Bullet Industries Abrasives review

[AthlonAJ]

Since I use abrasive discs and flap discs on a daily basis in the shop, I figured why not give them a try. So I ordered some 4.5 60 grit zirconia flap discs along with a few 5" 60 grit zirc discs.

The results...I'll keep the regular discs, they worked just as well as any other brand, pretty hard to mess those up. But the flap discs, wow...absolute garbage. It did not hold up worth a dam, it was completely useless within 3 hours. And to give it a fair shot I tried another one, same thing. Now keep in mind I've been doing this same type of work for almost 10 years, so it's not like I was doing anything different that day.

For comparison I normally use Enco's flap discs and they last about a 7-10 days each. Pricewise they're a little more, usually catch them on sale for about $2.95 each, well worth it though! I'll be giving away those Bullet ones to a friend.

[miniyota]

yeah

i bought a bunch of crap from them.

the flap disks suck. the regular grinding disks are fine.

i also bought the 100 tooth 14" carbide saw blade for metal. i've been using since august. and its still going strong. i'll probably get another one of those.

so far the best grinding disks have been Dewalt. i can make those last up to 2 weeks.

[Smith & ARROW]

If you guys are interested I am happy to offer you some free samples of my company's Zirconia Flap Discs to test and report back here.

We sell a range of abrasives around the world including the US and I am willing to back our discs against any other that you have tried.

If you ae interested, message me your delivery address details, prefered disc size and grit and I will send you both a pack of ten on the condition that you take the time to write back here with you honest opinion of the quality!

Ben Ferguson
Managing Director
Smith & ARROW (US) LLC
www.smithandarrow.com

[Bullet Industries]

*** FYI: Rocky Bomgaars - a representative of Bullet Industries, the makers of the abrasive products in the subject of this thread - has made it clear that the user "Bullet Industries" is *not* a representative of their company.***

DRM
Pirate4x4.com Tool Forum Moderator

I read your post and it made me think of a story I heard told by the CEO of Black and Decker.
Black and Decker had just purchased a little know tool company called Dewalt. After the purchase, they reengineered most of the tools using B&D technology, branded them in yellow and released them back into the marking keeping the name "Dewalt". As we know, the brand Dewalt became very popular. After a few months on the market, the CEO of B&D was at a tool show. The B&D booth was next to the Dewalt booth but not connected. A man came up the to Dewalt booth, picked up a cordless drill and said to the CEO of B&D, "You see this?, this company is going to kick your butt's". Little did he know he was holding a B&D product painted yellow with a different brand.
What I'm trying to say is, all this sandpaper comes from the same place. Yes, it's assembled in different factories but the actual paper comes from the same place. So when ever I someone say this paper is better then that paper I think, this is either someone connected to another company trying to kill the competition, or it's someone who's been fooled by good branding. Either way who ever you are, you sure don't know what the hell you're talking about.

[nissancrawler]

Well, there's one manufacturer I won't be buying from, nice response jackass. :shaking:

I haven't used Smith& Arrows flap disks, but their chopsaw blades, and 3"/4.5" cutoff wheels are top notch.

[randii]

What I'm trying to say is, all this sandpaper comes from the same place. Yes, it's assembled in different factories but the actual paper comes from the same place.
Really? So where does all the sandpaper in the universe come from? Who makes it?

Either way who ever you are, you sure don't know what the hell you're talking about.
Look in the mirror. Mmm-K.

Maybe Bullet Industries needs to do a little bit of research... I'll start you off:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandpaper
Coated abrasives abound, and I'm guessing that the Federation of European Producers of Abrasives may have more than just one manufacturer in it. :rolleyes: ...and that ain't 3M! :laughing:

Randii

[chris demartini]

I bought some flap disks and some 3" die grinder disks from Bullet Industries a few weeks ago. So far I've only used the die grinder disks, I have no complaints. The price was right and shipping was quick. If the flap disks wear out a little faster than the expensive ones, I'll still be ahead because the Bullet ones are cheaper and I don't fab for a living.

[jamscal]

http://www.lehighvalleyabrasives.com/servlet/StoreFront

These are the best value for flap discsI've found.

