So I'm up in the mountains and my Range P38 4.6 MY 2000 has decided to die on me again. This is the third time a rangie dies on me in this village and it is getting old.

Anyway, drove here without incident Friday night/Saturday morning. Ran some errands locally Sat with no issues. Today, battery was dead and it refused to start even after a good charging.

I have been having issues with battery drain lately, and it may be related to a bonnet lock sensor that is out of adjustment and frequently triggers the warning for bonnet not closed. I guess this keeps the BeCM from going to sleep which drains the battery.

I have noticed a new sound under the car while idling, which I read as a slight scraping but it could be cats rattling or something similar. It could also be the CPS hitting the teeth at the flexplate?

Starter runs fine with newly charged battery but not a hint of firing up. I pulled a plug cable and laid it close to a bold and watched for spark (dark outside). Nothing.

Not much done the the car lately, but topped up the oil, replaces a bulb, mounted the roofrack and hooked up some extra ligths Friday and on Thursday we finally busted the superlocked rear passenger door and installed a new lock. Some spectacular air chisel work and ultra violence, but I don't see any of this affecting the starting?

Fuses and chrash switch for fuel pump appear OK.

So, any advice highly appreciated. I'll be here for a few days and ordering spares for here is thinkable. There is a local mech in the next village with a couple of Rangies in the yard and a test computer that I could call.

Convincing the insurance company to haul a dead Rangie home 600 km from the same place for the third time in three and a half years may be a challenge. If I know where to start, I will try to fix it here.

Do BeCM's die on these later models? Climb under to check CPS? Play around with relays? Fuel pump is less than 2 years old and about 60,000km (~40,000 miles) so I rule that one out. I would check for fuel pressure, but I don't know where to find the schrader valve on the later Thor engines?

BeCMs were most likely to fail on early '95/'96 models and early 2000 models, but they usually failed with respect to lights and alarms, not cranking-on the later models.

The battery failing is most likely due to the dodgy bonnet switch-this can be corrected surprisingly often with brake parts cleaner and white grease!

The no-start condition with no spark is not easy to fix without a computer as there are many things that could be wrong and you'd have no real idea as to what. That said, I do find the Motornics CkPS to be less reliable than the GEMS. It might well be worth the ~$100 for a new CkPS and the ten or fifteen minutes it take to R&R it. The cover bolts are 7 m/m (IIRC) and the nuts that hold the CkPS proper are 8 m/m nuts. The spacers go between the nuts and the sensor.

The trigger wheel for the Motronics engines is not like the GEMS, ie, no real teeth. The sensor rides in a groove machined in the flywheel. Every four or five degrees, there is a hole bored in the groove (imagine beads on a string, if you will) the seosr detects the opening, rather than a tooth like the GEMS engines.

If you have access to a voltmeter, you can test the CkPS sensor by looking for an induced voltage it's a sawtooth wave. At the least, you should see a millivolt signal as you crak the engine over.

Update:
Fuel pump runs with a piece of wire in place of the relay, but only then.
I filled two liters of water in the battery :grinpimp:
"Hard reset" by disconnecting the battery and shorting pos and neg in the car didn't help.
Still no life from engine management even with charged battery and frisky starter running.
Local guy with Landrover diagnostics on his way here and my man back home on standby on the phone.
CkPS ordered, should be here around Thursday. If we manage to start it without changing the sensor, I will have a critical spare to carry for future use. It is $100 _including_ 25% sales tax over here.

I have good hopes I will not have to make that call to the insurance company.

My biggest concern right now is that I'm to well fed to get under the truck in low mode and I don't carry jack stands.

Be aware that unless the guy who's on his way has a computer I don't know about, there is no way to really test the CkPS without connecting directly to it.

In spite of it being a critical component in running the vehilce, apparently, no manufacturer has seen fit to provide an output to the diagnostic connector so that one can confirm/deny the condition of the CkPS. It's not like the ECU doesn't have an input from that sensor or anything!

BTW-given your tax, you paid less than I did from a trade supplier!

Reread your post. If the fuel pump won't run without intervention, you have a bigger problem than just a bad CkPS. I don't even consider the CkPS to be an issue unless I have everything else present, but still no spark.

Check fuse box for corrosion, it looks like you're gonna have your hands full.

The test computer registers 140 rpm while cranking, and the CkPS is supposedly the source for this data.

It claims to have a key/immobilizer/? issue. We think/hope that the marginal battery has helped system go into some obscure mode where the syncing doesn't work. Just realized I don't have the EKA code for this one, so I have to wait till the morning to try to break out of this mode by wiggling the key in the door.

If this fails, we may have a bad computer after all.

And yes, spares pricing is a jungle. This is from an authorized shop, and they get the part overnight. Not too bad. The lock I just replaced was cheaper this route than an independent parts supplier with no stock even in the UK.

Question about the CKPS:

If it was the CKPS and replaced, do the adaptive values need to be reset?

Look into the security system and alarm triggers. Based on the recent door latch replacement my schwartz is telling me something is causing the BECM to immobilize the vehicle. Wires damaged in the door harness? Faulty replacement door latch?

Your fuel pump circuit is not being powered up and you have no spark. This is classic security system interference.

Question about the CKPS:

If it was the CKPS and replaced, do the adaptive values need to be reset?

Usually no. Adaptive values are more dealing with air/fuel issues versus timing. The FSM says you do need to use the computer after replacing the CkPS, but I've done many and haven't needed the computer yet.

Wilsby-what diagnostic computer were you using?

PT

Usually no. Adaptive values are more dealing with air/fuel issues versus timing. The FSM says you do need to use the computer after replacing the CkPS, but I've done many and haven't needed the computer yet.

Wilsby-what diagnostic computer were you using?

PT

Never seen it before. The software brand was not Acacia, but something in that direction. Covers a lot of brands and is supposedly the OEM choice for a few brands.

The rev data was available thru the generic OBD2 interface in the SW.

Look into the security system and alarm triggers. Based on the recent door latch replacement my schwartz is telling me something is causing the BECM to immobilize the vehicle. Wires damaged in the door harness? Faulty replacement door latch?

Your fuel pump circuit is not being powered up and you have no spark. This is classic security system interference.

We do belive that the synching all the way from security system to ECU is stuck in some obscure software state triggered by the bad battery experience. It is not fully immobilized, yet the ECU doesn't wake up. Will try with EKA in the morning to hopefully get to a normal state in the computers.

Alarm and central locking from the key fob works as usual, yet the diagnosis says it may be the wrong key. It seems it doesn't like he transponder, and I guess radio interference can't be ruled out. It is in my private parking spot now, so I hope not, though.

The door latch seems to be working OK, including going into superlock and coming back up. It was ordered from a trusted authorized shop based on VIN. I wouldn't completely rule it out, but we do not think the door is the culprit.

Usually no. Adaptive values are more dealing with air/fuel issues versus timing. The FSM says you do need to use the computer after replacing the CkPS, but I've done many and haven't needed the computer yet.

PT

Thanks. Just curious.

Unfortunately I think this may be one of those cases where a "real" diagnostic computer is necessary- I know of no way to remobilize the security ECU using primitive early mesopotamian tools or eastern european electronic devices. PT do you have any suggestions?

Unfortunately I think this may be one of those cases where a "real" diagnostic computer is necessary- I know of no way to remobilize the security ECU using primitive early mesopotamian tools or eastern european electronic devices. PT do you have any suggestions?

LOL, it's not a problem for me. If the T4 won't handle it, the Rovacom-lite will. In the rare occasions the RCL doesn't do it, the Super-Scan II sure as Hell will get it done!

I'm in a similar boat and preparing to try to resync the ECUs to try to get the damned thing to start on its own.

There are many times where I wonder just how much help the computers really are! Old-school Brute Force troubleshooting wins the day!

Alarm and central locking from the key fob works as usual, yet the diagnosis says it may be the wrong key. It seems it doesn't like he transponder, and I guess radio interference can't be ruled out. It is in my private parking spot now, so I hope not, though.

uh-oh - you guys got any new public safety transmitters in the area ? TETRA transmitters were notorious for causing RKE problems in the UK a few years ago.

The RFI issue is more of a problem killing batteries than causing alarm problems, at least in my experience, this has been the case.

The alarm syncing isn't that difficult and is surprisingly enough carried out using the engine management system software, versus the BeCM as you might expect.

I don't know enough about the various diagnostic computers, but both the DEC Super-Scan II and the Rovacom-Lite will allow you to ggo through and renew the alarm synchronization pretty easily. Essentially, you are telling the egnine ECU to accept whatever alarm code it receives from either the BeCM or the 10-AS alarm system (or BCU in the case of a DII, we are talking Motronics here).

It could be the new door latch, but everytime I've run into this, replacing the latch was the magic step needed to fix the problem-usually replaced after the BeCM failed due to the latch failing and the remote receiver as well!

As much as I hate P38s, they have paid for a trip to the UK, a Series truck and several wheeling trips :flipoff2:

uh-oh - you guys got any new public safety transmitters in the area ? TETRA transmitters were notorious for causing RKE problems in the UK a few years ago.

Not that I know of, but there is shit going on all the time. This is a tiny place, but there is a fire station, a new police station, and they may very well have upgraded communications at the valley station of the big gondola just down the road from here. The telco boys do turbo 3G and other stuff, so I guess it is possible that we have some kind of interference.

As much as I hate P38s, they have paid for a trip to the UK, a Series truck and several wheeling trips :flipoff2:

Ha, ain't that the truth. It was a trip to Ireland for me, though :flipoff2:

I thought about all that time spent with the test light and multimeter every time I ordered a fresh pint of Guinness. :D

The RFI issue is more of a problem killing batteries than causing alarm problems, at least in my experience, this has been the case.

