I'm planning on doing a front Waggy 44 in my XJ. So it's not going to be the strongest do to the LP but I plan on doing a 3-link RK LA in the front and with a high pinion I run the chance of binding the drive shaft. My question is with 30 spline cromo shafts, ARB locker, and 4.88 gears can I run 37's and not be worried about giving the thing some extra skinny peddle and breaking something? The obvious choice is build a 60 front but I don't want to be running that heavy of an axle. What all needs to be done to ensure no problems out of the D44?

A D44 is marginal on 37's. Chromo shafts help, but you'll still have had problems with ball joints and housings. Save your pennies and go with a 60, weight is not that big of an issue.

And BTW, search, this has been covered millions of times. . . . . .

I ran into serious problems on a HP44 with 38x12.50 SX's. I would say your marginal and that being with the works. Cromos all around and serious joints. Youll likely be ok in most stuff but with a little wheel spin and sudden bite on a rock you could find yourself in a bad situation. Id say a good driver with a sensative foot could make it work for a while. Any serious throttle your prolly in trouble.

what motor?

i assume you have a 4.0 - anything bigger than that and i wouldnt run it. i have a pretty light foot when it comes to wheeling. so i would go with 37's. actually i would like to upgrade from 35's on a d44/9" and run 37's - i just need to do some more body work.

I ran A locked d44 with 37" Iroks on H1 wheels for a couple years. Only issue I had where the stock spicer stub shafts. Never broke a single u-joint or inner shaft, but kept twisting stubs off right in the middle.

It's going to depend mostly on how you drive.

i think the main issue here, as its been debated 2 billion times,is by the time you spend all the money to upgrade the shafts and ujoints and etc you could have built a dana 60 and have the versatility and strength of a much better axle,just my .02:grinpimp:

I have this same set-up that you are talking about running. Mine has chromo shafts, upgraded u-joints and a detriot. The axle has performed great and I like the ground clearance that it gives me over a 60. With all that said with the right driver it will be fine but if I had it to do all over again I would have just built a 60 and been able to romp on it.

I have this same set-up that you are talking about running. Mine has chromo shafts, upgraded u-joints and a detriot. The axle has performed great and I like the ground clearance that it gives me over a 60. With all that said with the right driver it will be fine but if I had it to do all over again I would have just built a 60 and been able to romp on it.

this seems to be the concensus of everyone who has built a 44 instead of going to a 60

Well I plan on running a rear 9" so is a D60/ Ford 9" a good combo? Or should I run 60's front and rear? still running the 37's

Well I plan on running a rear 9" so is a D60/ Ford 9" a good combo? Or should I run 60's front and rear? still running the 37's

i guess ill say it....just run the 60/14 bolt combo and be done with it:beer:

but you could run the 60/9 combo but again the cost of a built 14 is way cheaper than a well built 9
and still stronger,plus you would probably have to narrow the 60 to match the 9.

I don't like 14 bolts

i don't like 14 bolts

ok

I have a friend that runs waggy 44's with 38" boggers on a cj-7 with a v8 and has never had any trouble he was building 60's but decided to sell them because he has wheeled the 44's and has never broken anything.

Oh yeah and the front is locked and the rear has a spool and the shafts are stock.

I don't like 14 bolts

The shave it and make a 13BFF:flipoff2:
Seriously what are your qualms with it? The weight? Diff size?
I cant think of anything that would steer someone away from a 14. Yes its heavy, and yeah the diff is enourmous, but a little disc brake diet can lightnen it up and shaving the bottom lip for clearance is common. Plus there dirt as cheap to get and build....In my case all I got is gears, (mine came stock with a detroit) and disc brake conversion. The hole thing built cost me less than 700. Double that with a 9" or a 60 rear if you wanna make em worth somethin.

It's actually for the simple reason of not liking GM. Bash that all you want but I don't like running GM parts. I'm not trying to say that a 14 bolt isn't a tough axle, I just find it insulting to the Jeep. :laughing:

But that's not the point, the point is I have a rear 9" and will that work well with a D60 front?

But that's not the point, the point is I have a rear 9" and will that work well with a D60 front?

Intresting thought that a 14 is insulting in a Jeep....espcially since I can name at least 20 guys I know personally and the HUNDREDS of Jeepers on pirate with 14's. Not to mention 350's and GM tranny's. Ford is far more insulting but ok whatever moving on.

As for the 9 of course it will work, but what you need to consider is width, bolt pattern, and strength.
Do you want matching width axles?....if so your gonna have to shorten the 60. Bolt paterns will be diffrent so have you considered your options there? And then building and strengthening the 9. Gears, locker, axle shafts, brakes, maybe a truss. See where building a 9 to match a 60 gets pricey?

Which leads me back to the 14... sorry but its praised for a reason. They commomly came with 4.56 and detroit lockers and youll never ever break a shaft with 37 inch tire or a 42 for that matter. Disc brake swaps are cheap and theres no bolt pattern to reconfigure.

I think by the time you set up the 9 to what you want and need you could be in the upwards of 2 grand. The 14 on the other hand would be MAX a grand.

Intresting thought that a 14 is insulting in a Jeep....espcially since I can name at least 20 guys I know personally and the HUNDREDS of Jeepers on pirate with 14's. Not to mention 350's and GM tranny's. Ford is far more insulting but ok whatever moving on.

As for the 9 of course it will work, but what you need to consider is width, bolt pattern, and strength.
Do you want matching width axles?....if so your gonna have to shorten the 60. Bolt paterns will be diffrent so have you considered your options there? And then building and strengthening the 9. Gears, locker, axle shafts, brakes, maybe a truss. See where building a 9 to match a 60 gets pricey?

Which leads me back to the 14... sorry but its praised for a reason. They commomly came with 4.56 and detroit lockers and youll never ever break a shaft with 37 inch tire or a 42 for that matter. Disc brake swaps are cheap and theres no bolt pattern to reconfigure.

I think by the time you set up the 9 to what you want and need you could be in the upwards of 2 grand. The 14 on the other hand would be MAX a grand.

hey...hey.....he said he didnt like them......:laughing:

you had to ask didnt ya......

i could have told you everyone on here would say 60/14bolt .....:flipoff2:

I didn't say insulting to your jeep I said to mine. I'd run a 302 before any damn 350. I'm a die hard ford guy. I know a lot of guys run 14 bolts, I'm not illiterate on the 14 bolt axle and its capabilities. It's simply the fact that's not what I want to run. I can go pull one out the junk yard right now cause I know there's at least 2 sitting there. You could bash all day long about how its the best axle there is. The point in question is not the validity of the strength of a 14 bolt axle for cheap money. Hell I might as well run rockwells or unimog's if you just want to talk about going all out. So I guess none of ya'll understand a simple question of is a D60/9 combo good for running 37's considering ground clearance which is one reason I'm trying to run the smaller axles. Or should I run D60 front and rear?

Also, yes I've considered things like axle width and bolt patterns. This isn't a project I plan on starting tomorrow. I'm just trying to gather some info for the future. Obviously my idea of getting a 44 for the front wouldn't have worked so I'm scratching that. I've already got a 9" with disc brakes and don't feel like getting rid of it unless I have too. That's why I'm trying to see if it's worth keeping if I'm going to have to run a 60 front. If not I'll just go pull some full-size ford D60 axles. Same bolt pattern, width...

With the hole Ford vs Chevy thing. A Trans Am with an LS1 will blow most Mustangs out the water. I'd still prefer a mustang. Just like Obama beat Mc Cain in the election. I'd still rather have Mc Cain.

By the sounds of it our opinions are not going to persuade you into building a60/14b combo. If you have a 9" then run it but when you start breaking shafts please come back and tell us you are upgrading to a 14b or d60.

I thought I was only going to run 38s but still built 60s so I wouldnt have to worry about ever breaking an axle. Then a month after i started driving around on 38s I came across a set of 42s for too good of a price. So i mounted them up and cut som fender. Just because thats all you THINK you want to run NOW anything.

I run the HP44 out of a 78 f250 (i got it for next to nothing and had a detroit already), its cool for what it is but even with the 4.0 everytime I turn to grab some side bite on my tires I await the explosion. Part of the reason I setup my suspension as I did was b/c I knew one day id be bolting in a d60.. so in short no dont run the 44.

I didn't say insulting to your jeep I said to mine. I'd run a 302 before any damn 350. I'm a die hard ford guy. I know a lot of guys run 14 bolts, I'm not illiterate on the 14 bolt axle and its capabilities. It's simply the fact that's not what I want to run. I can go pull one out the junk yard right now cause I know there's at least 2 sitting there. You could bash all day long about how its the best axle there is. The point in question is not the validity of the strength of a 14 bolt axle for cheap money. Hell I might as well run rockwells or unimog's if you just want to talk about going all out. So I guess none of ya'll understand a simple question of is a D60/9 combo good for running 37's considering ground clearance which is one reason I'm trying to run the smaller axles. Or should I run D60 front and rear?

Also, yes I've considered things like axle width and bolt patterns. This isn't a project I plan on starting tomorrow. I'm just trying to gather some info for the future. Obviously my idea of getting a 44 for the front wouldn't have worked so I'm scratching that. I've already got a 9" with disc brakes and don't feel like getting rid of it unless I have too. That's why I'm trying to see if it's worth keeping if I'm going to have to run a 60 front. If not I'll just go pull some full-size ford D60 axles. Same bolt pattern, width...

