I currently have a 77 Bronco with a worn out 302. I have been doing a lot of looking and thinking on what to do as far as the engine goes. I have quite a few options, and am wondering what some of you have done and preferr as the results. I am currently heading down three different roads. The first is to rebuild the once already rebuilt 302, install a newer low mileage efi 5.0 along with computer and wiring, or there is a guy here that wants to sell me his 351M with the C6 and 205 attached. If I install the 351M I am not sure how much alteration it will take as far as crossmembers, fenders, driveshafts, ect? So looking for any helpful info, and yes go a head and shoot away. I need all comments good and bad to help decide the path!

I would never put an M into anything. A 351 Windsor would be nice tho. Same bellhousing pattern, accessories will fit. Its and inch taller and a little wider. :smokin:

351M is going to be the tougher swap, not sure if any headers are out there that work, c-6 and 205 are going to add length and you will have to redo drive shafts and most likely build a cross member, after all that work you still have a 351M.

Rebuilding the stock 302 is probably the simplest, if you are perfectly happy and just need a fresh motor with a bit more power it would be a good choice.

A late model 5.0 and EFI are very nice, you get an engine that will run at angles carbs only dream of, you get an engine that will start and idle smooth no matter the weather, you will most likely improve fuel economy.
Down side of the EFI setup is the cost, this can vary greatly depending on the route you go(used reworked harness, aftermarket harness, buying a doner car vs. buying bits and pieces), trail repairs can be tougher( but if you do it right it should be more reliable overall anyway), may not be smog legal??( not sure on this as we have no emissions testing or vehicle inspections here).

I did a 5.0 swap into my 74 bronco back in 94ish, at that time I had never seen another early bronco with an EFI 5.0 in it (I'm pretty sure I wasn't the first to do this but nobody around here had heard of anybody doing it earlier), I have had almost zero problems in 14 years, a bad fuel pressure regulator and a vaccum leak because of a cap dry rotting are all that comes to mind.

Brewchief:D

If you crawl or think you need more power go with the 351W.
For a dd that needs decent milage and driving charastics, go with the 5.0

You could always rebuild you 302 with the intent to inject it. It should all bolt up to your 302.

For the ultimate you could go with the 351w, then inject that. If that wasn't enough you could stroke it to 393 and have more torque than youd know what to do with.

The 351/400m are considered big blocks. Not alot of aftermarket for them. One the plus side, you would probably be the only person to have a modified motor in a bronco.

yeah I am doing a lot of research on the 351 series, and seems I probably wont get a whole lot more out of them. do any of you know if there has been a thread on the 5.0 efi swap? I did find a threat on another site that talks about upgrading fuel lines and pumps when doing the swap. did you do this brewchief? I guess it makes sence, but that is just one more example of why I would need a thread to be able to complete the efi swap. Id end up doing a lot of after work with out one. :confused:

If you crawl or think you need more power go with the 351W.
For a dd that needs decent milage and driving charastics, go with the 5.0

You could always rebuild you 302 with the intent to inject it. It should all bolt up to your 302.

For the ultimate you could go with the 351w, then inject that. If that wasn't enough you could stroke it to 393 and have more torque than youd know what to do with.

The 351/400m are considered big blocks. Not alot of aftermarket for them. One the plus side, you would probably be the only person to have a modified motor in a bronco.


Im trying to figure out if being the only person to have a M in a bronco is a good thing? It seems if it was smart it would have been done by now. I was going to do it for the purpose of a somewhat upgraded engine along with the C6 inplace of the C4(wich was just rebuilt so dont really need the c6 yet) and a little beefier transfer. I will be driving this a lot more than just on trails, but it will not be a dd. So far it has 35" tires, 6inch lift with the improved stab arms a near completly rust free body with the 9" and 44s getting the 4.56 with ARB upgraded. the last piece of the drivetrain will be the engine, just not sure wich one yet. :confused:

Classic broncos has tons of threads on the efi swaps, seems like there is always a couple on the first page.

