So I am putting together rebuild plans for next year, and one of my "wants" is a manual trany. My jeep has a pretty healthy 5.9 so I think the 4500 is the only way to go.

Now I know that I can use all the parts out of a 5.9 dodge truck. My only road block is how to get a clutch pedal and bezel into the jeep. I know most will say to just build my own console but I really want to keep the stock int. look. I don’t want to get rid of my stock center console.

I don’t think that the ZJ ever came with a manual but if so could some one please post a vin that I could use to get a hold of the pedal assembly.

Any other ideas would be cool.

Don't have a VIN for ya but in '93 there were a limited number of ZJs that came with the AW4, I believe it was. I've always gone to the parts department at the dealer and used them as a resource for this kind of thing.

what are you talking about...

An AW4 in an automatic, and I have two 93 zj's with the 4.0 aw4 combo. On top of that the aw4 wont even work behind the 5.9. The 5.9 has a 52re behind it.

Then it wasn't the AW4, I wasn't sure of the designation. Let me go check my FSM for ya..... AX-15, I knew there was an A in there somewhere. Handy things those FSMs...

OK... that would make more since. I still have never seen one or heard of one.

[QUOTE=Action Fab;8866770----- My only road block is how to get a clutch pedal and bezel into the jeep. I know most will say to just build my own console but I really want to keep the stock int. look. I don’t want to get rid of my stock center console.

I don’t think that the ZJ ever came with a manual but if so could some one please post a vin that I could use to get a hold of the pedal assembly.

Any other ideas would be cool.[/QUOTE]

I'd look at an XJ set-up for ideas. There are so many similarities between the XJ and ZJ platforms, and I wouldn't be surprised if the XJ components (clutch pedal, MC) wouldn't' be easily adapted .
The XJ clutch master cylinder works fine with the NV4500 clutch.
I run the NV4500 in my '88 XJ, using an "Iron Duke" slave cylinder, and a stock XJ clutch MC and hydraulic line; however, I'm using a Chevy bell housing and clutch (Dodge NV4500 with Chevy input shaft).

The NV4500 is huge, compared to any stock Jeep trans. You'll probably have to do serious damage to the "hump" (trans tunnel) to gain the necessary clearance. The NV4500 shifter is farther forward than any Jeep trans, requireing modifications to both the trans tunnel and the center console to accommodate the trans and shifter.

The 4.0/ax-15/231 was available in very limited numbers in 93-4 ive seen 1 or 2. You might try a dealer part lookup for clutch pedal assy. I'd imagine the master cylinder, lines etc are the same from a similar year XJ, clutch peda assy prob is too...


OK... that would make more since. I still have never seen one or heard of one.

Here you go:

http://photos-b.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v291/81/91/1398720068/n1398720068_30397961_6249.jpg

Now you have seen one.

I scaveneged this pic off the ad (http://www.nc4x4.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51404) for one for sale locally.

I think a NV4500 behind the 5.9 in a grand would be really fun.:smokin: From what i've seen it looks like a pretty straight forward swap if you use the parts off a dodge truck, the only problem I have heard of ss the starter on the Jeep 5.9 is on the opposite side as the Dodge truck 5.9. Good luck,
Sam

Hey man I run an np435 in my ZJ buggy with the stock firewall, original motor, and a modified ZJ pedal setup. I know it's not a nv4500 but it's a granny manual trans. in a car that came with an automatic.

On my 94 there was a knockout plate that is just glued to the firewall for the clutch master to pass through. I'm not sure if all model years had the knockout plate, but they mass produced these things and made all the chassis's fit everything, so I would think they all might have the plate. I ended up using an XJ clutch master.

For the pedals I used an XJ clutch pedal along with an XJ brake pedal because it is narrower and had to modify it slightly. I can take some pics of my setup if you want.

Cam

Oh yeah also the shifter on mine comes up through the lower part of the dash way in front of where the stock center console was. Basically I had to cut out everything below the heater controls and bend the np435's shifter back towards me and then upwards to get it to clear everything.