With the hole Ford vs Chevy thing. A Trans Am with an LS1 will blow most Mustangs out the water. I'd still prefer a mustang. Just like Obama beat Mc Cain in the election. I'd still rather have Mc Cain.


well do what you like then,good luck with your build:D

well for what its worth, I'm going to scratch the 9" on the big tires and I'm going to just run 60's front and rear since I can get both out of fords around here so they'll be matching. Better to build it right the first time and not worry about it later. Sorry for being a little stubborn prick on the 14bolt idea. I was just born and raised a Chevy hater :flipoff2: Thanks for the advice :)

60's front and rear, Ford HP in the front and Ford SF in the rear. I have 35 spline alloy shafts in the rear with Ford bearing ends. I'm using Ford Explorer brakes in the back also. I'm way less than a 1000 in the rear.

desertfox your fuckin pussyy:flipoff2::flipoff2:

I run the HP44 out of a 78 f250 (i got it for next to nothing and had a detroit already), its cool for what it is but even with the 4.0 everytime I turn to grab some side bite on my tires I await the explosion. Part of the reason I setup my suspension as I did was b/c I knew one day id be bolting in a d60.. so in short no dont run the 44.

I"m running the same 78 F250 HPD44 with 37's. 4340 shafts, super ujoints, ARB, 5.13. I've been running it just over a year and haven't broken anything, but I don't beat on it hard either. I've run a fair amount of trails including the Rubicon and Fordyce and 2 weeks all over moab and no issues. I'm running MTR's not IROKS or boggers or anything super heavy. It works for me. If I had found a Ford HP D60 locally for a decent price I would have gone that route. But all the ones I saw were around $1000 for just a junkyard rebuildable axle, all of them missing something.
I used the matching D60 rear, bored the spindles and 35 spline alloys, ARB. I'm happy, at least until I break it. Two guys in my club are running 38.5"s swampers on a Ford D44 and the only thing that I've seen happen is one of them spit out 2 ujoint caps. I keep hearing people say you can build a D60 for the same price as a built D44, but when I priced all the parts, nearly every part was significantly more for the D60.

If I had found a Ford HP D60 locally for a decent price I would have gone that route.

Exactly...

That said, the HP44 is ok but in the end the Ujoints and ball joints just worry me...

Also how much do you have in that 44.

i have a 44 in the front and im starting the 9 inch now...and im going to run 37s rockers.....i have know people running 38s on rubicon 44s...yes the lp...so...im good

If your a die-hard Ford guy check out the sterling 10.25.....

If your a die-hard Ford guy check out the sterling 10.25.....

Oh don't think I haven't thought about it. I been thinking about raping our Super Duty of it's 10.25 rear, D60 front axle, and I'd love to find a way to put the v-10 Triton under the hood of an xj :D But my dad would kill me if I did that to his baby for my little XJ. But being that there is no way that motors going to fit under the hood and the fact that a 10.25 has such a huge diff size, same with the 14 bolt, I'd bang it on every rock in site. Can you shave a 10.25 like a 14 bolt cause then I might be looking for one to through in the back of jeep.

well for what its worth, I'm going to scratch the 9" on the big tires and I'm going to just run 60's front and rear since I can get both out of fords around here so they'll be matching. Better to build it right the first time and not worry about it later. Sorry for being a little stubborn prick on the 14bolt idea. I was just born and raised a Chevy hater :flipoff2: Thanks for the advice :)

No biggie on the ford vs.chevy stuff or 14 bolt.... I wasnt trying to stur an argument...just trying to say why the 14 is so popular espicaially on budget. Theres a huge debate in east and west with chevy vs for but thats another time and place. Glad you canned the 9"....not saying at all it's a bad axle but to match a 60 on a price quotea could get outtta control. The 60 rear...well sure...your still dropping money you dont need to but at least your at he same bolt patern and width. Axle shafts and carrier overhaul is cheaper than a 9" but still not as good or strong as a stock 14. But I wont argue that anymore. 60/60 is a great combo if properly built....good luck sir!:smokin:

Edit: The 10.25 is a more than awsome choice espiceially if found with disc brakes!

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x42/BrassMunkey4/HPIM1820.jpg

That happened to my waggy shaft two weekends ago with 37's, 5.13's and an auto. I picked up a dana 60 front one week later.

That being said, I am a huge ford man too. Ultimate plan is ford 609s front and rear, but for now I will be running ford HP 60 and rear 14 bolt. I looked at running a dana 60 rear, shit gets real expensive real quick, beside the disk brake conversion which should be done on both axles, boring the spindles, buying 1.5" shafts, locker and a carrier, you are at least doubling th price of the axle. A CUCV chevy rear axle comes with 4.56 gears and a detroit locker, you should be able to pick one up for $400 or less (less the price of a detroit alone)

So I will be able to set up a 14 bolt for about $700 (actually cheaper cause I am trading fab work for the axle, but thats not part of this convo), while a similar strength dana 60 will be at least $1500... Ford 9" setup in 35 spline is about the same cost, just truss the housing and you will be set.

I've ran the 44's for 3 years with minimal problems, but my wheeling style has changed and I want to be able to romp it and not worry.

Those are stock shafts right?

I have priced a D60 vs D44 and I am one who has said they are the same. Well that is not the case, I was wrong. A stock D60 to a built D44 are about the same cost wise, but the d60 will still cost more. And that's reusing the stock shafts etc.

All that to say I have a HPD44 running 36" TSL's that I beat on pretty good. alloy usa shafts, yukon joints, locked, 5.13's. I have had zero breakage.

