I drove the FTOY briefly this weekend, and I feel it is getting HORRIBLE fuel mileage. I drove it approx 20 miles and used 3/4 of a tank of propane. It is a 33# tank that was just filled before I left for the trail. I'm figuring it as 6 gallons in 20 miles... Thats ~3.3MPG. I could have put a built Big Block in it and had lots of power and got better mileage than this.

Is this normal? Is there any ways to tweak this to improve it's mileage?

Something else is going on.

Your post about overheating and now poor mileage something is up.
Call Cary @ gotpropane.com

The gauges on the tanks aren't really that accurate. Only real way to know is to drive a tank out. I had a tank that was pretty much on E and I rode 1.5 days at tellico on that tank alone.

Is this one of my kits?

Cary, yes, this is your kit. I called you on Friday and you told me to check the timing. I put a second fan on the rad, changed the thermostat, rad cap, etc. Still overheating.

I am running the see thru tanks, so I can see how much propane I have used. I marked it at the full mark (on the end of the tank) and after driving it the ~20 miles, (I started it and shut it off a bunch while working on the heating problem) it is now about 2" above the bottom of the tank.

We are thinking the timing may have jumped a tooth, so it may be off. Going to pull the cover tonight. This would explain the heating problem, but not sure about the mileage.
We were going to drive the Poison Spider/Gold Spike/Gold Bar Rim trail in Moab last Friday (about 34 miles total), but I would have used both tanks and had to be towed back to town with how fast I was going thru the tanks. I ran it in the Turbo'd Runner instead and used about 2 gallons.

I run the 10 gal tanks. Takes almost two days at the hammers to go thru 1 tank. In the Sierras a friends odometer said we went 77 miles on one tank. I had some really bad timing issues at the Jambo and still didn't burn as much propane as you said.

I run the 10 gal tanks. Takes almost two days at the hammers to go thru 1 tank. In the Sierras a friends odometer said we went 77 miles on one tank. I had some really bad timing issues at the Jambo and still didn't burn as much propane as you said.

X2
I run the 33lb tank. A solid 2 days wheeling on a tank is the norm.

John had the same problem. You have a leak or you're way too rich. The mixture screw is backward from what you're used to. Are your heater hoses warm?, if not, it's mixture, too rich.

Lean running engine will run hot. If you have a vapor leak either in the regulator, vapor line or mixer I can see that causing both problems. Got any detail pics of the propane setup? You are using a vac advance dist right?

Did we discuss how to lean it out? Or just the overheating? Maybe give me another shout again if you can:beer:

Lean running engine will run hot. If you have a vapor leak either in the regulator, vapor line or mixer I can see that causing both problems. Got any detail pics of the propane setup? You are using a vac advance dist right?

I am running the dist from the carbed 85. I will take some pics of the propane setup tonight. The regulator is mounted horizontal at the firewall, with the 2 heater hoses running directly from the block to the regulator. When I was first getting the wiring figured out and actually drove it, I didn't have any coolant in the system and the regulator frosted up and it didn't run very well. When it was over heating last weekend, you couldn't touch the regulator because it was so hot.

I checked for leaks at all the connections and the only one I had was between the filter and the solenoid. After fixing that and plugging my vaccum lines, it ran. I haven't messed with any of the settings on the mixer, except the large screw, which was only held in by a few threads (the spring wasn't tight against the base), which I screwed in all the way and then backed out until the throttle response sounded right. No other adjustments have been made except to the idle screw on the carb base.

I am running the dist from the carbed 85. I will I haven't messed with any of the settings on the mixer, except the large screw, which was only held in by a few threads (the spring wasn't tight against the base), which I screwed in all the way and then backed out until the throttle response sounded right. No other adjustments have been made except to the idle screw on the carb base.

This is the same thing I did when I was trying to get my rig running the first time, exactly what Todd was talking about. The mixture screw is opposite of what you think it should be. This could be your Overheating problem as well, If it is running way too rich?? Put your mixture screw back to where Cary sent it to you, and it will probably solve all your problems.
The first time I ran my rig just testing everything (not on the trail, but in my driveway) I went thru 1/2 tank of propane and my mixer was frosted over, once I got the timing figured out and the mixture right it ran like a champ.

Jon

So how does one know when they have the "right" mixture?

So how does one know when they have the "right" mixture?

I dunno, Let us know if you find it....
I have mine tuned by ear and smell.. I know that sounds weird but... People driving behind me have noticed a significant difference when a propane rig is tuned right and when it isn't, just ask Offroad Joe:p
You have to drive it to know the difference. There is a significant difference in power with the right timing and propane mixture..

I get a strong smell at times, and I seem to go through a tank on a light day of wheeling. But only had heating issues the first time I took the buggy out. Stock fan, no shroud.

Would it matter what mixer is being used? I'm using the NJ or from what I can remember thats model mixer I have. Awhile back Gotpropane told me it would just limit my top end, but I seem to have better performance in higher speeds. Or is the model E mixer the best to run on our motors?

Cary will a wide band o2 sensor work well in propane? Don't really want to sacrifice one of my sensors to confirm.

Cary will a wide band o2 sensor work well in propane? Don't really want to sacrifice one of my sensors to confirm.

