All right I am sure it is heresy to you guys, but I am putting SII D44s under a Jeep Scrambler project as many have done before. I need pertinent opinions on a few things though.

1. What are the best ball-joints to use?
2. Are there any front brake upgrades?
3. Do I need a truss, as I will be running 38X12.50 TSLs?
4. I will be doing a SOA swap and am wondering what all of the angles should be like after I cut the knuckles, i.e. pinion angle and knuckle angle?
5. Who makes the best strong axles for the front and rear, Moser, Dutchman, Warn, ??? Prices??
6. What have you guys done for rear discs? TSM, AA-MFTG,??


Lastly, when disassembling the axle yesterday, one side had one of the "automatic" hubs and one had a basic bolt-on Warn hub. The side with the auto hub had a great way of locking the wheel bearing nut with this little collar with a set screw. Are these common, where can I get another one, and can I use this collar with regular Warn hubs??

Thanks for your help.

Originally posted by zachv


1. What are the best ball-joints to use?
2. Are there any front brake upgrades?
3. Do I need a truss, as I will be running 38X12.50 TSLs?
4. I will be doing a SOA swap and am wondering what all of the angles should be like after I cut the knuckles, i.e. pinion angle and knuckle angle?
5. Who makes the best strong axles for the front and rear, Moser, Dutchman, Warn, ??? Prices??
6. What have you guys done for rear discs? TSM, AA-MFTG,??
Thanks for your help.

1.MOOG
2. there is no need there fine the way they are!
3. IMO yes
4. Were scout guys ,how would we know what Pinion angle would work in a heep? 4-6 degrees of castor and you will be fine.
5. Warn then Dutchman, stay away from Moser and get CMTs
6. F150 rotors, GM mid calipers and brackets from A&A

1. I have heard that Spicers are better, but where can I get them??
2. Thanks.
3. Thanks.
4. Thanks, that is what I meant.
5. That surprises me-- it is the first time I have heard anyone not recommend Moser, but I will take it into consideration.
6. Thanks, that should be a lot cheaper. BTW, what year F-150 rotors and do i have to hog the inner diameter out? Also, where does the rotor sit in relation to the axle flange, inner or outer?

Any idea on the wheel bearing lock nut thingy?

Thanks.

Originally posted by zachv

5. That surprises me-- it is the first time I have heard anyone not recommend Moser, but I will take it into consideration.

Thanks.

Do a search in Gen4x4, most peps go Moser cuz there cheaper!

MOOG and dana/spicer are of the same quality.

F150 Rotor
Bendix #141214
Raybestos
#6048

it can go on either side. no hogging needed

You the man. Thanks for the info, I truly appreciate it. What I was meaning by the Spicer ball joints was that I heard recently that Spicer came out with a new line that was better than Moog and Dana. Has anyone heard this and where can I get these?

Originally posted by zachv
You the man. Thanks for the info, I truly appreciate it. What I was meaning by the Spicer ball joints was that I heard recently that Spicer came out with a new line that was better than Moog and Dana. Has anyone heard this and where can I get these?


LOL Spicer is Dana is the same company!

I think your thinking of the new 297x/530x joint from Spicer, but I could be wrong

Must be, Im not aware of any new balljoints. Then again, I've never really had a problem with moog balljoints

I run TRW HD ball-joints in my front end, with no complaints.. but then, I get a discount on 'em. :flipoff2: (just not on pistons, Sabelts, or the other goodies..)

Definitely truss the axles.. I'm afraid to take a straight-edge to my rear '44..

So far only one broken 30sp rear axle with the 36s.. but 4 teeth chipped on the R&P.

The stock front axle shafts have held up well thus far.. but then, I welded the caps to the yokes so they'd stay put, too.

This is what I was speaking of for the ball joints:
Spicer Chassis (http://www.spicerchassis.com/)

I have heard that they are different and separate from the Dana brand, which are basically Moog-type.

For the AA MFG bracket are you using part number 049-A? And do you have to build a "step" to move the bracket out or can it be welded right to the axle?

?

Originally posted by zachv


For the AA MFG bracket are you using part number 049-A?

The part number is AA-113-A. Just a little grinding is all that is required before welding to the axle tube. :D

Ahhh, that makes sense now that I see that those are for the smaller calipers. Thanks.

Front axle is where you have problems. If you're swapping, you've had problems with the stock Dana 30 front. The Scout 44 front still has a Dana 30 outter stub shaft with a 297 (44) u-joint in it. These commonly break under pressure. The locking hub style also tends to fail as the 6 bolts retaining the hubs work loose. The 6 bolts is all that is connecting your 36's to you r axle. Consider converting the outter knuckle assemblies with a Chevy or Wagoneer knuckle which also allows you to use the high steer adaptors available for Jeeps. Using a Ford rotor and bearing hub gives you the 5 on 5 1/2 wheel pattern, an internally splined locking hub whick is MUCH stronger than the bolt on style and you can run the Chevy, Wagoneer or Ford outter stub shaft which is a TRUE Dana 44 axle.
Just consider this...
Sean

Originally posted by slipscomb
Front axle is where you have problems. If you're swapping, you've had problems with the stock Dana 30 front. The Scout 44 front still has a Dana 30 outter stub shaft with a 297 (44) u-joint in it. These commonly break under pressure. The locking hub style also tends to fail as the 6 bolts retaining the hubs work loose. The 6 bolts is all that is connecting your 36's to you r axle. Consider converting the outter knuckle assemblies with a Chevy or Wagoneer knuckle which also allows you to use the high steer adaptors available for Jeeps. Using a Ford rotor and bearing hub gives you the 5 on 5 1/2 wheel pattern, an internally splined locking hub whick is MUCH stronger than the bolt on style and you can run the Chevy, Wagoneer or Ford outter stub shaft which is a TRUE Dana 44 axle.
Just consider this...
Sean

Yes but the weak link in the axle stub is still the ears/yoke of the axle. So tell me how many stubs have you broken or witnessed, since it is such a common event?