Haven't used anything but the flap discs, but I'm sure the other stuff is a like quality.

Pretty cheap, and ship in a flat rate usps box.


-James

[AthlonAJ]

If you guys are interested I am happy to offer you some free samples of my company's Zirconia Flap Discs to test and report back here.

We sell a range of abrasives around the world including the US and I am willing to back our discs against any other that you have tried.

If you ae interested, message me your delivery address details, prefered disc size and grit and I will send you both a pack of ten on the condition that you take the time to write back here with you honest opinion of the quality!

Ben Ferguson
Managing Director
Smith & ARROW (US) LLC
www.smithandarrow.com

Appreciate the offer, sent you a PM with my info. I'll gladly give them a try and post up an honest review.


What I'm trying to say is, all this sandpaper comes from the same place. Yes, it's assembled in different factories but the actual paper comes from the same place. So when ever I someone say this paper is better then that paper I think, this is either someone connected to another company trying to kill the competition, or it's someone who's been fooled by good branding. Either way who ever you are, you sure don't know what the hell you're talking about.
It's one thing to have a trade professional come onto the world's largest offroad message board, but then to have a representative of the product come on and be a complete jerk spouting total BS is beyond moronic. "All sandpaper comes from the same place"...would you care to wager money on that one? :laughing::laughing:

I could honestly care less about the brand and I have to affiliation with any product line. I'm just a small business owner in the metal fabrication industry who is always looking for a better product at a better price, period. Obviously your own arrogance clouds your common sense. I may have purchased more of the regular discs from you in the future, after a jackass response like that....no way you'll see that.

I bought some flap disks and some 3" die grinder disks from Bullet Industries a few weeks ago. So far I've only used the die grinder disks, I have no complaints. The price was right and shipping was quick. If the flap disks wear out a little faster than the expensive ones, I'll still be ahead because the Bullet ones are cheaper and I don't fab for a living.

Not trying to steer you away but seriously the Enco brand holds up A LOT better and only $1 more. I honestly would say it that one Enco brand would last as long as 6-8 of the Bullet.

[AthlonAJ]

Here's a few pics to show what I'm talking about. Honestly the only flap disc that I've used that was this poor was from HF. It's not as if I didn't want these to work or something, just the opposite.

In both of these pics, the Bullet Ind. disc is on the right. For comparison I sat it next to an Enco disc on the left. Keep in mind the Bullet disc was used for a few hours, the Enco disc has been in use for about 2 weeks and still being used.
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee18/AJsArmor/Shop%20Stuff/Img_1545.jpg
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee18/AJsArmor/Shop%20Stuff/Img_1542.jpg

The other thing I noticed is that even new there is not much thickness there. In this pic I laid a straight edge across that same used Enco disc (on the right) and a brand new Bullet disc (on left). The used Enco has the same thickness as their new.
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee18/AJsArmor/Shop%20Stuff/Img_1546.jpg

And to be fair I'll post up a side by side view of a new Enco disc when they come in a couple days to see the difference.

[Smith & ARROW]

An interesting response by “Bullet Industries”, however the lack of signature, the content, and the “tone”, does make me suspicious as to its authenticity.

I personally am not aware of the quality of Bullet Industry products. Neither I nor anyone in my company have ever tested them. However, the “Bullet Industries” web site is very professional and would lead me to believe that they have the knowledge and expertise in abrasives to produce a wide range of products within a reputable business framework. As such, I find it difficult to believe that a person from this company (a company that appears to be very professional from what I have seen on their web site) who as an individual also has the authority to represent Bullet Industries in a Forum such as this, would make the comments that have been made here.

However, perhaps I am wrong.

I appreciate the support for example that Nissan_Crawler has posted for my company’s products, however, I think for anyone to denigrate Bullet Industries based on this one, clearly ill-informed, unsigned posting is unfair to Bullet Industries.

I have the utmost respect for anyone who takes the risk and puts in the long, hard hours that are required to establish their own business and to keep it alive in a world that gets more competitive every day – no matter what the business is. Until it is made clear that this comment posted by “Bullet Industries” is in fact really attributable to that company, then I believe that this comment should not be used as an excuse for negative statements about Bullet Industries as a company.

