ok i got my stuff to make the upper like now and need to look at my tracbar options. i have the clayton long arm kit and decided to ditch the upper links for the radius arms and use a piece or 2x2 square 1/4" wall and use curries 2 1/2" joints, one threaded 1.25" 5/8" hole and one weld on. now i made a tracbar and used 7/8" heims with 3/4" hole and now was thinking about making one out of johnny joints but dont think im going to have enough room and im also decided on what kinda steering i wanna run. i was thinking with johnnys it might ride a lil bit better but its no big deal if i cant use them. i would really like to see some pics of some mounts on the axle end and the body side. this is under a 99 xj with a 60 and 14 bolt with 37" and will be drove on the road alot. i plan to stay with 37's maybe some 38x14.50 trxus mt's a lil later. any pics will help so thanks::rolleyes:

Go with the heims, much easier to package, if you need to. My track bar is 1 5/8"x3/16" wall 4130, no problems yet. I bent my mounts pretty solid, and no issues with my bar or 7/8" heims.

Re-use the original mounting holes if you can, I didnt at first and my unibody was pulling apart. I could hear it flexing and cracking on the trail.

ok i got my stuff to make the upper like now and need to look at my tracbar options. i have the clayton long arm kit and decided to ditch the upper links for the radius arms and use a piece or 2x2 square 1/4" wall and use curries 2 1/2" joints, one threaded 1.25" 5/8" hole and one weld on. now i made a tracbar and used 7/8" heims with 3/4" hole and now was thinking about making one out of johnny joints but dont think im going to have enough room and im also decided on what kinda steering i wanna run. i was thinking with johnnys it might ride a lil bit better but its no big deal if i cant use them. i would really like to see some pics of some mounts on the axle end and the body side. this is under a 99 xj with a 60 and 14 bolt with 37" and will be drove on the road alot. i plan to stay with 37's maybe some 38x14.50 trxus mt's a lil later. any pics will help so thanks::rolleyes:

Here is my setup: 7" of lift on 35"KM2s Stock pitman arm, High steer knuckle(Stock JK) Tie rod is 1-3/8" chromoly with 1 ton tie rod ends, Rubicon Express heavy duty trak bar mount and a TNT truss kit with a relocated track bar mount. 1-3/8"Chromoly track bar with Jonny style joints. No bumpsteer, No steering stabilizer.

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g79/jeffbachant/Jeep/DSC03962.jpg
Steering angles came out great.

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g79/jeffbachant/Jeep/DSC03840.jpg

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g79/jeffbachant/Jeep/DSC03841.jpg

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g79/jeffbachant/Jeep/DSC03842.jpg

are most of yalls track bar straight or are the "s" bent?

are most of yalls track bar straight or are the "s" bent?

I'm wondering this myself, since I'm considering building my own. My current one has an s-bend but I've seen a few people running them without one. It would seem like it would bind? :confused:

No bumpsteer,
Steering angles came out great.

The angles are very nice, but have to driven the rig yet? Even with the angles the same the different length of the track bar vs. the drag ling will cause bump steer. When the axle moves up and down it will follow the path of the track bar which will be at a tighter radius than the drag length will travel therefore causing bump steer.

On my setup the drag length and track bar are with in .5deg of each other and the drag link is 6" longer than the track bar which looks to be close to what you have.

Scott

The angles are very nice, but have to driven the rig yet?

..



My thoughts as well.

Here's mine, heims at both ends, straight bar. :)

http://wehrs.no-ip.com/pics/2007.07.22_crawl_mag/DSCN5067.JPG

One I built of a customer. 2" JJ at the frame & 3/4x3/4 heim at the axle side
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u309/hellbilly86/IMG_0112.jpg

I'm wondering this myself, since I'm considering building my own. My current one has an s-bend but I've seen a few people running them without one. It would seem like it would bind? :confused:


the reason to have a bent is to clear the diff at articulation.. most of the rigs around here are lifteed enough that a straigt bar can be used ( if you set the mounts up correctly)..a new track bar frame mount is probably needed as well as new mount for the axle

somthin like this
http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/679200/fullsize/track-bar-view.jpg

I would guess that 4" of lift is the minimum for a straight track bar

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii39/echo4charlie/FrontAxle.jpg

The angles are very nice, but have to driven the rig yet? Even with the angles the same the different length of the track bar vs. the drag ling will cause bump steer. When the axle moves up and down it will follow the path of the track bar which will be at a tighter radius than the drag length will travel therefore causing bump steer.

On my setup the drag length and track bar are with in .5deg of each other and the drag link is 6" longer than the track bar which looks to be close to what you have.

Scott
Here is mine. I have 0 bumpsteer. Handles better than stock.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v723/xj_man_646/0312080921.jpg

Close up of the axle end
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v723/xj_man_646/000_0126.jpg
Overall of everything at full droop
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p133/VTJeepCJ84/DSC01248.jpg

here is my junk
http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x110/ranger125/new1025.jpg

Here is mine. I have 0 bumpsteer. Handles better than stock.


Physics and geometry dictate otherwise. :flipoff2:

Why is everyone afraid of putting the panhard in front of the passenger coil? :confused:

Physics and geometry dictate otherwise. :flipoff2:

Why is everyone afraid of putting the panhard in front of the passenger coil? :confused:

i had no room because of my high steer

Physics and geometry dictate otherwise. :flipoff2:

Why is everyone afraid of putting the panhard in front of the passenger coil? :confused:

fuk me.. Im mocking this up right now and from what I can tell the lenght of my drag link and pan hard are not gonna be close to the same ..
..so high steer is the solution .and the mount in front of the coil ?

.ok how bad is the bump steer if one does it wth a short track bar ?
,,
above post shows a bunch of folks doin it this way(short)
im confused???

Why is everyone afraid of putting the panhard in front of the passenger coil? :confused:

It's because you ball out of control :flipoff2:
Your set up looks the best from what I can see... since I am in the middle of building either a HP30 or a LP44, either is going to require a new track bar or attempting to mod my RE1600 to fit...

You have managed to keep your rig street legal, how do you like the feel of heims on both ends?

..so high steer is the solution .and the mount in front of the coil ?

That's what worked for me. If you look at my frame-side mount it's dropped a little lower than some, which let me have the whole bar lower. It's tight with the drag link but there are no issues.

;8857178']You have managed to keep your rig street legal, how do you like the feel of heims on both ends?

Well. Street-driven, anyway. :)

Fuck bushings. If my front header panel wasn't all smashed up, and if Iroks didn't disappear as soon as they touch pavement, I'd drive the thing all over the place.

I just dug these out of my external hard drive...from October 2006. Doesn't seem like two years ago that I was doing this shit. :laughing: Also...the more I look at these, the more I appreciate having a passenger-drop axle...

Physics and geometry dictate otherwise. :flipoff2:

Why is everyone afraid of putting the panhard in front of the passenger coil? :confused:

Well...have YOU driven my Jeep at 80 down the highway? Have YOU driven it and had 0 bumpsteer problems? Thats what I thought :flipoff2:

I'm not afraid of putting it in front of the passenger coil, but there isn't any room between the coil bucket and tie rod.

Here is mine. I have 0 bumpsteer. Handles better than stock.

That is great that it works for you. I asked him that question because I have a set up very close to what has been posted here more than once. A drag link that goes to a hight steer arm with 3/4" heims (new ones) at both ends and a track bar (with large RE joints on both ends) that goes from under the "frame" rail (frame is plated to reinforce it) to just inside the passenger coil. Mine bump steers like a mother. It did get worse when I went to the Red Krawlers from the Iroks so maybe the sticky tire cause more, I don't know but mine has it and I am building a new track bar because of it.