When I did my swap I orgignally kept the stock tanks, added a return to each of the and used a six port valve to switch between them. After dealing with leaky tanks for a couple of years I got fed up and went to a fuel cell, I simply have a feed out of the bottom going though a filter and then to a stock high pressure pump from a pickup, some will say that you need a pusher pump but I have never used one, I do think that it helps having the pump below the tank however. I ran new steel lines for supply and return and used short pieces of high pressure rated rubber hose to make conections as needed, this has worked for 14 years but will get redone this winter or next with AN fittings and braided line when I do a complete rebuild.

Brewchief:D

Classic broncos has tons of threads on the efi swaps, seems like there is always a couple on the first page.

When I did my swap I orgignally kept the stock tanks, added a return to each of the and used a six port valve to switch between them. After dealing with leaky tanks for a couple of years I got fed up and went to a fuel cell, I simply have a feed out of the bottom going though a filter and then to a stock high pressure pump from a pickup, some will say that you need a pusher pump but I have never used one, I do think that it helps having the pump below the tank however. I ran new steel lines for supply and return and used short pieces of high pressure rated rubber hose to make conections as needed, this has worked for 14 years but will get redone this winter or next with AN fittings and braided line when I do a complete rebuild.

Brewchief:D


thats what Im talking about, good info! Thanks! Ill check out classic broncos. That is one other mod on the EB, I took out both the tanks and just put an oversized main in the rear.

I went with a 351 Windsor in my '72. Very happy with the results. I ended up boaring it 30 over with 9 to 1 compresion. I then went with a Turbo City fuel injection. Very stout with lots of torque.

Had heat issues at first, but vented the hood, drilled big holes in the hood scoop, installed a Ron Davis double pass raditor with an electric fan and no more heat.

Lot of good info on these sites.........

Bronco Clubs, Organizations & Websites
Arizona Classic Broncos: www.azbronco.org
Bronco.com: www.bronco.com
BroncoFix: www.broncofix.com
BroncOhio: www.broncohio.com
BroncWiki.com: www.broncowiki.com
Carolina Broncos: www.carolinabroncos.com
Classicbroncos.com: www.classicbroncos.com
So Cal Broncos: www.socalbroncos.net
Early Bronco Registry: www.earlybronco.com
Lonestar Early Bronco Club: www.lonestar-ebc.com
Mid-Atlantic Early Broncos: www.earlybroncos.com
Nor Cal Broncos: www.norcalbroncos.com

As previously replied, the simplest route would be to rebuild the existing 302. Or swap in a low mile or rebuilt 351W.

I wouldn't waste the time/effort/money to swap in a 400/351M. Not that is a 'bad engine' (my 79 Bronco XLT had a 400), it just that there is so much more support for the 302/351W engines.

Look into the EFI conversion, or swapping in an EFI engine. IMO, a nicely built 5.0L will give you enough power to break things. And they can be 'built' for a very reasonable outlay of cash.

If you chose to go the EFI route, here's a good series of articles:
http://www.fordfuelinjection.com/?p=62

I've used a number of his products doing the 5.0L swap into my 1976 CJ5:
http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r320/HackFabrication/ContourFan031.jpg

Lot of good info on these sites.........

Bronco Clubs, Organizations & Websites
Arizona Classic Broncos: www.azbronco.org
Bronco.com: www.bronco.com
BroncoFix: www.broncofix.com
BroncOhio: www.broncohio.com
BroncWiki.com: www.broncowiki.com
Carolina Broncos: www.carolinabroncos.com
Classicbroncos.com: www.classicbroncos.com
So Cal Broncos: www.socalbroncos.net
Early Bronco Registry: www.earlybronco.com
Lonestar Early Bronco Club: www.lonestar-ebc.com
Mid-Atlantic Early Broncos: www.earlybroncos.com
Nor Cal Broncos: www.norcalbroncos.com

Very Good..Thanks!

That is a very clean Job done on your CJ5 Hack! I would pay good $$ to have that in my EB now!

It is simple and worry free, best change I've made. Just something to consider. Rebuild the 302 slap propane to it and it will last forever.

I would pay good $$ to have that in my EB now, yes you would

You might want to consider picking up a wrecked 90's F150,250,350 pickup, a Bronco or an E150,250 or 350 van that's totalled with the F.I. 302 or 351W in it. They don't have endless amounts of power, but they have more than enough for what 99% of the wheelers do. Plus, it would be a little easier than piecing something together as I'm sure you know. If you go on ebay, craiglist or autotrader, there are thousands of these trucks for pennies on the dollar out there for sale with gas prices the way they are right now, so it would be a good time to pick one of these up. If you pick the right truck, you might be able to pick up a set of one tons as well if you would be interested in bigger axles too. About 6 months ago, I bought an F350 with the 351W, C6, BW 1356 tcase, Dana 60 kingpin front and Sterling 10.25 rear for $1000. Not nearly as expensive as some may say it would be. It had no bed, but it ran. As far as a drivetrain, the ones in the 87-92 F350s are damn near bulletproof. That's what I'd look into if you would be interested in the motor and wiring harness etc. as it is.....

I have owned a 95 F150 with the 351 W in it, as well as my current DD, a 96 GMC Sierra Z71 with the Vortec 350 in it, and honestly, I really liked Ford's 351 more. It just felt waaaay torqueier and more like a truck motor, not like a sportscar motor swapped into a pickup.

Just my $.02

Zachis you and I are eye to eye right now... I only have one problem, wich is I am on a little Island that is pretty limited on those veh. I have found a 351W that is supposedly built nicely with 7k miles on it prior to getting wrecked. The only issue is everything in Hawaii is so fricken expensive (the 351W is going for 2k). I have been looking into wrecked veh like the mustangs. The thing that is popular here, and from what I am seeing in the mainland, is just about everybody is driving tacos or nissans so that limits the amount of wrecked or ford veh for sale. I have a feeling I might be looking for a while to find the best over all deal. The choices are pretty numerous, but mostly expensive here. I am not sure what a good rebuild is going for in the Mainland, but I just got a couple quotes here and the lowest to rebuild a 302 is 2500$ (with nothing special, just the cheapest rebuild kit) so for that I may as well buy a car with EFI or get the built 351W Im thinking.

Under 2,600.00 To yiur door for a NEW Engine just a thought.

http://www.gefracing.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=G&Category_Code=CRATES

That is a very clean Job done on your CJ5 Hack! I would pay good $$ to have that in my EB now!
Thanks. It was a real learning experience ($$$). I picked up the engine on eBay. It had under 2K miles on it (I pulled the pan-it looked new), and included the intake, MAF, TB, etc.

The 351W is a good torque engine, plentiful in my 'hood, and less price than a Chevy. I also agree that it's better to purchase the entire vehicle, as opposed to piece mealing a swap/efi conversion together. However: All my 'experience' has been with the 5.0L H.O. engine. And the EEC-IV system.

If I was to do it all over again, instead of the 5.0L, I would've done a TurboBird I4 swap. Add a world class T5 adapted to a Dana 300 transfer case (with LoMax gears) and looked for ways to cut the vehicle weight down.

We're just having a short reprieve from $4 gas. It'll be back, and more....

I would never put an M into anything. A 351 Windsor would be nice tho. Same bellhousing pattern, accessories will fit. Its and inch taller and a little wider. :smokin:

I built a 393W stroker about 2 years ago for my EB. Great off idle torque and power anywhere you could ask. Wasn't hard to fit with a 2" body lift.

But yes I'm sell my stroker in favor of a 400"M". You need to think outside of the box...

Yes, I when I said "M" i meant 351M, not 400. JI am holding on to a 400 out of my 79 F250 for a future build.. cleland heads maybe.
400's have tons of torque, 4" stroke will do that. :)
Weight and width are an issue IMHO tho, especially in an EB. If you weight and size are not an issue for the Op, consider a 429/460 motor. But then again need you'd be into the tranny swap and ofcourse axles may not like it for long.

i had a 302 in my but im try to get all the parts together to do the 4bt cummins diesel swap...its alot of work kinda but alot people i have talk to say its got tons of tourqe and pretty much just kicks ass........:p

I have a 5.0 in mine. It knocks.

Next engine will be a big Block for sure. I'd guess a 460 just because they are cheap.

5.0's are cheap to aquire and easy to build to 347 strokers, and they make tons of power.
Personally, I like 393 or 408w. I'm gonna do a 408 when I have the coin.

But then again need you'd be into the tranny swap and ofcourse axles may not like it for long.

My 9" didn't like my 393W:eek: Broke the spiders once, carrier once, and finally an axle. So I decided it would be best to upgrade to 1 tons:smokin:

My 9" better hold up, cause I just found a 89 bronco with the 351W in it. They want 500 bones for her, so I dont think I can go wrong with it. Im thinking buy her rebuild it and take all she has (engine, c6 and transfer). I think the little longer combo will also help with my drive lines. now with the 6" lift I can see the splines, so Im thinking it will be back to the normal ride position. If not I guess the little guys could use an upgrade anyhow. Has anyone taken the W, c6, and 1356(or whatever they 89s have) and dropped it in? or does the c4 and 77 transfer have enough to handle it?

My 9" better hold up, cause I just found a 89 bronco with the 351W in it. They want 500 bones for her, so I dont think I can go wrong with it. Im thinking buy her rebuild it and take all she has (engine, c6 and transfer). I think the little longer combo will also help with my drive lines. now with the 6" lift I can see the splines, so Im thinking it will be back to the normal ride position. If not I guess the little guys could use an upgrade anyhow. Has anyone taken the W, c6, and 1356(or whatever they 89s have) and dropped it in? or does the c4 and 77 transfer have enough to handle it?

The 77 C4 and D20 will be fine. That is what I run. The 1356 will be too wide to fit between the narrow EB frame rails.

My 9" didn't like my 393W:eek: Broke the spiders once, carrier once, and finally an axle. So I decided it would be best to upgrade to 1 tons:smokin:

Must have been a bad 9. Hundreds of thousands of F-100/150/Broncos with 390/400 and 9" rears.

9 inches will break with a 408w. I took the 289 out of my eb and installed a 351w with a comp cam and a few oher mods. All you have to do to your rear end is upgrade the axles to 31 or 35 spline. The c-4 will work great if it is built stock or better. Mine has a shift kit and kevlar clutches no problems.

When we talk 9" in a 4WD, we're talking big bearing 31-spline. 28-splines were in 2WD's. Sure you can break anything, but they hold up well in a lot of trucks with the medium-size motors. 390/400 are very abundant and known for torque right out of the box. You might want to be sure you have a 31-spline in good shape, but you don't need to upgrade to a 1 ton axle because you put a 393/408W in your truck. I guess I might be talking a little out my butt though. It just dawned on me that maybe the narrow EB rear didn't come in 31-spline, so I may have goofed on the model here by talking full-width.

No, you are correct.. The 77 Broncos came with the 28 spline. Yeah I should have looked prior to posting, so yeah Ill leave the c4/dana 20 in it. Im excited to get the 351W rebuilt and put in. Kind of a two for 1, 351 and EFI. Now a lot of work to get started on. Thanks for all the good advice and those little details that helped steer me away from having it turn into a big detail.

see article below for all EB axle specs
http://www.bronco.com/cms/node/60

All EB's came with 28 spline, even the 77 with the heavy housing.

All EB's came with 28 spline, even the 77 with the heavy housing.

