I don't own a set of rockwells;but,I have seen in a few posts that people have a broken some of theses axle shafts and spoken of them like they were weak . My question is are they actually that weak? How common is it to break one these axle shafts even with 44 inch tires? As common as breaking 60F shafts...just wondering

Well I only know of one guy that breaks them. He runs 44's with 500 or 600hp, and has a lead foot. Let's just say that I think any axle would break under his rig. <IMG SRC="smilies/wink.gif" border="0">

I think somebody should take both a dana 60 shaft, and a rockwell shaft, and see which has greater strength. Is there a way to test the rockwell hardness (as in steel strength) without breaking the axleshaft.

I know the rockwell has more diameter, but the 60 may have the edge in that it could be better metal and/or forged differently.

Is there a way to test the rockwell hardness (as in steel strength) without breaking the axleshaft.

A Rockwell Hardness tester will not destroy the shaft being tested. The worst it may do is leave a small dimple where the test was done.

There is no doubt in my mind and I hope no one elses damn mind of wich axle is stronger...lol.just put 44" tires on a 60 and bounce it on the side of a hill a few times and it will be broke that should tell right there with no fancy test.Ohh yeah here is a link that has some numbers for you..
Here are some #'s. Hope this helps you some.

inc."http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=278004&highlight=rockwell


"The 2 1/2 ton U joint style, max. static load is 3,600 foot lbs. of torque. The convel model "E" used in the 2 1/2 ton is 4,310 foot lbs. of torque. The rezepa is estimated 10% to 15% weaker than the U joint style. Just for grins the dana 60 - 1480 in the steering axle is 2,000 foot lbs. of torque. I like BIG stuff. steve differential eng.

Theres a guy here in OKC with a CJ5 on rockwells and 49's. I remember him posting up how he has broken several rears and some fronts.

Im sure he might chime in, hes runs with the C.O.R.E. boys out of the OKC area.

BTW If anyone has any broken rears, please let me know. I'd be willing to pay postage and hassle fee if anyone wanted to cut off the mounting flange and send it out my way - these help with tire wear on the M35 - basically turns em into a single screw with dummy tandem axle.

Thanks
Bob

BTW If anyone has any broken rears, please let me know. I'd be willing to pay postage and hassle fee if anyone wanted to cut off the mounting flange and send it out my way - these help with tire wear on the M35 - basically turns em into a single screw with dummy tandem axle.

Thanks
Bob
just get some caps off the front

Yeah the drive plates for the rear are sort of spendy, although I do have some laying around. :)

I actually made some "Dummy hubs" for the front of my deuce.... just trying to save myself some effort.

Check them out:

http://www.planetbantz.com/imghost/bob/deuce_lockout.jpg

Fully TIG welded, and finished at 2AM before a 6 AM flight to the DRMO for pickup. :)

Cheers
Bob

but i dont think there is a way to test the hardness of metal, all i know is i have heard complaints about splines stripping out of a stock rockwell shaft, and have never heard bad things about a 60.

I talked to some ATPA pro truck pullers once who said they never busted a 60 stock stub shaft despite running 600-700 plus horsepower motors. My guess is because they are running in a straight line which is not common in this hobby. In the rock crawling ERR........rockracing world there are several weaknesses with a 60 front (mostly axleshaft related).The ears on a STOCK 60 shaft are not hardened and are soft metal which distorts easily. 2) 30 spline stub axles suck a@# 3) older style "taper down" inners are crap 4) Stock -ujoints (older stlye that are not cold forged) break pretty easy compounding number 1. If tghey are the newer cold forged style or CTMS the ears rip off the axleshaft. 5) Ford knuckles are prone to cracking around the kingpin.5) Dodge 60's use small bolts in the top of the housing to hold the passenger side ubolt plate in place that are commonly broken (actually the chevys break despite being bigger as well). Search the board and you will find out all kinds of stuff.

I can't believe that no one has commented on the fact that this thread is three years old, and now, Brian, who asked the origonal question on rockwells now has two rigs with them :flipoff2:

Justin

Lol..I seen that just figured everyone wanted to keep talking about it...honestly :flipoff2:

Lol, I was surprised it took as long as it did for someone to catch the thread date. I just hate it when you find a thread that sounds interesting, or a thread with a similar question to what you are looking for, only to find nothing has been resolved.

What I was really hoping for was actual number as to the strength of the rockwell shafts vs. 60 shafts; u-joints not included.

I can't believe that no one has commented on the fact that this thread is three years old, and now, Brian, who asked the origonal question on rockwells now has two rigs with them :flipoff2:

Justin
Justin I was suspised when I saw that someone had dug up this thread. 3 years later and I have two built rigs ( actually one is really no longer) with rockwells points out which I believe is stronger.. :)

Lol, I was surprised it took as long as it did for someone to catch the thread date. I just hate it when you find a thread that sounds interesting, or a thread with a similar question to what you are looking for, only to find nothing has been resolved.

What I was really hoping for was actual number as to the strength of the rockwell shafts vs. 60 shafts; u-joints not included.

I would say that from "my own experience" that the rockwell shafts are stronger as I have never broken one and I broke a ton of 60 front shafts in the same vehicle that now has rockwells.Certainly it is possible to break a rockwell shaft as there are many people who have and I have personally witnessed a shaft failure although not in my vehicle. Back in 2001 when I presented this thread it was mistekenly common for people to say the shafts were "weak". At that time most people who had experience with them were monster truck builders or people who wanted pseudo-monster trucks. The people in the actual monster truck areas had already long abandoned them for numerous reasons besides suppossed weak shafts. It is true that OLDER style shafts that hold the old Rezepa and Bendix joints are brittle. However, the u-joint style shafts are hardened just like 60 shafts. In todays world common breakage of rockwell shafts often times is related to vehicles with lots of motor and 48 inch plus tires. If you want break a rockwell shaft fast slap a set of 52-54's on a pair of rockwells with a motor that can turn them over..Although it is possible to break them with 44's I think we all know nothing is unbreakable.
From this we could conclude that if someone like Steve Gerstner knew what type of material a rockwell shaft was made from then the question you asked could be answered as the material of a stock dana shaft has been covered here before. In the end it is likely academic as real world wheeling, at least for me and people I know running them in this part of the world, have already answered the practical/functional side to this question.
For fun what would be interesting to know is what is the breaking point for a TRB MAchine shaft or an Ouverson Enginering shaft and if anyone has managed to break one either in rockracing or in the mud world. :D

Rockwell axles are pretty tough compared to Dana on road stuff. At lease in my experience.

Rockwell Axles (http://www.associatedcrane.com)

Ummmmm....Ya know the post was dead 3 years ago. :shaking:

Ummmmm....Ya know the post was dead 3 years ago. :shaking:


and 3 before that, too:shaking:

Ummmmm....Ya know the post was dead 3 years ago. :shaking:

Harassing a nOObie for searching:confused:, oooooookay.:shaking:

RoyalDirtSurfer is a spamming shithead... he's been digging up a few Rockwell threads and posting that link adding nothing of value. :shaking:

All my frineds bought in to the rockwell thing and the do nothing but snap shafts.

All my frineds bought in to the rockwell thing and the do nothing but snap shafts.


Anything more vague? Give us some specs and what they were doing. :confused:

In the mud I've mainly seen 'em brake when pulling out someone stuck.

the last 4 months i have broken the short side inner shaft on my rear axle(its a front) on every trip out..i have just about exhausted my spare reserves. once i do i will be stepping up to 2" stuff..i wheeled all last year with 44's, and about 300hp, and beat the hell out of the buggy with no axle breakage..this year i stepped up to 49's and about 100 extra HP..first 5 months the rocks took the abuse, but here lately i've been cautious just putting it on the trailer to go wheeling..

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c254/fl-krawler/carnage001.jpg

the last 4 months i have broken the short side inner shaft on my rear axle(its a front) on every trip out..i have just about exhausted my spare reserves. once i do i will be stepping up to 2" stuff..i wheeled all last year with 44's, and about 300hp, and beat the hell out of the buggy with no axle breakage..this year i stepped up to 49's and about 100 extra HP..first 5 months the rocks took the abuse, but here lately i've been cautious just putting it on the trailer to go wheeling..

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c254/fl-krawler/carnage001.jpg


Talking about something coming back from the dead....
Fl-Krawler's post is exactly what I was talking about nearly 4 years ago..Axleshaft failure on rig weighing 5800 pounds with 49 inch tires, beating the piss out of it. At this point stock shaft failure is not a question;but, inevitable.

Everything has its limits. FL-Krawler, put a d60 in the rear of your rig and see how well it holds up! I bet if you got o Ouverson 2" shafts you'll start breaking something else.

J. J.

A Rockwell shaft is not that strong stock but how many times have you heard of a broken r and p even with 2"ers.

