I've been toying with putting a simple MSD (like a MSD 5) on my motor (1.6L 8V running factory 1.3L EFI). I know the stock ignition is weak. When I first got the truck, I was surprised to find out the gap was only .028. I checked the plugs and they were worn out, in the .040 to .050 range. When I put in new plugs (at the correct gap) I gained significant HP at high RPM (at least 1000 rpm higher usable power)! That surprised me, and makes me question the strength of the stock ignition....

MSD says their unit hooks up to 'any' stock ignition. Has anyone done it on a EFI Sami? Did you run a stock coil? Did it make a performance improvement (top or bottom end)?

Not sure if you searched, but this has come up beore, several are running it. No me or id offer up some advice as such I dont have any important information to add other than use this

images/top_search.gif (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/search.php?s=)

this button... (not in the mood to give ya the friendly flipoff2


-yag

ok i actually searched and there was no info, or maybe the search is busted... "msd" showd nada!!.. oh well....maybe someone with actuall information can help..ill crawl back into my hole ....

Originally posted by zukipuke
Not sure if you searched, but this has come up beore, several are running it.

YES, I did search. There is a lengthy discussion on the MSD billet distributor, and one instance of a 'buzzing' MSD-6 on a carb'ed Sami... I'm looking for feedback on changing to an aftermarket ignition on an EFI Sami application.... The EFI ignition is a little different than the carb'ed one.

[edit] Correction, the buzzing MSD-6 post was in the Toy section..

Good question, I'd like to hear who's running what for ignition on a 1.3 EFI.

In my experience an MSD doesnt do much on an efficiently running engine like a stock EFI. Much more gain when you are running webers.

Originally posted by lojones
In my experience an MSD doesnt do much on an efficiently running engine like a stock EFI. Much more gain when you are running webers.

For a non racing applications, I fully beleive that the exotic ignitions don't have anything significant to gain over a good stock ignition. However, I doubt that the Sami EFI is a 'good stock' ignition. The only way to know is to put an aftermarket one on there and see if it makes it diff. I'm just not sure if I want to throw $100+ on a guess. Not to mention how cramped my under hood space is now.. :)

have you considered a basic GM HEI module?

a very simple hook up. 4 wires... 2 pick up coil (dist.) and coil, bat...+ ground base.. (new cost <$15 parts store) plus should trigger fine from the stock zuke dist. p/u... good dwell/sa.. upto ~6500rpm higher with cheep aftermarket (ie race car/circle track module)

Just bolt it to a small piece or alum. and add some heat sink grease so it wont burn up, ( or bolt to dist.. housing )... Hate to see ya spend $ with the HEI you can run a much bigger gap.. definitly start easier...


but than again if you want a rev limiter + ignition than msd is easier.... plus the msd looks cool...

-yag

Originally posted by zukipuke
have you considered a basic GM HEI module ...

Interesting idea. The magnetic pickup would be the trickiest part. Since the Sami dist drives the computer, I'd be concerned connecting the GM module to that signal. I would need some way to use the current coil signal to fire the GM module. That could be done with a transformer. However, does the GM module have a built in advance curve?

Humm, it may be worth doing some diggin' on that.... I've got the Sami manual at home, maybe it gives some info on the trigger ECM source from the distributor. Do you know of any good sources on the WEB for the GM module's signals?

Biggest expense would be coming up with a non dist cap mounted coil. I don't know if there would be any gain with the stock coil....

>>>Interesting idea. The magnetic pickup would be the trickiest part. Since the Sami dist drives the computer, I'd be concerned connecting the GM module to that signal. I would need some way to use the current coil signal to fire the GM module. That could be done with a transformer.

should work fine, got bro's old jeep working on it after the ford box pooped out... ford pick up have very small signal, zuke should be fine, internals of the hei module is basically 1 transister amplifiny the signal the kick a larger transiter (reason for heat sink)


>>> However, does the GM module have a built in advance curve?

well yes/no
no--
older ones no they rely on vacume advance + centrifigal advance (weights) to achieve advance. low vac = more advance

yes--
newer 5 prong modules (comp. controlled cars) rely on the computer to do the advanceing (hint hint) but have a default base, and a default "jump" at x rpm for fail back/ limp home mode if comp. breaks...

Various 5 prongers have different steps this is of importance for circle jerk (i mean track ) cars like the one my brother drives. Where you need 38 deg. or more timing, this makes for a hard startup but reaching 38 after a jump works great.. easier start ups...

anyways..... what does this mean for a zuke...

use an older cacume advance distributer. or inegrate a 5 pronger with the existing computer. (prolly not that hard)


>>>Humm, it may be worth doing some diggin' on that.... I've got the Sami manual at home, maybe it gives some info on the trigger ECM source from the distributor. Do you know of any good sources on the WEB for the GM module's signals?

i did a project on this in college ill see what papers i may still have.. and some side work for the race car stuff. bro has furtherd the effort on the 5 pronger stuff.. ill check with him to see where he's at....

>>>Biggest expense would be coming up with a non dist cap mounted coil. I don't know if there would be any gain with the stock coil....

open a jegs or summit catalog problem is prolly not in the coil anyway but the amount of juice thats put to the plugs, ie dwell/saturation #s

-yag

I ran it with my 1.3 and then for a short while with my 1.6

I found that you don't see the power until you go back to stock and it just doesn't quite have the gusto it did with the box hooked up.
I was running an MSD 6A box with a Blaster 2 coil and 8.8mm MSD wires. I kept burning out the unit, so I gave up.
I am now testing a set of Direct Hits from Roadless Gear and I have found more power than the MSD box ever gave me... Article should be on iZook at the end of the month with real numbers.

http://home.elp.rr.com/zook/images/eng_opt.jpg

Here are some links

240z hei add on/converison (http://www.zhome.com/ZCMnL/tech/gmhei.html)

this one has some pics and a lot of explanation of how/where to hook things up...

some other vette.. hei conversion stuff (http://www.customefis.com/GMEFIDIY.html)

lots of general stuff and info on programing your own tbi/ efi computers

do i smell a little 2.5l tbi setup..... ;-)

more hei wiring info .... easy to follow (http://www.sonic.net/~kyle/hei.html)


this should get you started...

-yag

Originally posted by zukipuke
this one has some pics and a lot of explanation of how/where to hook things up...
some other vette.. hei conversion stuff (http://www.customefis.com/GMEFIDIY.html)


I found this one yesterday... Custom reprogramming of a GM computer... Interesting, but off the topic for now. :)

They did have some good stuff on the 8 pin GM module.

I checked the book last night, Sami uses a hall effect pickup. Since any reluctance (coil) pickup would require biasing from the GM unit, I would definatly be concerned connecting the GM module directly to the dist and computer. The best bet would probably be to tie in at the Suzuki 'amplifier'. According to the manual, the Suzuki amplifier has two signals - Igt (trigger), and Igf (fail-safe). Anyone have any idea about the Igf? According to the book it's some kind of 'fail-safe' signal. Maybe a feedback of the coil signal to tell the computer all is working? Any guess on the Igt signal (rising or trailing edge)?

Ok, more work required... But it does sound interesting... :D

I think the MSD idea is out, too many stories of dead ones and NO where to put it under my hood.. :) The GM module is more promising.

Originally posted by billjohn
I am now testing a set of Direct Hits from Roadless Gear and I have found more power than the MSD box ever gave me... Article should be on iZook at the end of the month with real numbers.

Humm, the peaking cap idea is interesting. But, it's awfull expensive ($160 from their web page) for something that looks like..... well, I'll wait for the story.. :)

The GM, I can get in any part's store, idea sounds more promising...