That may be so with vehicles in the US.

However, TETRA radios, the system favored by many, if not most, EU public safety organizations (fire, police, ect) operate at (or near) the same frequency of a whole generation of RKE (remote keyless entry). I recall a friend, who upon visiting a hilltop transmitter site near Swindon in Wiltshire UK, used the RKE to lock his rental Ford. It (unfortunately) locked and then needed to be towed back to the rental agency as it's immobilizer went totally brain dead from the interference scrambling the data stream from the keyfob.

He was later told that several of the contractor outfits removed and locked up the keyfobs from the service vehicles as they were having reoccurring problems when they got near (then new) TETRA sites.

Sounds suspiciously similar to Wilsbys problem, quote:

Alarm and central locking from the key fob works as usual, yet the diagnosis says it may be the wrong key. It seems it doesn't like he transponder, and I guess radio interference can't be ruled out.

Not much to add here. Are you running jumper cable or a battery charger to the truck while you are trying to set up the alarm. That would be my advice. And do not put it into superlock anymore until the problem is resolved. I'd be pulling the connectors and spraying them down to ensure good connection as well. BECM, fuse box etc...

With key-lock, then unlock door-enter vehicle-attempt start vehicle with door closed.

Good Luck

Not much to add here. Are you running jumper cable or a battery charger to the truck while you are trying to set up the alarm. That would be my advice.

I'd be pulling the connectors and spraying them down to ensure good connection as well. BECM, fuse box etc...


Good Luck

Ensuring adequate power when doing any diagnostics on a P38 is absolutely critical! Pendy hit it square on the head here. Most of the diagnostic computer manufacturers suggest either having the engine running during the entire course of diagnosis, or if not running, using a charger or jump box/cables.

He also made a wise reference to the fusebox. Fusebox problems on P38s can, and often do, cause myriad problems. The guys on RangeRovers.net even go so far as to suggest replacing the fuseboxes as a matter of course as a regular preventive maintenance step. While I won't go that far, it is a good idea to ensure that the feeds from the fusebox to the BeCM are in good conditon. Fusebox failure is so common, I keep one in stock-and I keep very few parts in stock.

However, TETRA radios, the system favored by many, if not most, EU public safety organizations (fire, police, ect) operate at (or near) the same frequency of a whole generation of RKE (remote keyless entry).


OK, I looked it up, TETRA works on 380-383 and 390-393 MHZ, dangerously close to the common 315 MHZ used on some Rover keyfobs. I believe some European Rovers may be in the 415 MHZ range. Front-end overload could be achieved pretty easily, given the low amplitude signals of the key fob in comparison to the amplitude of RF from a repeater or other base station transmitter, and probable poor design for the fornt-end of the receiver in the truck. I would imagine that Rover thought that the scramlbing of data would provide sufficient safety and didn't expect any RFI problems. Add just about any IF and you've got a recipe for RFI-induced failure on multiple levels!

Wilsby, when you last exited the truck before it began exhibiting these symptoms, did you use the key fob, or the key itself? If you used the key fob, i could well be RFI that caused your problem.

I'm pretty certain EU Rovers used RKE somewhere between 410-430 MHz - even closer to your typical TETRA frequency. It's been a while since I've addressed the RKE business but I think 315 was unauthorized outside NA and some Asian countries. Just an FYI...

Thanks guys!

Didn't achieve much today but here's an update.

Got the EKA code and wiggled it in multiple times without effect.

It is on a charger most of the time.

We tried with charger and monster jumper cables today. Starter spun a little faster, but no change. Also tried the code while on the jumpers.

Moved it a few metres downhill to the next electric engine heater outlet. No change.

Checked connectors at BeCM and ECU. Found some suspicious corrosion stains at some of the connectors on the ECU. No luck after 5-56 and some pulling and replacing, though.

Shifted around some relays between critical components and some not so critical ones.

No change in behavior whatsoever.

Pendy, I always lock it with the key fob and I have had it down in superlock after the failure. The door lock stuff works as advertised.

We're trying to ship a LR-specific diagnosis computer here.

Does anyone know for a fact that the CkPS provides the RPM data we observed on the generic diagnosis computer while cranking, or could the sensor still be at fault?

I would rule out the crank sensor based on the fact that the fuel pump is not powering up.

If it were the crank sensor, the fuel pump would power up but the injectors would not fire.

I would rule out the crank sensor based on the fact that the fuel pump is not powering up.

If it were the crank sensor, the fuel pump would power up but the injectors would not fire.

The only way that I know of to test the CkPS is to directly connect to it with a meter like a Vantage or O'scope. As a result of a recent problem with a DII, I ran the question of testing CkPS' past the manufacturers of both the DEC Super-Scan II and the Rovacom-Lite. Both claim that there is no output from the ECU to the diagnostic port to provide any means to determine status of CkPS. I find this curious, but OTOH realize that if the engine doesn't run, there can be no risk of excess emissions for the OBD system to tell us about.

