I made my sliders and bunpers out of 40 , and am now starting my exo and when bending the stuff that I bought yesterday I noticed that it was wanting to kink it. Then I noticed that the pipe was from china, what the heck. Then I noticed that the pipe thatwas left over from befor was from thailand. Is the stuff from china crap and that it why it is wanting to kink or is it my POS H/F pipe bender? Does all the pipe come from over there?

DOM

thats gonna be one heavy ass exo. just get elbows and 45's and thread it together like it was meant to be:D

anyone who tells you not to make the outer portions of an exo or rocksliders out of pipe, either hasnt used it and seen how it is much stronger on a sharp impact, like flopping on a rock, or just plan doesnt wheel aggressively and is just talking out there ass.

dom is soft, it gouges and bends absorbing large impacts, saves lives in high speed multiple roll accidents like nascar or something by deforming. if you havent deformed or gouged DOM you are barely leaning on it or wheeling against a pillow.

pipe is cheaper works excellent in a flop over onto jagged edges encountered in trail situations.

this will probably start a big arguement, my 1.75" 0.120" wall DOM exo lasted 4-5 good flops and a nasty 3/4 roll. it was destroyed one trip to the hammers in areas on the rocksliders and sides of the exo. im talking upper big johnson, not your local OHV park...

again thinker DOM would certainly do the trick, but im poor and if your asking about pipe, your probably economically challenged too??:p

Bogger , I agree with you 100% theses others that think that dom is the only way to go dont know much. If they think that 40 is going to be heavy they have not picked up a stick to thick wall dom ever, that crap is HEAVY. I Just need to know If this stuff from china is the same as any other stuff. Have you ever looked a your PIPE to see where it was made? Befor I noticed that it was made in china I just figured it was from the usa. plum on paul

Originally posted by Booger Weldz
anyone who tells you not to make the outer portions of an exo or rocksliders out of pipe, either hasnt used it and seen how it is much stronger on a sharp impact, like flopping on a rock, or just plan doesnt wheel aggressively and is just talking out there ass.

dom is soft, it gouges and bends absorbing large impacts, saves lives in high speed multiple roll accidents like nascar or something by deforming. if you havent deformed or gouged DOM you are barely leaning on it or wheeling against a pillow.

pipe is cheaper works excellent in a flop over onto jagged edges encountered in trail situations.

this will probably start a big arguement, my 1.75" 0.120" wall DOM exo lasted 4-5 good flops and a nasty 3/4 roll. it was destroyed one trip to the hammers in areas on the rocksliders and sides of the exo. im talking upper big johnson, not your local OHV park...

again thinker DOM would certainly do the trick, but im poor and if your asking about pipe, your probably economically challenged too??:p

Finally someone who has a brain! I have used pipe on two cages now, and have been happy with both. Now, I dont go around rolling every weekend and I dont do rockcrawling competitions, but for My applications pipe is working just fine. The portion of my exo that is complete is all made from 1.5" sch 40 pipe. I dont know where it comes from but it should all be make to the same specs. I have even bent it with the seam to the outside without any problems.

If I was building a cage for a customer or for competition I would recommend DOM first, and use pipe second if they wanted it bad enough. Dont get all worked up with the weight difference between pipe and dom, since the sch 40 is only a few thousandths of an inch thicker, its not going to make that big of a difference in weight.

Yes, ideally I would use DOM. No, its not necessary for most people. and dont give me that Fucking Bullshit about cost vs safety. We all make that compromise everyday by not driving the best safety rated cars and trucks on the market. Not to mention adding huge ass tires and lockers.

Brook

To keep the pipe from kinking, cut a section of tube in half so that you have two C shaped pieces. Place these on the tube where it contacts the rollers. The added thickness prevents a kink and gives you a smooth bend throughout. I did this with my cage and it worked extremely well. Only wastes about 3 inches of tube too :)

wasnt raining on your parade, just didnt have anything real to add so i made a wisecrack, hence the :D .
but wouldnt it be funny to see someone on the trail with an exo fitted together insted of bent.

