tube I have on hand (if I can locate them where they are relatively safe from rocks).

3) I’ve also been kicking around some fairly elaborate cantilever stile setups where I could also mount my shocks and extend their travel while reducing the rate. Anyone got some good ideas or pics of setups like this?

Anyway, pics or descriptions of various rear axle anti-wrap setups would be much appreciated. My head hurts from thinking too much!!!

frankie fountain
08-03-2002, 08:20 PM
i have contemplated the idea of kicker style shocks ,but use a small hyd.cyl.and make it air over hyd.then you may be able to control axle wrap by preasuer its an idea. take if you can make it work. i also have contemplated this system for a sway bare this will make it ajustable for diferent terain.:confused:

heep86
08-03-2002, 08:23 PM
I have f-150springs turned backwords, on my cj-7, with 42" swamppers. I have been using a ladder-type bar attached just to the passenger side of the diff. and use a heim to a shackle to a new croomember. this system works great to control axel wrap ( however it does not force traction, and transfer weight like only a 4 link can) the only problems i've had are 1. the 3/4" heim at the new crossmember sheared, solution is to use a 1" heim in that location. 2. the other issue is that with the extreme flex I have, when my driverside tire droops, and the goofy leaf drops, and the tire still has plenty of traction, the driver side rear tire walks up under the vehicle, and invert the shacle, and bend the spring.. the solution to this problem is a telescoping bar on the drivers side of the diff, that limits forward movement.

after these 2 updates this anti wrap set up performs flawlessly to prevent wrap with out limiting any flex.

i hope it helps

frankie fountain
08-03-2002, 08:40 PM
Originally posted by heep86
I have f-150springs turned backwords, on my cj-7, with 42" swamppers. I have been using a ladder-type bar attached just to the passenger side of the diff. and use a heim to a shackle to a new croomember. this system works great to control axel wrap ( however it does not force traction, and transfer weight like only a 4 link can) the only problems i've had are 1. the 3/4" heim at the new crossmember sheared, solution is to use a 1" heim in that location. 2. the other issue is that with the extreme flex I have, when my driverside tire droops, and the goofy leaf drops, and the tire still has plenty of traction, the driver side rear tire walks up under the vehicle, and invert the shacle, and bend the spring.. the solution to this problem is a telescoping bar on the drivers side of the diff, that limits forward movement.

after these 2 updates this anti wrap set up performs flawlessly to prevent wrap with out limiting any flex.

i hope it helps sounds like a pyle o shit to me:flipoff2:

frankie fountain
08-03-2002, 08:42 PM
i'm just kidding this guy went to work for me he's ok but hes a yank but dont tell him he dosnot know about the mason dixon thing .:D

coyote
08-03-2002, 08:50 PM
IH8MUD.COM or instead of a shock try a torque spring, http://www.colemanracing.com, this compresses a spring to adsorb rotational pressure......

heep86
08-03-2002, 08:52 PM
Originally posted by frankie fountain
i'm just kidding this guy went to work for me he's ok but hes a yank but dont tell him he dosnot know about the mason dixon thing .:D


at least we can spell north of the mason dixon line, even if we don't know how to use the shift key.

frankie fountain
08-03-2002, 08:55 PM
no rais for you yankeedoodle:flipoff2: