OK , so I've ditched the heater core, and now I have an opportunity to switch to normal radiator hoses instead of the weird four legged lower hose that the evil Rover engineers designed.

Here is what I'm thinking: replace the lower hose with a generic one going from the engine block to the rad.

connect the nipple behind the thermostat housing (currently going to the heater core to the overflow bottle.

think this will work? the current four-legged lower hose has a branch going to the overflow bottle, and another branch going to the heater core.

the only difference in my plan will be that it I will be connecting the overflow to the top of the water circuit, instead of the bottom. anyone see a problem there?

if the thermostat ever has an issue so will you, buy not providing a place for the anitfz to go ..psi will go up untill the "weak link" is found then mess every were and maybe even a burn or to for some poor person :eek:


pt xlate if needed

Wtf????!?!

Just connect it to the lower radiator hose. Where the out line from the heater core would have gone.

Yeah, I know I can make a loop... I was hoping to get rid of the four-pronged rad hose so I could run a generic one... what would happen if I connected the overflow to the thermostat housing? seriously, school me.

The fitting that is close to the thermo housing is an out fitting. It needs to flow back to the water pump. If you only connect it to the expansion tank it will not "breath"
Do you want to get rid of some stuff in the engine bay? Get a nipple put in the radiator for the T-housing fitting to connect to, by hose. Just get rid of the expansion tank. Get an inline fitting that has a radiator cap and install it in the upper rad hose somehow. Morosso makes this I believe. Connect an overflow tank to this of a smaller size. Maybe even a mountain dew bottle:shaking:

Remove radiator cap. Drive tube chassis frame buggy underneath cap. Replace radiator cap:flipoff2:

From personal experience, I would strongly suggest against removing the expansion tank. While trying to continue to try to drive to work while suffering from a cracked expansion tank and poorly flowing radiator, I removed the expansion tnak and plumbed around it. This resulted in regularly puking coolant from the cap on the fitting used to remove the leaking expansion tank.

While I do not advocate completely removing the heater function, if one insists, the easiest way to do it, IMO is to use a lower hose from a Vee belt engine that has a single tee, versus the serpentine engine lower hose with two.

I don't see a benefit from doing away with the expansion tank. The hoses are not the least reliable component on a Rover engine and have proven to be pretty reliable on many other brands, all the cool kids are doing it now! FWIW-the only lower rad hose I've had a problem with was a genuine Land Rover part!

Seems like work for no real benefit to me.

I do not intend to get rid of the expansion tank, but I will replace it with a smaller one. The heater is gone already, so the heater circuit does need to be dealt with...

I do not intend to get rid of the expansion tank, but I will replace it with a smaller one. The heater is gone already, so the heater circuit does need to be dealt with...

In that case, use the RRC non-serp hose and you're done.

The fitting on the intake manifold that used to flow to the heater core needs to circulate back to the water pump. If you want to tee it into the line going to the expansion tank that would work. What PT described in his hack to circumvent the expansion tank was not at all what I was describing. But if you want to retain the expansion tank its not worth going into. An older RRC say 89' might be a good choice as it is smaller and has a bottom outlet. There is a level sensor also it you choose to make use of it with a warning light.

I'll probably pick up a small expansion tank from summit or something... or maybe a Mountain Dew bottle... And a tee into the expansion tank for the heater core circuit sounds like a good idea. I think that's the way I will go when I get around to changing out that lower hose. Right now I'll just make a loop... No sense in replacing the hose if its still serviceable, I guess.

where do you think would be a good spot to stick a sensor for a coolant temp gauge (and for that matter trans oil temp and oil pressure)? I haven't decided yet whether I want to go mechanical or electrical on my guages. I'm thinking electrical, since its much easier to replace a wire if it gets torn or melted under the hood than a capilarry oil or coolant line.

And a tee into the expansion tank for the heater core circuit sounds like a good idea. Right now I'll just make a loop... No sense in replacing the hose if its still serviceable, I guess.

where do you think would be a good spot to stick a sensor for a coolant temp gauge (and for that matter trans oil temp and oil pressure)? I haven't decided yet whether I want to go mechanical or electrical on my guages. I'm thinking electrical, since its much easier to replace a wire if it gets torn or melted under the hood than a capilarry oil or coolant line.

