What does everyone think of this caliber? Pros? Cons?


Right now I'm trying to plan out my next couple of gun purchases. I want two rifles, but they are basically at different ends of the spectrum. To begin I want a scout type rifle (most likely a ruger frontier) for hunting hogs and deer at close range in heavy brush. For the second rifle I want something I can begin building into a long range gun. I'm thinking a remington 700, maybe with a JAE stock (damn you Pete for posting pics of those :D) down the road if I can afford it. For the most part it will be for punching paper, but I still want it to have the power at longer ranges to kill something large if necessary, such as a hog. For some reason I want to use the same caliber for each gun. I figured the .308 would probably be a decent choice for this setup until I was at a local gander mountain and got to play with a ruger frontier (my choice for the scout gun) in the 300 WSM. Some quick research shows it to be a flat shooting hard hitting caliber that would probably work pretty well for my intended uses as a hunting rifle, but I haven't seen much on using it for target shooting.

Had a .300 Win Mag, bought a WSM just to fuck with it. Kicked noticeably harder, was less accurate (I reloaded for both rifles), and I don't mind carrying the extra weight. The holes in the action for the bases were also fubar'd from the factory, but that was the byproduct of Browning rushing them out the door, not the fault of the cartridge. Sold it and hung on to my normal 300 Mag.

i don't think you can blame the wsm for more recoil than a standard win mag. if they are shooting the same bullet at the same velocity, the recoil should be the same. the wsm was probably in a short action and a lighter rifle than the wm.

you can get near the same velocities out of a 300 wsm as a 300 wm with less powder and in a short action. if i were to start from scratch and build a 30 cal, it would be a 300 wsm. i still love my 300 win mag and will re-barrel it in the same caliber when it is time. the win mag still has the edge when pushed hard.

Yeah, I would assume the increased recoil was caused by the lighter gun (they were identical except for the long vs. short action). However, I'm fairly recoil sensitive and don't mind carrying the extra weight. My shoulder was much less sore at the end of the day when shooting the long mag.

Frankly, I think it's mostly a gimmick with only slightly better ballistics. If you really want the WSM just because, go for it. Otherwise, it's not the second coming of christ.

This is coming from a guy who recently sold the long mag to build a custom 7 mag, and is now thinking about reaming it to an STW before it's even finished, just for the hell of it. So, that gives you some idea of how prone I am to doing something just because.

if they are shooting the same bullet at the same velocity, the recoil should be the same. the wsm was probably in a short action and a lighter rifle than the wm.


I shoot .300 WM out of an 8 lb Remington 700 XCR. 20 rd box = death of shoulder. :laughing:

300 winmag is an excellent caliber IMO, very versatile. You can go from hogs and deer to elk and bear if you want.

If you're looking for a gun to shoot through heavy brush, have you considered a slug gun?

I think the WSM is a bad ass idea. If the performance is similar to a long action and fits in a short action, that's a pretty sweet setup IMO.

Think the Army would have chosen a long action 700 if they'd known that they could get .300 WM capability in a short action?

I think the WSM is a bad ass idea. If the performance is similar to a long action and fits in a short action, that's a pretty sweet setup IMO.

Think the Army would have chosen a long action 700 if they'd known that they could get .300 WM capability in a short action?

Uhhhh...they picked .223 and .308.....

Uhhhh...they picked .223 and .308.....


uhhhh, the m24 was built on a long action so they could change easily from .308 to .300 win mag. i don't think many were ever converted but they still use a long action.

the m24 was built on a long action so they could change easily from .308 to .300 win mag

...but they didn't.

...but they didn't.

re-read what tim84 wrote.



Think the Army would have chosen a long action 700 if they'd known that they could get .300 WM capability in a short action?

Drrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr....:homer: I misread the first time.

I think it's an interesting thing to think about. 30-06 was replaced by .308...and since then, modern powders have rendered them ballistically equal.

If, similarly, .308 was ever replaced by .300 WSM or a similar cartridge, it'd be a natural evolution, methinks. If the same pressure and a more modern powder can put more thump into the same .30 caliber bullet, I can't see why any long range shooter wouldn't find it superior.

Now whether or not it actually provides an increase in accuracy, or downrange lethality that makes it worth the cost of replacing all those rifles, we may never know.

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f17/1-450-yard-shots-300-wsm-video-28831/

I think it's an interesting thing to think about. 30-06 was replaced by .308...and since then, modern powders have rendered them ballistically equal.

If, similarly, .308 was ever replaced by .300 WSM or a similar cartridge, it'd be a natural evolution, methinks. If the same pressure and a more modern powder can put more thump into the same .30 caliber bullet, I can't see why any long range shooter wouldn't find it superior.