That said, the Rovacom-Lite does have a data point listed as "Tooth Count"...:confused:

NONE of the three Rover-specific computers I have register anything during cranking so I can't comment on that issue. In fact, they seem to have brain farts immediately after cranking the engine so I assume that either power or communications are interrupted during cranking.

I do find it curious that it will crank. In the cases where I have been involved in P38s with alarm issues, they wouldn't crank, much less have the fuel pump run.

Pendy-get ready, this will be a target-rich environment for you :flipoff2:

From the LRU text on engine management:
"The ECM outputs an engine speed signal to the automatic gearbox, the SLABS ECU, the instrument pack and the ACE ECU. The signal to the automatic gearbox TCM is supplied via the CAN link, while the signals to the ACE ECU, SLABS ECU, and the instrument pack are carried via a frequency dependent digital signal.

The signal produced by the crankshaft position sensor is critical to engine running. Tere is no backup strategy for this sensor and failure of signal will result in engine stalling and/or failing to start. If the sensor fails when the engine is running, then the engine will stall, a fault code will be stored and details captured, of the battery voltage, coolant temperature at the time of the failure. If the signal fails when the engine is cranking, then the engine will not start and no fault will be stored, as the ECM will not detect that an attempt had been made to start the engine. In both cases, the tachometer will also cease to function immediately and the MIL will not extinguish.

During the power-down procedure, which occurs when the ignition is switched 'off'. the ECM stores details of the position of the crankshaft. This enables the ECM to operate the injectors appropriately to aid quick engine start, which serves to reduce emissions when the engine is cold."

Of course, all of this is suspect as I just found an error in the fucking textbook! I've come to expect errors in the ETM and occasionally in the FSM, but the LRU textbook? C'mawn!

The only way that I know of to test the CkPS is to directly connect to it with a meter like a Vantage or O'scope. As a result of a recent problem with a DII, I ran the question of testing CkPS' past the manufacturers of both the DEC Super-Scan II and the Rovacom-Lite. Both claim that there is no output from the ECU to the diagnostic port to provide any means to determine status of CkPS. I find this curious, but OTOH realize that if the engine doesn't run, there can be no risk of excess emissions for the OBD system to tell us about.

That said, the Rovacom-Lite does have a data point listed as "Tooth Count"...:confused:

NONE of the three Rover-specific computers I have register anything during cranking so I can't comment on that issue. In fact, they seem to have brain farts immediately after cranking the engine so I assume that either power or communications are interrupted during cranking.

I do find it curious that it will crank. In the cases where I have been involved in P38s with alarm issues, they wouldn't crank, much less have the fuel pump run.

Well, we did get a credible real time RPM reading while cranking. Could that signal come from anything but the CkPS?

Could that signal come from anything but the CkPS?

I can't imagine another source for that information!

Again quoting from the LRU text:
"The sensor react to a 'drilled reluctor' incorporated into the flex plate to ascertain engine speed and position information."

There we have it, presumptive proof that you have a correctly functioning CkPS!

Got confirmation that a testbook is in the mail to me. With some luck, it will be here tomorrow.

Don't tell my buddy I owe him a week in Ireland, a Series and a sea of Guiness. I hope he'll settle for a week in the ski place.

Got confirmation that a testbook is in the mail to me. With some luck, it will be here tomorrow.

Don't tell my buddy I owe him a week in Ireland, a Series and a sea of Guiness. I hope he'll settle for a week in the ski place.


If I'd know there was that much involved, I'd have sent you the T4, the Rovacom-Lite AND the DEC Super-Scan II.:flipoff2:

I'd even bring my wife along so your sister would be safe:grinpimp:

Just more pychobabble, where you can not even agree with yourselves.


Pendy-get ready, this will be a target-rich environment for you :flipoff2:

From the LRU text on engine management:
"The ECM outputs an engine speed signal to the automatic gearbox, the SLABS ECU, the instrument pack and the ACE ECU. The signal to the automatic gearbox TCM is supplied via the CAN link, while the signals to the ACE ECU, SLABS ECU, and the instrument pack are carried via a frequency dependent digital signal.

The signal produced by the crankshaft position sensor is critical to engine running. Tere is no backup strategy for this sensor and failure of signal will result in engine stalling and/or failing to start. If the sensor fails when the engine is running, then the engine will stall, a fault code will be stored and details captured, of the battery voltage, coolant temperature at the time of the failure. If the signal fails when the engine is cranking, then the engine will not start and no fault will be stored, as the ECM will not detect that an attempt had been made to start the engine. In both cases, the tachometer will also cease to function immediately and the MIL will not extinguish.

During the power-down procedure, which occurs when the ignition is switched 'off'. the ECM stores details of the position of the crankshaft. This enables the ECM to operate the injectors appropriately to aid quick engine start, which serves to reduce emissions when the engine is cold."

