When we use the guard we just bend it all to hell (and rip the boot). When we dont use the gaurd we RIP THE BOOT, either way we loose. Has any body tried to address this??????
Mayby one built out of 3/16" and is same shape as the old one but is held by the upper and lower knuckle bolts????
Seems like every time I see someone with rockwels their tires are covered in gear oil.
Any help???
Thanks, Dan

Originally posted by Daniel

they hava a onepiece boot that is pretty tough [/B]

I called you about 6 mo. ago and asked you about some one piece boots, because the zippers just plain suck. And you said sorry, you will have to live with the zippers.
Cool so we have a source for some good boots, I would rather buy them from you? But I doubt they are rock proof, I think we still will need a guard. I understand the whole seal thing but what comes out is the watery mix from the wheel bearings once the boots are torn and the deep water gets in.
I will work on this issue.
Thanks Daniel,
Daniel

If you've got U-joint style-shafts, you don't really need a boot at all, right??

Originally posted by elf_cruiser
If you've got U-joint style-shafts, you don't really need a boot at all, right??
Yes, I do have u-joint style axles. But if the boot rips the water will follow the stub into the splindle,
back to the wheel bearings.
Unless I am missing something?? I dont remember a spindle seal like a 60 has.
Dan

there's no inner spindle seal, but there is a grease seal that goes on infront of the outer wheel bearing. I'm sure if you left it submerged, water could get into the hub, but for short trips through mud/water, i think it would be fine.

Originally posted by elf_cruiser
there's no inner spindle seal, but there is a grease seal that goes on infront of the outer wheel bearing. I'm sure if you left it submerged, water could get into the hub, but for short trips through mud/water, i think it would be fine. where is this seal at ?the inner wheel bearing this is the only seal i know of. the mud and water come threw the tore boot then threw the spindle then into the wheel bearings from the outer bearing in.do you understand.:confused:

Originally posted by Daniel
Dan dibble: Order a seal kit from chucks trucks too you obviously need one... the boot cover for the birfield is to hold the grease in...for the timken ujoint it is to keep the dust out with a good set of seals the axle should not leak...

frankie you may not have one but there is supposed to be a seal between your inside bearing and your ujoint...

dan is talking about the grees coming out of the hole in the boots we pack them full.the gear dop is clean and is not leaking we have new axle seals on this axle.
is the other seal you speek of between the bronze bearing and the stub shaft?if so non of the axles we have torn down have them.what do you think:confused:

NO, there should be a grease seal on the outside of the outer bearing, underneatth the 3" hub nuts. If your hub nuts are directly against the outer bearing, then you are missing a grease seal. It is this seal that would somewhat protect the wheel bearings.

Mine don't have that outer seal either. Could it be that some have them and others don't because of different designs or it just got left out because someone decided it wasn't important?

I guess my next question would be: Can I just get a set of seals and put in there and are they the same ones that are on the inside?

Not the same seal. The outer seal is flat, and fits underneath the hub nuts. The inner bearing seal is cupped, and presses onto the spindle.

Thanks guys (Elf and Daniel)

UH, what about the guards???
:confused:
:confused:

Well, dan, my point is, fawk the guards, and the boots. Just run em open knuckle. Unless you are planning on leaving it submerged in water for hours, i don't think it would be a problem. Which is more of a hassle: repacking the wheel bearings occasionally, or replacing the rubber boot occasionally??

I still have repezza joints, therefore i need the crappy boots to keep all that grease in there. When i switch to U-joint shafts, the boots are gonna go bye-bye. Of course, i live in the desert...

UH, what about the guards???
Hey Dan, we've been thinking about fabbing our own and letting them go underneath a little more than the factory ones, maybe out of 3/16 or 1/4" an make it more of a skid plate type deal.