I'm still curious where that magic number is where stock shafts start breaking. I wanted to pick up some 49's to run, but was worried about breaking stuff with my V8 in the rocks... even though the YJ is still fairly light. I have a feeling I will be above the breakage curve with my 42 Irok's, probably not seeing much breakage if any, but at the cost of ground clearance. But then again, I haven't mounted everything up... hopefully with the mohawking, this ground clearance issue becomes a non-issue.

Once you mohawk a rockwell the clearance is somewhere better than a d60 and slightly worse than a d44. You wouldn't worry about clearance with 42's and a 60, and especially not 42's and a d44. So what are you worried about with the rockwell?

I've got 42's on my rockwell. Never have been denied due to ground clearance. I'm thinking about 44's just for the badd-ass-ness. My buggy is probably about as light as they come with rockwells though. I don't worry about shafts either. I guess that may be because I have Ouverson shafts int he rear and a spare set for the front. But I pound on the bitch pretty damn hard.

J. J.

The stock shafts are pretty strong, I never even twisted the splines in mine, let alone break them, and I had 49's, a big block, and an 8500 lbs rig, but I am sure that over time the shafts would eventually give out, I cant see anyone having a problem with the stock 16 spline ouverson replacement shafts, far superior to stock, and doesnt he offer a warranty with them? dont remember that part :shaking:

but as far as numbers go, I dont ever remember seeing anything about actual breakage numbers, on either side

Back when I was buying my 16-spline Ouverson shafts I asked him if anyone had ever broken any of his shafts. (I'll ask his forgiveness in advance if he told me this in confidence, but I only say it here because I see it as a testament to his quality and workmanship.) He said that two shafts, out of over 1000 sets sold, of the 16-spliners had ever even twisted. They were both in heavy rigs with healthy big blocks and 47"+ tires under full thorttle conditions. This was about a year ago, but at that time NOT ONE 16-SPLINE OUVERSON SHAFTS HAD EVER BROKEN! Then I asked him about his 2" shafts. NO BREAKS OR TWISTS EVER in those, over 1000 sets sold!

Shortly after that, I looked up the term "bad-ass mother fucker" in the dictionary. Right after the photo of Samual L Jackson from Pulp Fiction it had an Ouverson Engineering emblem.

J. J.

Once you mohawk a rockwell the clearance is somewhere better than a d60 and slightly worse than a d44. You wouldn't worry about clearance with 42's and a 60, and especially not 42's and a d44. So what are you worried about with the rockwell?

That's been my mindset when purchasing them, but like I said, I haven't even got wheels on mine yet to even measure things for myself. I have been reading through the old threads for a while now... guys like you that are actually running them and posting up, made up my mind to go for it. However, weeding through the old threads, from what I can only think are people who have never run them, had me questioning a 42 mounted up. I, for whatever reason, had in my mind that a 46", if someone made one, would be a nice height.

I've got 42's on my rockwell. Never have been denied due to ground clearance. I'm thinking about 44's just for the badd-ass-ness. My buggy is probably about as light as they come with rockwells though. I don't worry about shafts either. I guess that may be because I have Ouverson shafts int he rear and a spare set for the front. But I pound on the bitch pretty damn hard.

J. J.

The stock shafts are pretty strong, I never even twisted the splines in mine, let alone break them, and I had 49's, a big block, and an 8500 lbs rig, but I am sure that over time the shafts would eventually give out, I cant see anyone having a problem with the stock 16 spline ouverson replacement shafts, far superior to stock, and doesnt he offer a warranty with them? dont remember that part :shaking:

but as far as numbers go, I dont ever remember seeing anything about actual breakage numbers, on either side

I'll definitely be migrating to the OEM stuff, I'm just changing out so much stuff right now, that it's just out of the budget. Doesn't stop me from visiting and window shopping the website though. :p

Everything has its limits. FL-Krawler, put a d60 in the rear of your rig and see how well it holds up! I bet if you got o Ouverson 2" shafts you'll start breaking something else.

J. J.


thats alright, i'll pass.:flipoff2:. i am in NO WAY bitching about my axles breaking... i used to drive like i was driving miss daisy, and everything held up no problem.. seems as if the more seat time i get though, the heavier my foot has gotten as well, and i am getting less and less concerned about what might happen pushing the buggy to its limits. i drive like a 'tard sometimes and i know it..

the place i normally wheel, is all algea covered limerock, that is usually damp.. it requirs ALOT of wheelspeed to get up and over some of the climbs and boulders we play on..

