I assume most everyone saw the article in this months FW about the electric Land Rover. I'm a big fan of the internal combustion engine, but the possibilities suggested in the article were pretty interesting (lower center of gravity, less parts to breakdown, more torque, better acceleration, no emissions testing, etc.). Has anyone else thought of doing something like this?

Anyway, I checked out Wilde EVolutions website and they have more details on the Rover (i.e., pics, specs, etc.):
http://store.wilde-evolutions.com/wilde/roverFaceOffPhotos.html

http://store.wilde-evolutions.com/wilde/images/roverFaceOff/RoverChassis.gif

http://store.wilde-evolutions.com/wilde/images/roverFaceOff/H18.jpg

[ 10-23-2001: Message edited by: NoBucks ]

Heavy.....

Actually, accoridng to the specs, it only weighed a couple hundred pounds more than the stock Rover they were testing it against.

Range would be another drawback.

Any idea what the range is?

Range is about 40 miles on one charge. With a small gas engine to recharge, the article said that the range is almost unlimited at 1/2 gallon of gas/hour.

Horsepower was 100, Torque was 450 lb-ft at 0 rpm, and it went 0-60 in 11.93 seconds, cf. to the gas powered Rover, at 26.34 seconds. Curb weight for the electric Rover was 3560 lbs. and the gas Rover weighed in at 3281 lbs.

I saw this a few years ago. Interesting concept. The company I work for (formally Chryslers's Military Electronics group) has an Electric Vehicle group. We prototyped a Hybrid Electric HUMVEE for the Army. Tests have been pretty good. Specs show that it has more power than the standard HUMVEE, can climb a steeper grade, and has a higher top speed (personally I'll believe it all when I see it). It does drive and work though. They took it cross country last year.

I'd love to see the faces of the Sierra Club if a workable electric Off-road vehicle was debuted and was inexpensive <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">

Robert

Hmmmm..... We have a fiat X19 in our shop that was converted like that. Its kinda cool, very clean install job. But, why use the stock trans? I mean with electric motors you don't really need to run a 5spd trans and transfercase. You'd save a lot of weight plus power loss by just hooking the motors up to the axles or even right at the wheels. Then there is no need for crawler gears or lockers. You could even build your own extra high clearance axles. If you mounted the motors somehow on the front spindles there wouldn't even be steering u-joints to break. Its a cool idea if that whole range issue could be solved.

Kev

Originally posted by Doc Savage:
<STRONG>I saw this a few years ago. Interesting concept. The company I work for (formally Chryslers's Military Electronics group) has an Electric Vehicle group. We prototyped a Hybrid Electric HUMVEE for the Army. Tests have been pretty good. Specs show that it has more power than the standard HUMVEE, can climb a steeper grade, and has a higher top speed (personally I'll believe it all when I see it). It does drive and work though. They took it cross country last year.
</STRONG>

Here's a link to the EV Hummer: http://www.uqm.com/Technologies/programs/hummer.html

If I'm looking at the picture right, doesn't that EV Hummer have individual motors for each wheel? That would be cool. How difficult would that be to do, I wonder?

[ 10-23-2001: Message edited by: NoBucks ]

Also, range should be unlimited on the HMMWV, right, since it has the diesel generator under the hood?

Here's the picture:

http://home.off-road.com/~nobucks/misc/evhummer.jpg

Originally posted by Ghetto Fab.:
<STRONG>Hmmmm..... We have a fiat X19 in our shop that was converted like that. Its kinda cool, very clean install job. But, why use the stock trans? I mean with electric motors you don't really need to run a 5spd trans and transfercase. You'd save a lot of weight plus power loss by just hooking the motors up to the axles or even right at the wheels. Then there is no need for crawler gears or lockers. You could even build your own extra high clearance axles. If you mounted the motors somehow on the front spindles there wouldn't even be steering u-joints to break. Its a cool idea if that whole range issue could be solved.

Kev</STRONG>


Electric motors do produce their peak torque at zero rpm, but they still benefit from gear reduction. With no gear reduction a starter motor could not turn over an engine, but with 6 teeth or so on the motor, and 157 teeth on the flywheel the motors torque is multiplied by 26 times or so.