Now I don't know offhand the length difference of the 435 vs. the nv4500 but judging by where the shifter was in my old 6.5 TD towrig, I would think your shifter would need to come through the floor in about the same spot.

What you could do though is run something like this to keep the shifter in the stock console spot.
http://www.ironbender.com/shifter_installed2.jpg

pix would be cool

cool I will try to get some this weekend

http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/9599/4500install2cj5.jpg (http://img510.imageshack.us/my.php?image=4500install2cj5.jpg) http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/6716/4500install1fi9.jpg (http://img510.imageshack.us/my.php?image=4500install1fi9.jpg)

Couple of shots of my NV4500 install.

Any updates?

Ah I forgot those pics. Can try to get a couple for you tomorrow.

Did this end up going anywhere? Anyone else with experience doing this?

I'm playing around with the idea for my 5.9 ZJ..

Would I expect any issues regarding the electronically controlled 46RE trans the NV4500 is replacing?

I know my 5.9 is healthy and thats the reason I bought the Jeep in the first place..and I thought I wanted an auto but I'm not a huge fan of a ~2.74 first gear..and it's acting a lil funny already shifting to 2nd..

With 5.13's and a 4.0 case, I'll end up with the same crawl ratio as my old XJ with NV3550, 4.88's & 2.72's... :rainbow:

I guess an NP435 is the easiest choice but no OD and not that great for DD..I'm not DD but I want my rig capable of long excursions and generally roadworthy..

I suppose an easier solution to the crawl ratio would just be a better crawlbox..

FWIW, I've been tossing this idea around for awhile myself, looking to buy one and start from scratch, leave the truck world for awhile and join the jeep crowd. I have behind my 4.0 in my ranger an np435 and its ok, kinda cool but i'd much rather have the v8 with the nv4500.
Being that the tranny is electronically controlled, i was assume that you're only going to throw a Checkengine code, however in the event something goes wrong and cuts your power back due to the code, you could also use a resistor to fool the computer, kind of like a boost fooler on a cummins.
I'll be subscribing to this thread if your build continues because chances are i'll be doing the same, in the future.

I never did it but there were two guys on Mallcrawlin that did it. might head over there and search them out.

From what I gather, I would need the flywheel, flexplate, clutch, bellhousing, trans & shifter, & possibly t-case while I'm at it from a '94-'97 Dodge 2500-3500 5.9l GAS truck..

And the (brake & clutch) pedal assembly and clutch master cylinder & line from a stick ZJ or XJ..

Options for the slave would be the "Iron Duke" mentioned..or will the dodge truck slave work?

Not sure what BubbaJeep meant by: however, I'm using a Chevy bell housing and clutch (Dodge NV4500 with Chevy input shaft).

How does that work? Necessary?

Not sure about the starter on dodge 5.9's being on opposite sides as mentioned either..is this right?

Okay cool, thanx SR..I know the trans/motor has an electronically controlled governer..

I never did it but there were two guys on Mallcrawlin that did it. might head over there and search them out.

Thanks Chris...so what happened with your ZJ chassis, you sell it yet?

It's going into storage at the end of the month. I had one guy inquire, but nothing serious. I'm putting susupension stuff under another ZJ I have. I put the atlas behind my mad rooster thats in my TJ and switched it over to the 1410 dtive shafts from the ZJ. I'll be switching the full hydro over to the TJ next. So basicly I am putting all the good stuff from the ZJ into my other jeeps. One day it will meat its maker again.... one day.

so, if the starter is on the opposite side, buy a starter for a dodge gas truck, extend the ground and hot and move it to the other side, or am i missing something?

I would make a safe bet that the brake and clutch assembly for the 93/94 zj's that came with the ax15's are either already discontinued for over the counter sales or will soon be. I mean really, how many people do you think went and bought these? I would check this first before going any deeper, unless of course you custom fab your own which can be done as well.