If you use a lower radiator hose with a single leg, you can plug the hole in the intake with no ill effects, you will merely have removed a bypass circuit so-to-speak. The coolant flow will continue as it is intended. If you look at the cooling flow circuit, the heater takes hot water from the top of the manifold, runs it through the heater core and returns it to the lower hose where it feeds the water pump. There are numerous other circuits that have similar flow patterns, if you're worried about disrupting the flow route.

W/R/T coolant temp gauge, if you are not retaining the original warning light (I don't remember what you said last night, it was late for me!), the port on the top of the intake is ideal. If you plug the outlet on the intake, that would be an ideal point as well. If you retain the circuit from top of intake to lower radiator hose, a tee in that circuit would be as good.

W/R/T engine oil pressure, the port on the front cover is as good as any. Autometer P/N 2869 IIRC is the "Metric" adapter to convert the BSPP female fitting to 1/8" NPT, from there, one can easily enough go to a tee and have provisions for a gauge sensor and warning light sensor. The warning light switches are available at Napa for about $5.

W/R/T Trans temp, the sensor located on the cooling line seems like a fine place for a sensor. If you're using electrical gauges (something I support for just the reasons you indicated) adding another one is simple enough, find someone parting a truck and get the hose fitting with the port, add a JIC/hose barb/compression fitting and you're ready to go. edit:I know we've discussed your coolers, but again, short-term memory owns me. What I'm suggesting is that you replace one of the fittings on a cooler with the factory fittings with the provision for the temp sensor. Some of the electrical sensors do not intrude into the flow of fluid as most of the capillary (or aneroid which is probably the more correct term) gauges do, otherwise, you'll need to provide a means to allow for suitable immersion of the sensing element while simultaneously not impeding flow of precious bodily fluids. A surge tank type of reservoir might be an idea, if you don't want to put the sensing element in the transmission pan (which is probably the ideal place for such a device) for fears of snagging it or its wire while wheeling-not something I want to even consider!

No, those aren't topics I haven't addressed in AFI's truck project!:D

Pendy-you continue to amaze me by your ability to know what I had done and call it a hack-especially as it was very nearly identical to what you had described. I guess I'm just not as good at it as you and that's why it puked coolant. Just because I didn't buy a fitting made by Moroso but had a small-town rad shop put it together for me doesn't mean it didn't do the same job and serve the same purpose. Cooling systems on these trucks are fragile enough. Deviating too far from original can be risky.

If I was in Alex's position I would toss the failure prone plastic expansion tank.

then I would get rid of the 4 legged monster of a lower hose and replace with a simple standard hose.

then I would use a small tank like this http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=HRE%2D3424&N=700+115&autoview=sku

routed from the fitting on the manifold.

this would allow for easy filling and bleeding of the system plus give you a standard Stant cap so you could play with cap pressure if needed.

I would also gut the thermostat and just keep the ring to restrict flow...lets face it he dosent need heat and then he wouldent have to worry about a bad thermostat causing the system to fail. the only time that may cause a problem would be in the coldest temps of winter where the engine might not reach temps to go into closed loop operation, but I really dont think Alex plans on much winter wheeling.

This is wrong and bad advice. Theis circuit need to be present for proper cooling. The bypass circuit needs to be active that used to run through the heater. This is an old lesson learned from the 93' D110's that used to close this circuit off to improve the A/C function and it caused overheating problems. This is my experience speaking, over 20 years working on these trucks. I can't quote the reasons from a RAVE disc but you can take my word for it!

PT you yourself described your 'experiment ' as an accumulation of parts and fittings with a clogged radiator doing the heat transfer. The morroso part has a fitting to plumb to an overflow tank that will let the system burp itself when it needs to occasionally. And it would clean up the engine bay alot for a tube BTruggy.

A spade is a spade

If you use a lower radiator hose with a single leg, you can plug the hole in the intake with no ill effects, you will merely have removed a bypass circuit so-to-speak. The coolant flow will continue as it is intended. If you look at the cooling flow circuit, the heater takes hot water from the top of the manifold, runs it through the heater core and returns it to the lower hose where it feeds the water pump. There are numerous other circuits that have similar flow patterns, if you're worried about disrupting the flow route.