That would be pretry funny! I bet you could find one on ebay that was like that!:D

Sure laugh about it now, but there is some dumb fawk I see driving around town from time to time with a PVC pipe cage. :eek:

Bastards like that scare the living hell out of me!

Is sch 40 pipe made of a different kind of steel? Or is it just like .120 mild steel only thicker?

Originally posted by JR
Is sch 40 pipe made of a different kind of steel? Or is it just like .120 mild steel only thicker?

tubing, either "DOM" or welded is slightly better steel. The bigest diffrence is that since both the tubings are Drawn Over a Mandrel, they get streched and there for become a hair stronger. Some one the has the physics and metalurgy(sp?) can explain better.

Before 4x4s I was into buggies. This I can tell you. In a light weight vehical, Multi roll, DOM faired no better the weld seam. However water pipe, black pipe, schduel pipe, does split. Did it fail to the point of danger? No. distorts a little more and splits, but only split for a short area where the bends got bent the other way.

If you want to use pipe feel free to do what you want. I use it for bumpers and sliders. For a cage I use tube, the main reason I use tube is that there is no questions, and my dies fit tube.

I was just curious, because the rocker guards that are on my Cherokee are sch 40 pipe. I can't seem to bend them! But the rocker guards on my Bronco, which are integral to the whole frame and are made of .120 mild steel, seem to bend quite easily.

Drawn Over a Mandrel, they get streched and there for become a hair stronger. Some one the has the physics and metalurgy(sp?) can explain better.

The term you guys are looking for is called "work hardening".

I beleive that pipe is good for rock hits because it is less ductile than DOM tubing, making it more resistant to dents, even thought the ultimate tensile strength of pipe is slightly less.

Brook

Originally posted by JR
Is sch 40 pipe made of a different kind of steel? Or is it just like .120 mild steel only thicker?

There are dozens of different specs for pipe and they can be of
all kinds of alloys depending on application. So many people
think that the water pipe you buy at Home Depot is the same as
all pipe everywhere. Couldn't be further from the truth.

Were you two types the same ASTM spec?

Jay

Originally posted by 83rolledtoy
I made my sliders and bunpers out of 40 , and am now starting my exo and when bending the stuff that I bought yesterday I noticed that it was wanting to kink it. Then I noticed that the pipe was from china, what the heck. Then I noticed that the pipe thatwas left over from befor was from thailand. Is the stuff from china crap and that it why it is wanting to kink or is it my POS H/F pipe bender? Does all the pipe come from over there?


I move the rollers out as the pipe dia. gets larger. 6 dies, 6 holes for the rollers.

fill with sand for a good bend with the hf bender. if it is a long run just tie a rag to a wire and push it in just past the bend area so you don't have to use so much sand and duck tape the end

Originally posted by bgreen


The term you guys are looking for is called "work hardening".

I beleive that pipe is good for rock hits because it is less ductile than DOM tubing, making it more resistant to dents, even thought the ultimate tensile strength of pipe is slightly less.

Brook

Here's a question I've had for a while. What happens to the "work hardening" once the tube is welded? If I remeber correctly, annealling metal will remove most if not all the properties of hard/cold working, and welding anything unless done very carefully will almost always cause some sort of localized annealling. Are you guys with DOM seeing failures close to welds, or does the fact that the welds are close to supports (and therefore see less moment stress) make up for the localized weakening at the weld? Or I'm I just talking at my a$$, any opinions appreciated.

Since pipe is not cold worked, I doubt it's strength properties change much due to welding, tubing (especially excessively cold worked) I'm not so sure about. Of course tubing is used in welded construction all over the world for a huge variety of different projects, so maybe it isn't an issue.

Chad

my pipe says made in mexico.

Originally posted by JR
I was just curious, because the rocker guards that are on my Cherokee are sch 40 pipe. I can't seem to bend them! But the rocker guards on my Bronco, which are integral to the whole frame and are made of .120 mild steel, seem to bend quite easily.


thats what i have seen over and over. I built the exo for my toy out of 1.25 sch 40 and have had good luck with it in three roles and two flops and dosens of trails in the hammers.

BTW JR it was fun whatching you Bronco at the hammers the 3rd.