Scott

Best pics that I have, the track bar has some bends to clear the diff but if you draw a straight line it is within .5deg of the drag link.

http://inlinethumb29.webshots.com/18844/2500201090037705841S600x600Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2500201090037705841orQKIn)

http://inlinethumb08.webshots.com/43271/2115985740037705841S600x600Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2115985740037705841fZZQnA)

Here you can see how much more the angle of the t-bar changes from the d-link with axle movement.
http://inlinethumb60.webshots.com/7611/2450318460037705841S600x600Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2450318460037705841wBQKol)

Well, there's bump steer, then there's bump steer:grinpimp:
My track bar terminates on the axle just inside the passenger side spring. On the road, I do not experience bump steer. I believe this is because the suspension never compresses enough to experience the differences in length between the drag link and the track bar. However, when I experience full droop on the passenger side, bump steer definitely shows its ugly face; my passenger side wheel will not droop to full extent unless the the steering wheel is allowed to turn--this is bump steer.
I have Parts mike steering arms, that are appropriate for XJ length pitman arm. This results in inadequate clearance between my tie rod and track bar, if I were to put the track bar mount in front of the spring.
Knowing what I now know, I would have engineered the front steering differently.

here is mine maybe this will help your brainstorm... it drives great on the street with close to zero bumpsteer and absolutely no death wobble i am not running a steering stabilizer.

http://img390.imageshack.us/img390/6505/n23205096344116527553eo5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img390.imageshack.us/img390/n23205096344116527553eo5.jpg/1/w604.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img390/n23205096344116527553eo5.jpg/1/)

Well, there's bump steer, then there's bump steer:grinpimp:
My track bar terminates on the axle just inside the passenger side spring. On the road, I do not experience bump steer. I believe this is because the suspension never compresses enough to experience the differences in length between the drag link and the track bar. However, when I experience full droop on the passenger side, bump steer definitely shows its ugly face; my passenger side wheel will not droop to full extent unless the the steering wheel is allowed to turn--this is bump steer.
I have Parts mike steering arms, that are appropriate for XJ length pitman arm. This results in inadequate clearance between my tie rod and track bar, if I were to put the track bar mount in front of the spring.
Knowing what I now know, I would have engineered the front steering differently.

Here's a shot of my driver's side at full drrop:

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/1529/d44axleat5.jpg (http://img263.imageshack.us/my.php?image=d44axleat5.jpg)

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii39/echo4charlie/FrontAxle.jpg

This is very similar to my setup. If you run an inverted T draglink/tierod configuration then the draglink is much shorter and closer in length to the trackbar which results in very little or no bumpsteer.

Also some axle-end trackbar mounting brackets do a good job of getting the trackbar as close as possible to the coil spring, while others seem to make the problem worse by making the trackbar very short, like this one. The axle end track bar bolt is several inches to the inside of the spring, combined with a full length crossover draglink I would expect severe bumpsteer.

http://inlinethumb60.webshots.com/7611/2450318460037705841S600x600Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2450318460037705841wBQKol)

This JKS over-the-axle trackbar relocation bracket does a good job maximizing the length of the trackbar. The trackbar bolt is actually a little in front of the coil spring, combined with the shorter inverted T draglink, there is no bumpsteer.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a373/SierraDrifter/Jeep%20Build/trackbar3.jpg

As for placing the tracbar infont or past the coil spring, when my steering is turned all the way left or right, I have very little room between the tierod and the coil spring. I think those running a D60 with long highsteer arms may have more clearance.

What would happen if the arcs were different?



IE, the frame side mount was mounted outside the frame, and axle side was mounted to the inside of the pass. side coil? Stock steering box location.






Would that be any better then having a shorter track bar, or would it just cause more problems.

The premium place for the lower trac bar pivot is in line with the lower drag link pivot, possible with an inverted T.