Could the fact that I am not running an O2 sensor be the issue? I had no place to plug it in to, so I didn't hook it up.

Did we discuss how to lean it out? Or just the overheating? Maybe give me another shout again if you can:beer: It might be too rich also

:beer:

It might be too rich also

:beer:

Chris give Propane Cary a call. His kits are top notch, something's wrong with your rig!

something's wrong with your rig!

Ya, its got bent springs already, the pass front tire hits the pass floor at full compression, and the front locker doesn't work...:flipoff2:

Could the fact that I am not running an O2 sensor be the issue? I had no place to plug it in to, so I didn't hook it up.

Maveric sorry that question had absolutely nothing to do with your rig and I probably should have sent Cary a pm. You have no use for o2 sensor at all.

Damn, and I was hoping for a quick fix too. :D

Quick fix=call me:D

will a wide band o2 sensor work well in propane?

Yes.

Heres some AFR Tech. "Optimum" AFR's for different fuels.
Gasoline 14.7
LPG (Propane) 15.5
Methanol 6.4
Ethanol 9.0
CNG 17.2
Diesel 14.6

Kiwi

Ya, its got bent springs already, the pass front tire hits the pass floor at full compression, and the front locker doesn't work...:flipoff2:

Yeah and somethings wrong with the propane adjustments pretty bad too!

Yes.

Heres some AFR Tech. "Optimum" AFR's for different fuels.
Gasoline 14.7
LPG (Propane) 15.5
Methanol 6.4
Ethanol 9.0
CNG 17.2
Diesel 14.6

Kiwi

Cool. Thanks!! I'll add an o2 bung to my next rig. Where did that info come from?

Cool. Thanks!! I'll add an o2 bung to my next rig. Where did that info come from?


Innovate Motorsports. heres a link.
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/

You can buy there lc-1 kit w/controller, analog guage and bosch wide band o2, for as little as $230 on ebay.

After running them on My wierd shit, I'll never tune again without one.

Kiwi

Ok, the problem is back. Maybe it never went away. I took it out again this weekend and it's still sucking the pane.

Here is what I have done since the last time:

1) Changed the radiator to another 82, 2-core rad.
2) Reset the timing (it was off a tooth)
3) Put in a new thermostat
4) Flushed the rad and engine block
5) Contacted Cary, who helped me tweak the mixer
6) 5.29's from 4.10's

I have ran 2 comps as well as 2 8+ hour difficult wheeling trips to the local off-road park. I burned about 1/2 a tank per wheeling trip, and ran both comps (2 days each) on one tank.

However, this weekend I put 52 miles on the toy, and burned an ENTIRE tank. I had to be towed back to camp.

It seemed better after the above mentioned tweaks, but doesn't seem to have fixed it.

It also had some serious overheating issues again. When I get back in town, think I'll call Cary again. Not sure what the problem is, but it's getting real old. Sounds like it is running WAY rich, because of the amount of fuel burned, but the heating is usually from running lean, correct???

Have you looked close at you thermostat? You might have 2 seperate problems.Toyota's are famous for thermostat problems. I modify all of mine by drilling an 1/8" hole in the flat part of the t-stat as well as cutting out the little brass plug from the other bleed hole.

Not sure about the thermostat. I put a new one in it last year when I was putting it together. (actually in Moab, but still last year) We still had the heating problem, so we pulled it back out and put the original one in after gutting it. It didn't help. When I changed everything out (radiator, etc) I couldn't find the new one, so I bought another one. THe newest one in addition to the radiator seemed to fix the problem. I will be pulling the waterpump this weekend or early next week. It may not be the problem, but I want to rule it out. While I have the rad drained, I will mod the thermostat. THanks for the idea.

BTW, congrats on the championship. Wish we could have made the last event. Next year:D

hey whats up maveric?!
maybe something else is wrong?
i spent 7 day's at bfe and ran through
2- 8 gal tanks
i run a stock fan-
has the head on your toy ever
been replaced?
wouldn't that matter?
as far as a leak?
i can smell it on my rig when i start, but once i start running-nothing

Sorry to bear the bad news,

Propane not only gets worse gase mileage, you lose up to 20% in power

Even with a special engine made for it with 12:1 compression, still gets terrible mileage. Just good for rock crawling.

I have the Suzuki setup on my 1.6 samurai, terrible on the road, maybe 13mpg

My FTOY sucks through alot with the 12:1 stroker LC engine.

Once again, good idle and easy setup. I will not use propane again. Good old 90 octane gas burners are better.


Oh, ya I bought a wideband oxygen sensor from LCE and hooked it up. With mixture fully screwed in Rich it runs at 10:1 at idle and 15.4:1 at full throttle.
15:1 -18:1 is ideal propane hmm, not so high tech of a system.

2 cents

Maveric,

(1) I know you have checked the cooling,But have you checked
the Valves" compression test" to see if the over heating/bad milage,
Could be the problem.

(2) Radiator cap Bad? Have you done a pressure test on your rig's cooling
system.

I am getting aprox 80 miles to each 33# tank ,I have spoke with Cary on
Tuning both the systems on my trucks and they both work great,Call him
and have him explain how to tune your kit,it might help on how rich
it's running.