If I were starting from scratch again I'd go for the stock D60 then upgrade to alloys once I had the money. But for now I'll "run what I brung."

I have a polished 44 in front of my XJ, Superior shafts, CTMs, spares are Alloy USA with Lonfield joints, ARB, 5.13s, etc. It has been under there for 5 years, I started with 36" TSLs, then moved to 36" Iroks, and know I have 37" red label Krawlers. In the early days I ran Yukon stuff on the short side and twisted a few shafts but i have not broke anything. I have repleaced the ball joints 4 times. It can be done if you wheel like you have a brain, so somehow I have managed but do not know how.

Scott

I could only get a junkyard 60 for what I have into my front 44... :(
that being said I could probably get away with 37's if I had cromos.
I'm having good luck with 35's on stock shafts and good joints

building a 35 spline 9" isn't any more expensive than a 35 spline rear 60 (unless you find one that already has 35 spl shafts: you still have to bore out the spindles, buy shafts and a 35spline locker)

you can buy a 35spl spool that fits in a stock 9" third and 35spl shafts that bolt in.

what is expensive is making a 60 front 5x5.5".... ugh

Hey Desertfox, My GM Duramax with blow the doors of your PSD Any day of the week. Fords are the biggest piles of shit. :flipoff2:





Oh don't think I haven't thought about it. I been thinking about raping our Super Duty of it's 10.25 rear, D60 front axle, and I'd love to find a way to put the v-10 Triton under the hood of an xj :D But my dad would kill me if I did that to his baby for my little XJ. But being that there is no way that motors going to fit under the hood and the fact that a 10.25 has such a huge diff size, same with the 14 bolt, I'd bang it on every rock in site. Can you shave a 10.25 like a 14 bolt cause then I might be looking for one to through in the back of jeep.

Why are we know talking about trucks blowing other trucks doors?:confused:
Oh did you mean off not of? Know I get it.:flipoff2:

Hey Desertfox, My GM Duramax with blow the doors of your PSD Any day of the week. Fords are the biggest piles of shit. :flipoff2:

Hey Desertfox, My GM Duramax with blow the doors of your PSD Any day of the week. Fords are the biggest piles of shit. :flipoff2:

That's funny cause I could swear a PSD is either a Piece of Shit Diesel or a Power Stroke Diesel. Either way a V-10 Triton is a Gas Engine and it will hual ass with a load. We got a 14,000lb 5th wheel camper we haul. Not sure if your familiar with a place called Fancy Gap in Virgina. It's a 7 mile step grade hill climb. Every year us and about 10 other trucks all head up to West Virgina. Are truck hauls the biggest camper and leaves all the power strokes, Duramaxs, and Cummings in our group. They catch back up to us at the gas station on the other side though cause It doesn't get gas millage worth shit :flipoff2:

Sorry about the PSD Part, But I call wayyyyyy bullshit that a v10 gasser can out pull any diesel other than a mid 80's diesel. How much torque are you putting to the ground, I can tell you that you aren't putting down even 1/2 of torque that I am. That's a fact and if you think I'm shittin you. Post a copy of your dyno report and I'll do the same and we'll see who's got more power. Dirtymax always win's and leaves Fords choking on my coal rolling in the air. Oh I forgot 23MPG unladen 17mpg loaded most of the time. :flipoff2:


That's funny cause I could swear a PSD is either a Piece of Shit Diesel or a Power Stroke Diesel. Either way a V-10 Triton is a Gas Engine and it will hual ass with a load. We got a 14,000lb 5th wheel camper we haul. Not sure if your familiar with a place called Fancy Gap in Virgina. It's a 7 mile step grade hill climb. Every year us and about 10 other trucks all head up to West Virgina. Are truck hauls the biggest camper and leaves all the power strokes, Duramaxs, and Cummings in our group. They catch back up to us at the gas station on the other side though cause It doesn't get gas millage worth shit :flipoff2:

Anyways just messin around, I'd say build it right and tough the 1st time so you can spend more time having funn instead of fixing shit all of the time. my .02

Waggy 44 + Arb + 37" Maxxis and stock shafts :D
They hold up pretty good, if you treat them nicely.

Next Wednesday we are heading to Karelia trails in Russia, I have now 37" Boggers under my MJ, maybe i need to pack few spare shafts and balljoints........

Anyways just messin around, I'd say build it right and tough the 1st time so you can spend more time having funn instead of fixing shit all of the time. my .02

Ya I saw your sig sounds like you got that truck setup right. A diesel can hual a lot more weight but a V-10 can pull it faster. It's got a least 450HP. I don't remember what the torque is. Would rather have a diesel pulling that camper but it'll beat a STOCK diesel off the line, which is why is pulls past them on the hill climb revved up to about 4500 rpm :D

Waggy 44 + Arb + 37" Maxxis and stock shafts :D
They hold up pretty good, if you treat them nicely.


Who wants to treat anything nicely?