Good call! here is a cool article to cover us with.

http://www.bronco.com/cms/node/60

and a chart for guys like me

http://performanceunlimited.com/documents/broncoaxleguide.html

As everyone has stated the Sb's are best suited for the EB. IMO the M motor is a heavy turd. If i remember correcectly it even outweighs the 460ci engine and has far less power. A tuff engine it is i can say that, i had one in a 79 full size Bronc that i broke the cam in. I was on the way home one night doing around 90mph when the whole rig shuttered, lost power and began vibrating badly. I drove it home right on the floor doing about 60mph trying to blow it up and to work the next day. After getting home from work i pulled both valve covers to see both rear rockers on each side not moving. I pulled the spark plugs for those cylinders and drove the heap for another week before i got another engine, damn noisy too it was. I could be heard for miles :D.

IMO the M motor is a heavy turd. If i remember correcectly it even outweighs the 460ci engine and has far less power.

You don't recall correctly. A big block is every bit of 100 lbs heavier than an "M" block. While the 351M may be a turd compared to the 351C or 351W, it is a very stout motor if you have a big beast that doesn't mind the weight. They are very durable, almost to the likes of an FE. If you were going to install an "M" motor, it would only make sense to make it a 400, as the only difference is the crankshaft and pistons. The 400 is a torque monster with its 4" stroke, the longest in a V8, and doesn't do a bad job making good power up to almost 6000 rpms. The thing to remember is, yes you can use 400 cranks and stroke the "W" up to comparable cid in a lighter, more popular package, but its casting and bearing webs weren't designed for that kind of torque as the "M" block was. Since 1971, the 400 has always been a full-sized and station wagon motor, but in 1977 it was beefed up to be truck motor, hense the latest of its part numbers D7TE. The 351M is just a destroked 400, otherwise an identical engine.

Now, for the EB, with room being a major factor, the thing to remember is Ford has basically 5 size classes of engines, not just 2 or 3. You have the true small block which is only the 289/302, or the 351C which is different design, but not much bigger. Then you have the Windsor, which is 1" taller(and therefore wider) than the true small block. Then you have the 351M/400, which is 1" taller than the 351C, but is much beefier and heavier than the Windsor motors, because it was designed as a 400 cid motor, then destroked to 351 cid in 1975. Then you have the FE engines, 360/390 being the most common. They are basically a wash on weight, torque and economy as compared to the "M" engines, but have a much deeper skirt and are not well suited for small engine compartments, especially low overhead, or worse yet underlying axle interference like in the compact EB. Then of course you have true big blocks, 429/460, which are longer, wider, heavier and less economical than all others, but have unbeatable torque and power right out of the box.

The true small block is best suited in size for the EB. They were designed for that sized motor. If you can get the power and type of performance out of that block, that is the way to go. The 351C would be the next best choice, but parts are rapidly becoming rare, and probably not the best choice for future service. A 302 Boss, with the Cleveland heads would probably be a good compromise, but I'm not sure if a special block would be needed for the lower end, or if any standard 302 would hold up. Special(rare) hi-po parts there again could be a consideration.

Just as the "M" block is 1" taller than its predicessor, the 351C, the 351W is 1" taller than the 302, so its not just a small block for a small block exchange when you stick one of these in an EB. There are some modifications to consider for mounting and room. If you wanted more cubes than what the small block offered, that package is probably the way to go.

The "M" blocks are not that much bigger than the "W", but weigh more, and do not have the popular support for performance parts as does the "W", not to mention just a distaste for them in general, even by Ford lovers. However, they will fit with some shoe-horning in there, and if you wanted something reliable in the 400 to 430 cude range, that would be the choice rather than stretching the "W" to its limits. Not to mention the torque of that 4" stroke. Again, not the best choice for an EB by any means, but still an option.

The big blocks are just not a feasible option. One for the sheer size, and also for the sheer weight alone in that light of a truck, and the overbearing effect it would have on the front suspension given the relatively short wheelbase of the EB. Not saying nobody has ever done it, its just not feasable for the average engine swap, especially if just going up from the smallest of small to begin with.