Originally posted by chadl
What happens to the "work hardening" once the tube is welded? If I remeber correctly, annealling metal will remove most if not all the properties of hard/cold working, and welding anything unless done very carefully will almost always cause some sort of localized annealling. Chad

You have pretty much got me on that one. But I would bet you are correct. Its probably going to come down to which has more carbon content.

Brook

Thanks, Randy. Let's go out again when it cools a bit!

I'm going to get to the bottom of this pipe thing and find out the alloy of different pipes and which type is best.
Pipe sounds crude, but it really resists the impact of rocks and I want to know why.

Check out this page . . .

http://www.haynesintl.com/H1030aArc/WeldedSP.htm

The big thing about using pipe is to what standard it is made to. Is it type "F" or is it ERW. Type "F" is more prone to spliting I use a lot of A135 sch 40 pipe and have beat on it with a 7000# truck and never had a failure. BTW DOM is made from ERW tube, it's drawn cold after words.

I've been leafing through some reference manuals this morning, looking at different types of piping, and there is a huge variety. Just in standard carbon type, there are about 50 different grades of piping with yield stress ranging from 24 ksi to 50 kis, and tensile strength from 45 ksi to 75 ksi, it goes without saying, that your average black pipe, you find commonly available falls on the low side of these ranges (ie bottom).

If you look at alloys and stainless, you get anothe 50 or so choices, with yield strengths as high as 90 ksi, and tensil strengths as high as 110 ksi (chrome moly).

I believe most of these strengths do not take into account any cold working, or stain hardening, and therefore would not be affected by welding (I say this because these are the strengths that piping is designed to, and most piping of this nature requires welding during installation).

I haven't been able to find any information on tubing, but I'll keep looking.

I think it comes down to knowing what material your using, and knowing how it compares to other proven designs.

any other thoughts

Chad

Originally posted by Rockcrusher
Check out this page . . .

http://www.haynesintl.com/H1030aArc/WeldedSP.htm
From that table:
ERROR: 1-1/4 sch 40 pipe should be 0.14in walled not 1.14in walled.

Cool table though Ill keep that handy.

YELLER BLAZER,

A135 sch 40 pipe? What does A135 specify, control? Is A135 best, whats most common. A135 applies to sch80 also?

ASTM speck? ASTM B619 is ALL Pipe, so does not determine diff strength pipes...

Do you guys have pics of your benders?
H/F pipe bender= Harbor freight bender, Ive see that one i was going to build up a table for one with levels and angle finders built in, Anyone have a home build table to share pics of?

I think the HF hydrolic bender will work fine with the addition of clamps, levels, angle finders, markers, supports.....its all in my head.

lates

Back to the original question, try moving your dies in. If you are doing a 90 degree bend, move them in for as long as possible and then for the last 20 or so degrees start moving them out.

As for pipe strength, my front bumper is pipe and has been beaten like a red headed step chile. scrapes but no bends. I get my pipe from a good steel shop that gets good material from a consistant place. Not home depot or a steel salvage place.

-Jack

but there is some dumb fawk I see driving around town from time to time with a PVC pipe cage.

:eek: what are some of these ppl thinking!!!

A135 has a higher tensil strenth than A53 (standard schedule 40 pipe), and is designed for non circulating water systems, ie: fire sprinkler systems. I've bent it with both the HF cheap hydro bender and fancy mandrell benders with good success, I've also never had a split seam, Remember it is erw like the herw that is acceptable for most racing bodies.

Originally posted by YELLER BLAZER
A135 has a higher tensil strenth than A53 (standard schedule 40 pipe), and is designed for non circulating water systems, ie: fire sprinkler systems. I've bent it with both the HF cheap hydro bender and fancy mandrell benders with good success, I've also never had a split seam, Remember it is erw like the herw that is acceptable for most racing bodies.

THANKS ,

so are there just the two types? A53 and A135

Id think the A53 is more common? Ill check...

How do you get any kind of accurate bend angle out of the HF Hydro bender? methodS?

What does ERW stand for?