Matt (hadfield) those are stock shafts and i'm sure I would have been fine in that situation with good alloy shafts. Good alloy shafts cost $700, which I would rather spend on dana 60 parts.

Build what you can afford, then wheel it to its max. Once you've found that, decide whether you can now afford/want to build something better. I am not a bling wheeler, but I try to do things right when I do them. I know a dana 60 will last me a long time, since I dont ever really plan on running anything bigger than 40's.

i got my HP 44 and after two runs too the hammers + a three hr 5+ run I blew a front stub (stock) then a stock u joint on alloys.. and a ball joint..so i gave you the weaknesses..if ya can get the ball joints to hold up you are fine, if not
http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/636078/fullsize/picture-001.jpg

ya need kingpins:smokin:

Who wants to treat anything nicely?

Matt (hadfield) those are stock shafts and i'm sure I would have been fine in that situation with good alloy shafts. Good alloy shafts cost $700, which I would rather spend on dana 60 parts.

Build what you can afford, then wheel it to its max. Once you've found that, decide whether you can now afford/want to build something better. I am not a bling wheeler, but I try to do things right when I do them. I know a dana 60 will last me a long time, since I dont ever really plan on running anything bigger than 40's.

Dana 60:s are quite rare and expensive in Finland, You can buy pair of ex Nato D60/14b axles for 1900$ from Germany......
so i keep treating my 44s nicely :D

This makes me laugh, you are going to spend more money building a rear 60 or 10.25 which will still be an inferioir axle to a 14 bolt just because it is a GM product?

I have a GM 203 and Ford 205 in my junk. And I have a ford 60 and a GM 14 bolt. I wouldnt drive a Ford if you gave it to me, and wouldnt get into a GM unless it was built before 1994.

When I built my rig I had to decide on axles. I wanted to have zero worries about breaking the front axle. Sure the D44 is lighter and has a more ground clearance. After pricing out a built D44 I could build a front GM 60 with stock shafts.

I have all Spicer shafts (35 spline) and have no concern about hurting that axle at all. I dont go wheelin to go wrenchin.

My 44 didn´t hold up 37" Boggers in Russian "trails", passenger side shaft and hublock blew up.

http://forums.offipalsta.com/picture.php?albumid=903&pictureid=12073

and more pics of that trip, if you are interested:
http://forums.offipalsta.com/album.php?albumid=906&page=2

My 44 didn´t hold up 37" Boggers in Russian "trails", passenger side shaft and hublock blew up.

http://forums.offipalsta.com/picture.php?albumid=903&pictureid=12073

and more pics of that trip, if you are interested:
http://forums.offipalsta.com/album.php?albumid=906&page=2

You should carry a small tarp with you. lay it down and work off of it. That way you can keep better track of your parts.

dont like GM parts in your XJ???

better get to swapping out the steering column.... that's all GM right there.:shaking::shaking::shaking:

I have pretty much the exact setup you're asking about in my TJ...Ford HP 44up front with Warn chromo, a Detroit, and CTMs. I think the weak points in this setup are the hubs and the gears. I already blew one hub, and so I decided to go with flanges. It's not like this is a street rig or anything. In the rear I'm running a Ford 9" out of a '80 f-150 with a full spool and Alloy USA shafts. I'm running 38.5x14.50x20 ProComp xTreme AT's (I know....but they were dirt cheap....I had to do what I could with what I had). I already blew up a set of gears in the rear, but that was a freak incident...the bearing cap broke in half and spit out the carrier bearing race. THAT was ugly....

This is the first season for me on this setup with the 38's. I'll be putting my 4:1 t-case in next week, so that will help me in the light throttle dept., but I'm also curious as to how this will hold up. On the other hand, I already had the front axle in the rig running 35's, and in the rear, well, we'll just have to see. But I think it should hold up ok. If not, I'm only out about $300, total. If the front blows up...well, it'll be more expensive....

I'll be running 37"s on my 8 Lug D44 with some lunchbox locker... I ran a d30 bone stock with 35"s pretty hard so I figure I'll be running quality joints and shafts and I am not worried about breaking anything.

dont like GM parts in your XJ???

better get to swapping out the steering column.... that's all GM right there.:shaking::shaking::shaking:

There are probably 2 dozen GM parts stock on the XJ.

I already blew up a set of gears in the rear, but that was a freak incident...the bearing cap broke in half and spit out the carrier bearing race. THAT was ugly....

That's not exactly a 'freak incident'...it's more of a 'common point of failure'. :D Probably broke right at the retainer bolt in the middle, right?

I chucked two 9" gearsets that way in a Bronco with stock 3.50 gears, 35's, and a weak 302. Also blew the back off an LSD carrier.

I have pretty much the exact setup you're asking about in my TJ...Ford HP 44up front with Warn chromo, a Detroit, and CTMs. I think the weak points in this setup are the hubs and the gears. I already blew one hub, and so I decided to go with flanges. It's not like this is a street rig or anything. In the rear I'm running a Ford 9" out of a '80 f-150 with a full spool and Alloy USA shafts. I'm running 38.5x14.50x20 ProComp xTreme AT's (I know....but they were dirt cheap....I had to do what I could with what I had). I already blew up a set of gears in the rear, but that was a freak incident...the bearing cap broke in half and spit out the carrier bearing race. THAT was ugly....