Of course, all of this is suspect as I just found an error in the fucking textbook! I've come to expect errors in the ETM and occasionally in the FSM, but the LRU textbook? C'mawn!

Testbook arrived today!

The ECU doesn't recognize the signal from the immobilizer. The condition is present now and it has happened 22 times.

Voltage to the ECU is only 11.5 V, is that a problem?

And just to be systematic, all door locks and outstations etc are fine.

Soo, I need to figure out how to bypass the immobilizer or get the code back into the ECU.

I don't remember how it is done with the Testbook, but with the other computers, there is a security learn mode where one puts the GEMS (or Motronics) ECU into this mode, turn the key off, turn the key on and the engine ECU reads the code from the BeCM and then one turns the key off again. when the key is next turned to start, the engine starts (or at least that's the way it's supposed to work-it sometimes takes several attempts).

Thank's, sounds reassuring. My buddy is doing dinner now after closing the shop for Friday, so I'll wait for him to finish.

Don't be discouraged if it doesn't work the first time, as I said, sometimes it takes several tries. The Help section of the Rovaocm-Lite makes reference to the fact that every bit and byte must be transferred correctly, otherwise, it won't synchronize, thus requiring multiple attempts. In my experience, it has been harder with the Motronics engines than the GEMS-the current project notwithstanding!

Did some research. I have a weather station, fancy name for a multi function thermometer with a remote outdoors sensor. The frequency is 433 MHz. The indoors unit kept losing the signal, but after replacing batteries in both units they stay connected. I assume the unit with better batteries has been transmitting like mad to reestablish connection.

The outdoors unit is within sight from my normal parking space at a distance of less than 10m.

Am I onto something, you think?

I used to have a parts listing of the various markets and the frequencies used by each, but of course, can't put my hands on it right now!

433 sounds darned near exactly the frequency used by the european market for CDL, etc. That is a part of the spectrum that is shared by multiple users.

It could certainly be confusing the remote receiver.

Yep, my buddy confirmed that this is a suspect frequency.

Batteries pulled from the thermometer thing and we did the resynch in Testbook. This hardware is from the previous century so my 11 amp charger could not keep up with the drain when I left the computer on in the car for a few hours. Even made the charger smell funny, and its -5C outside!

New try in the morning with a fresh(er) battery.

LOL, I thought the Rovacom-Lite was slow until I saw the full-blown T4. I love where it starts counting down, will hang, do everything but tell you to go get a cup of coffee and then, all of a sudden, bang! It's done.

Battery drain on P38s with the key on is astounding!

Did some research. I have a weather station, fancy name for a multi function thermometer with a remote outdoors sensor. The frequency is 433 MHz.

I can confirm that many EU vehicles in the 1990's and early 00's use this frequency for RKE - 433.92 MHz, precisely. That's why they were having TETRA problems.

Normally, the emitters we call 'Part 15' devices in the US (because they can transmit with no license under Part 15 of the US FCC regs - like remote keyless entry systems) don't put out enough power to be a bother to each other. But, you never really know for sure. Looks like you're on the verge of finding out whether or not it's a problem for you.

BTW, *many* devices made by fly-by-night outfits in China say they are Part 15 compliant but were never tested or certified and put out WAY more power then is legal. Maybe your WX station is one of those.

It fired at first attempt after some more charging!

It seems the good people at Bosch didn't envision that people wanted to know what temperature it is outside. Back to mercury, I guess.

Now, anyone knows if the immobilizer can be disabled? Any bad guy smart enough to figure out that my particular vehicle wasn't immobilized would not want to steal it, I figure.

Now plug that bad-boy weather station back in and see if it f**ks it up again !!

Now plug that bad-boy weather station back in and see if it f**ks it up again !!

Nope, I'm off to the hardware store for a different thermometer.

I have hade the thermometer thing for three years and parked Rangies next to it without incident. I think it was the combination of a drained battery in the Rangie and a drained battery in the mother unit of the thermometer that did it an'd I will not try to repeat it!

I would probably be OK for another few years with new batteries everywhere
but I will not take the chance. This place is far too cold and too far from home for me to take any chances.

Unless I can figure out a way to remote start the Rangie from the weather station to avoid those cold seats in the morning. :flipoff2:

In the "settings" page of the BeCM, the degree of alarm protection can be set. Off, immobilized, etc. In situations where things like door latches are causing problems for folks who don't want to shell out the big bux for a door latch, it is often as easy to merely disable the alarm and tell the truck the driver's door is always unlocked. It can still be mechanically locked, but the alarm can never be armed if the door is always indicated to be open.

These settings can be changed, even with a "locked" BeCM.

A product called battery buddie correctly installed would have prevented this from happening.

Or disconecting the battery cable overnight on a weak battery that has to much drain on it in a colder then usual climate. IE common sense:flipoff2:

" It looks just like a Telefunken U47 ! "

With leather?

