I have an AC stick welder (old craftsman). I need to get some brackets welded onto my axles. Namely, rear spring perches, front lca mounts, uca mounts, spring buckets, and all shock mounts. A lot of the front stuff is going to be welding cold roll onto cast. I realize that a stainless #??? or a nickle rod 7018?? would be nice, but I've been told to only use DC- on the cast stuff and MIG on the tubing. Please enlighten me.

Easy

I wouldn't do it yourself unless you really know what you're doing. Welding onto cast is tricky, and think about what might happen if suspension mounts fail on the highway <IMG SRC="smilies/eek.gif" border="0">

I agree with the above post. cast is extremely difficult for a first timer. I would take it to a pro to be sure it is a good weld.they have the proper equipement to heat the cast up before welding and to cool it down in the proper stages after welding.

Sucker somebody into letting you help them on their junk. You can practice welding...like say the mounts for a traction bar. If it does not work, you know what not to do on yours. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

problem is, nobody around here likes to do the junk I do. also, I've got to get the 'ol girl runnin in less than 1.5 weeks for my club's run in moab. Seein as how I'm the VP of the club and have organized all the trail runs, I need to get her going. I can do the pre heat and cool down with an oxy acet. torch, just need to know why I should be running DC instead of AC and why stick welding isn't good on the tubes, other than laying massive beads and warping the sucker. I'm a fairly accomplished backyard welder, just need some real advice on axle welding.

ac sucks compared to dc. you just don't get the same penatration as with a dc. the arc gets screwy too. cast is really hard to weld. have some one who knows how to weld cast do it. and if you are welding on stainless steel get some really good ventalation. if i was you i would use 6010 or 7010 electorde beause it seems to stay in place a little better then the 7018. that crap should be used for totally flat welds. and the 7018 has horrable slag! you can also see how well your weld will hold up by using some old cast iron and try to weld it together. then take a vice or a hammer to see if you can bend it or crack the weld.

the lincoln arc welding for beginners is a really good book!

good luck! <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/laughing.gif" border="0">

I'm gonna play the other side of the argument and say that I've never had any problems welding steel to cast with a AC buzzbox and 7018(1/8" at ~150 amps). I just pre-heat with a torch, weld, and let cool in air. no water quenching.

I do agree that it is more difficult that steel to steel, and if you are at all in doubt about your abilities have the welds done by a pro.

While it is always best to have a licensed and insured, educated and experenced highly skilled professional do it...bla,bla...

I welded the 4-link mounts to the top of my rear 60 with a DC using some hard-surfacing rod I bought to build-up some teeth on my backhoe bucket, : 0
It was a mistake for sure, that shiat cost $35/lb and the welds looked so bad I filled the joint with JBweld before I painted it...Those mounts are still on there 6 or 7 years later.
AC/DC whatever... preheat to 400, I think you probably would want some 6011 or 6013 rod for penetration. let it cool slowly (I wrap mine in fiberglass insul. and hold it on with wire overnight).

If you are worried get a old piece of cast and pre-heat/weld/cool and beat it with a hammer just to see where it breaks...

I've got a couple of old housings layin' around here, I'm gonna do some practising on them with my AC box. I hate 6010 just because of the amount of cleanup that is needed for it(slag). I really like welding with 7014, maybe I'll give it a try and beat the hell out of it with a BFH for a test.

Easy

OK, I gots to throw my .02 in here. First off, you dont need stainless rod, second 70 series rod is not nickle, its low hydrogen, and its what you want to use, dont bother with the special rods for cast welding, they cost a fortune and if ya do it right are unnecessary. Heres where we get to the doublewide (trailerpark) engineering. For the preheat, use a small 6011 rod and low amps. Mark out where your weld will be, and burn a 6011 along that line, then grind it down smooth, like it was never there. Thatll give you a more uniform preheat than using a torch. Place your bracket, and weld with the 7018. Wait for a bit, a beer length should do it <IMG SRC="smilies/beer.gif" border="0"> , then run a second pass over it with the 6011, but dont touch the base metal. Thatll be your tempering bead, only weld on the first weld, keeps the heat in the fusion zone. put the assembly out in the bright noonday sun and allow to cool naturally, and your good to go. Might be a good idea to practice with an old center section before ya try this for real. As for the welds on the tubes, just weld away, youll be fine. Is it scientific? no. Will it work?? yes. kind of a mixture of several schools, lots of experience, and a bit of good ole doublewide engineering <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

this might help, have a look, somebody posted this a while ago - http://www.adtdl.army.mil/cgi-bin/atdl.dll/tc/9-237/toc.htm