This is the first season for me on this setup with the 38's. I'll be putting my 4:1 t-case in next week, so that will help me in the light throttle dept., but I'm also curious as to how this will hold up. On the other hand, I already had the front axle in the rig running 35's, and in the rear, well, we'll just have to see. But I think it should hold up ok. If not, I'm only out about $300, total. If the front blows up...well, it'll be more expensive....



With that 4-1 it will be easyer on the gears as there is less throttle involved.
:) Lockright kit:question:

Just get 60s man, then you'll be done.
You'll want 60s in 2 years anyway. Just do it right the first time.
Don't polish 44s, just run stock 60s. With 37s, you'll be fine.
I ran 37s on a Dana 30 dude for 2 summers.

ive been running 37" mtrs on my waggy 44s and 5.13 gears...only thing I have done to them is twist the rear shafts a little..the front is fine.

Do the D60 , forget the 44.......



Joe

running 37s on a dana 30 isn't wheeling. unless you were replacing shafts, hubs, or ball joints after every trip. theres no way you were doing much with 37s on a dana 30. i see no problem at all in running those tires on a dana 44. what are you into doing. lots of rocks, and you might run into problems. where i wheel, and what we do dana 44s are considered plenty of axle to run 37-38s. we do trails, hill climbs, washouts etc...usually theyre muddy. im running 38s on my dana 44, and although i haven't gotten to wheel it yet, im not too worried about it. if i start breaking shafts on a regular basis, or gears, then ill think about building a 60.

i have a 97 xj on 37 in iroks with a hp 250 44 that has yukon axles and alloy jointi was at golden mtn and i broke my long inner axle right brfore the ujoint yoke didnt even hurt thre joint, selling my doing shaved 14 bolt with 60 outers! now

chopperfish, your building trucks and still can't speak English?:shaking:

For the rest of you guys who have upgraded from 44's, 9's etc to 60s and 14's on the SAME vehicle, did you notice a significant power loss due to the heavier axles and parasitic loss due to the bigger gears etc?

I'm running 38" TSL's (with the extra weight of beadlocks) on a 44 with yukon 4340's and drive flanges. So far, so good. Granted we don't run much rock on the east coast, and I don't run my junk into stuff it's going to bind up in. With smart wheeling it can last. It can be and is done, but 60's are better insurance (they also cost more...bottom-line).

I'm running 38" TSL's on a HP44/ lockright with Alloy USA's and spicer joints.

No failures YET, but I'm not beating the snot out either.

Oh wait...... one failure...... keep grease on the bearings..:homer:



http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/BerzerCo/1210647862.jpg

I'm running 38" TSL's (with the extra weight of beadlocks) on a 44 with yukon 4340's and drive flanges. So far, so good. Granted we don't run much rock on the east coast, and I don't run my junk into stuff it's going to bind up in. With smart wheeling it can last. It can be and is done, but 60's are better insurance (they also cost more...bottom-line).

theres no upgrade for the balljoints, thats were you will see your first failure. all that extra weight and added leverage from 38's and the bead locks will wreak havic on your ball joints.

when they break no chrome shafts or CTM will live.
to the OP dont be a moron about runing a 14 bolt. you will learn once you get your 60 rear that the stock axles will not be up to task and you need to upgrade to 1.5'' shafts.
now your looking at boaring the axles out and buying shafts, oh and guess what else you need to upgrade that 30 spline locker to a 35 spline. so where are you saving money????

listen you could be raised a ford man, will you not sleep at night knowing you have a GM axle under your rig. buy the way ford didn't invent dana eather, so when you upgrade the front to a 60 guess what its not a ford axle its a DANA, just like the old 6.9 ford desal engine made buy IH:shaking:. some morons never learn...........

jason.

I get tons of shit for it, but I've run 36's & 37's (Iroks & TSLs) on HP44s in '70s F150s & my '79 Bronco for years. I'm pretty easy on the throttle on rocks, but definitely wring it out in mud, dirt, sand, and snow. Detroits in the rears & OX & ARB in the fronts. I carry spare axles, joints, & hubs. Knock on wood, I've never used 'em for my own rig.:mr-t:

chopperfish, your building trucks and still can't speak English?:shaking:

For the rest of you guys who have upgraded from 44's, 9's etc to 60s and 14's on the SAME vehicle, did you notice a significant power loss due to the heavier axles and parasitic loss due to the bigger gears etc?


http://www.solofabworks.com/images2/rigs3/IMG_0290.JPG

had to.. :)

I wouldnt trust 37s on a Dana 44. My motor and 35s kinda make me a little nervous since I just found a spun carrier bearing when I tore it down for a gear install. Then again its held up with no issues for 3 years with lots of wheeling and daily driving.