As some background – Smith & ARROW Pty Ltd is an Australian company with subsidiaries in the UK, the US, and New Zealand. We manufacture our own range of abrasives that we are very proud of. Our goal is to provide high quality abrasives to the metal fabrication industry at prices that are significantly less expensive than our competitors’ that produce goods of the same high quality.

We manufacture Ultra-thin INOX grade Cutting Wheels, ZIRCONIA Flap discs, and Grinding wheels and sell into the US, New Zealand, Australia, the EU, and even into China!

Regarding my posting specificly, I have received some credible interest and will happily be sending out some free samples for open testing in this thread. Stay tuned!

Ben Ferguson
Managing Director
Smith & ARROW (US) LLC
www.smithandarrow.com

[miniyota]

thanks. i sent a PM. hope to have something to try out. i'm just a small shop starting out. the better the product is the more likely i am willing to pay for it. right now the dewalts are working for me. they cost about $3 per flap disk. so they are not overly priced.

[sawzallsammy]

http://www.lehighvalleyabrasives.com/servlet/StoreFront

These are the best value for flap discsI've found.

Haven't used anything but the flap discs, but I'm sure the other stuff is a like quality.

Pretty cheap, and ship in a flat rate usps box.


-James

thanks for the link. It's even a local company to me so shipping will be fast, need to call about possibly picking stuff up there.

[Smith & ARROW]

Is there anyone here who uses lots of 7" Zirconia Flap discs?

[Brad]

Is there anyone here who uses lots of 7" Zirconia Flap discs?

I work in a big industrial fab shop and we use ALL kinds of abrasives, from die grinders with cut off wheels and flap wheels to 9" air an electric grinders. Steel, stainless and other non ferrous metals. We currently use 3M and some other brand I dont remember the name of. I can put you in touch with the VP of the fab shop if you would like. PM me if you would like.

Id be interested in some of the 4.5" ones for personal use. Might have to order some and try them out.

[SirMrManGuy]

I read your post and it made me think of a story I heard told by the CEO of Black and Decker.
Black and Decker had just purchased a little know tool company called Dewalt. After the purchase, they reengineered most of the tools using B&D technology, branded them in yellow and released them back into the marking keeping the name "Dewalt". As we know, the brand Dewalt became very popular. After a few months on the market, the CEO of B&D was at a tool show. The B&D booth was next to the Dewalt booth but not connected. A man came up the to Dewalt booth, picked up a cordless drill and said to the CEO of B&D, "You see this?, this company is going to kick your butt's". Little did he know he was holding a B&D product painted yellow with a different brand.
What I'm trying to say is, all this sandpaper comes from the same place. Yes, it's assembled in different factories but the actual paper comes from the same place. So when ever I someone say this paper is better then that paper I think, this is either someone connected to another company trying to kill the competition, or it's someone who's been fooled by good branding. Either way who ever you are, you sure don't know what the hell you're talking about.

While its quite possible that it comes from the same factory, it dosen't mean that everything is the same. There are hosts of different substrates (backing papers) and agregates that can be used to make sand paper and I'm sure that the factory has multiple different lines, as well as custom formulas for many customers.

[ZJSAMPLE]

Is there anyone here who uses lots of 7" Zirconia Flap discs?


I would be interested in trying one of the 4.5" ones.

[Rocky@Bullet]

My name is Rocky Bomgaars and I work for Bullet Industries. This forum post came to my attention last week thanks to Google Alerts, and after pondering over the weekend how to respond to such an outrageous posting by someone claiming to speak for the company I work for, I will be direct and brisk.

1. @Bullet Industries, I contacted Pirate4x4.com in regards to your poaching of our business name, if you continue to post under that username, we will react accordingly.
2. I would like to commend the skepticism and professionalism shown by Smith & Arrow, it is greatly appreciated.
3. To the entire Pirate4x4.com community, I'm very sorry this event was required for Bullet Industries to become involved in your great online community. I plan to make constructive visits in the future.