I'll still use the specialty rods myself, we have em at work <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> . Although the 6011/7018 combo sounds interesting, real similar to some pipe proceedures. And who said slag on 7018 sucks. If you get your amps right, you can brush it off with your glove, sometimes it'll peal off itself. And thats any position. As far as welding on the axle tube, stitch welding will help prevent warpage. I go about 1" at a time and clean my start/stops. Have all your brackets ready and tacked, then move around.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ross A Hildebrandt

Hey!! We almost have the same last name <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

What that has to do with this post, I don't know, but.....ahhhhhhh sorry <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by ZU
I'm gonna play the other side of the argument and say that I've never had any problems welding steel to cast with a AC buzzbox and 7018(1/8" at ~150 amps). I just pre-heat with a torch, weld, and let cool in air. no water quenching.

I do agree that it is more difficult that steel to steel, and if you are at all in doubt about your abilities have the welds done by a pro.

Heh, yea and we didn't pre-heat mine for shit!! I been beating the piss out of it pretty good, no problems so far...

-J

Before you clowns think that you actually know something about welding cast iron, you should probably know that most Dana axle center sections are nodular iron and not cast iron.:clown:

And if ya don't know the difference, step away from the welder and do some fancy book learnin first:flipoff2:

Originally posted by BillaVista
Before you clowns think that you actually know something about welding cast iron, you should probably know that most Dana axle center sections are nodular iron and not cast iron.:clown:

And if ya don't know the difference, step away from the welder and do some fancy book learnin first:flipoff2:

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing: Well put!

Originally posted by CHOKEvenom


:laughing: :laughing: :laughing: Well put!

I figured you'd pipe in Choke! ;) BTW only reason I can think of to use Mig on the tubes is its colder so less chance of warping the tubes. That being said I did almost all the welding on my current 5 with a stick. Theres a ton of info around here about welding to the cast dana center sections.

Originally posted by BillaVista
Before you clowns think that you actually know something about welding cast iron, you should probably know that most Dana axle center sections are nodular iron and not cast iron.:clown:

And if ya don't know the difference, step away from the welder and do some fancy book learnin first:flipoff2:

yeah I think there was a discussion on here the other day about this

Originally posted by scottz
this might help, have a look, somebody posted this a while ago - http://www.adtdl.army.mil/cgi-bin/atdl.dll/tc/9-237/toc.htm

:eek:WOW:eek:

36 passes on a 2" overhead grooved butt weld.

Billavista!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THANKS for mentioning that-------saved me the time. If these guys were welding on true grey cast iron-----cccccccccccccrack--pppping-ping ping!!! or at the least dangerous welds.

Although AC is usally never preferred in sizes 3/16 & below (this is for e7018) it is however the recommended practice for electrodes sizes 7/32 and above (generally). Interesting huh? (this is from Lincolns weld directory pub 9/1999).
those AC welders do fine with all rods except your EXX10 series.
While true that the penetration would not be the same (given amperages are same AC vs. DC) you adjust for this with by bumping up your amperage. One thing that could be considered as a bonus by using AC is although the ARC will not be smooth you will always be able to keep it where you want it ( no arc blow= wandering of the arc caused by magnetic forces) when this (arc blow ) happens to a person using DC+ the welder tries to solve the problem by relocatng the work cable or a few other tricks but sometimes nothing seems to work soooooooooo no matter what the size of electrode the welder can choose AC to elimanate the problem. This may not be acceptable to you ASME folks code however.
Anyways if you are good welder with a decent amount of experience behind you you SHOULD be able to most anything with that AC BUZZ BOX.
weldpro
:usa:

Originally posted by BillaVista
Before you clowns think that you actually know something about welding cast iron, you should probably know that most Dana axle center sections are nodular iron and not cast iron.:clown:

And if ya don't know the difference, step away from the welder and do some fancy book learnin first:flipoff2:

"Cast iron is an iron-based material with a high percentage of carbon. The five types of cast iron are gray, white, malleable, alloy, and nodular.

Gray cast iron is used a great deal for machine castings. It can readily be identified by the dark gray, porous structure when the piece is fractured. Gray cast iron can be welded with comparative ease.

White cast iron possesses what is known as combined carbon. The fractured piece of white cast iron will disclose a fine, silvery white, silky, crystalline formation. Although white cast iron can be welded, welding is not recommended for this metal.