Now whether or not it actually provides an increase in accuracy, or downrange lethality that makes it worth the cost of replacing all those rifles, we may never know.

there is no way a .308 is equal to a 30-06. don't forget modern powders improved the 06 also. people are getting it into the 300 win mag range with the 30-06 now. let's see a .308 push a 190 smk to 2950 fps.

there is no way a .308 is equal to a 30-06. don't forget modern powders improved the 06 also. people are getting it into the 300 win mag range with the 30-06 now. let's see a .308 push a 190 smk to 2950 fps.

Agreed. A .308 shares the same case dims as a 06 just a bit shorter

there is no way a .308 is equal to a 30-06. don't forget modern powders improved the 06 also. people are getting it into the 300 win mag range with the 30-06 now. let's see a .308 push a 190 smk to 2950 fps.

I don't have a 30-06 that'd stabilize 190 SMKs, but if I did, it appears that you are partially right--30-06 is capable of pushing a 190 grain bullet almost as fast as the .300 WM (I have published 3000+ FPS data for the .300 WM 190 grain load, but it doesn't say what barrel length was used).

A quick look online finds .300 WSM data for a 190 grain bullet @ up to 2950 FPS. Long actions and belted cartridges seem to have limited advantage with performance like that from a short action cartridge.

You're certainly right that .308 can't hang with either of them with such heavy bullets, though. My 1 in 12 would probably never shoot them anyway, although I do have some 175s that I plan to load.

I was looking at a 300 WSM, the thing that turned me off was loading a bullet over 180 grains with most powders is impossible since you run out of case capacity with the longer 200/220 gr bullets when seated to factory specs. For most people, I imagine the 165/180 gr bullet selection is just fine, but I prefer the heavier slugs.

With 57gr of H4350 and 180gr bullet I'm pushing ~2800 fps anyway in my 06, so a gain of 100-150 fps for the WSM didn't seem worth it.

Some good info here. I'm somewhat concerned with the recoil on a small gun like the frontier, but hopefully it shouldn't be bad since this will only be a hunting rifle. Plus I'm not a small guy and I've been hunting with larger rifles like the .300 WM and .338 since I was twelve, so I'm used to alot of kick. My dad currently uses a .300 WM, and has tried the .300 WSM and seems to like it.

As for the whole short action versus long action thing, I'm kind of suck with having to get something in the short action since both guns I want to build (ruger frontier, rem 700 with JAE stock) are only available in short actions, so the 300 WSM looks like a good option

I was looking at a 300 WSM, the thing that turned me off was loading a bullet over 180 grains with most powders is impossible since you run out of case capacity with the longer 200/220 gr bullets when seated to factory specs. For most people, I imagine the 165/180 gr bullet selection is just fine, but I prefer the heavier slugs.

With 57gr of H4350 and 180gr bullet I'm pushing ~2800 fps anyway in my 06, so a gain of 100-150 fps for the WSM didn't seem worth it.

Why would you load according to factory specs:confused: I set my bullets out as far as possible to hit the lands sooner and get a little more case capacity

Why would you load according to factory specs:confused: I set my bullets out as far as possible to hit the lands sooner and get a little more case capacity

At hunting range, I don't see the advantage to 190 grain bullets anyway. It'll stay supersonic longer, but it's going to drop like a rock compared to a lighter bullet.

Why would you load according to factory specs:confused: I set my bullets out as far as possible to hit the lands sooner and get a little more case capacity

Reliable feeding ;). A target gun is one thing, but in a hunting rifle you can run into issues running longer than spec. For one the tips can get dinged in the magazine, and they can also can hang up on the feed ramp.

Reliable feeding ;). A target gun is one thing, but in a hunting rifle you can run into issues running longer than spec. For one the tips can get dinged in the magazine, and they can also can hang up on the feed ramp.

Thats why I practice with what I hunt with. ;). My philosophy is that I should get the same accuracy when hunting as I do when I target practice. Take my SKS for instance. I can wallop a 15x10 steel plate 4 times out of 5 @ 200 yards. But I would never dare take a shot at an animal with accuracy like that because I won't know exactly where my bullet is hitting. My 6.8SPC will put 5 shots into a 2" circle at 200 though. So I have no problem taking head shots.

Besides I believe in one shot one kill so on bolt guns I have one in the chamber and one in my chest pocket

i don't think you can blame the wsm for more recoil than a standard win mag. if they are shooting the same bullet at the same velocity, the recoil should be the same. the wsm was probably in a short action and a lighter rifle than the wm.

you can get near the same velocities out of a 300 wsm as a 300 wm with less powder and in a short action. if i were to start from scratch and build a 30 cal, it would be a 300 wsm. i still love my 300 win mag and will re-barrel it in the same caliber when it is time. the win mag still has the edge when pushed hard.