Rocky Bomgaars
Bullet Industries
www.bulletindustries.com (http://www.bulletindustries.com)
myfirstname@bulletindustries.com (helps stop spam)

[jpmassey]

I bought about $100 worth of bullet flap disks and grinding wheels. At 1/4 the price of the norton ones, I don't really care if they wear out quicker (which they do).
I find that even on the expensive ones, the effectiveness wears off quickly, even if the paper remains. I'm usually pretty abusive on the disks, jamming the edges in corners, etc.
The one thing I don't like is the lack of a taper. (The paper is flat on the bottom).

[BB1980]

Is there anyone here who uses lots of 7" Zirconia Flap discs?

I have a 7" at home, but don't have any flap discs for it yet. I have been meaning to buy some.

Also, I looked at the US website and I think the prices are off on most of the per disc prices for the 7" discs that say 3.43 per disc. At 5 per box and $43.50 per box that would be $8.70 per disc like the first one says. The others aren't correct. Just thought you'd like to know.
Page was this one: http://www.smithandarrow.com/untabrasives.php

It listed:

7" x 7/8"
(40 Grit)
5 BOX
($8.70 per disc) $43.50

7" x 7/8"
(60 Grit)
5 BOX
($3.43 per disc) $43.50

7" x 7/8"
(80 Grit)
5 BOX
($3.43 per disc) $43.50

7" x 7/8"
(120 Grit)
5 BOX
($3.43 per disc) $43.50

[vetteboy79]

I bought about $100 worth of bullet flap disks and grinding wheels. At 1/4 the price of the norton ones, I don't really care if they wear out quicker (which they do).
I find that even on the expensive ones, the effectiveness wears off quickly, even if the paper remains. I'm usually pretty abusive on the disks, jamming the edges in corners, etc.
The one thing I don't like is the lack of a taper. (The paper is flat on the bottom).

They sell both kinds of flap discs, tapered and flat (type 27 and type 29 I think).

So far I've tried the following from Bullet:

- 4.5" standard flap discs, 60- and 80-grit
- 4.5" grinding discs, with the threaded boss
- 4.5" cutoff wheels
- flap discs for die grinder
- 14" abrasive chop saw blades
- regular sheet sanding paper, 220- and 600-grit
- wire brushes

Generally I think it's decent stuff, just without the longevity of more expensive brands. I tend to wear cutoff wheels and flap discs down to useless nubs anyway so I've managed to get some decent life out 'em, but probably at the expense of jobs taking longer and requiring more effort. That's less of a problem for me though than it is for guys like AJ.

Also, the local Home Depot/Lowes gets almost $7 for a single DeWalt flap disc. Compared to that I can go through a ton of Bullet products and still be ahead.

The die grinder sanding discs didn't last worth a crap. Turned into flying bits of dust and string within seconds of the first use.

Sanding paper was pretty nice actually, I was using the 600 grit for wet-sanding a high-fill primer coat and I was happy with how it turned out.

Wire brushes were a good deal, I'm still using them almost a year later with very little bristle loss.

[DRM]

A couple of house cleaning issues from the staff:

1. I have moved this our of the VENDOR forums to the Tool forum, where is belongs.
2. I have added a disclaimer to the lose user post by "Bullet Industries", stating that user is NOT a representaive of the company in question in this thread - Bullet Industries.
3. It is against forum policies for any forum member to agree to do a review of any vendor products under the condition of that review show up here on the forums. This policiy is in place primarily to protect vendors from giving away products to users who represent themselves as being able to deliver an official Pirate4x4.com product review, when that user is unable to commit to that review. Since AthalonAJ and Smith & ARROW seem to have already gotten this far - I see no reason to interfere. However, I want Smith & ARROW to understand that AtalonAJ is not a representative of Pirate4x4.com. Just making sure we're all clear on that :cool2:
4. Hello and WELCOME to any new vendors who have found their way here! Please take a minute to check out http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/payments.php to learn how to become a Yellow Star Vendor and the benefits that brings with it.
5. If one of you vendors would like to provide products to Pirate4x4.com staff for an official review to be placed on this website, you can send me a Private Message or emauil me drm@4x4spot.com and I will put you in contact with the appropriate person to get your product reviewed and published.