Pendy-you continue to amaze me by your ability to know what I had done and call it a hack-especially as it was very nearly identical to what you had described. I guess I'm just not as good at it as you and that's why it puked coolant. Just because I didn't buy a fitting made by Moroso but had a small-town rad shop put it together for me doesn't mean it didn't do the same job and serve the same purpose. Cooling systems on these trucks are fragile enough. Deviating too far from original can be risky.

there is a guy near me with a almost 400 hp rover motor in a MG that has this curcuit closed off and he has had no cooling issues from all the conversations we have had?

If you really felt is was that important you could also route it back to the radiator into a upper raidiator hose resevoir like a old ford style.

the lower hose and the plastic tank are both weak links in the rovers cooling system IMHO I would dump them for sure.

Pendy:
How has Floyd handled this in his MG? Did he plumb the heater similarly to the Rover setup? I don't remember if he had a Vee belt engine or serpentine.

When I conducted my "Experiment", it was due to mechanical failure of the expansion tank. The radiator issues did not arise until many months later. The Moroso fittings I am most familiar with do not have provision for expansion tank plumbing.

As I said to Thom earlier today, were the weather conditions more mild, I'd plug the heater hoses and let 'er rip! (I have extra engines!)

Cheers,
PT

I want the cooling system as robust as possible (within reason).. the electric fans are going to be deleted on mine, so I don't want it running any warmer than necessary.

You could gut the thermostat-it would be the same as having a bleeder circuit.

If I was in Alex's position I would toss the failure prone plastic expansion tank.

then I would get rid of the 4 legged monster of a lower hose and replace with a simple standard hose.

then I would use a small tank like this http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=HRE%2D3424&N=700+115&autoview=sku

routed from the fitting on the manifold.

this would allow for easy filling and bleeding of the system plus give you a standard Stant cap so you could play with cap pressure if needed.

I would also gut the thermostat and just keep the ring to restrict flow...lets face it he dosent need heat and then he wouldent have to worry about a bad thermostat causing the system to fail. the only time that may cause a problem would be in the coldest temps of winter where the engine might not reach temps to go into closed loop operation, but I really dont think Alex plans on much winter wheeling.

Pendy:
How has Floyd handled this in his MG? Did he plumb the heater similarly to the Rover setup? I don't remember if he had a Vee belt engine or serpentine.

When I conducted my "Experiment", it was due to mechanical failure of the expansion tank. The radiator issues did not arise until many months later. The Moroso fittings I am most familiar with do not have provision for expansion tank plumbing.


As I said to Thom earlier today, were the weather conditions more mild, I'd plug the heater hoses and let 'er rip! (I have extra engines!)

Cheers,
PT

Whatever

I want the cooling system as robust as possible (within reason).. the electric fans are going to be deleted on mine, so I don't want it running any warmer than necessary.


I explained how I would do it. The peanut gallery here has their ideas. Somewhere in the middle I guess you'll find your way.

Are you going back to mechanical fan? Still got a good shroud I hope. You know the thing about an open BTruggy design up front is you open the cooling system up to more problems. The radiator likes to recirculate hot air from the engine compartment to the front of the radiator and causes problems for heat transfer. Can you keep this in mind when you build the front and give the radiator some sort of an intake area to prevent recirculating hot engine bay air? A closed hood and fenders creates a funnel that draws fresh air through the radiator. You will not have that anymore. It will be more of an issue back and forth to the trail head. But can eventually creep into the wheeling motion as well. Something to consider. As much as I hate electric fans they can help with this problem sometimes.

I'm using the stock clutch fan with shroud.

Hopefully I will now actually have better airflow, as I am getting rid of the two 11" B&M plate trans coolers (used for power steering) that sit in front of the radiator. I'll be switching to a heatsink style cooler instead.

we'll see how it happens... I'm going to need an excuse to rebuild something down the line anyway.

I'll probably pick up a small expansion tank from summit or something... or maybe a Mountain Dew bottleThe only problem I see is, where are you gonna find an empty Mountain Dew bottle?