Back when I was buying my 16-spline Ouverson shafts I asked him if anyone had ever broken any of his shafts. (I'll ask his forgiveness in advance if he told me this in confidence, but I only say it here because I see it as a testament to his quality and workmanship.) He said that two shafts, out of over 1000 sets sold, of the 16-spliners had ever even twisted. They were both in heavy rigs with healthy big blocks and 47"+ tires under full thorttle conditions. This was about a year ago, but at that time NOT ONE 16-SPLINE OUVERSON SHAFTS HAD EVER BROKEN! Then I asked him about his 2" shafts. NO BREAKS OR TWISTS EVER in those, over 1000 sets sold!

Shortly after that, I looked up the term "bad-ass mother fucker" in the dictionary. Right after the photo of Samual L Jackson from Pulp Fiction it had an Ouverson Engineering emblem.

J. J.

You in marketing :flipoff2:? That can be a good slogan for OEM..."almost as bad ass mother fuckers as Sam L Jackson"!

Good news on the 16 spline OEM Upgrade...that's what I plan on going for...

[QUOTE=patooyee;7555192
Shortly after that, I looked up the term "bad-ass mother fucker" in the dictionary. Right after the photo of Samual L Jackson from Pulp Fiction it had an Ouverson Engineering emblem.

J. J.[/QUOTE]


:lmao: funniest damn quote I have seen in a awhile...

Once you mohawk a rockwell the clearance is somewhere better than a d60 and slightly worse than a d44. You wouldn't worry about clearance with 42's and a 60, and especially not 42's and a d44. So what are you worried about with the rockwell?

I've got 42's on my rockwell. Never have been denied due to ground clearance. I'm thinking about 44's just for the badd-ass-ness. My buggy is probably about as light as they come with rockwells though. I don't worry about shafts either. I guess that may be because I have Ouverson shafts int he rear and a spare set for the front. But I pound on the bitch pretty damn hard.

J. J.
I shaved my rockwell diffs, cut a 7" circle from them. On 42's I have better clearance to the diff than my cousin with 42's and a d44.

I've broken lots of stock shafts, taking out detroits, carriers, and spindles in the process, pics are of one of my favorite breaks. I'm also responsible for twisting one of Randy's 16 spline replacements, it was one of the billet machined axles before he went with the forged stuff...beautiful piece of work. It wasn't easy and you can't get better product support from anybody. I've dropped his 2 inchers and mini spool in the rear and don't think its at all possible to hurt them...weak link is somewhere else. I'm working on finding where...

Good news on the 16 spline OEM Upgrade...that's what I plan on going for...
That's what i will do, replace shafts with ouverson 16 spline replacements IF they break.

6k lb rig, front axle, tired 454 42" iroks.

http://www.southbaycustoms.com/fullsizejeeps/rockwell/DSC02627.JPG

You can take a piece of steel and stress a little big for a long time, or you can stress it a lot for a short time. The key is going just a hair stronger than your motor and tranny can possible stress it, and it will last litteraly forever. But I know that's no fun, let's face it it is fun to push everything to it's failure point, were all sick in the head.
Late
sandman69

in the words of my friend peter (and all of my friends who stole his slogan). go big, or go home.

and what the hell are you doing if you're not running balls to the wall at all times? i can answer that, you're not running rocks under your rig.

44's seem to be the magic number for stock shafts and any motor. 49's seem to be the magic number for ouverson 16 splines and whatever you want under the hood.

as a soldier in the army dealing with the problems we have with our equipment and trucks the only real problems we really have with the trucks are engine problems the rest of the trucks seem to hold up well i can say that everything the army has is made by the lowest bidder (the person willing to make and sell the product the cheapest) but even still the axles are heavy strong axles but because they are made cheap and as fast as possible there are going to be flaws which can lead to breaks once you get a new shaft you shouldnt have a problem with them breaking again unless your doing some trucks gone wild stuff! or are doing something that consists of high impact!