Electric vehicle to me just means that some one else does the polluting to supply the power for your batteries.

40 mile range sucks.

Hmmm, take the 4 motor idea, and design the controler so that each motor could be controled sepratly

Originally posted by Rocktoad:
<STRONG>Electric vehicle to me just means that some one else does the polluting to supply the power for your batteries.

40 mile range sucks.</STRONG>

Who cares about who's polluting! Notice I didn't list, "No emissions." I said, "No Emissions Testing," i.e., no government hassles.

As far as range goes, if you can recharge while you're driving and can go 80 miles on a 1/2 gallon of gas, what's the problem?

160 MPG in a wheeling rig :drool:

<IMG SRC="smilies/rainbow.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/rainbow.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/rainbow.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/rainbow.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/rainbow.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/rainbow.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/rainbow.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/rainbow.gif" border="0"> nuff said!

did i mention it was <IMG SRC="smilies/rainbow.gif" border="0">

You can get small wind generators for $500 that you could put on a pole at camp <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> Seriously though, a small generator would work fine, because you go so slow on the trail anyways. You wouldn't be using ANY power when you were stopped.

This would be VERY cool. Someone must make an adapter to connect an electric motor to a Toyota drivetrain......

Electric cars suck, we built one in my auto class at school, and they suck!

I used to work on electric forklifts and I'll tell you this. Heat & vibration kill them quickly. Not a good option for a 4x IMO.

This would be way cool as a trail rig only! Really it would be good as a daily driver. I would go for a 5 gal tank and have a 400 mile range per $7.50 (average gas prices).

Who has the financing for those things? Is iffy credit okay! Where do I sign. <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">

badassjeepguy: You seem a little homo-phobic.... too close to home? LOL <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> What is wrong with this idea(given we could slap on some 38's, HP 60's, and some deep gears)? Please explain your position, if you have one?

Originally posted by SweetCJ7:
<STRONG>This would be way cool as a trail rig only! Really it would be good as a daily driver. I would go for a 5 gal tank and have a 400 mile range per $7.50 (average gas prices).

Who has the financing for those things? Is iffy credit okay! Where do I sign. <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">

badassjeepguy: You seem a little homo-phobic.... too close to home? LOL <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> What is wrong with this idea(given we could slap on some 38's, HP 60's, and some deep gears)? Please explain your position, if you have one?</STRONG>


my position is.... i dont like it... period....

and if i want to be homo phobic, thats my damn right to be.... im not into <IMG SRC="smilies/rainbow.gif" border="0"> over sized golf carts....... it is <IMG SRC="smilies/rainbow.gif" border="0"> imho!

OK, I'm calling Bullshit on the milage claim. If they can really get 120 mpg out of a '71 Land Rover (as implied in Four Wheeler, top of middle column p94, 1/2 gal per hour at 60 mph = 120 mpg), don't you think you'd be able to buy a new Civic that got 200 mpg?

I found the article to be interesting, but not particularly well writen from a technical stand point.

Pete

Just fawking go Propane.

Clean burning fuel. Standard simple botor that is already proven to work very well.

And you don't need all them damn heavy batteries.

Originally posted by pcorssmit:
<STRONG>OK, I'm calling Bullshit on the milage claim. If they can really get 120 mpg out of a '71 Land Rover (as implied in Four Wheeler, top of middle column p94, 1/2 gal per hour at 60 mph = 120 mpg), don't you think you'd be able to buy a new Civic that got 200 mpg?

I found the article to be interesting, but not particularly well writen from a technical stand point.

Pete</STRONG>

But that would piss off the oil companies.

I don't buy that for a second. Even if Honda didn't want to, somebody else would do it.

Pete

Originally posted by NoBucks:
<STRONG>Range is about 40 miles on one charge. With a small gas engine to recharge, the article said that the range is almost unlimited at 1/2 gallon of gas/hour.

</STRONG>


I think the point is that it recharges the batteries at the rate of 1/2 gal per hour. Yes it is <IMG SRC="smilies/rainbow.gif" border="0"> but I thought I would see what kind of reaction I could get out of ya! Sorry for the feather ruffling. LOL I'm a little bored this morning...