It's going into storage at the end of the month. I had one guy inquire, but nothing serious. I'm putting susupension stuff under another ZJ I have. I put the atlas behind my mad rooster thats in my TJ and switched it over to the 1410 dtive shafts from the ZJ. I'll be switching the full hydro over to the TJ next. So basicly I am putting all the good stuff from the ZJ into my other jeeps. One day it will meat its maker again.... one day.

Haha..okay I was j/w...what would you have asked for it if ya finished it the way ya had it..?? i've still got that front 3/4 shot with the 40's on my desktop haahaha.. :D

so, if the starter is on the opposite side, buy a starter for a dodge gas truck, extend the ground and hot and move it to the other side, or am i missing something?

I would make a safe bet that the brake and clutch assembly for the 93/94 zj's that came with the ax15's are either already discontinued for over the counter sales or will soon be. I mean really, how many people do you think went and bought these? I would check this first before going any deeper, unless of course you custom fab your own which can be done as well.

Since the starter bolts right to the bellhousing I guess it could be that easy..

The ZJ assemblies would def make it much easier..then again the XJ pedals might not be too bad to setup..

...I was a lil worried about real estate issue with the starter relocation..

http://www.mallcrawlin.com/forum/showthread.php?10451-NV4500-to-360-V8-Starter-Issues.&highlight=nv4500

ah, never thought about the XJ pedals. I"m sure they could be modifed easily to work right.
Are both 5.9's the same bolt pattern, truck and jeep? Stupid question i know but i'm not from round here.
that link shows the dude running his exhaust to the front of the motor, is that a 4.0?

I know this is a little different as it's a NV3500 going into my WJ, but I ran into the same starter issues. Here's my solution:
http://agitatedpancake.com/random/jeep/radswap/dscn3945.jpg

cut and rotated:
http://agitatedpancake.com/random/jeep/radswap/dscn3961.jpg

http://agitatedpancake.com/random/jeep/radswap/dscn3986.jpg

http://agitatedpancake.com/random/jeep/radswap/dscn3990.jpg

notched the frame rail:
http://agitatedpancake.com/random/jeep/radswap/dscn3999.jpg

http://agitatedpancake.com/random/jeep/radswap/DSCN4003.jpg

I was able to use all the peices from the stock y pipe and cut/rotate the hell out of them to point hte new direction.
http://agitatedpancake.com/random/jeep/radswap/DSCN4002.jpg





I used a toyota truck brake pedal for my clutch to shift the master way over to the side to fit on the firewall.
http://agitatedpancake.com/random/jeep/radswap/dscn3977.jpg

http://agitatedpancake.com/random/jeep/radswap/dscn3973.jpg

It wouldn't have fit next to the booster without that pedal shifting it way over to the side
http://agitatedpancake.com/random/jeep/radswap/dscn3975.jpg

From what I can tell they are with the exception of the starters..

Ya, thats either a 4.0 or a 4 banger.

Still can't find any good writeups on NV4500 in ZJ. :(


edit: Jeez all that for the starter! I retro'd a 3550 into my old XJ...but that was a piece o cake because that was already stick.. :homer: haha

Nice work..ya I can see where it looks like you heated the pedal and bent it over. I guess that's always an option....

I'm starting to get the feeling of biting off alot, considering I'm just starting my build. I wanna do stuff the right way the first time but its starting to add up..hmm..

It was a TON of work let me tell ya haha!

And actually I didn't have to bend the pedal, that's just where it was starting to rust. Heres how they sit in the truck
http://agitatedpancake.com/random/jeep/radswap/dscn3981.jpg

Dakotas have the starter on the passenger side... Rigth? The 3550 and 3500 share bell housings... right? The 3550 may be a better choice if so.

On the NV3500 the bellhousing is one peice with the front half of the transmission, is the 3550 the same way?

