hey everybody

my 44 build is pretty much done. gears are done, TNT truss has been welded on, and ive got all the odd n' end parts to swap it in.

only thing that has left me confused is steering, simply because ive gotten multiple answers

some have told me i have to ream the stock pitman arm to fit the 44 DRE, and others have told me, that a drop pitman arm for a waggy 44 will fit the spline end of the XJ box, and obviously work for the waggy drag link

anybody whos done this swap please chime in. i dont want to ream my stock one, if i can just spend 50 bucks on a new pitman arm, and i dont want to buy a pitman arm if it wont work

thanks

My XJ pitman arm is reamed to accept a 1/2 ton TRE. I do not know of the Waggy pitman will go onto the XJ box.

Yes it will. It's a popular mod to use a Waggy drop pitman arm to match the 44's steering knuckle throw.

can anybody confirm that the waggy 44 pitman arm will bolt up?

thanks

i will confirm it , it bolts right up man .

This is good information... something I haven't seen asked yet. Definitely helpful considering I am following a similar path :)

Yes it will. It's a popular mod to use a Waggy drop pitman arm to match the 44's steering knuckle throw.



what do you mean steering knuckle throw?

what do you mean steering knuckle throw?

The length of the XJ pitman arm is shorter then the Waggy, which equates to the XJ pitman not allowing the wheels to turn as far either direction. Also the distance from the cl of the TRE to the center line of knuckle on the XJ is smaller the that of the Waggy Knuckle. You need the matching pitman arm for the knuckles. Make sense?

The length of the XJ pitman arm is shorter then the Waggy, which equates to the XJ pitman not allowing the wheels to turn as far either direction. Also the distance from the cl of the TRE to the center line of knuckle on the XJ is smaller the that of the Waggy Knuckle. You need the matching pitman arm for the knuckles. Make sense?

I can confirm this! My XJ does not get the full 6.5" of travel, I'm only getting around 6" from the stock pitman arm (reamed for a 1 ton tre). I wish I had heard about the waggy arm before, but I'm going to full hydro and wont need this stuff anymore.

I have a question!

I am going to do the leaf spring front conversion and need to know if I should use the waggy pitman arm?

pm theglassman he did this

If you put on a longer pittman arm, are you not effectively lowering your the power your steering has? Longer arm = longer lever, and thus harder to turn, at least with stock steering?

doesnt a longer lever increase the power... it would create more leverage...
i think... like a cheater bar on a ratchet

The length of the XJ pitman arm is shorter then the Waggy, which equates to the XJ pitman not allowing the wheels to turn as far either direction. Also the distance from the cl of the TRE to the center line of knuckle on the XJ is smaller the that of the Waggy Knuckle. You need the matching pitman arm for the knuckles. Make sense?



well no shit...Ive been wondering why I cant turn as tight and i would not figure it out. Thanks. lol

doesnt a longer lever increase the power... it would create more leverage...
i think... like a cheater bar on a ratchet

Only if the the force is acting on the steering linkage end of the pitman arm trying to turn the pivot end (the steering box end) The longer the pitman arm is, the HARDER it is for the box to turn the wheels.

you may want to consider the Ackerman angle and toe out during turns as wider axles and a shorter wheelbase will affect these.

Only if the the force is acting on the steering linkage end of the pitman arm trying to turn the pivot end (the steering box end) The longer the pitman arm is, the HARDER it is for the box to turn the wheels.

ah icic... im following you now

Posting to explain.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Other%20Jeeps%20type%20pics/pitmanarmtohighsteerarm.jpg

you may want to consider the Ackerman angle and toe out during turns as wider axles and a shorter wheelbase will affect these.

What does this have to do with the pitman arm? :shaking:

Last I checked, he wasn't asking about making custom steering arms...

dammit.... i hate math...

dammit.... i hate math...
So use a tape measure, Point A to Point B:flipoff2:

I reamed my stock Xj arm to 1ton TREs. Use a 5/8in masonary bit and a $20 reimer found at a local tool shop.

I had a blank d60 arm that I drilled and reimed to I think 6.5in from king pin to TRE hole center.


