I found this new public lands blog (from an attorney in WI) that I thought you might find interesting. It’s well done and he’s obviously pro-access. Good stuff and with links and references. It’s factual with plenty of back up data/links. Because he is an attorney, it does have just a bit of a legal slant/interpretation that is very helpful to understand some of the public land issues.

Check it out here: http://www.nationalforestlawblog.com/index.htm

Del

Learn something new every day.

BCHA's success story should be a wake up call to all groups that the Forest Service only listens to those users who show the capacity to actually litigate their concerns.

the Forest Service only listens to those users who show the capacity to actually litigate their concerns.

That's new? :lmao:

It's a sucky position to be in.

The Enviro-wacko's can sue all they want. They will armchair quarterback every single decision made by the FS. They can, because THEY DON'T HAVE TO WORK WITH THEM EVERYDAY!

We do. We work with the on-the-ground folks daily.

Imagine you have a great relationship with your local FS person. They do something that you don't like so you sue them. Do you think that FS person will ever work with you in a cooperative spirit ever again? NOPE.

They have nothing to lose and we have everything to lose.

Sucks to be us.

Are there any shrinks on the PBB? We need some serious working tools/coping skills to make this situation work.:D

Sucks to be us.

Are there any shrinks on the PBB? We need some serious working tools/coping skills to make this situation work.:D

Nutrition is the key! Consume Recommended Daily Allowances of the Three Basic Food Groups.
1. Beer
2. Wine
3. Hard Liquor

They've got us this far...............................

It's worked at Tellico where the FS have stepped back in the face of a legal challenge prepared by UFWDA, BRC and Southern.

Whether the FS staff take it personally is doubtful but maybe they need to be asked how they see legal challenges to actions that the FS take.

However, it reinforces the necessity to maintain the capability to question decisions and to have legal people who understand what four wheelers want. That's why UFWDA have Carla Boucher on our side and why we, as in all four wheelers, need to ensure that we can continue to pay her as times get tighter.

Membership fees and donations are all welcome and vitally important.

www.UFWDA.org

Whether the FS staff take it personally is doubtful but maybe they need to be asked how they see legal challenges to actions that the FS take.
We've got this wrong... why should we apologize for holding USFS and staff accountable for bad rulings?

IMHO, we need to be willing to work with USFS staff on the ground and in the districts AND be willing to slug it out with the Forest Supervisors and Regions in court. These are complementary -- not in contradiction.

Grass roots and organizations are similarly complementary!

Randii

For sure litigation is a legitimate tool for us -- albeit spendy. But when it's time; it's flat time.

On the other side of that is agency relationship-building and local member involvement. We do the relationship-building, the hard work on the ground, and the local member involvement before we launch the suits. Heck, it has to be that way on our side 'cause we just don't have the loose bucks and pro-bono attorneys to have it any other way.

And for me, it's the right thing to. Try honey and hard work first; sue as a last resort. Oh, and all the while, still relationship-building.

Del

Keep in mind one important fact....

In order to file suit, you must demonstrate harm. In order to demonstrate harm, you must show that you are adversely impacted by the decision.

See: http://www.muirnet.net/4x4voice/index.php/access-news/54-my-view/70-standing

The adage "Walk softly, carry a big stick" applied.

You MUST be involved at all phases before you can prove that you have suffered harm from the decision.

Litigation is a crap-shoot and should be the last option considered.....

Litigation is a crap-shoot and should be the last option considered.....
Agreed, but we've done the due diligence -- we participated in the scoping, in the NOI, wrote comments to the DEIS, wrote appeals to the FEIS, and watched the Forest blow us off. We've done the homework.

We've built relationships on the Eldorado, and continue to do so (admittedly, this is much easier on the ground than it is in the Forest Supervisors office -- we're doing great at the District offices, but Region keeps interfering unduly at the Forest level). Our grass-root volunteers are more involved than ever through FOTR and FOE and RTF is doing yet another leadership training...

We've done the good-cop work, and I'm stoked to see PLP step up as the bad-cop... the solution lies somewhere between. Hell, at this point, proving a WILLINGNESS to sue seems more important than actually winning (but I'll take that, too!). Read the response to Eldorado appeals and tell me that USFS isn't more scared of the anti's than they are of us! :rolleyes:

Del said it well: litigation is a legitimate but spendy tool, but when it's time; it's flat time. Heck, I'll agree with John, as well, that litigation is a crap-shoot and should be the last option considered, but doing all that work and NOT suing? I think it lets them off too easily...

Randii