Hmm I know you can use a 4cyl dakota bell housing to put a 3550 behind a 2.5 so I thought the v-8's would be the same way.

3500s are all one piece bellhousing/cases. 3550/AX15 are the ones with the separate bellhousings. A Dakota with a 3.9/AX15 uses the same bolt pattern as a 318/360. But it also has the starter being on the drivers side like the 3500. Just order a set of block hugger headers for a 318/360 to clear the starter.

The shifter is also at the rear of the transmission on a AX15/3550. The 3500/4500 both have the shifter in the middle of the transmission, which puts the shift tower right about under the VIC in a Grand. Best case scenareo you end up cutting out the ashtray, and putting a heck of a bend in the shifter to get it to clear.

Heres a good site for bellhousing compatablilites for the AX15/3550 I found in my research.

http://highdesertoff-road.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=65

Nahh the NV3500 has a rear mounted shifter also. It's almost identical to the AX-15 IIRC. And something that's a pretty wild concept is I found out it seems the 4.7 uses the same bellhousing pattern as the 5.2/5.9. There's almost no info anywhere on it, I couldn't find anyone saying anything but my NV3500 came out of a 3.9 and is bolted to my 4.7. The 3.9 is supposed to be a direct match to the 5.2/5.9. Pretty interesting!

Here's my NV3500 when I was doing my swap:
http://agitatedpancake.com/random/jeep/radswap/DSCN3935.jpg

I'm familar with NV3500's as used in the Chevy S-10.Do you think there's any real world difference in strength between a AX-15 and NV3500? A few have bitched about the NV3500 in the last of the XJ's
Is a 3550 an up grade of the 3500 or just different model ,same gears?

Nahh the NV3500 has a rear mounted shifter also. It's almost identical to the AX-15 IIRC. And something that's a pretty wild concept is I found out it seems the 4.7 uses the same bellhousing pattern as the 5.2/5.9. There's almost no info anywhere on it, I couldn't find anyone saying anything but my NV3500 came out of a 3.9 and is bolted to my 4.7. The 3.9 is supposed to be a direct match to the 5.2/5.9. Pretty interesting!

Here's my NV3500 when I was doing my swap:
http://agitatedpancake.com/random/jeep/radswap/DSCN3935.jpg


Interesting as this one has the shifter farther forward. 3500 came from behind a 318 in a Ram. Must be more a few different case layouts.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f227/ratmonkey1999/IMG00031-20090611-1216.jpg

http://jeepdex.com/partsmanuals/2678155-Jeep-1994-1996-MOPAR-Parts-Catalog.pdf

Look at the clutch section for PN's for 93/94 grand cherokee manual trans parts.

Did this end up going anywhere? Anyone else with experience doing this?

I'm playing around with the idea for my 5.9 ZJ..

Would I expect any issues regarding the electronically controlled 46RE trans the NV4500 is replacing?

I know my 5.9 is healthy and thats the reason I bought the Jeep in the first place..and I thought I wanted an auto but I'm not a huge fan of a ~2.74 first gear..and it's acting a lil funny already shifting to 2nd..

With 5.13's and a 4.0 case, I'll end up with the same crawl ratio as my old XJ with NV3550, 4.88's & 2.72's... :rainbow:

I guess an NP435 is the easiest choice but no OD and not that great for DD..I'm not DD but I want my rig capable of long excursions and generally roadworthy..

I suppose an easier solution to the crawl ratio would just be a better crawlbox..
i have a '97 ZJ and swaped the auto out for the AX-15 a few months ago and have been usein it as a DD since then and has been a blast, although i have the 4.0 strait 6, you might run into some of the problems i had when converting it to a manual. feel free to ask any questions, a few people on this and the jeepforum helped me get my ZJ running and driving and pretty much everything works and interior looks pretty stock also

I put a ax-15 behind the 4.0 in my zj. I am usung the center consol from a 97 cherokee keeps the stock look located the shifter well and you get that wonderfull quarter holder