My 9" better hold up, cause I just found a 89 bronco with the 351W in it. They want 500 bones for her, so I dont think I can go wrong with it. Im thinking buy her rebuild it and take all she has (engine, c6 and transfer). I think the little longer combo will also help with my drive lines. now with the 6" lift I can see the splines, so Im thinking it will be back to the normal ride position. If not I guess the little guys could use an upgrade anyhow. Has anyone taken the W, c6, and 1356(or whatever they 89s have) and dropped it in? or does the c4 and 77 transfer have enough to handle it?


Use the motor, C6 and get an adapter for the Dana 20. You will have driveline issues with that much lift. You will need to replace the rear spring perches and rotate your 9" a LOT. Unless it's necessary, not just cool, lower it back down some.

Use the motor, C6 and get an adapter for the Dana 20. You will have driveline issues with that much lift. You will need to replace the rear spring perches and rotate your 9" a LOT. Unless it's necessary, not just cool, lower it back down some.

Oh no brother, I dont have 9" of lift. I am with you, I like my CG low as well. I probably only have maybe 5" of lift. I was talking about my ford 9" rear.

Go 351w, you can have enough power to break anything you want if it's geared right. You can have the 351W, C6, 203/205 doubler and still have a stock wb. The rear axle is turned and the axle has a top bung to add 1 quart more oil to keep the pinion oiled. I have blown the bearing caps off of my 9" and twisted the 31 spline shafts already, along with twisting 3 of the 4340 chromo shafts in the front.

See my Build page on Classic Broncos below.

http://classicbroncos.com/forums/showthread.php?p=905484#post905484

the problem with the 351w out of the big bronco is the efi will not fit under the hood without cutting the hood. But b.c broncos makes an adapter that goes between the upper and lower intake that will make it fit. I believe you have to use a 302 upper intake this adapter allows you to do it.

My '69 trail rig has a 400 with T-18/NP-205 behind it. Other than the cam and a set of Aussie 302C heads (and Holley Commander TBI system) , its pretty much stock and has proven to be quite bullet proof. Cheap torque and lots of it..:smokin:

Fits fine in an EB..the only thing I had to fab up was the rear cross member. Weighs 65 pounds more than a 351W.


http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/198315/fullsize/dsc00802.jpg

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/515012/fullsize/004_1a.jpg

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/199435/fullsize/dsc00805.jpg

My '69 trail rig has a 400 with T-18/NP-205 behind it. Other than the cam and a set of Aussie 302C heads (and Holley Commander TBI system) , its pretty much stock and has proven to be quite bullet proof. Cheap torque and lots of it..:smokin:

Fits fine in an EB..the only thing I had to fab up was the rear cross member. Weighs 65 pounds more than a 351W.

I Figured you'd chime in sooner or later. Didn't think it would take a whole 11 days though. Been busy?

I Figured you'd chime in sooner or later. Didn't think it would take a whole 11 days though. Been busy?

Yup, Jim. Deep in to restoring the 'other' '69 EB. and no point in bringing up the engine option that's going in that one..:shaking:...doubt anyone else will be trying it. Suffice to say..the cost to build a supercharged and EFI Ford 4.0L V8 has proven a bit daunting.:D

If you crawl or think you need more power go with the 351W.
For a dd that needs decent milage and driving charastics, go with the 5.0

You could always rebuild you 302 with the intent to inject it. It should all bolt up to your 302.

For the ultimate you could go with the 351w, then inject that. If that wasn't enough you could stroke it to 393 and have more torque than youd know what to do with.

The 351/400m are considered big blocks. Not alot of aftermarket for them. One the plus side, you would probably be the only person to have a modified motor in a bronco.


dunno what your considering aftermarket, but it's out there you just need to look.

