you never see anyone do it. Usually you see people dump the drum brakes, and get an inset rim like a hummer rim to narrow it up. But that still leaves you awfully w i d e. Am I missing something, or is there a reason nobody narrows them? I'd like to see a rockwell setup that's about 80" wide outside of tire to outside of tire. Can it be done? <IMG SRC="smilies/ghost.gif" border="0">

83 that it come awm <IMG SRC="smilies/bounce.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/bounce2.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/usa.gif" border="0">

According to this thread:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=10&t=012821

(the post by elf), with the the hubs flipped they are 67" wide. With 4" backspacing on a 15 x 10 (the max it says is permitted), that puts the center of your tires 69" apart. With a 15" wide tire, that puts you around 84" total width, which is still narrower than my D60. Not quite 80", but close. I wonder if you could use more backspacing with a 16.5 rim? Or am I missing something? My 60/14 bolt setup is sure starting to feel inadequate lately with all this talk of portals and top loaders. <IMG SRC="smilies/blush2.gif" border="0">

Pete

Dont know about the rockwells, but I am sure it can be done. I cant remember what the axle was thats under Quagmire, that big red and white Chevy that has been in the 4x4 rags quite a bit a couple of years ago. It was even in the TTC a few years back. Anyway, they showed in the mag how they narrowed a similer axle.

Depdog <IMG SRC="smilies/usa.gif" border="0">

unimog way lighter
and sweeter ground clearance
like the new bronco Eric at Fat City Built

the axle was built By CTM now thats something to talk about!!

My.02 cents

Adam,,,,

Can't GearMan hook you up?

I think that axle in Quagmire was a 5 ton Rockwell center with like Dana 60 outers on it.

Pete

Adam, I am with you. I have been looking into that. So when you gonna call and cruise on over, I ahe some new work donw lately

Dimitri

I am working on a Land Cruiser Right now !


I will give you a call For Some <IMG SRC="smilies/beer.gif" border="0"> and BS!!!!!!


Late

Adam,,,,

ADAM,
ATTA BOY!
Hows that piece comin along?

Don't see any reason it CAN'T be done. Reason you probably haven't seen it yet is that Rockwell's are typically used with VERY large tires. And the extra stability of the width is probably welcomed. And width isn't really a handicap in most situations where a Rockwell would be warranted. ARCA being the new situation where width IS a handicap.


TEX

Boyce Military Equipment (http://boyceequipment.com) has 2.5 ton Rockwells that are narrowed 7". This may be the solution to the width problem.:bounce: :bounce2:

Would it be that hard to just get a rockwell dropout make a mounting plate then weld up a housing, like the Titan? The only problem I could see would be attaching the axle tubes so that they woulden't bend. You could just use 1.5 ton (D70?) flanges and knuckles. I dont have much faberication experiance, how hard would this be?

Originally posted by Adam Ant
unimog way lighter
and sweeter ground clearance
like the new bronco Eric at Fat City Built

the axle was built By CTM now thats something to talk about!!

My.02 cents

Adam,,,,

Yea that axle from what ive seen in pics is just unbelievable!!!! :eek: BAD ASS setup!

it won't get you down to 80", but you take the rockwell housing, cut the long side tube 7", & a short side axleshaft will slide right in.
One of these days I'll have to get pics of my buddies chevy, his is narrowed, then he turned the pinion up too... pretty damn cool. & yes, the truck is huge. He's sitting over 48x25 Firestone terra tires. Scary part is it rides like a damn cadillac & drives straight as an arrow at 65mph.
And yes, he drives it on the street... don'tcha wish you lived in AZ too?

post some pics.....especially undercarriage stuff...lets see the meat of this stuff
Mike

oh, & BTW, to the best of my knowledge, you cannot flip the hubs on the front axle... only the rear... all fronts were the same, the rear is flippable depending on wether it's a single wheel or dually truck. Dammit, I owned a truck with these axles for a while, but I never really paid much attention. it did have the axle narrowed by the "cut 7" method" I described above though.

I still think Mog axles are the way to go, the CTM axles are super trick but they are 7500US or somethin like that.
I sell my Mog axles for 2500per set or 2750 for two fronts, and this includes the pinion conversion. You get all the low gears and selectable lockers with it. They weigh in at 480lbs for a front axle and 440lbs for a rear axle because there is almost no cast. I finished my disc brake conversion and it will run approx. 5500US for a pair of axles with four wheel discs, they will fit a 16" rim. These discs stop incredible, 14" rotors and 4 piston racing calipers will kick ass over any 1 ton brake setup around, no problem stopping 44's.
They have a few drawbacks like the length of pinion and only 3.5" of offset on the diffs. These problems can be taken care of though, especially if you are building a rig around them. Plus 6.25" more clearence then Dana 60's!!!

Here are few stats for those of you that don't already know the stats on them.