In the CYO

Pendy, here's one for you:

A local craftsman I know just rang the doorbell. My rangie had all indicator lights on non-flashing. The key fob opened the door and the condition with engine cranking but not firing is back.

The charger is back on but the battery was sound enough to crank the engine without any strange messages or other problems.

Hardware stores were closed Sat for the holiday, so I didn't get to replace the thermometer, nor did I put the batteries back in the sender or central unit.

A close neighbor has a UK spec Defender, I believe MY 2001. It was parked briefly yesterday in our parking lot just meters from my rangie. Could this be interference between the two trucks or should I call the local police and ask if they have new radio equipment?

I still have the Testbook so I have good hope I will get it to run again. Still in the wee hours here and I'll wait for some daylight, though.

Are you wearing your tinfoil hat Adam?

When do I get pics of your sister?

I do not think it is interferance from the other vehicle. But your thermometer or some other more substantial radio interferance may be involved, it sounds like. Why not remove the battery cable? Or do you enjoy working on this truck out in the cold? Lock it first. Then remove the cable so it can not be serenaded by the local security contractor.

KISS

The input power leads on the BECM like to become loose and provide resistance to POWER up the brainfart box. Maybe that is helping your situation occur. You may want to remove the seat and pull the lid off the box to check the connections inside as well.

Thats all I got for now-

I can not wait to hear what the electrical terrorist quotes from the RAVE CD about this one!

The input power leads on the BECM like to become loose and provide resistance to POWER up the brainfart box. Maybe that is helping your situation occur. You may want to remove the seat and pull the lid off the box to check the connections inside as well.

Thats all I got for now-

I can not wait to hear what the electrical terrorist quotes from the RAVE CD about this one!

I'm not ruling anything out, but I do feel that the problem is related to this geographic location.

Truck is running again. Had accumulated 5 immobilizer errors.

I just called the local trucking company that does the snow plowing and sand spreading here. They will check if the guy operating the particular machine that has passed here a couple of times this week, and most recently early this morning, has some badass radio equipment. The company is not on any rescue radio, anyway.

Problably not related, but somewhat halloweenish - I have a number of lo energy outside ligths, some of them with light sensors that shut them off at dawn. Two of them were still on at 10:30 but got into normal state after swithing on and off.

Whatever it is, there is some shit going on with the radio environment here.

Re KISS, it may come down to that, but I'm not sure that getting the wife to disconnect the battery every time she drives the truck without setting off the alarm or immobilizing it is consistent with the principles of KISS. The Defender, which lacks immobilizer, is starting to look like the pinnacle of comfort...

Temps are back up above freezing, so it's not like we are having some extreme arctic conditions here.

Made a few calls:
Police is not using TETRA, no new equipment
Fire/ambulance hasn't changed anything
The lift company hasn't done anything new
There is a local company building a Wimax network, but that is on
3.4 - 3.5 GHz.

Noone is aware of any recent changes in the radio environment or new masts.

Anyone know what the frequency is for Wlan? My computer is always on and I'm not working from my regular place, much closer to a window this time.

The input power leads on the BECM like to become loose and provide resistance to POWER up the brainfart box. Maybe that is helping your situation occur. You may want to remove the seat and pull the lid off the box to check the connections inside as well.

Thats all I got for now-

I can not wait to hear what the electrical terrorist quotes from the RAVE CD about this one!

Check the underbonnet fusebox as well. Corrosion and vibration can work together to do the same thing.

This testbook is his spare unit so I will be able to keep it for a little while when we get back to Stockholm. If the problem comes back at home it is definitely something in the truck. If not, I may get a scanner to try to figure out what is going on up here.

I will also replace the battery but not until I have tried to repeat the problem at home.

Anyone know what the frequency is for Wlan? My computer is always on and I'm not working from my regular place, much closer to a window this time.

Home wireless networks are usually around 2.4 or 5.7 GHz - that's not going to do anything.

If you really think it's RFI related, are there any military facilities around you ? Had a situation in Texas one time where they fired up a new radar at Carswell AFB and trashed 315 MHz car alarms for miles around Fort Worth.

Tinfoil hat is on.

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc119/64rovr/G20/immob.jpg

make note of the "Passive Immobilization Coil".

Tinfoil hat is on.

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc119/64rovr/G20/immob.jpg

make note of the "Passive Immobilization Coil".

HEY! I'm the RAVE guy around here! Don't be moving in on my territory :flipoff2:

(Pendy can't pick on both of us at the same time!)

I heard you mention LRU texts as well, don't make me start referencing those :flipoff2:

I heard you mention LRU texts as well, don't make me start referencing those :flipoff2:

Oh, so you don't have any real-world hands-on experience either, but simply restate what you've read, eh?:flipoff2:

I only have a few of the textbooks so you've got me beat there.

Are you trying to tell me that RAVE isn't the final word in any Land Rover diagnostic procedure?

(Pendy can't pick on both of us at the same time!)