Instead of the 60 up front, build a 9" front with 60 outers. Theres lots of threads on here on how its done, and if you can build a 44 to fit under your rig you can build a 9 front. You get 60 strength with the weight of the 9. I currently have a HP Dana 44 and am saving money now to build a better front axle.

As for the rear, upgrade the case to a Strange or aftermarket case, 35 spline carrier and shafts and you will be set. I just got done doing a Strage case, 35 spline spool and shafts and it cost me right around $1100. I have no fear of the rear ever coming apart :grinpimp:

AARON

I wouldnt trust 37s on a Dana 44. My motor and 35s kinda make me a little nervous since I just found a spun carrier bearing when I tore it down for a gear install. Then again its held up with no issues for 3 years with lots of wheeling and daily driving.

Instead of the 60 up front, build a 9" front with 60 outers. Theres lots of threads on here on how its done, and if you can build a 44 to fit under your rig you can build a 9 front. You get 60 strength with the weight of the 9. I currently have a HP Dana 44 and am saving money now to build a better front axle.

As for the rear, upgrade the case to a Strange or aftermarket case, 35 spline carrier and shafts and you will be set. I just got done doing a Strage case, 35 spline spool and shafts and it cost me right around $1100. I have no fear of the rear ever coming apart :grinpimp:

AARON

pound for pound, 60/14 bolt or 60/60 but to drive it every day, a 609 would be nice but a HP d44 with molly shafts and wheeling it like it had a d44 and not a 60 is a difference.
It comes down to the cost of building the rig to wheel it only and trailer it or drive it and wheel it.. Have to give and take on the role of the rig.. I want to trash and thrash and just romp around.. I dont want to worry about it getting me home..

chopperfish, your building trucks and still can't speak English?:shaking:



his building trucks?

i ran 37's (and 36's) on a pair of dana44's for about a year without issue
then one day the ring gear in the rear axle stripped
replaced with a dana60 (which cost me just as much to build as a 33 spline dana44)

my front 44 is still kickin though, i had no issues for nearly 2 years, then busted 2 alloy stub shafts in 2 consecutive weekends (different sides) and one took the warn hub with it.

KTM- thanks that was truly informative, sounds like your front 44 is "kickin" just like mine after this weekend. Smart move running a 44 rear with 37's, what engine did you have in that rig.:flipoff2:
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff236/BlackSkies7/PC230118.jpg

As I said before, a 44 can live, possibly, but if your starting from scratch, go 60. If you wanna spit back something about me running the 44, I got the housing for free and basically built it for free so I'm dealing with it.

As I said before, a 44 can live, possibly, but if your starting from scratch, go 60. If you wanna spit back something about me running the 44, I got the housing for free and basically built it for free so I'm dealing with it.

Well you said yourself you could swap in a 60 with just a few tools..
But than you also have to get another set of rims. Or do the swap from 8lug to 5 lug. And than build up another set of axles. You said you can get a 14bolt, just a front 60, driver side drop, and your set.

KTM- thanks that was truly informative, sounds like your front 44 is "kickin" just like mine after this weekend. Smart move running a 44 rear with 37's, what engine did you have in that rig.:flipoff2:


you're learning i see:flipoff2:

I was a noob at the time of that swap, I originally wanted to only run 35's but got a smokin deal on some 37's, so like most anyone on a budget with a pair for half built axles, i wasn't going to sell everything off for a loss only to start over again on a new axle.

FWIW:
The one time I went to the Rubicon was with a bunch of Suzuki guys. There were about 20 rigs, and the only guys that broke axles were the D44 guys. One broke both axles, and one guy just the one: 2 of the 'u-joint' things, and 1 was the gizzy that held the U-joint & it was some kind of 'upgraded' axle (chromoly?), sorry for not knowing terminology. If a light weight Suzuki with a 1.3L or 1.6L engine can bust a D44...

*edit
This was a week or two before Jeeper's Jamboree, and I'm told this is when the trail is the hardest to get through.

The very first run I took on my 44 (stock shafts) I sheared the short side at the splines AND ripped off the ears (WTF right?). Got alloys and superjoints and have been fine for a year running harlan, big dogs, rausch creek etc. But I have already had to replace the ball joints, they were brand new moogs and I'm only running 35s sometimes 36s.

If you need to make a dana 44 last with big tires do what i did... install a front limited slip not a full locker. I got a limited slip tore it down and made it "tighter" by adding some shims behind the springs and it works great. Are there places that i wish i had a full locker up front... well duh. But when you have a 44 and you dont want it exploding all the time then a limited slip is the way to go. The price difference between a locker and a limited slip is pretty big, about $200, the savings can be set aside to start saving for a front dana 60.

it is true that you will need to replace ball joints. I replaced them last year and its about time for another set. Been doing some snow runs and the jeep likes to wander, might need to steering joints as well.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/mrmontez2000/Forum%20Uploads/IMG_0875.jpg

did that in a parking lot.:(

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/mrmontez2000/Forum%20Uploads/IMG_0875.jpg

did that in a parking lot.:(

Why'd you have your hubs locked in a parking lot? :laughing:
Billy

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/mrmontez2000/Forum%20Uploads/IMG_0875.jpg

did that in a parking lot.:(

what gears/lockers?