69" from wms to wms
Selectable locker
3.545 to 1 ring and pinion ratio
2.13 to 1 portal gear reduction
7.56 to 1 final gear ratio
Axle shaft necks down to 35mm 1.377" at smallest point Steering CV joint. Each of the two joints compares to a 1480 series u joint
Permanent front axle load (Maximum) 2,500 kg (5511pounds)
Approximately 5" of drop from Portal unit
pinion offset 3.5" to driver side
18.5" from axle centerline to end of pinion
6.25" more clearence than a standard Dana 60

Rear:

69" from wms to wms
Selectable locker
3.545 to 1 ring and pinion ratio
2.13 to 1 portal gear reduction
7.56 to 1 final gear ratio
Axle shaft necks down to 35mm 1.377" at smallest point
Steering CV joint that compares to a 1480 series u joint
Permanent rear axle load (Maximum) 2,500 kg (5511pounds)
Approximately 5" of drop from Portal unit
pinion offset 3.5" to passenger side
18.5" from axle centerline to end of pinion
6.25" more clearence than a standard Dana 60

Originally posted by taradon
I still think Mog axles are the way to go, the CTM axles are super trick but they are 7500US or somethin like that.
I sell my Mog axles for 2500per set or 2750 for two fronts, and this includes the pinion conversion. You get all the low gears and selectable lockers with it. They weigh in at 480lbs for a front axle and 440lbs for a rear axle because there is almost no cast. I finished my disc brake conversion and it will run approx. 5500US for a pair of axles with four wheel discs, they will fit a 16" rim. These discs stop incredible, 14" rotors and 4 piston racing calipers will kick ass over any 1 ton brake setup around, no problem stopping 44's.

I think Mog axles are sweet! I have a fwe questions about them and yours. 1)Are the ones your selling from the 404 or the 416? 2) If they are 404 axles what do you think about the idea that the weak spot in 404 axles is the portal gear housing. The design allows deflection between the drive gear and wheel gear. The deflection allows binding, that with a good enough shock load will blow the portal housing apart. When this happens the wheel, brake, and parts of the housing go seperate ways with the vehicle. 3) Isnt there a option for gears that are higher than 7.56:1? I want to run 38's and think that is too low to drive on the highway, esp/ with a RJ 350 pushing it.

Originally posted by Daniel
Yes they can be flipped around I have 4 perfect examples and you can look at this one http://www.usa6x6.com/Conversions/theshop.shtml


Trying to remember, but don't see how that could be done. Can you only do it with the original brakes removed? or can you flip them & keep the drums?

I sell the 404 axles. I have a set of 416 axles with drums for sale right now for 3300US though.
Anyway yes I do think that the portal gear drive is the weakest part of the axle, but it does take a lot to brake one. In the spring my 85 Chev with a stock 454, 404 mog axles and 49's will be done. I will tell everyone exactly how well they will hold together. Yes I do think I might brake them here and there, but you would brake anything with that much if you try hard enough.
I am mainly running the monster meats to showcase the groud clearence (should be about 2 feet) and see how much abuse they will take.
Don

As for gears 7.56 is all you can get for the 404's but you can get in the low 6's with the 416 axles. I have seen a guy build a 203/205 doubler with the 203 backwards and that way he has a 2to1 overdrive and 2to1 underdrive.
Don

Originally posted by taradon
As for gears 7.56 is all you can get for the 404's but you can get in the low 6's with the 416 axles. I have seen a guy build a 203/205 doubler with the 203 backwards and that way he has a 2to1 overdrive and 2to1 underdrive.
Don

I like that idea but that is a hell of a lot of extra stuff to break for +5" of pinion clearance. I think I'll stick with some shaved 60's and put my tire on stuff insted of driving over it. Sombody should try putting porthole hubs on a rockwell :D That thing would truely be a beast.

~Ed

We're getting off the Rockwell thing a bit but since we're talking Mogs I have some input.
Tim at Bronco Alley and I came up with the idea of mating mog outers with 9 inch centers (not the first).
Mogs give 4-5/8 inches more clearance.
They use C.V. joints - half the angle of misalignment.
The C.V. joints are on the short end of the multiplication.

9 inch housings are lighter than mog housings, the pinion can be placed where you want it and dosen't stick out so far.
9 inch gears are available from 2.50:1 on up, I use 2.50s.
My axles weigh 425 w/o rams. 18 inches, diff. to trail with 42s.
I figured how to oil my now upside-down pinion bearings internally.

At the Warn comp I flogged it hard (450 h.p.) a few times and nothing broke. Yes I've heard of breakage so I added a 1 inch strap welded around the mog gear case.

I use Hummer rims (16.5s with 7 inches of back spacing) with custom centers to fit the mog hubs.This allows the reduction box to be placed inside the rim. More importantly, the scrub radius is kept to a minimum because of the smaller wheel arc thus making it easier to steer on the rocks (a thing most folks forget).

Now back to the Rockwells. The beauty is that they are cheap and real strong, however they are heavy (800 lbs.?) I'm not convinced that they're worth the $ it would take to narrow them.