Thing is, you may be the same person. Someone check their IP address. You will waste less bandwidth if you just talk to the mirror!:flipoff2:

Someone check their IP address.

Please do.

Of all my faults, which you are more than quick to point out, doing such things is not one of them.

Are you trying to tell me that RAVE isn't the final word in any Land Rover diagnostic procedure?

Nope, IDS is.

Theres an acronym I could live without for the rest of my life.

If I could have just 1/10th of the time back I have wasted on module updates that crashed I would be a much more pleasant person.

Nope, IDS is.

Back in Stockholm with no new issues to report.

Before leaving, I spoke to the guy operating the sand spreader and plow machine as well as the local utility.

No fancy equipment in the front loader.

There is a power line two houses away, it terminates in the neighborhood and we have a sub station approx 20 meters from the parking space. They have not had any abnormal event in their grid, though.

Bravo on doing your homework on this one. Now everyone in the township thinks you're crazy though. Asking about radio frequencies and transmitters in the plow trucks driving by your house is grounds to assume that you sit in your living room tuning your TV set with the rabbit ears on your head! A true Rover owner.

Bravo on doing your homework on this one. Now everyone in the township thinks you're crazy though. Asking about radio frequencies and transmitters in the plow trucks driving by your house is grounds to assume that you sit in your living room tuning your TV set with the rabbit ears on your head! A true Rover owner.

Some of them have fancy radars that see thru snow. Not this one, though.
The hill was freshly sanded last time it occured, so there was correlation with heavy equipment passing by real close to the truck. It is a dead end gravel road and it happened sometime before 7:30 AM, so not much traffic except for this one.

Someone has yet to explain how the truck can get into a state where all turning lights are on without blinking.

I will wear my rabbit ears until this is resolved.

Sorry I missed that in your previous posts.

I have seen that as a symptom of a bad BECM. Or maybe you just have the switch turned to the parking light position? :flipoff2:

With the current lull in hard core tech I think I dare finish this thread.

Diagnosing electronics based on non-events is tricky, but I think Pendy was on the right track, as was one local mech who suggested I look for water in the right hand side door sill. I realized i had several litres of water in the spare wheel well and a cable with multiplug hanging loose slightly to the right after scrapping an old GPS which had the CD drive on top of the spare wheel. I assumed the cable was powerless, but realized that the GPS combo had permanent power when I cut a cable to remove the in dash display.

Soo, permanent power from somewhere around the ignition lock and intermittent water on the multiplug when parked on a right leaning sidehill seems to have been the culprit. Two weeks in the mountains over the holidays was uneventful and I have now returned the Testbook.

Uneventful with regards to the immobilizer, that is. In keeping with the tradition the waterpump (8 mo old) failed catastrophically halfway home. Late Sunday night, three kids in the truck and -24 C outside (do the math, it's cold). Luckily, recovery thruck drivers out in the woods know what they are doing. Within the hour, we had a flatbed wrecker deliver a SAAB wagon rental with the engine running and the heat cranked up to max as he hauled it out to us. Had the Rangie hauled to a local shop, the same that rented the SAAB and ordered some parts Monday. Picked them up Wed morning, cannibalized a fan at my friends shop and drove up to the shop in the bush where they had disassembled the Rangie already. Had the stuff installed and we refilled and burped the system together, drove home without incident. The shop charged me 3 hours and insurance takes care of 75% of the rental, so not too bad. From now on, I only buy genuine water pumps, though. They cost 5x the price of a pattern part, and I think I know why.

An interesting thread.

A colleague of mine had a similarly baffling immobiliser/remote locking related problem that only manifested itself when parked on his own drive. It turned out to be caused by his neighbour's wireless doorbell.

Glad you got it going. My yard is chock full of dead P38s with either dead EAS, electrical problems, or complete failure of electrical systems. Oh yeah, a Freelander with 108K miles with no spark as well.

How the company that brought us Series trucks, Defenders and Discovery series ones could also put out the P38 boggles my mind. I am certain that more folks have been turned off to Land Rover ownership due to P38s than any other of the marque.

Glad you got it going. My yard is chock full of dead P38s with either dead EAS, electrical problems, or complete failure of electrical systems. Oh yeah, a Freelander with 108K miles with no spark as well.

How the company that brought us Series trucks, Defenders and Discovery series ones could also put out the P38 boggles my mind. I am certain that more folks have been turned off to Land Rover ownership due to P38s than any other of the marque.

Oh no, they are totally addictive people movers and very competent winter trucks. Truetracs in both ends and glued spikes in dedicated winter tires are wonderful in the icy hills. I suspect I'm on some sort of local hit list, because I can floor it and accelerate uphill where local Audi cabs have to turn around. They don't seem to appreciate the fact.

I have in fact learned two lessons from the water pump incident. One - buy genuine. Two - even new parts can fail. It actually warned with funny noices but it never struck me that a new pump could go. I thought rattling cats or AC compressor due to low pressure, but never suspected the pump.