Malleable cast iron is usually white cast iron which has been subjected to a long annealing process. A fractured piece of malleable cast iron will indicate a white rim and a dark center. Malleable cast iron can be welded; however you must be sure that the metal is not heated above critical temperature. Heating beyond this point reverts the metal back to its original characteristics of white cast iron.

Alloy cast iron can be arc welded, but greater precautions must be taken in the preheating and post-weld heat treatment to prevent the destruction of the alloying elements.

Nodular iron sometimes called ductile iron has the ductility of malleable iron, the corrosion resistance of alloy cast iron and tensile strength greater than gray cast iron. Nodular can be arc welded, providing adequate preheat and post-weld heat treatments are used; otherwise some of the original properties are lost."

So are you saying you read the book ?

Uh yeah what weldpro said, and also when ataching stuff to cast iron or dificult to weld steel castings brazing is a good option. You said you have an Oxy acetylene torch so if you are worried about the welding on cast you could also consider brazing that spring perch on. I do think that the dana center sections are maleable iron, not steel castings but I don't know for sure.

That Military welding manual is VERY cool- I sugggest that anyone who wants to know more go check it out ---I just saved that whole thing to a CD!!!.
Does anybody know if the Math manuals that are in the appendix are also online?
weldpro
:usa:
I just checked & two manuals are availiable one shop Math other machinist math- but I cant access them? It says the manuals are public info-WTF -anybody?

hey weldpro,

where do I get a look at that military welding manual?

look through the posts above and the link is there 2 times!
Its a big book!
weldpro:usa:

Firstly...carpenters should stick with wood!! If you didn't live on the wrong side of the state,I'd bring my machine over and help you. I know that the 6011,s will run ok and there is nothing wrong with you using the 7014's being that's what your comfortable with. Another option is phone Hobart Institute of Welding Tech., in your back yard @ Troy, Ohio. Ask for Ron Scott....director of training, tell him your Jeepin' with me....Ron calls me Shark sometimes....from Bayer Corp., New Martinsville, W.Va....I did my testing there and keep in touch with them. Ron can give you info or he runs a fair size speciality weld shop at his home on weekends and evenings....he is the best I've ever seen and he is an ole Ky. boy.....good people!!!! Later, bro.:smokin:

ive been welding all my shit(bumpers, shackle hangers, etc) with an old craftsman AC 220 buzz box and 6011 at like 90-120 amps. the welds are butt ugly but strong as hell(so far). ive started to cover them with a layer of JB weld:rainbow: because they are really fugly! am i doin soemthing wrong or is AC stick weldin always ugly?? i can make kickass lookin welds with the DC stick welder at school??? but its some $5000 fancy setup...:rasta: :rasta:

doh!

found it weldpro, the little wheel on my mouse allows me to scroll way faster than I can actually read, it has nothing to do with teh amount of beer ive ingested.

who the hell brought this thread back to life, I asked this back in Sept.

Easy

Originally posted by EasyXJ
who the hell brought this thread back to life, I asked this back in Sept.

Easy

So then give us an update on your results. Did you use the AC buzzbox? What rod? How did it come out?

hell, I'm glad it came back from teh dead....I have been looking for a good manual on welding for a while now and didn't want to pay a shiotload for one......I never would have found that us army welding theory page!

now how about a properties of metal manual....

Originally posted by weldpro
That Military welding manual is VERY cool- I sugggest that anyone who wants to know more go check it out ---I just saved that whole thing to a CD!!!.
Does anybody know if the Math manuals that are in the appendix are also online?
weldpro
:usa:
I just checked & two manuals are availiable one shop Math other machinist math- but I cant access them? It says the manuals are public info-WTF -anybody?

Is this what you're looking for?

http://www.adtdl.army.mil/cgi-bin/atdl.dll/tc/9-524/toc.htm

Can you weld nodular iron with a Mig:question: I assume you can:confused:
thanks,

Mike---Thanks I'll take that manual too! The one I really need is the SHOP Mathematics if you could link it for me I'd be greatful. The library won't seem to let me access it but when you post the link I seem to have no problems getting to it. Thanks again- everybody should benefit quite a bit from these links(LOTS of info)

Tankoma-yes

weldpro :usa:

just checkin.
thanks;)

Well, since that post I've built 5 axles, 2 for me and 3 for my cousin. I've also helped a local jeep racer build some axles for his clients. The AC box does fine, but I can't seem to get the 7018 to work for me on the cast sections. I use one of those ultra expensive specialty rods for that (Super Missile). I like using DC better, but I have to take the housings over to a buddy's and that's a pita so I'm using the AC. I've got a 30 ton press that I've been testing welds with and have become quite happy with most everything I've done.

Easy