The WSM rounds create higher CUP to do the same thing with the same round@FPS then the standard rounds.

I have shot 2 300WSM and 1 7WSM...both kicked way too hard for the rifle/load. Add onto that the big flippin deal of short mags in for use in shorter actions/lighter rifles. This all equals more recoil.

I like the 300WINMAG and I LOVE the 300WBY and have loaded my Weatheby at all ends of the spectrum. I can shoot it all day long with handloads most of wich are equal or higher velocity then the 300WSM. That 300WSM hurts after 20 rounds.

Buy a real 300WINMAG in the 700 and be happy. The only useful WSM is the now almost defunct 243WSSM for pistol use.

The WSM rounds create higher CUP to do the same thing with the same round@FPS then the standard rounds.

I have shot 2 300WSM and 1 7WSM...both kicked way too hard for the rifle/load. Add onto that the big flippin deal of short mags in for use in shorter actions/lighter rifles. This all equals more recoil.

I like the 300WINMAG and I LOVE the 300WBY and have loaded my Weatheby at all ends of the spectrum. I can shoot it all day long with handloads most of wich are equal or higher velocity then the 300WSM. That 300WSM hurts after 20 rounds.

Buy a real 300WINMAG in the 700 and be happy. The only useful WSM is the now almost defunct 243WSSM for pistol use.

i don't think cup has anything to do with recoil. that is chamber pressure not the pressure pushing back on your shoulder. if the rifle, bullet and velocity are the same, recoil should be the same. i have been wrong before so please correct me if i am now.

F=MV^2

Pressure isn't in that equation.

Besides I believe in one shot one kill so on bolt guns I have one in the chamber and one in my chest pocket

Slinking around the brush in grizzly country, I'd rather give up 1/2" of accuracy at 100yds and have all the rounds in my rifle chamber reliably ;) . It's just a matter of priorities .

At hunting range, I don't see the advantage to 190 grain bullets anyway. It'll stay supersonic longer, but it's going to drop like a rock compared to a lighter bullet.

Bullet weight has nothing to do with drop. Gravity effects all things equally and 2 bullets regardless of weight will drop same amount with the same flight time. Velocity has an effect on drop, a faster cartridge spends less time in flight letting gravity effect it less, so it will appear to have less "drop" at the same yardage compared to another bullet.

Remember, acceleration on anything here on earth is 9.8 m/second squared. Gravity pulls on it the same weather it's a 100 grain bullet or a 2 ton car. In you case it drops like a rock because the lighter bullet is faster. If you can bring a 190g bullet up to a lighter bullets velocity, it will drop roughly the same. Also, the slower a cartridge is, the more gravity effects it. This is why you see such drastic drops in later yardages. Why the difference in drop between 300 and 400 yards is so much great then 100 and 200 yards, it all has to do with velocity.

Recoil is

KE=MV2/GC

M=Rifle Mass
V=Rifle's velocity
GC=the Gravitational Constant of the earth or 64.32

To get rifle velocity you have to know a few things

V=bullet weight in (grs) / 7000 x bullet velocity (fps) + powder weight (grs) / 7000 x power gas velocity (fps)

the useful average for powder velocity is 5200 fps, and if you use that in all you calculations, you can relate two guns recoil effectively. The 7000 figure is to convert grains to pounds, so it's in the right unit for the recoil equation.

Keep in mind this will just give you a number in foot-pounds and really may not relate to felt recoil (kick). Much of felt recoil has to do with one's own mass, shooting position, stock style, barrel length and many other factors.

Recoil is

KE=MV2/GC

M=Rifle Mass
V=Rifle's velocity
GC=the Gravitational Constant of the earth or 64.32

To get rifle velocity you have to know a few things

V=bullet weight in (grs) / 7000 x bullet velocity (fps) + powder weight (grs) / 7000 x power gas velocity (fps)

the useful average for powder velocity is 5200 fps, and if you use that in all you calculations, you can relate two guns recoil effectively. The 7000 figure is to convert grains to pounds, so it's in the right unit for the recoil equation.

Keep in mind this will just give you a number in foot-pounds and really may not relate to felt recoil (kick). Much of felt recoil has to do with one's own mass, shooting position, stock style, barrel length and many other factors.

FWIW, Chuck Hawks has a recoil chart (http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm).
300 WSM and 300 Win Mag show about the same (1/4lb difference in rifle weight) on that chart, and the other two I looked at.

I agree "perceived recoil" is subjective and can be hard to quantify.