---------------------------------------------------------------------
1ton TREs. 7/8-18TPI


ES2027L $18.99 high misalignment drag link end Passenger side 7/8"-18 about 7in long with 3in of threads, BIG taper

ES2026R $20.99 high misalignment drag link Pitman arm side end Are 7/8"-18 about 7in long with 3in of threads, BIG taper

ES2234R $23.99 Shorter then the drag links, driver side tie rod 7/8"-18
Application: 85 Blazer

ES2010L $40 Shorter then the drag links, 7/8-18 right and left hand thread TRE

ES2233L $25.99 pass side tie rod 7/8"-18 WITH HOLE FOR DRAG LINK, for T-geometry steering.
Application: 85 Blazer

P/N:14026805 (left hand) left hand jam nuts 7/8-18 Chevy dealer
P/N: 14026806 (right hand) right hand jam nuts 7/8-18 Chevy dealer
P/N:2595A424 7/8-18 right hand TAP McMaster-Carr (http://www.mcmaster.com)
P/N:2595A999 7/8-18 left hand TAP (Special order) McMaster-Carr (http://www.mcmaster.com)

All TRES use a 1.5"/ft taper
TR-216-2 Tapered Reamer 7/16in-1inx6 1/2in Goodson sells for $60

---------------------------------------------------------------

1/2 ton TRES 3/4-16TPI
Jeep applications use ES2847R and ES2848L tie rod ends.


(ES150R) Application: FORD TRUCK F100/F250 61-65
GMC TRUCK K1500/K2500 63-66, CHEVROLET TRUCK K10 64-66.

(ES375L) drivers side "outer" tie rod end (left hand side) for '67-'72 1/2ton & 3/4ton GMC trucks
Application:'67-'72 1/2ton & 3/4ton GMC trucks


TRE flared inserts, Steel insert with spiral lock flanged nut (http://www.goferitoffroad.com/products.htm)

I'm running a waggy pitman arm because it has about 1.5 inches longer 'throw' witch matches up well with my highsteer arm. The pitman arm from hole to hole on the horizontal plane, needs to be as long as the distance from the balljoint to the hole that the tierod is attached to, on the highsteer arm. If the pitman arm is to short the knuckle will not turn all the way and turning radius is increased. The waggy pitman arm also has the larger tappered hole to fit a 1 ton chevy TRE.

This pic shows the highsteer arm is 7 1/4" and the XJ dropped pitman arm only has a 5.5" throw.
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a373/SierraDrifter/Jeep%20Build/pitman4-1.jpg

This picture shows the longer waggy pitman arm next to a stock XJ arm.
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a373/SierraDrifter/Jeep%20Build/new-pitman1-2.jpg

Be aware that the longer pitman arm causes the draglink to be located above the tierod, which could cause them to hit when the suspension is fully compressed. This is why I did not chose a dropped waggy pitman arm. Also with highsteer the lower the piman arm drops, the higher you will have to raise the trackbar axle mount to keep the draglink and trackbar parallel.

Here is the waggy pitman arm installed, you can see how the draglink is nearly directly above the tierod.
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a373/SierraDrifter/Jeep%20Build/new-pitman3.jpg

With the flat waggy pitman arm, and a JKS over-the-axle trackbar relocation bracket, the draglink and trackbar are exactly parallel, and my knuckles turn all the way until the stops are engaged.
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a373/SierraDrifter/Jeep%20Build/trackbar2-1.jpg

Sierra Drifter great build tread i like all the pics looks like you do some good work

Either way can be done, if you haven't gathered that. There is good info here. I reamed an XJ drop arm to accept a waggy drag link, and it works, but turning radius isn't great, for the reasons already listed. It is by far good enough to drive and 4-wheel fine, but a sharper radius is sure handy sometimes! I have a drop waggy arm on order - I'll PM you if this causes an issue, such as the drag and TR hitting eachother in flex.

http://www.trail-gear.com/hydro-ram-kit.html

thinking about buying that kit to do my hydro assist. its about the same price as piecing a kit together, and its all in one package. im planning on running it on my wagoneer 44. currently its got stock steering. i know this probably isn't the best idea, but i dont do rocks, mostly mud, hill climbs and trails, so i dont really see me putting TOO much stress on the tie rod. i could be completely wrong though

one of the things which is required by the kit though it a 1.25 inch tie rod. im at school right now, so i cant go out and measure, but by looking at a ruler, i dont recall my tie rod being that large. does anybody know if the stock waggy tie rod is big enough, or will i have to modify the mount somehow to work?

thanks

Build your own?

http://www.rockhardxj.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2241

The trail gear is the kit I have. By far the easiest and best priced kit you will find. I have pieced together kits before and its much easier to get this setup. Their ram has heims on each end which make misalignment easier. I did not use the supplied bracket for the axle housing (setup for Toyota housing) and made my own. Only other items I purchased was an extra quart of power steering fluid and two pipe/AN fittings for my gear box.