Elf, Yes I would very much like to dump the boots. I will try these mystery seals tha Daniel recomended. But I have been known to do some diving on occasion. I think some experimentation will be in order.
But if the seals dont hold the water out we know the boots will, (especially the non zippered ones)
In that case I am thinking the same thing as 350Samurai.
Dan

P.S. 350Samurai please keep me informed. As I will do the same.

sombody show me a padge from a manual on these seals menphis equipment said they show no seal at the outer bearing they supply 2.5 ton parts whats the part #.he may not know about them the guy i deel with was not in.thanks for all your help and i submerge mine for hours on end i need the boots.and the joints have no seal is this correct ?if so how do they keep mud out if you dont use the boots.?and if the boots where not needed then why are they there.?

Thanks daniel, apparently my description was not clear enough.

the guy at menphis equipment said he has seen no outer seal the guy i deal with was not in they sale rockwell parts .so do you have a part number for these seals or how about a parts page from the manual.we submerge our axle's very often we live in a very muddy enviroment also if the boots are not needed why are they there? and my axle joints have no seals at the cups so if we ditch the boots the joints will fail from contamination.so what now :confused:

I don't see why you need that outer wheel bearing seal if you use a gasket/rtv on the driveflanges.

With the U-Joint style axle shafts....is it necessary to pack the knuckle with grease so that the u-joint is riding in grease?

Are the u-joints not sealed and require constant greasing or what...

set me straight.

CJ

I was under the impression that the U-joint style shafts had grease seals on the bearing caps, just like any other U-joint. But, i do not have U-joints yet. Frankie says they are not sealed, that would mean that the boot is necessary even with U-joint style shafts. But frankie, the boots are there for repezza-stlye shafts like mine, and when rockwell decided to start putting in U-joint shafts, they prolly just didn't bother to change the knuckle design...

Originally posted by Dan Dibble
But I have been known to do some diving on occasion.
You don't say? Frankie, did Dan bother to tell you that he put your rig into a hole up to the top of the 44s? :laughing:

http://home.off-road.com/~mithrandir/trails/04-28-02/1096.JPG

This is after he backed most of the way out (worked 4 wheel steering against ruts to back out without gassin' it)... deepest point was over tops of tires.

My point is, they need to get this stuff sorted out, and should probably run all the seals they can get... Just giving you western types a feel for where these particular rockwells are going to wallow from time to time.

Originally posted by CJ Lagos
I don't see why you need that outer wheel bearing seal if you use a gasket/rtv on the driveflanges.

With the U-Joint style axle shafts....is it necessary to pack the knuckle with grease so that the u-joint is riding in grease?

Are the u-joints not sealed and require constant greasing or what...

set me straight.

CJ go back and read all of this thread and then if you do not understand let me know. ;)

dam dan no wonder my wheel bearings look like barnicals you fawker:flipoff2:

Originally posted by Daniel
with seal.. thats a new one on me.but it is a bandade to the problem if the mud stops at the seal then the spindle and spindle bushing still will be full of mud and the u joint as well if the boot is tore .
elf if the boots where only for repezza style axle then why is there no greas seal on the joint.?

elf if the boots where only for repezza style axle then why is there no greas seal on the joint.?

I thought they did have grease seals. I have just assumed that, though. If they don't, then i guess the boots are necessary after all...

No They dont have grease seals on the U-joints and I dont have those outer seals daniel. Did you include them with the bearings or what? Oh and that thing I sent you is on the way!:confused:

I would have to agree that I dont think that the boots are really needed for the u-joint style axles. I do nothing but bury mine in the mud and water and have only found a small amount of contamination in the hubs and none in the axle. :rolleyes: But Im not the best person to ask, I usually dont replace the bearings until they weld theirselves to the spindle!!!:D

ok this is just the way it is.!
if the rockwel had a seal between the stub axle and the spindle and you had seals on the u joint cups then and only then you can ditch the boots.!!!! a 2.5 ton does not have a spindle to stub axle seal or u joint cup seals so YOU MUST HAVE THE BOOTS !!!!

ok this is just the way it is.! if the rockwel had a seal between the stub axle and the spindle and you had seals on the u joint cups then and only then you can ditch the boots.!!!! a 2.5 ton does not have a spindle to stub axle seal or u joint cup seals so YOU MUST HAVE THE BOOTS !!!!
Well said, I'm keeping my boots, even if they do suck.:p

I definitely second that!!!!:rolleyes:

Hey Dan, we've been thinking about fabbing our own and letting them go underneath a little more than the factory ones, maybe out of 3/16 or 1/4" an make it more of a skid plate type deal.


