I ran a 463 w/ ron's alkey toilet and 8qt. wet sump oiling for 4 years, changing the Kendall oil after every weekend. The engine received new bearings every winter. For the 2009 season I will be running a hat inj 540 on a dry sump. This engine will have bearings rolled in evey 5-6 passes. My question is this. Since bearing damage will occur from compression, not oil, why not just run Valvoline or such for cost savings on the oil changes after each event?

i guess that might not be a bad idea.

How much condensation gathers inside the engine? a buddy of mine used to run blown alky, and would warm the motor up with gas before final shut down to try and keep the condensation down. I dont know if it worked, though. He seemed to think so, but he has been known to do some weird shit.

I guess I'm worried about the "other parts" will the cam & valve train suffer water "heat" damage in short runs being cheep on oil?

Edit: as for shut down we spray WD-40 in the intake 'til she puffs smoke to lube the cylinders

That I dont know.

Brad-Penn oil is like 5 bucks a quart, but its worth it. at least for a gasser... if I had to change oil every 10 passes, id be pissed, though.

I ran a 463 w/ ron's alkey toilet and 8qt. wet sump oiling for 4 years, changing the Kendall oil after every weekend. The engine received new bearings every winter. For the 2009 season I will be running a hat inj 540 on a dry sump. This engine will have bearings rolled in evey 5-6 passes. My question is this. Since bearing damage will occur from compression, not oil, why not just run Valvoline or such for cost savings on the oil changes after each event?

The condensation that accumulates will reacte with the oil and it will become acidic possibly causing the bearings to become brittle and fail prematurely.

but when you have a grand total of 30min-1hr why is "premature" bearing failure an issue?

ill bet 1-10 that the $2 off the self at the gas station oil comes out crystal clear after that amount of abuse and run time.

The way I understand it is the oil after after it has been contaminated with water becomes acidic. The increased aciditiy will cause erosion on the aluminium bearing surfaces.

If you have ever seen aluminium get that chalky appearance this is erosion caused by an acidic environment.

It not premature failure like you would typically see with a bad bearing, but it will casue the bearing material to degrade at an accelerated rate.

Here is a copy of a paper I had written up for one of our Maintenance Commitee meetings in regrds to water contamination.


The Effects of Water Contamination
In a lubricating system, the two most harmful types of water contamination are free and emulsified water. In journal bearings for example, the incompressibility of water relative to oil can result in a loss of the hydrodynamic film that in turn leads to excessive wear. As little as one percent water in oil can reduce the life expectancy of a journal bearing by as much as 90 percent. For rolling element bearings, the situation is even worse. Not only will water destroy the oil film strength, but both free and emulsified water under the extreme temperatures and pressures generated in the load zone of a rolling element bearing can result in instantaneous flash- vaporization causing erosive wear to occur.

Under certain conditions, water molecules can be ripped up in to their constituent oxygen and hydrogen atoms as a result of the high pressures generated in the load zone of a rolling element bearing. Due to their relative small size, the hydrogen ions produced by this process can absorb onto the surface of the bearing raceway resulting in a phenomenon known as hydrogen embrittlement. Hydrogen embrittlement is caused by a change in subsurface bearing metallurgy. This change causes the bearing metal to become weak, brittle, and prone to cracking beneath the surface of the raceway. When these subsurface cracks spread to the surface, the result can lead to pitting and spalls.


The Effects of Water on a Lubricant
Not only does water have a direct harmful affect on machine components, but it plays a direct role in the aging rate of lubricating oils. The presence of water in lubricating oil can cause the progress of oxidation to increase ten fold, resulting in premature aging of the oil, particularly in the presence of catalytic metals such as copper, lead and tin, (these are bearing materials). In addition, certain types of synthetic oils such as phosphate esters and dibasic esters are known to react with water, resulting in destruction of the base stock and the formation of acids.

It is not just the base oil that can be affected by moisture contamination. Certain additives such as sulfurous AW and EP type additives and phenolic antioxidants are readily hydrolyzed by water, resulting in both additive mortality and the formation of acidic by-products. These acidic by-products can then cause corrosive wear, particularly in components containing soft metals such as Babbitt, brass, and bronze used in journal bearings and other components.

Great tech I really enjoy reading your posts. Your knowledge of petroleum on the molecular level is impressive thanks for sharing with us.

no kidding.

This is good tech!

no kidding.

This is good tech!

I have some more good tech in the general 4x4 section for hydraulics.

I spend a great deal of my time troubleshooting and analyzing equipment failure in the oil industry. I have tons more shit that I have wrote about and researched. Alot of it is geared towards oil field equipment but the same genral philosphies apply here as well.

I will post more goodies when I get a chance, I have a real good write up I did on lip seals with pictures and such.

The water comtamination issue would make it cost effective to change oil on any engine that may be exposed to increased moisture content ie. marine racing engines and mud racers. Love the tech, keep us informed on the zddp isssues as this is important to most who are running older flat tappet cams in our engines. When we race the boat we pack ice on top of the fuel tank and keep the boat under an easy up. We get more mileage out of our fuel, but everybody thinks we are nuts for doing this.

You gota pay to play. Dont go cheap on a pricy part of the game.