Also some axle-end trackbar mounting brackets do a good job of getting the trackbar as close as possible to the coil spring, while others seem to make the problem worse by making the trackbar very short, like this one. The axle end track bar bolt is several inches to the inside of the spring, combined with a full length crossover draglink I would expect severe bumpsteer.

http://inlinethumb60.webshots.com/7611/2450318460037705841S600x600Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2450318460037705841wBQKol)

And you would be correct, it is BAD!

The premium place for the lower trac bar pivot is in line with the lower drag link pivot, possible with an inverted T.

What about the upper though?


Is it better to have the pivot point at close to the steering box, or have a longer track bar?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v616/magoo117/MJ84.jpg here's mine

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v616/magoo117/MJ86.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v616/magoo117/MJ73.jpg frame mount

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v616/magoo117/MJ75.jpg

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s67/BradfordMB/grand003.jpg



http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s67/BradfordMB/grand005.jpg

Same length, same angle, zero bumpsteer :flipoff2:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v616/magoo117/MJ73.jpg frame mount
thats some frigggin nice work




this not so much..





http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/682363/fullsize/mj84.jpg

this not so much..





http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/682363/fullsize/mj84.jpg

I'm pretty sure, in this guys defense, the tubes in blue are just there for his ride hieght since hes using airshocks/coilovers...pretty obvious on that one buddy...on another note...not to sure whats going on with that link mount:confused:

I'm pretty sure, in this guys defense, the tubes in blue are just there for his ride hieght since hes using airshocks/coilovers...pretty obvious on that one buddy...on another note...not to sure whats going on with that link mount:confused:

bingo on the ride height, link mount is just temperary while we make the actual one, I cant move it around without the link attached ya know !

bingo on the ride height, link mount is just temperary while we make the actual one, I cant move it around without the link attached ya know !

Got ya man....looks good!

This thread and the way my XJ drives got me to build a new bar and mount. It is with in 1* and 1/2" in lenght of the drag link.

Scott

http://inlinethumb60.webshots.com/44667/2332437410037705841S600x600Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2332437410037705841CpcywC)


http://inlinethumb02.webshots.com/44033/2934488260037705841S600x600Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2934488260037705841obSTEt)


http://inlinethumb58.webshots.com/43193/2350826010037705841S600x600Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2350826010037705841jjQNXK)

should have looked closer

ya got some kinda angles goin on dont ya:eek:

Actually it looks pretty damn close.

should have looked closer

ya got some kinda angles goin on dont ya:eek:


The pictures don't give you a very good angle on the entire setup. I mocked it up with a stick of conduit and the angles are less than 1* different. The bar in the picture has a bend to clear the oil pan at full stuff.
It drives allot better.

Scott

http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr75/hammerdownxj/IMG_1684.jpg[/IMG]

i need to finish my trac bar mounts but this is where its going to be

The pictures don't give you a very good angle on the entire setup. I mocked it up with a stick of conduit and the angles are less than 1* different. The bar in the picture has a bend to clear the oil pan at full stuff.
It drives allot better.

Scott

my bad, i didnt see that initial bend..guess i shoulsd look closer:D

It'll all get redone when I swap axles, tried to live with bump steer but it drove me nucking futz. :laughing:
http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg18/snopro007/My%20ZJ/MiscFab106.jpg

http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr75/hammerdownxj/IMG_1684.jpg[/IMG]

i need to finish my trac bar mounts but this is where its going to be

you are gonna make it double shear as opposed to single shear....:smokin:

you are gonna make it double shear as opposed to single shear....:smokin:


Yes i finished the mount today i boxed it in and made it double shear

http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr75/hammerdownxj/IMG_1684.jpg[/IMG]


Pretty wicked looking crossmember ya got there. :flipoff2:

I was looking at the picture, but why did you put the bend in your trac bar there and not rotate it down to clear the oil pan? Or are you trying to clear your diff?

i mad it for when my jeep was lower and needed the bend to clear the diff. Im not woried about it hitting the oil pan cause im onl going to have about 5 inches of up travel and it clears the pan.