Re the immobilizer, I never got the opportunity to test it, but I suspect/hope that I could in fact reconnnect the transponder just by unlocking the door with the key and starting immediately. The second key was disabled after all the hoopla, and I got it going that way. Makes life simpler if you can leave the Testbook at home.

Series trucks? Don't forget BMW's involvement in the operation. They are very good at building expensive vehicles with substandard electronics.

I have in fact learned two lessons from the water pump incident. One - buy genuine. Two - even new parts can fail. It actually warned with funny noices but it never struck me that a new pump could go. I thought rattling cats or AC compressor due to low pressure, but never suspected the pump.



LOL, here we go again. Genuine versus aftermarket. I don't want to pay more for someone in Solihull to merely pick a part out of a crate and put it on a shelf, versus buying what could well be the exact same part, made in the same factory but put in a different box. The parts factory where I worked shipped parts in boxes that said Toyota, Ford, Jaguar, etc. The factory belonged to a former basketball player who is now running for mayor of Detroit:eek:.

The only cooling hose I've had fail prematurely had a Land Rover sticker on it. I've had Land Rover parts dead right out of the box (a BeCM no less-took almost three months for a credit from Land Rover, but they did finally admit that many shouldn't be shipped) and have had aftermarket parts last far longer than I had a right to expect them to.

I've had so many folks tell me that the P38 was the worst vehicle they'd ever owned. Sadly, the ridiculously high priced cost of service at the dealers and a common lack of independent support means too many have been neglected and the next owner inherits problems that could have been avoided with even a minor amount of regular service and repair of the problems.

Again, glad yours is back i the game again and moreso that you're had such luck with it.

PT

LOL, here we go again. Genuine versus aftermarket. I don't want to pay more for someone in Solihull to merely pick a part out of a crate and put it on a shelf, versus buying what could well be the exact same part, made in the same factory but put in a different box. The parts factory where I worked shipped parts in boxes that said Toyota, Ford, Jaguar, etc. The factory belonged to a former basketball player who is now running for mayor of Detroit:eek:.

The only cooling hose I've had fail prematurely had a Land Rover sticker on it. I've had Land Rover parts dead right out of the box (a BeCM no less-took almost three months for a credit from Land Rover, but they did finally admit that many shouldn't be shipped) and have had aftermarket parts last far longer than I had a right to expect them to.

I've had so many folks tell me that the P38 was the worst vehicle they'd ever owned. Sadly, the ridiculously high priced cost of service at the dealers and a common lack of independent support means too many have been neglected and the next owner inherits problems that could have been avoided with even a minor amount of regular service and repair of the problems.

Again, glad yours is back i the game again and moreso that you're had such luck with it.

PT

The pump wheel on the pattern part was of stamped steel, and in hindsight the bearings made funny noises from day one. The pump wheel had separated from the axle. The genuine pump has a pump wheel out of cast and machined bronze and is very quiet. Apparently more than the color of the box differs this time.

I don't think the P38 is bad, at least not the latter years. But anything this complex does not benefit from neglect and cheapo fixes, which is what they typically get from their owners.

Now, the replacement rocker shaft I fitted in the spring is a no name part from Paddocks...

Now, the replacement rocker shaft I fitted in the spring is a no name part from Paddocks...

I just had to replace a Genuine one that broke in three pieces-in an '01 P38 no less. You will probably do better with the aftermarket one. It's not as though Rover didn't have a major problem with rocker arms in the mid '90s.

Rabitt ears on again.

After more than five months and a lot of driving, it decided to die on me again in the exact same spot up in the mountains. Same symptoms, and my buddy shipped a testbook again which had it going in a few minutes. ECU lost contact with the key transponder and decided someone was tampering with the truck. Would crank but no fuel pump or ignition.

I never got around to replacing the battery the last time around. Other than that, I'm down to government conspiracies and aliens in trying to explain this.

We have a bunch of the new self reporting utility meters in the house and some cabling terminating inches from my hood. Any takers on a connection here?

Here's a suggestion...

http://cache.wists.com/thumbnails/8/53/853f91fd446557f8e2d788ef2c79413d-orig

We have a bunch of the new self reporting utility meters in the house and some cabling terminating inches from my hood. Any takers on a connection here?

I wonder if a key fob and receiver from another market (different frequency) might be required at this point. It sure sounds like there is some sort of RF interference. I had a client's truck with a very similar problem when I first opened my shop. He'd replaced door locks and two (TWO! :eek:) BeCMs before bringing it to me. I put in a new, rather than a used/unlocked BeCM and RF receiver and he's been driving it ever since with no further problems.

Might be worth a try, BUT, you may or may not be able to configure the BeCM to recognize the new fob codes. I don't recall if fob codes can be changed on a "Locked" BeCM. These days, BeCM failures are fatal to a P38 as they've become throw-away trucks, almost as bad as D1s.