Heres what I did. 2.25" wide 1/2" thick strap. I had a extra knuckle and we drilled two holes in the strap then used the studs from the steering arm. Bolted it down, heated it with a torch then bent it with a hammer around the knuckle. These have been on the rig for a few trips (some shorter than others :flipoff2: ) and have been great, not one tear. EVERY time I took Frankies buggy with the rockwells out I ripped a boot. I have driven in four feet deep water and no water in the axles or grease on the tires :D .

The only thing that might worry me is taking a hard hit and breaking the knuckle, but time will tell. They are getting scared up, but looking like a good mod.

:flipoff2:

:p

:grinpimp:

Dan,
When you guys run out of suppliers for boots, there is a company called International Bellows that will make you some out of whatever material you wish, with or without zippers. They are usually reasonable, but like any other industrial supplier, the more quantity you buy the cheaper they will be. I don't have a number off hand but you can do a search and find it.
David

I like the gaurds

If somebody gets a hold of International bellows and figures something out let me know. I would be interested in getting some.

Since the seal topic came up. The inner tube seals have got to be the dumbest design I'v seen for installation. I've been debating on machining the outer flange so the tube seal could be installed from the inside on of the knuckle instead of going in from the inside. Or does anyone have some tricks for installation. Do any of you see problems with these seal regularly.

Dan,
Looks good;but, it still leaves a lot of the boot exposed. I used the orginal guards;but, I plated them with 1/8 plate from top to bottom from bolt to bolt. I used two pieces of 1/8 that were 2 inches and 3 inches wide. I heated them up and bent them around the guard. Welded them together all the way around. I will post a pic tonight. They hold up very well. I have ripped only 1 boot since Labor Day of last year(probably at least 12-15 trips) since doing this.brian

Dan,
Looks good;but, it still leaves a lot of the boot exposed. I used the orginal guards;but, I plated them with 1/8 plate from top to bottom from bolt to bolt. I used two pieces of 1/8 that were 2 inches and 3 inches wide. I heated them up and bent them around the guard. Welded them together all the way around. I will post a pic tonight. They hold up very well. I have ripped only 1 boot since Labor Day of last year(probably at least 12-15 trips) since doing this.brian


Have any pictures?

The "mystery seals" that elf is speaking of go on the rear axles. They are used to keep gear oil out of the wheel bearings. The gear oil would probably get out the hub/spindle seal. Frankie tear down a rear axle, the seal is between the innermost hub nut and the out wheel bearing. It is even keyed like the hub nut lock ring. All you boys run rear steer, thats why you've not seen them.

The "mystery seals" that elf is speaking of go on the rear axles. They are used to keep gear oil out of the wheel bearings. The gear oil would probably get out the hub/spindle seal. Frankie tear down a rear axle, the seal is between the innermost hub nut and the out wheel bearing. It is even keyed like the hub nut lock ring. All you boys run rear steer, thats why you've not seen them.