I would say one of the main reasons Honda or others haven't done it is cost.

The new Honda and Toyota hybrid cars get amazing mileage and look not too bad and because of the $$$ involved they haven't been selling.

Originally posted by pcorssmit:
<STRONG>OK, I'm calling Bullshit on the milage claim. If they can really get 120 mpg out of a '71 Land Rover (as implied in Four Wheeler, top of middle column p94, 1/2 gal per hour at 60 mph = 120 mpg), don't you think you'd be able to buy a new Civic that got 200 mpg?

I found the article to be interesting, but not particularly well writen from a technical stand point.

Pete</STRONG>
The generator uses 1/2 gallon per hour, but I doubt it produces enough juice to keep up with the drain of driving it at 60 MPH.

On the trail the generator would keep the batteries charged in between obstacles. On the road it wouldn't help much, unless you kept stopping to wait for the batteries to charge.

"Range is fairly short. At 120 volts, it's only avout 15 to 30 miles on the street. The 192-volt setup can run up to 40 miles. This is a major drawback for travel or some commutes, but if you were to build the rig as a hybrid, with an auxiliary generator, range would cease to be an issue. Yes, this does negate some of the Lectro-Rover's environmentally friendly aspects, but even a generator powerful enough to power the Lectro-Rover on long trips would use only about a half a gallon of fuel an hour. The typical older Land Rover at 60 mph would use approximately four gallons per hour."

Pete

Originally posted by badassjeepguy:
<STRONG>
my position is.... i dont like it... period....

and if i want to be homo phobic, thats my damn right to be.... im not into <IMG SRC="smilies/rainbow.gif" border="0"> over sized golf carts....... it is <IMG SRC="smilies/rainbow.gif" border="0"> imho!</STRONG>

Well said! I'm on your side of the fence on this one!
<IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

Sooner or later, hopefully much later, the internal combustion engine will be phased out in pasenger cars and light trucks.

At least this Land Rover thing is 4WD!!

Originally posted by Cutter:
<STRONG>Well said! I'm on your side of the fence on this one!
<IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"></STRONG>


<IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/skull.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/smokin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/beer.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/blender.gif" border="0">

Well if you say it is so <IMG SRC="smilies/rainbow.gif" border="0"> . If it is fully electric and sealed properly, it would have unlimited fording depth, intill you drown at least wouldnt it? That is pretty hardcore if ya ask me.

i think its a neat concept, but a bit <IMG SRC="smilies/rainbow.gif" border="0"> . how much do 20 or so optimas cost anyway? around 3 grand(deep cycle's) oh yeah, who cares about fording depth anyway? if unlimited fording depth makes something hardcore, my truck is a total pu$$y. to each his own though....cheers ya'll <IMG SRC="smilies/beer.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/beer.gif" border="0">

What about a completely hydraulic drivetrain, like is used in those monster size mining trucks?

That might have some cool possibilities

Originally posted by Toy 4Runner man:
<STRONG>Hmmm, take the 4 motor idea, and design the controler so that each motor could be controled sepratly</STRONG>

That's basically what we tired. From the scuttle butt I heard, the thing could have a zero turn radius (stresses the suspension like crazy and things break fairly quickly doing it though).

We recently did a postal van and a UPS truck. The Hummer is still more of a "science project" we seem to keep working on though.

Hey don't tell the enviros electric vehicles just shift the pollution, We'd hate to burst their bubble <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">

Robert

This is for those that think the hybrid HMMWV is a good idea. And let's not forget the Government contractors that dream up (hype up) this stuff and gullible Logistic branch that keeps on buying it! Right as we speak the Army is testing HMMWVs and heavier trucks for the hyrbid dream. Lord help our troops if it every get's fielded.

First: we're talking combat vehicles here, soldiers lives depend on it. What happens with all that acid if, god forbid, it turns turtle? How about if some local puts a bullet hole in it? I'ld rather sit in a DF-2 bath than have electrolyte leaking on me, gel form or not.