-Want cams? got them.
-Full roller? you can do that too.
-Piston choices? pretty endless..
-strokers? Got them too, covered to nearly 500 ci
-heads? stock closed chamber aussies to 2 or 3 different makers of aluminum heads
-Headers? short and long are out there.
-EFI, can be done with stock ford parts, or with one of the aftermarket systems
-4 bolt mains? those can be had too.

so really... whats left that the 302/351 weezer has that the M cannot get?



oh, I am running a SEFI 408 and it's not a weezer. Although not in a EB, I would put one in if I had a EB to do so.

OR....

You could put this in your EB, 120 lbs lighter than a 302, more torque than you will ever need, does 12's in the 1/4 and gets 18MPG.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b120/kirkallen143/th_borris002-1.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/albums/b120/kirkallen143/?action=view&current=borris002-1.jpg)

Kirk

dunno what your considering aftermarket, but it's out there you just need to look.

-Want cams? got them.
-Full roller? you can do that too.
-Piston choices? pretty endless..
-strokers? Got them too, covered to nearly 500 ci
-heads? stock closed chamber aussies to 2 or 3 different makers of aluminum heads
-Headers? short and long are out there.
-EFI, can be done with stock ford parts, or with one of the aftermarket systems
-4 bolt mains? those can be had too.

so really... whats left that the 302/351 weezer has that the M cannot get?



oh, I am running a SEFI 408 and it's not a weezer. Although not in a EB, I would put one in if I had a EB to do so.

I don't dissagree with you, for something bigger. But for the EB, like someone stated above, that much weight one the front end with such a short wheelbase.

One the subject of the M motor, Im supprised we don't see/hear about more people running them. They are cheap and easy to get ahold of and you can get a ton of torque from them.

I don't dissagree with you, for something bigger. But for the EB, like someone stated above, that much weight one the front end with such a short wheelbase..

Mine competes in various rock crawling comps every year..and is a killer in the steep climbing department. Gets a little dicey going down steep obstacles though..but overall it performs very well on the more extreme trails out there..year after year.

For the lousy 65 pounds I'm giving away compared to a 408W..I'll consider the fact that my equal performance cost one heck of a lot less to obtain. If I was that concerned about it, I could move my 35# battery tom the rear and more than achieve an equivalent weight balance to the W. But what for?..65 pounds difference is lost in the noise...

Mine competes in various rock crawling comps every year..and is a killer in the steep climbing department. Gets a little dicey going down steep obstacles though..but overall it performs very well on the more extreme trails out there..year after year.

For the lousy 65 pounds I'm giving away compared to a 408W..I'll consider the fact that my equal performance cost one heck of a lot less to obtain. If I was that concerned about it, I could move my 35# battery from the rear and more than achieve an equivalent weight balance to the W. But what for?..65 pounds difference is lost in the noise...


Thats very interesting.
How is the header clearance to the inner fender?
Do you have any idea how much torque your motor is putting out?

Thats very interesting.
How is the header clearance to the inner fender?
Do you have any idea how much torque your motor is putting out?

I'm running the stock cast iron Cleveland mannys on mine, but the Sanderson FC-3 shortys are what other 400 EB guys run and they clear fine.


When I had the motor built, it was dynoed with a 650 Demon carb (Commander 950 TBI now) and the 'shop' long-tube dyno headers..it came up with a peak torque of 496 ft-lbs at only 2900 RPM. The HP peaked around 3500 and was something like 340 IIRC (was almost 6 years ago...). The cam grind and advance were specifically designed to achieve very high torque at a minimum RPM (breaking 500 ft-lbs at 3000 RPM or less was our project goal..fell a tiny bit short even after 8 pulls and a fair amount of fiddling in between) ..so the motor is 'all out' at only 4 grand or so.