If you check your hubs during breaks you won't have a problem.

As far as the hi-steer, I'm running chebbie knuckles so no problem there.

Yes the Ford parts are stronger and better, but the stock Scout parts are working well for me and others.

My SII outers are holding fine with junk yard axles, lockers, and 36's

I'v never broken a stub. I'v riped the ears off of them and snaped the inners but not a stub. If your worried about the stub get a warn stub.

Not to offend anyone but it all depends on what you do with your truck. I have a box full of broken stubs right in the middle. Oddly, I have more broken stub shafts that ears but it did pose a problem for me. Set up has alot to do with it too. It seems I didn't start breaking shaft until I dropped the automatic and went with the 4-speed. Just couldn't get that auto to run upsidedown.

You're right, though. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. But it was a suggestion to a person who is planning an upgrade and only as an option. These are merely problems that I have had and have seen this trend developing among Scouts as the trails get harder and the drivers drive harder.

Sean

Originally posted by jdjanda

Yes the Ford parts are stronger and better, but the stock Scout parts are working well for me and others.


The hubs are stronger, the stubs are probably a wash (I think they're only "stronger" because of the internal hubs), but the SII brakes are better than the Ford.


My SII outers are holding fine with junk yard axles, lockers, and 36's

My (second set) of stock front 'shafts seem to be holding up with the 36s as well - better than the rear did.

(knock on wood) I've been running these front 'shafts since '99.

No problems since I put new U-joints in and welded the fawkers.

Yeah, once the ears start stretching the u-joint caps tend to just spit right out.

As far as the brakes, Scout uses a Ford style caliper and the rotor doesn't make a difference. The outter stub shaft of the Ford, Chevy, and Dodge are all the same and a bit larger in diameter and length than the stock Scout stub which still uses a dana 30 stub in a Dana 44. snapring locations differ between the fullsize stub due to differences in locking hubs.

Sean

Originally posted by slipscomb
Yeah, once the ears start stretching the u-joint caps tend to just spit right out.

As far as the brakes, Scout uses a Ford style caliper and the rotor doesn't make a difference.
Sean

Ford STYLE caliper, but a bigger piston on the Scout calipers.

Also, IIRC, the Scout II rotors are thicker and vented - more of a heat sink than the Ford rotors..

Originally posted by slipscomb
.....than the stock Scout stub which still uses a dana 30 stub in a Dana 44.

Hey DAN we know :rolleyes: but thanks for the lesson. Now back to the tech. You want to stop the caps for coming out, welded em, or run full circle.

Joe

So is the stub the same size as a 30 :flipoff2:

Originally posted by jdjanda


So is the stub the same size as a 30 :flipoff2:

I'll add that I USED to think this was true.. until I tried put my Dana 30 stub on my Dana 44 inner.. bzzzt.

If it's a '74 or newer D44 with the 297 joint, the D30 stubs won't work.. you need D44 stubs, with a 297 joint.

Sure, they're still 27spline.. so what?

If you follow the blind thought that more splines are better, then the 27sp Scout stub must be lots stronger than a 19sp Chevy stub.. I mean, what kind of POS uses 19spline anything these days? :flipoff2:

Even Ford uses 28 splines on the 9"..

Someone measure the diameter of a Scout 44 stub. I'd like to know the spline diameter, and also the diameter of any necked down portions.

Originally posted by Ben W
Someone measure the diameter of a Scout 44 stub. I'd like to know the spline diameter, and also the diameter of any necked down portions.

I'll try to remember when I get home tonight..

Got a pair of SII 'shafts in the Scout for trail spares, and a set of Chevy 'shafts for spares for the race rig - until I get the HP44 built..

Originally posted by jdjanda


Yes but the weak link in the axle stub is still the ears/yoke of the axle. So tell me how many stubs have you broken or witnessed, since it is such a common event?

If you check your hubs during breaks you won't have a problem.

As far as the hi-steer, I'm running chebbie knuckles so no problem there.

Yes the Ford parts are stronger and better, but the stock Scout parts are working well for me and others.

My SII outers are holding fine with junk yard axles, lockers, and 36's

http://www.nwbinders.net/Tech/HubConversion/SnappedAxleStub.JPG

http://www.nwbinders.net/Roundup/2000Roundup/TrailRun/IsabelleHooperBlownHubWheel.jpg

But then, the speed bumps outside of the mall are really tall up here, so you guys probably won't have this problem.

33 x 12.50's, only 3.54 in the axles, D20, and an auto.... Yeah, those stub shafts break....

Scout D44 stub shaft diameter (splined area) 1.160" (external hubs)
1.055" between splines and bearing surface
1.315" at bearing surface

Dodge D44 stub shaft diameter (splined area) 1.25" (internal hubs)
1.125" between splines and bearing surface
1.315" at bearing surface