Here's my proposition. Put the $ in custom rims with more back spacing (5-7 inches). The end result will be a narrower track and a better srub radious.

Originally posted by JR
We're getting off the Rockwell thing a bit but since we're talking Mogs I have some input.
Tim at Bronco Alley and I came up with the idea of mating mog outers with 9 inch centers (not the first).
Mogs give 4-5/8 inches more clearance.
...blah blah blah.....

So what did your overall width end up being outside of tire to outside of tire? :smokin:

80

Originally posted by taradon

I have seen a guy build a 203/205 doubler with the 203 backwards and that way he has a 2to1 overdrive and 2to1 underdrive.
Don [/B]

Hmm... sounds familiar.......:D

I think I might have seen this before ...............oh yeah we ( OTT Industries ) made it :D

Does anybody know what it would cost to ship a pair of rockwells from Boyce Equipment to So. Cal?

Sometimes after I post, I feel that I have stepped on some toes. Me be more careful:emb3:

Well, Don,

You didn't have the correct R&P or hub ratios. So I gave you the correct spec's.
You didn't have the correct axle shaft diameter ratios even after saying that you had personally measured them yourself. So I gave you the correct spec's.
You didn't have the axle weights. So I gave you those.
You didn't know how to convert the pinion to a flange yoke. So I gave you that design.
Shall I continue?
Nah. Sorry, no more free-bee's for you.

And you still haven't got all of your spec's right. Trust me, I know. I should. And you know why.

Anyway, if you couldn't get those right, how could you hope to get an untested brake system right? And considering you were "stretching the truth" about personally measuring the axle shafts and such, then what are we to believe about the rest? It may be possible that someone actually didthat brake conversion for you, but given those spec's, I do find it hard to believe. Hm, yeah, I'll believe it when I see it. So, the inevitable question: any pics yet?

You said I could follow up to your posts, there you go.

For someone interested in Mog axles and goodies to go with them, you may want to hold off on purchasing anything for now. Like, about a month or so.

--Rob

Originally posted by taradon
[...]I sell my Mog axles for 2500per set or 2750 for two fronts, and this includes the pinion conversion. You get all the low gears and selectable lockers with it. They weigh in at 480lbs for a front axle and 440lbs for a rear axle because there is almost no cast. I finished my disc brake conversion and it will run approx. 5500US for a pair of axles with four wheel discs, they will fit a 16" rim. These discs stop incredible, 14" rotors and 4 piston racing calipers will kick ass over any 1 ton brake setup around, no problem stopping 44's.
They have a few drawbacks like the length of pinion and only 3.5" of offset on the diffs. These problems can be taken care of though, especially if you are building a rig around them. Plus 6.25" more clearence then Dana 60's!!!

Here are few stats for those of you that don't already know the stats on them.

69" from wms to wms; Selectable locker; 3.545 to 1 ring and pinion ratio; 2.13 to 1 portal gear reduction; 7.56 to 1 final gear ratio; Axle shaft necks down to 35mm 1.377" at smallest point Steering CV joint. Each of the two joints compares to a 1480 series u joint; Permanent front axle load (Maximum) 2,500 kg (5511pounds); Approximately 5" of drop from Portal unit
pinion offset 3.5" to driver side; 18.5" from axle centerline to end of pinion; 6.25" more clearence than a standard Dana 60

Rear: 69" from wms to wms; Selectable locker; 3.545 to 1 ring and pinion ratio; 2.13 to 1 portal gear reduction; 7.56 to 1 final gear ratio; Axle shaft necks down to 35mm 1.377" at smallest point; Steering CV joint that compares to a 1480 series u joint
Permanent rear axle load (Maximum) 2,500 kg (5511pounds); Approximately 5" of drop from Portal unit; pinion offset 3.5" to passenger side; 18.5" from axle centerline to end of pinion
6.25" more clearence than a standard Dana 60

Can you say SMACK DOWN!!!!!!!!!!!! Dayum! Looks like someone taking credit for someone elses work.






Originally posted by ryeguy
Well, Don,

You didn't have the correct R&P or hub ratios. So I gave you the correct spec's.
You didn't have the correct axle shaft diameter ratios even after saying that you had personally measured them yourself. So I gave you the correct spec's.
You didn't have the axle weights. So I gave you those.
You didn't know how to convert the pinion to a flange yoke. So I gave you that design.
Shall I continue?
Nah. Sorry, no more free-bee's for you.

And you still haven't got all of your spec's right. Trust me, I know. I should. And you know why.

Anyway, if you couldn't get those right, how could you hope to get an untested brake system right? And considering you were "stretching the truth" about personally measuring the axle shafts and such, then what are we to believe about the rest? It may be possible that someone actually didthat brake conversion for you, but given those spec's, I do find it hard to believe. Hm, yeah, I'll believe it when I see it. So, the inevitable question: any pics yet?

You said I could follow up to your posts, there you go.

For someone interested in Mog axles and goodies to go with them, you may want to hold off on purchasing anything for now. Like, about a month or so.

--Rob