gettin nutty

detroit and 5.38's

starting to feel the "go straight to dana60" mindset

well i only read page 1 and 4, but i must say ball joints are the most common issue. i'm running 37 toyos and ran 39 iroks. now i need to replace both ball joint sides for the second time. so it's about once a year i need to replace them, probably be sooner, but i just don't feel like getting around to it until the sloppiness on the street really bugs me.

well i only read page 1 and 4, but i must say ball joints are the most common issue. i'm running 37 toyos and ran 39 iroks. now i need to replace both ball joint sides for the second time. so it's about once a year i need to replace them, probably be sooner, but i just don't feel like getting around to it until the sloppiness on the street really bugs me.

just wondering what are you running for ball joints? wheel backspacing?

i have seen ball joint failure with shaft failure, but had no idea on what he was running for either.

i wish i remember what joints im running now but they are still tight after a year. i cheaped out before those and ran the stockers which were tight, those wore to dust within the year.

Edit....Two trips later on the yukons, and they're h'd. All I can say is ....I am very, very, dissappointed. Three of the four axles are screwed. One sheared completely off after twisting beyond recognition. The other two sets of splines look like candy canes.

In hindsight, I'd rather have shoveled my money into the abyss of of the south atlantic sea (or have it sucked into a super-massive black hole).

P.S. I was running warn hubs the whole time, and they're ship shape. I think I'm going to give superior and bobby's joints a shot, but i should have probably went 60 (was just out of the price range).
:barf:
(This was running 38's with beadlocks).

i dont know why this thread is so long or why people still debate on strength/weakness of a dana 44. by the time you put chromolly this and super that in a 44 you can buy a 60. i had a 44/9" in my last XJ with chromo shafts i was breaking every weekend (hubs, stubs, u joints, inners, ball joints, broke a welded carrier once) . finally i couldn't afford breaking anymore, shit was adding up. new jeep has a 35 spline 60 front and a 14 bolt rear.:flipoff2:

To me, the reason is pretty simple: while a 60 is obviously better in the long run, very few people can waltz out an buy a 60 right off the bat. I rather be wheeling than waiting a year so I can buy a 60, so the other option is to work at building something with less insurance that you can afford. Sure, after you chromolly a 44, you could have bought a 60, all I'm saying is that most can't do both at the same time. So, they buy the 44, wheel it, then when they can, alloy it.

the way I see it a 44 alloyed out on 37's + is similar to a 30 alloyed out on 35's. let the flaming begin :flipoff2:

What do yall think about a 44/8.8 combo with 36" iroks could that handle abuse?

8.8 is a piece of shit axle

What do yall think about a 44/8.8 combo with 36" iroks could that handle abuse?

If you use an exploder 8.8, your bolt patterns won't match.

If you use an exploder 8.8, your bolt patterns won't match.

Yes they can. Mid 70's dodge fulltime D44's have 4.5 on 5 bolt pattern as does the 8.8.

OlyWa

not sure why youd say the 8.8 is a piece of shit. apart from the c-clips i love mind

and im running a waggy 44/8.8 set up on 38s and like it. took it out last weekend and it did great. no breakage, and i wouldn't say i was easy on it. but then again this is on the east coast without a lot of rocks

ive been going back and forth on my next big spend being on a set of dana 60s or alloy shafts f/r

im leaning towards 60s

Yes they can. Mid 70's dodge fulltime D44's have 4.5 on 5 bolt pattern as does the 8.8.

OlyWa


Isn't that a passender side (lo pinion)diff?


Just go hi pinion 44/9" out of the same truck.

Yes they can. Mid 70's dodge fulltime D44's have 4.5 on 5 bolt pattern as does the 8.8.

OlyWa


5 on 4.5 pattern sucks, if you want to go this route I agree, get a 9" instead.

Well I already have the 8.8 I was just wondering about getting a 44 if I should or what I should go with

aftermarket 5 on 5.5 shafts for the 8.8 with rotors

Well I already have the 8.8 I was just wondering about getting a 44 if I should or what I should go with

if its a explorer 8.8, just put in a waggy 44, swap on a set of chevy flat tops so you can do hi steer and run ford small bearing spindles and hubs so you can run 5 on 5.5 in the front and put adapter/wheel spacers on the 8.8 to make it 5 on 5.5. my roommate has that set up and works great. his has chromos now but he only had one incident with the stock shafts. wouldn't got bigger that 35's though. 36's if you have a light foot. this way you wont have a full width front and a slightly less than stock width rear.

Jus kinda curious for the OP, you say you don't like GM parts on your XJ, why not run a Ford dana 70 rear and a HP60 front? You can keep the blue oval stuff and have a big rear axle...FWIW, after buying a 44 front and rebuilding it, gears, balljoints, etc etc, I really wish I wouldve went with a 60 from the beginning..yeah, the initial cost is high, but the insurance you have with a 60 is worth it IMO.