I run the "mystery seal" on both my front ends..My "front" front end was brand new and had them in it. My rear "front" I put the seals in out of a rear. I will take a picture of the seal tomorrow and post it tomorrow night. I gotta go to bed....

pics of the seal which goes out at the end of the spindle between the outer wheel bearing and spindle nuts.
First pic shows the part number. Pic 2 if the front side and pic 3 is the backside.

those came out of my front as well. i was trying to remember if i had pulled anything like that or not during disassembly, but i remember the keyed part and sure enough there were two sitting in my pile of front parts. they may have been added at some point though, mine have obviously been dismantled before considering they had 1 birf style shaft and 1 u joint. good ideas for the guards, i'll be adding something like that to mine. i'd really like to find a fairly simple solution to ditching the boot. steve posted some greasable joints a while back that seemed the may work? dan, any reason you chose studs over bolts to retain your guard? seems that's just another 1/4-1/2 inch or so hanging down to grab rocks and threads to mangle...

UPDATE: I still have not torn a boot. And have had zero problems with this mod. NO LEAKS. :p :flipoff2:

Dan

would there be anything different u would do next time (longer plate of steel or anything?

would there be anything different u would do next time (longer plate of steel or anything?


No. The rears are 3" wide and the fronts are 2.5" wide. Both have worked great. I used the steel I had laying around, thats the only reason for the difference. I did see a guy that made some and he capped the inside of the "u" but It just looked like it filled up with mud.

Dan

Doing some Searching on this.... Saw this thread, so i figured i would post up what i did.

I got these from Screamin Seeman

A Quarter in there for size refrence

http://www.myjunkinyourtrunk.com/pictures/4Seater/DSCF1129%20(Medium).JPG

Got a linK or contact info? He a vendor here?

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=365577

Dan,
Here are the ones I made for my buggy using Daniel's one piece boots. Ten days at Tellico and no issues whatsoever.
http://www.midnights.net/albums/eddie122004/aaf.sized.jpg

Sorry, no pics installed.

This is what I came up with. Let me know if you have any questions.

Those look pretty nice Paul.Put a price with them.

Hey Seeman, I'd like a price on these boot guards...they are nice. Looked all over your site and couldn't find it.

Ive never seen a rockwell rig hit there boots before. I know they rip all the time im on my second set. Im thinking about the leather ones. I run with a large group of rockwell rigs to.

Ive never seen a rockwell rig hit there boots before.
I know they rip all the time.
then how do you suppose they rip ?
I have drug mine over pointy rocks several times that i know of, and more then that that i dont know of im sure.
im on my 2nd set as well. and i am putting guards and stronger 1 piece non zipper boots on my new rig.

This is what I came up with. Let me know if you have any questions.


need a price paul!!

JJ

need a price paul!!

JJ
they are $80 a pair from him.

Mite dry rott. And i have my steering maxed out. So it pulls them tight when i turn all the way.

I sell the guards for 80.00 per pair shipped to your door.

Another pic.

Those sure are pretty man...imma get some!!! $80 bucks a pair is chep as hell...my time to make something like that is worth more than that...

You do paypal?

Yep, my paypal is paulseeman@yahoo.com

http://www.sniperfab.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=306&zenid=28dc20ffbc77a7c3178b5c6691da78db

http://www.sniperfab.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=306&zenid=28dc20ffbc77a7c3178b5c6691da78db

Nice set, but why the hell run boot guards when you can run greaseable u-joints. Don't really see the need for boot guards. Just adds weight!!!

Yeah, if you don't care about your spindle or wheel bearings ... that spindle isn't sealed. No boot guards = water and dirt in your spindle and bearings.

J. J.

I was just talking to a buddy of mine about this.. how hard would it be to seal the axle shaft up against water and mud? An open knuckle Rockwell with massive U-Joints or some special order Longfield Birfs would be :smokin:

It's been a whil since I had my rocks apart but I believe it would require custom-made stub shafts as there is no sealing surface on the stub shaft. I believe Ouverson has already started to tackle this problem. I don't know when he'll have something market-ready though.

J. J.

You could drill and tap the spindle and have a threaded grease jig that allows you to force grease into the spindle bushing and push out dirt/water from the wheel bearings without removing the first tire. This is what I did and I have greasable u-joints. I have boots but I don't need them.

Pictures please!