Does anyone know if the longfields are holding up to the chromoly axles from All Pro?

Dont know about AllPros but they arent holdfing up to CV Unlimited inners (hardened). I saw a guy brewak one at ERoCC and he said he had broken one before.

Still not a bad combo!

Originally posted by ROCKTACO
Still not a bad combo!

I would rather replace an inner than a 3rd member though. Im gonna be a sceptic on longsfields and chromo inners until I am sure the next thing to go wont be my 5.29, detroited inner.

TyTy, I guarantee if you wheel your truck hard enough, you'll probably grenade the Detroit before you break a hub or gearset if you snap a short side inner. Ask me how I know.
Chris G. and I just swapped out my fronts to the cromo ones on the lakebed at the Hammers last weekend. Didn't get a real chance to test them since I blew my rear R and P. They look no different than regular junkyard axles, but hopefully they'll take the extra pressure. Time will tell. Not many guys are running them yet.

I will be installing my new All Pro chromo shafts this week. Here's why: We know that when an inner axle snaps, the shock load is so great that it shears the teeth off of a Detroit. Now untill super birfs, the detroit locker was the shit. What kind of shock load does that put to the ring and pinion? Its like hitting it with a 12,000 pound hammer. The AZ crew has had several ring and pinion failures recently. those guys have also had catistophic axle or hub failures prior to those gear failures. I think that by strenghtining the inners so they wont fail, I will reduce the chance of a r&p failure. I think I will now only have failures due to severe bind or wheel hop. Both of witch are things I can control as a driver. Now, if I break a super birf, I realize I may have voided my warrenty, but I am a firm believer in his product and would not hesitate to buy a replacement.

Stay tuned..... we will see if my theory proves out.

i installed mine at the hammers also. only had a chance to run part of sledge on them. i think they will raise the bar a few more notches. i doubt the ring gear will be the next fail item. myself, bobby long and others speculate that the inner cage will break well before the ring gear. bobby should be in the process of fail testing the whole front axle assembly including the hub on his testing machine with a strain gage. if a dana 44 8.25" is holding up to warn and ctm u joints then i think the toy 8" is up to the task as well. running a HP 4:10 would insure that. but i still think even with a 5:29 standard gear we have a ways to go until we see gears fail.

Keep in mind the V6 Diffs are a lot stronger than the 4Cyl units. Also Precision Gear is the only place I know of that makes true V6 gears. These housings weigh about 10 lbs more than the 4Cyl housings. This aditional steel along with bigger bearings helps hold the rig gear in place and reduces ring gear deflection.

If you going to build a 3rd member, just toss out the stock housing and start with a good V6 unit for the back and a Hy-Pinion for the front. Gears and lockers are only a little more so start with the good stuff next time you build a diff.

On my 93 4Runner I used V6 Diffs front and rear. I broke 9 birfields/Marfields but never had a problem with the diffs.

On my current rig I went with high pinion front and V6 rear and again it's been completly problem free.

Originally posted by zags
Now untill super birfs, the detroit locker was the shit.

Huh?

As I recall, Detroits will snap apart whether you have Super Axles
or not...they just need a good recoil.

Pat...what were the specifics of our R&P failure? You running 4 cyl
5.29s? Do you feel the setup was done well?

Jay

Originally posted by ROKTOY
Huh?

What I am trying to say is that since we fixed the weak link (birfields), failures are much more violent, causing more collateral damage. I think this is a decent tradeoff to reduce how often front ends fail. The chromo axles should futher reduce how often breakage happens. In the past, the Detroit could handle a birf failure more often than not. With an inner or outer axle failure, my observation has been that a Detroit is now more likely to fail at the same time. Also, the huge shock load caused by the increased violence of an axle failure can damage the ring and pinion which shows up later. I believe we are getting to the point where the Toy axle can handle "normal" rock crawling on 38's with minamal occrence of failure.

off topic, but anyone got a pic of an exploded full detroit? sheared teeth?

zags.

good point. the shock loads from a stock birf failing were hardly enuff to damage a detroit.

the shock load from a superbirf/cromo failure will likley do some damage to a detroit. which is exactly why you should be running a HP 4:10 with and ARB.

yes with the advant of superbirfs the toy front end is actually a capable axle. with a few more improvments we will probally end up with a very stout and desirable unit. i think we still have a ways to go.

i think the next item to build is going to be a strong cage in the birf.