I'm sure I lost a few ponies or ft-lbs with the cast iron mannys...but it still breaks stuff at will.:shaking:

Edit: Speaking of aftermarket issues..(or whihc there are none..life is good) the 400 is undergoing a 'quiet resurgence' as folks start realizing wht it was intended to be when designed ( a Cleveland on steroids) vice what the smog Gods made it become. The Pantera crowd is all over the small-block pattern 400s ('73 only) and building some outrageous 500+ HP/500+ ft-lbs naturally aspirated iron with them. Killer aluminum heads are available from CHI and Parker in Oz. Stroker kits are now available in 434, 466 and 496 CI (!). A fellow EB nut is putting the finishing touches on his 434 as we speak and in my shop, a 466 with multi-port EFI is slowly going together. However, my enthusiasm for putting it in an EB has diminshed somewhat because the 408 I run now can pull the front wheels off the ground and break driveline parts like matchsticks..

OR....

You could put this in your EB, 120 lbs lighter than a 302, more torque than you will ever need, does 12's in the 1/4 and gets 18MPG.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b120/kirkallen143/th_borris002-1.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/albums/b120/kirkallen143/?action=view&current=borris002-1.jpg)

Kirk

Turbo 2.3 is my choice as well alot of parts and support. And cheap. They make parts to adapt to any windsor syle automatics. Or a T-5 if you want a manual. The 86-87 turbo coupes made horsepower: 190 @ 4600 rpm Torque: 240 @ 3400 rpm. Stock short blocks are good to 400 HP.

Turbo 2.3 is my choice as well alot of parts and support. And cheap. They make parts to adapt to any windsor syle automatics. Or a T-5 if you want a manual. The 86-87 turbo coupes made horsepower: 190 @ 4600 rpm Torque: 240 @ 3400 rpm. Stock short blocks are good to 400 HP.

I would love to see one of those in an EB. Might not be a good trail combo though. Those kind of HP numbers occur at a very high RPM...but the low to mid-range torque they produced is quite wimpy..I would guess that 2.3 has quite less than half the torque my 400 has at 3000 RPM.

The impetus behind our '500 ft-lb 400' project was in part to demonstrate to all the folks fixated on HP and building expensive stroked Windsors that we could build a 'cheap' factory engine with mostly stock parts that would make their 400+ HP 5 thousand dollar Windsors look silly when playing in the hard or deep gooey stuff..and that is what it does..since it breaks through 400 ft-lbs at little over 1200 RPM. Take me in a street race?..sure they will.

Turbo 2.3 is my choice as well alot of parts and support. And cheap. They make parts to adapt to any windsor syle automatics. Or a T-5 if you want a manual. The 86-87 turbo coupes made horsepower: 190 @ 4600 rpm Torque: 240 @ 3400 rpm. Stock short blocks are good to 400 HP.

Almost, it is the 2.3 with 2 extra cylinders, a 3.3 (200 ci, stock engine for a '73 bronco). A garrett T3 at 10psi, methanol/water injection on pump gas, holley 350cfm 2 barrel, and roughly 250HP and 325TQ at the rear wheels.

Later,
Kirk

"Like they say, anyone can build a V8."

Almost, it is the 2.3 with 2 extra cylinders, a 3.3 (200 ci, stock engine for a '73 bronco). A garrett T3 at 10psi, methanol/water injection on pump gas, holley 350cfm 2 barrel, and roughly 250HP and 325TQ at the rear wheels.

Later,
Kirk

"Like they say, anyone can build a V8."

I have been looking to pickup a cross-flow Aussie 250 for years to put in an EB..and then do some trick stuff to it like that one you posted. Foound one in Cali a while back..but I'm on the east coast and shipping was a beeayatch.

This is my latest 'what's best for an EB' engine choice...:smokin:

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/683754/fullsize/0810290012.jpg

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/683753/fullsize/0810290011.jpg

4bt

4bt

Close..it is a 'three character' engine..:p Ford 8BA

I read this thread pretty quick so I may have missed it, but if you go with a 302 get the 1996-7 Explorer version. The front accessorries clear better, it has the best flowing heads/intake version of the 302s and they tend to have less miles on them...it seems in my searching. Murcury Mountaineer...same deal. Because this year/model has the good stuff to start with, all your upgrades in the future will be maximized.

The guys at www.norcalbroncos.com have discussed this/done this swap in detail.