I also recommend picking up to AN caps. If there was ever a problem (bent ram, leaking hose) you can just cap the lines at the gear box and be back to normal.

http://www.trail-gear.com/hydro-ram-kit.html

thinking about buying that kit to do my hydro assist. its about the same price as piecing a kit together, and its all in one package. im planning on running it on my wagoneer 44. currently its got stock steering. i know this probably isn't the best idea, but i dont do rocks, mostly mud, hill climbs and trails, so i dont really see me putting TOO much stress on the tie rod. i could be completely wrong though

one of the things which is required by the kit though it a 1.25 inch tie rod. im at school right now, so i cant go out and measure, but by looking at a ruler, i dont recall my tie rod being that large. does anybody know if the stock waggy tie rod is big enough, or will i have to modify the mount somehow to work?

thanks


That is not as you say "all one kit". You still need to drill and tap a box a possibly modify the pump.

No the waggy tie rod is not big enough.

i knew it wasn't an "all in one" kit, but it had everything that i needed really..i just would need to drill/tap the box.

and i found out it wont work with the inverted-y steering anyways, so untill i redo it all, guess im no hydro

I'm running that kit on my grand. Nice stuff. If you do decide to do it, I'd recommend them in a heartbeat. Tapping the box and modding the pump is easy.

hey everybody

well my waggy 44 is under the jeep, and im content with everything for the most part right now. i plan on running hydro steer, as im running 38s and will probably/definately need it. especially with a spool up front. i

so...i was wondering. can i can i build a tie rod, and put ends on each side of the DOM which will accept rod ends, then, build a drag link which runs all the way to the knuckle, and put a heims on it. put the drag link under the knuckle, with the drag link on top. then drill out the knuckle to accept a standard bolt on each side.

idealy i know i should hi-steer, but with everything finally assembled i dont want to pull it all back apart and drill out the knuckles for for arms. (even though ive got chevy flat tops).

so what im basically asking, is whats the cheapest, yet affective way of building steering that will accept hydro assist....pics would be great

thanks

WTF man?!?! Now you have 3 entirley diffrent threads on the same subject. Update one instead of re-posting.
http://pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=723790&highlight=waggy+44+steering

http://pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=739573&highlight=waggy+44+steering

(click em, there diffrent)

Spool + 38's + hydro assist + D44 = :nuke:

I forsee many broken parts in your future.

A drag link to a heim at the stock tie rod location might work, but you better not have a lot of lift height. Just do the stupid hi-steer arm like everyone else and stop trying to be a cheap ass about it.

This is about the 'cheapest' way to do it and still have it be effective.

http://pages.prodigy.net/dmacock/links/axle1.JPG

yea, i had 3 different topics on steering...one about waggy steering, one about hydro and this...sorry, figured id make a new thread to get a good answer

but yea, im not sure how the d44 will work out. i build it planning on running 35/36s, but the 38s have about half tread and i got em for like 250, so im running what i can. if i have problems with it ill either put alloy shafts in it or begin building 60s which id like to run down the road anyways

i plan on running hydro steer
No your not, your planning on hydro assist

can i can i build a tie rod, and put ends on each side of the DOM which will accept rod ends, then, build a drag link which runs all the way to the knuckle, and put a heims on it. put the drag link under the knuckle, with the drag link on top. then drill out the knuckle to accept a standard bolt on each side.

In the leaf spring swap TOTM there are some good suggestions
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=720309

ES2027L and ES2026R on the drag link
ES2233L on the tierod had to be reimed larger to accept the ES2027, A ES2234R on the DS tierod.

I'd run inverted T steering, with a tie rod running knuckle to knuckle and the drag link running from the pitman arm to tabs on the top of the tie rod, using all rod ends. Very simple to build, and it's strong and durable.

Buy this tubing and run 3/4" heim joints, the tubing is 5/16" wall and extremely tough for a tie rod, and is 11/16" ID which is the correct size to tap for 3/4 16 threads.

http://www.polyperformance.com/shop/1.25-X-.281-Wall-DOM-Tubing-p-503.html

You can get left and right hand 3/4" 16 taps inexpensively at Enco.

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INSRAR2&PMAKA=325-4848&PMPXNO=5809933

Get these 3/4" x 5/8" heim joints, 3 of them, and drill the knuckles to 5/8". Two for the knuckles and one for the drag link.

http://www.polyperformance.com/shop/RSMX-High-Strength-Heavy-Duty-Shank-p-14.html

Use these safety washers on the knuckles with 5/8" bolts, and you could use them for spacers on the drag link.

http://www.polyperformance.com/shop/Safety-Washers-p-21.html

Get this high misalignment spacer, PPM-3712-10-175, for the pitman arm and use it with this 3/4" x 3/4" heim joint and 5/8" bolt for the pitman arm.

http://www.polyperformance.com/shop/High-Misalignment-Spacers-p-19.html

http://www.polyperformance.com/shop/JMX-High-Strength-p-348.html

To be able to easily adjust the toe without unbolting the drag link, use this QA1 linkage double adjuster, 3/4" x 3/4", and put it next to the heim joint on the drivers side knuckle.

http://qa1.thomasnet.com/viewitems/related-products/linkage-adjusters-2?&plpver=1001&bc=1001|1003|1034|3001451|3001411&forward=1

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=HAL%2DADJ12%2D12&N=700+115&autoview=sku

Should be everything you need, other than the two tabs, and a 5/8" drill bit. :)


Here's a pic of mine. You can do it now on your knuckles and later when you get high steer arms you can just move it up and still use it. I don't have a pic after I used the double adjuster, which makes it a cleaner setup, and I don't have a pick with my assist cylinder that I added later.