Now get back to the discussion :p

[bigdreamin]

So where did the Smith and Arrow thread go?

[DRM]

So where did the Smith and Arrow thread go?

Away until it can be addressed appropriately.

[Smith & ARROW]

Away until it can be addressed appropriately.

For the record…

Since nissancrawler was kind enough to post the outcome of a similar proposal we made on garagejournal.com:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=698782

on Pirate4x4 I have contacted this forum on 4 separate occasions, requesting advice and information on the possibility of having some formal testing of our products done here as well as the possibility of paid advertising on the site. The most recent attempt was 2 weeks ago using the appropriate link from this Forum:

Pirate4x4.Com Product Reviews
If you would like to submit your product for a product review, please contact us.

I have never received a reply.

An offer for paid advertising is rarely ignored. From this outcome I assumed that this Forum may have some other pre-existing contract / relationship with another abrasives company, and as such, decided that posting the proposal that I did was the only way I could bring Smith & ARROW abrasive products to the attention of your members.

I have never deliberately tried to circumnavigate the Forum’s policies on this type of offer and believe I have always acted in good faith.

I am not offering to spend hundreds of dollars sending out free samples of our abrasives for testing to the members of this forum because I am a benevolent big fat man with a beard and Christmas is coming - I am selling Smith & ARROW, or more correctly, I am putting our brand, relatively new to the US market, up for testing.

I believe Smith & ARROW have a range of excellent quality abrasives at significantly cheaper prices than the same quality offered by our competitors and as Managing Director of Smith & ARROW, I am putting my neck on the line by asking random members of this forum to test our range and report back honestly.

I do not know if the recipients will take the time to report back. I do not know if any of the recipients have some alliance with our competitors and will report a poor performance to the biggest 4x4 Forum in the world, purely for their own interests.

I respect the forum members enough to believe they will accept the testing proposal for what it is, and nothing more. They will understand that testing will be done using different machines on different metals by people with different skill levels in different ways, and as such, the testing can not be construed as “formal” or the same as if it were being done by a “professional testing authority”.

However, I do know that having our range tested in the workshops and the garages of the people who use these products every day, overall, will be a fair test. I believe that the critical mass of those that we choose to test our products (if we are allowed to continue with this proposal) will be decent honest people who will offer us a fair and balanced assessment out of respect for the open manner in which my company has conducted itself on this Forum.


PS. BB1980 You are correct, this is a mistake on our web site. We sell our 7" ZIRCONIA Flap discs for $8.70 each in packs of 5 and $8 each in packs of 10. I will have it corrected - thanks for the heads up!

[Rocky@Bullet]

2. I have added a disclaimer to the lose user post by "Bullet Industries", stating that user is NOT a representaive of the company in question in this thread - Bullet Industries.

DRM, I'm thankful that this was addressed and how this it was implemented. We appreciate all reviews/opinions from our customers, it allows us to improve our weak areas and bolster our strong suits.

[Smith & ARROW]

A couple of house cleaning issues
... Since AthalonAJ and Smith & ARROW seem to have already gotten this far - I see no reason to interfere. However, I want Smith & ARROW to understand that AtalonAJ is not a representative of Pirate4x4.com. Just making sure we're all clear on that :cool2:

Now get back to the discussion :p

Just a little confused here guys.

"I see no reason to interfere" yet the Smith & ARROW thread is still down?

Is it going back up?

[Brad]

I can see how Pirate4x4 would not want people thinking that a forum member is an "official representative". BUT, by having someone independant of a company that is giving thier honest opinion of a product is MUCH different than something being on the front home page that IS by a "official" rep of P4X4.

IF you really want to put a disclaimer at the top of the BB and every section saying the whole, "views and comments expressed by ........are not the official blah blah blah crap that is on every friggin DVD.
There have been other "review"s of products(seabass44's of the 10 + page plasma cutter one) and others. Come up with something and stick to it.

[Mean_Green]

or the other million threads overviewing products... thats why were here? to share experiances and ideas?