TRUCKSGONEWILD.COM check it out

toyotas=39's=no break 60's=42's=no break rockwells=44's=break.toys come with 28's 60's come with 31's rockwells come with 42's.look at the tire jump and tell me that they are stronger?

sure, out of the box you can't throw a tire on a rock that is 11" taller and be fine. but go out and build a toy axle, then build a 60, then build a rock. see which one is the strongest and cheapest? i'm going to have to vote rockwell. randy's shit is the bomb. i guarantee that his 16 spline shafts won't let you down. (and hell, if you got the money for the horsepower to make them let you down then you should have bought the 2"ers the first time...)

edit, i'm 100% sure that you can't throw 39s on a toy, or 42s on a 60 and beat it as hard as you can beat a rock with 44s.
and most rocks come with 54" mich's to drive on the road. so...maybe you should reconsider your numbers. my source of information about what most rocks have on them comes from my friend who just got back from his 4th tour in afganistan and he was a heavy equipment operator over there. so he drove truck a lot.

i never broke a front or rear 16 spline shaft with 39s or even wore out 44s. i broke quite a few rears with new 44s. i broke 8 shafts in a 9 month period with 47s. my truck weighs in at 7800 lbs and i cant drive worth a shit so i just use my throttle. i did twist up a set of oversons stock spline chromolys in the rear, real bad. if the where stock they would have definitly been broke. randy warranted for me just like he said he would. now im running the stock chromolys up front and the 2" in the rear and everything else is breaking including my radio, but i don't think i can break those axles. i just switched to 49s and dropped a stroker motor in because i so confident in those axles.

toyotas=33's=no break 60's=37's=no break rockwells=44's=no break.

Edited to match my experience with the respective axles with my friends and the way we wheel. My brother has stripped out ring and pinions on toy axles with 35's, I have a friend who brakes chromo 35-spline 60 shafts and strips out ring and pinions with 40's on a fairly regular basis. Sure, I've seen rockwell shafts break with 44's after heavy heavy abuse but certainly not on a regular basis and you just won't see a rockwell strip a gearset with 44's. I would run 44's with stock shafts and never worry personally. I drive so far to get anywhere to wheel though I run Randy's shafts front and rear just for that extra piece of mind.

Fact of the matter though is that you can build a set of Rockwells with all aftermarket parts like you would a 60 or a Toy axle and the rockwell will handle anything you throw at it. Even a built 60 or Toy has a limit.

J. J.

It's never ending. Ouverson is the shit no questions asked. I got his 2" front and back. And his u-joints in the rear. But now with a broken pinion gear a while back and now a just discovered bull gear broke after TTC it looks like I will be giving him more money. He is the one vendor that I do not hesitate buying shit from because I know it will be the best. New gearset in my future and a new straight housing:shaking:

How about the fact that most swapped in D60s and Rockwells are anywhere from 25-40 years old and most were used as work trucks that were abused for most of thier lives. Any axle can only twist so many times. To compare apples to apples, put a new 300M D60 against a new 300M 47 spline rockwell and there will be no contest.

How about the fact that most swapped in D60s and Rockwells are anywhere from 25-40 years old and most were used as work trucks that were abused for most of thier lives. Any axle can only twist so many times. To compare apples to apples, put a new 300M D60 against a new 300M 47 spline rockwell and there will be no contest.
I'm 99.9% certain that Ouverson rock shafts are not 300m or were you just using that as a theoretical?

J. J.

it all go's back to all the other parts that drwarf a 60 like the knuckle's, housing, gear strenght and ratio. they do have draw back ( Like im figuring out now ) is there massive up-travle in the chunk.
i got a buggy chasise from a friend and the front is not rockwell friendly. i can make it happen but its true when peaple say you need to build and design the chassie around the chunk.
axle strength is also U-joint strength and agin a the rocks have a massive U-joint, this is another plus.

i like them for what they are or well for they were when i got them like 6 years ago. cheap axle's that can live up to 44's and a decent motor with a nice set of low gears, factory.

jason.

I'm 99.9% certain that Ouverson rock shafts are not 300m or were you just using that as a theoretical?

J. J.

Yes, just trying to point out that the history of used components has a lot to do with thier future. And that the size alone of a rockwell makes it that much stronger.

Yes, just trying to point out that the history of used components has a lot to do with thier future. And that the size alone of a rockwell makes it that much stronger.
True.

J. J.

It's never ending. Ouverson is the shit no questions asked. I got his 2" front and back. And his u-joints in the rear. But now with a broken pinion gear a while back and now a just discovered bull gear broke after TTC it looks like I will be giving him more money. He is the one vendor that I do not hesitate buying shit from because I know it will be the best. New gearset in my future and a new straight housing:shaking:



Never repair......Always upgrade:smokin:
I'm even more content with my decision after hearing that though;)