Simple to do, and no welding other than the tabs on the tie rod for the drag link mount.

http://www.fototime.com/11DE6436600EFC7/standard.jpg

wow man...thanks a lot. thats exactly what i needed. its all the spacers, and safety washers, and little stuff that i can never figure out if i need or not. i really like that steering set up. only question is what is the purpose in the break in the tie rod just before the drag link mount. is it necessary, or could i run solid tube from knuckle to knuckle

and your planning on running this same steering with hydro?

thanks again

wow man...thanks a lot. thats exactly what i needed. its all the spacers, and safety washers, and little stuff that i can never figure out if i need or not. i really like that steering set up. only question is what is the purpose in the break in the tie rod just before the drag link mount. is it necessary, or could i run solid tube from knuckle to knuckle

and your planning on running this same steering with hydro?

thanks again

In that pic, I didn't have the double adjuster, so I did my own bracket for the drag link to mount to the tie rod so I could still turn the tie rod to adjust the toe.....that's what you see. Later I redid it with the double adjuster, so the tie rod is all one peice (with the tabs for the drag link) and on the drivers side is the double adjuster and then the heim joint. I just don't have a pic of it.

I also don't have a pic of the hydro assist, but it fits heasily with the cylinder mounted on the inside (towards drivers side) of the axle track bar mount and then to two tabs on the back side of the tie rod. The assist has been on there for a long time, but I never shot any pics of it.

The last few years I've just worked on the buggy. :)

Here's a pic of the double adjuster on the drag link of the buggy, so you can see what it does. It's on the drag link because the buggy has inverted Y steering, drag link straight to the knuckle. Also, much has changed since I took this pic, but it gives you the idea of what it does. To adjust, you don't have to turn the tube, just turn the adjuster.

http://www.fototime.com/3103689441D183D/standard.jpg

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa45/zj95maxx/100_0125.jpg

hey i have leaf sprung my jeep and i am working on some steering set ups becasue its my daily driver and dead spots are deff scary on the freeway does anyone have any pics or ideas for a hydro asst setup ?

heres mine i did on my 44 cause i couldn't afford hi-steer. works great. you could use tre's insted of heims on the tie-rod if you didn't want to drill the knuckle out.
http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v1970/141/106/543005419/n543005419_2423494_5305.jpg
http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v1970/141/106/543005419/n543005419_2423489_4014.jpg

200$ for this set up. full heims with 1/4" wall dom. it's DIY, but easy.
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q32/pologuy1441/My%20Truck/330.jpg
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q32/pologuy1441/My%20Truck/333.jpg

200$ for this set up. full heims with 1/4" wall dom. it's DIY, but easy.
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q32/pologuy1441/My%20Truck/330.jpg
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q32/pologuy1441/My%20Truck/333.jpg


Nice steering setup, but i would suggest putting a lock/jam nut on you track bar

Nice steering setup, but i would suggest putting a lock/jam nut on you track bar

i would suggest getting rid of that weeny ass BDS trackbar :flipoff2:

WTF man?!?! Now you have 3 entirley diffrent threads on the same subject. Update one instead of re-posting.
http://pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=723790&highlight=waggy+44+steering

http://pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=739573&highlight=waggy+44+steering

(click em, there diffrent)
Thanks, I merged all three threads into one, it may read out of order now.


iwishihad1 keep it up and youll get an infraction on PBB. :flipoff2:
Keep all your related questions in one thread.

well if it didn't get brought back from the dead it really wouldn't have been a big deal. in my eyes the threads were different. one was for hydro assist, and the other was asking which kind of steering i should build.

im looking at building something like what blueXJbuddy build

looks pretty simple, yet effective.

now it looks like he isn't running high misalighment spacers on the tie rod. only on the drag link

i was thinking about getting 4 of these
http://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/catalog/34-rod-end-set-1-lh-1-rh-p-338.html

running 2 for the drag link, and 2 for each end of the tie rod, but i dont know if theyre even necessary on the tie rod. should i just get heims for each end of the tie rod with no spacers, or what?

ive noticed alot of the pics posted have draglinks not the same length or angle as the trac bar. howare yall not getting bump steer? just curious cause i see it alot and everyone says "it drives great".