Second: What about cold weather? Ever look at a battery/temperature chart? At zero degrees you don't have half the amperage you do at seventy. I work with a fleet of eighty vehicles, each with two, four, or six batteries, and we replace more 6TL's than I'ld care to admit (even with Solargizers).

Third: This is not proven technology. Let the commericial industry work the bugs out. The military is not a good place to experiment. Despite all the high tech gadgets you see on CNN the military still drags one foot in the past. Common tools that probably most of you have at home (like a complete set of air tools) are not available to most Army mechanics. Training for repairmen is weak by industry standards.

I'll get off my soapbox now, my blood pressure is starting to rise.

<IMG SRC="smilies/mad.gif" border="0">

We built one up at Chico about 5 years back. 200hp electric motor if I remember correctly. 0-60 in under 7 seconds and had a range of 200miles! This was 5 years back!

Electric trail rigs would be gay as fawk and I hope they dont ever come about for good <IMG SRC="smilies/rainbow.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/rainbow.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by Diesel Dan:
<STRONG>This is for those that think the hybrid HMMWV is a good idea. And let's not forget the Government contractors that dream up (hype up) this stuff and gullible Logistic branch that keeps on buying it! Right as we speak the Army is testing HMMWVs and heavier trucks for the hyrbid dream. Lord help our troops if it every get's fielded.

First: we're talking combat vehicles here, soldiers lives depend on it. What happens with all that acid if, god forbid, it turns turtle? How about if some local puts a bullet hole in it? I'ld rather sit in a DF-2 bath than have electrolyte leaking on me, gel form or not.

Second: What about cold weather? Ever look at a battery/temperature chart? At zero degrees you don't have half the amperage you do at seventy. I work with a fleet of eighty vehicles, each with two, four, or six batteries, and we replace more 6TL's than I'ld care to admit (even with Solargizers).

Third: This is not proven technology. Let the commericial industry work the bugs out. The military is not a good place to experiment. Despite all the high tech gadgets you see on CNN the military still drags one foot in the past. Common tools that probably most of you have at home (like a complete set of air tools) are not available to most Army mechanics. Training for repairmen is weak by industry standards.

I'll get off my soapbox now, my blood pressure is starting to rise.

<IMG SRC="smilies/mad.gif" border="0"></STRONG>

Optimas don't leak. Even when you shoot them. I do agree with you second and third points though.

Optimas don't leak. Even when you shoot them.

Can I dangle a broken one over your head to prove that? <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> Who said that Uncle Sam would pay for Optimas? Have you ever hear of the phrase "lowest bidder?" <IMG SRC="smilies/crybaby2.gif" border="0">

I wonder if sparks fly when they do take a round <IMG SRC="smilies/question.gif" border="0"> I won't mention what happends when a newbie connects the batteries up wrong (series/parallel). Sure does makes people jump the first start though. <IMG SRC="smilies/eek.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by Diesel Dan:
<STRONG>Optimas don't leak. Even when you shoot them.

Can I dangle a broken one over your head to prove that? <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> Who said that Uncle Sam would pay for Optimas? Have you ever hear of the phrase "lowest bidder?" <IMG SRC="smilies/crybaby2.gif" border="0">
</STRONG>

I think if they can shell out $ 2,100.000.000,- for a single stealth bomber, they could spend some $$$ on optimas

<IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/grinpimp.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/grinpimp.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/grinpimp.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by Jeepmangled87:
<STRONG>Electric trail rigs would be gay as fawk and I hope they dont ever come about for good <IMG SRC="smilies/rainbow.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/rainbow.gif" border="0"></STRONG>
So are jeeps with 30" tires <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0">

Imagine a trail rig that is dead silent, 200 hp and would never stall... oh yeah, a transmission with only 1 speed and you probably would not need crawler gears because you could use REGEN braking <IMG SRC="smilies/tongue.gif" border="0">

SUPER FAWKING <IMG SRC="smilies/rainbow.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/rainbow.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/rainbow.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/rainbow.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/rainbow.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/rainbow.gif" border="0">
I hate the entire idea! <IMG SRC="smilies/pissed.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/flipoff.gif" border="0">