Do you bend with the seam on the x axis and your bender along the Y axis, so the seam is on the side of the bends not on the inside or outside?

Great thread guys....

Originally posted by ashmanjeepXJ


THANKS ,

so are there just the two types? A53 and A135

Id think the A53 is more common? Ill check...

What does ERW stand for?

Do you bend with the seam on the x axis and your bender along the Y axis, so the seam is on the side of the bends not on the inside or outside?

Great thread guys....

Lots of grades of pipe, A53, A106, A333-6 are the most common grades to find. A53 & 106 come in grades A & B, A135, A120, A139 are less common grades. These are just the general use carbon grades, Many grades of Alloys also available. Keep in mind that pipe can be dual and triple rated as well. It is possible for pipe to meet A53, A106 & A333-6 grades. Another fact to keep in mind that these specifications are the MINIMUM requiredf by ASTM/ASME specifications. Ask if there is a MTR ( Mill Test Report ) available for the pipe/tube you are buying. For example I have sitting on my desk a MTR for some 3" A106B that we recieved recently. ASTM MINIMUM SPECIFICATIONS ARE: YS: 35.0 KSI, TS: 60.0 KSI, EL: 23.0%, Brinnell C Hardness: 200 For heat # J0L6719 the MTR States: YS: 56.0 KSI, TS: 78.3 KSI, EL: 33.9%, Brinnell C Hardness: 145, all beating the specs by a large amount. This is very common and I have seen MTR with values as high as 40% above the Minimum Specifications.


ERW stands for Electric Resistance Welded Steel Tube

Tube made from strip, sheet or bands by electric resistance heating and pressure, the strip being part of the electrical circuit. The electric current, which may be introduced into the strip through electrodes or by induction, generates the welding heat through the electrical resistance of the strip.


As far as the placement of the seam in the bend, I would have to look that up as far as prefered/code required placement in pressure piping as if that would have anything to do with using it for a structural use.

I dont need an MTR, I just need some good pipe.

So do you agree the A53 is bad for bending?

Simply which series should we look for, that are good for bending making bumpers, sliders and such.

I agree, I would not build a cage or something "structurally important for someone else unless I had an MTR to cover me incase the pipe failed but for us guys On a budget slapping the beast together on weekends, what Speck pipe should we look for?

my exo used to be pipe, i no longer have an exo........... never had a problem with it, and im pretty friggin hard on my rig.... i lost the exo due to loosing some weight off the rig

I'm thinking about buying a bender like a JD2. I'd like to make my nerfs and bumpers out of pipe. Anyone know if I can use a tube die to bend the pipe. I know the sizes differ, but if the tube die was slightly larger it seems like it would still work. Worst case you have to fill the pipe with sand. Any ideas or experience?

Originally posted by broncorob
I'm thinking about buying a bender like a JD2. I'd like to make my nerfs and bumpers out of pipe. Anyone know if I can use a tube die to bend the pipe. I know the sizes differ, but if the tube die was slightly larger it seems like it would still work. Worst case you have to fill the pipe with sand. Any ideas or experience?

No you can't use Tube dies for pipe. But they sell both for the JD2. I got my JD2 here: http://www.vansantent.com/model_3_bender.htm look near the bottom of the page. It shows the available dies.

Chinese versus Thai pipe. I have found that in industrial wastewater applications the Chinese pipe will corrode at a much faster rate than just about any other country's products. A few years ago, I worked for a power company with a nuke plant. At one point, there was an announcement that all nuke plants were to go through their piping systems to inspect for the presence of Chinese made piping as it was not considered to be acceptable for any nuclear application-don't know if it was a political sort of thing, or if there was truth to it, but my personal experiences have been that the Chinese stuff will rot much sooner. Might be a result of poor surface finishing, or failure to adequately rinse it after pickling.

As for the DOM stuff, I was under the impression that the major advantage was in concentricity of the walls and no thin spots. Is this the case?

Bending-I have some thin-wall stainless tubing/pipe that I'd like to use for a snorkel. Any ideas on bending it so it won't collapse? I don't have the lifetime it would require to make angled cuts and weld (silver solder) back together!

Paul