Good input Larry. Definitely higher shock loads with the beefier axle components.

Takes more stress to blow one up, but when it goes.....quite the bang!

Get busy on the cage parts camo.

Jay

Originally posted by camo
the shock load from a superbirf/cromo failure will likley do some damage to a detroit. which is exactly why you should be running a HP 4:10 with and ARB.

I have seen an ARB fail after a shock load. A friend had a inner axle fail violently (Very LOUD) during a competition. They replaced the axle made in thru one stage, on the next the ARB developed a major leak and would not engage. That night we discovered that one of the epoxy plugs (for the air passages thru the carrier) had been spit out!

My guess is the shock broke the bond on the plug. I 'pluged' it with the TIG that night and he's never had a problem since. If you were building a 'bullet proof' rig, it might be worth the time to cap the passages a little more perminantly when you put it together.

(FYI - he blew the one by the carrier bolt).

Originally posted by ROKTOY

Get busy on the cage parts camo.

Jay

i have given the contact and info to bobby. hopefull he is working on it soon.

Aggro---here's a pic of my Detroit that lost the 15 little teeth ... http://www.dreamwater.com/zuk/detroitsoftlocker.html I have had this happen one other time back in Mar of 2000.

wow. NICE PIC!

Originally posted by ROKTOY

Pat...what were the specifics of our R&P failure? You running 4 cyl
5.29s? Do you feel the setup was done well?

Jay [/B]

Jay,
I know they were set up well. Sean King recommended a guy who did it over at Fly N Hi all day. Both of mine are 4 cylinder diffs with Genuines. I actually ran them for over a year and a half with no problems. Hammers twice, all the AZ stuff, and I wasn't easy on them. My rig just weighs too much and I'm starting to see myself hop more on stuff I can't make. That's not helping things. We actually ran Jack, Jack return, and did some 5k assaults on the dunes last weekend before I started to hear the weird vibrations from the rear.

Part of the hobby, pay to play. Zags is setting up my new rear this week at Kongs. Gonna see if 4WPW will warranty the gearsets without making me buy a master install kit. Shaved the rear housing tonight, no more oil leaks and leaking drain plugs for me. Real easy to do, just waiting on a diff to throw it back together.

Get that jungle gym together so we can go wheel sometime this year!


Zuk, I've got you beat, just don't have the pic handy. I completely blew apart both of the rings with the teeth on them and the corresponding interlocking center piece. I'm talking about 10 pieces per side. Luckily 4WPW warrantied it.

Originally posted by Chris Geiger
. Also Precision Gear is the only place I know of that makes true V6 gears. . U.S. gear makes them, and so does Richmond. After setting all of them up, only the Richmonds set up with the stock shim. unlike the unprecisions that need a shim thinner then toyota ever made. The U.S. ones well they are as always a good second choice.

Axle/inner axles/longs/rebuild/spacers $942 Thats some change for an axle youi still might break? Add in the V6 or high pinion 3rd ..even more....


How much for a D60 from a junkyard and a rebuild?

Anyone got a D60 and have it shaved and turned? How much did it cost?

Originally posted by pmurf1


Jay,
I know they were set up well.

Ok, sounds like they maybe just had a lot of hard use on them.

Jay

Originally posted by pvonburg
How much for a D60 from a junkyard and a rebuild?

I paid $700 for my Dodge 60 front, came with stock 4.88's and a welded carrier, but was missing both calipers, one caliper bracket, both rotors were toast, and had one lockout hub and one drive glange.

Anyone got a D60 and have it shaved and turned? How much did it cost?

I don't plan to turn mine, but shaving them is as easy as takign the time to cut, plate, and weld it back together. SOme have gone as far as to have the ring gear turned down 1/4" for even more clearance...

So has Bobby recieved a set to try out yet???

Yukon also makes a true V6 gear, I have them.