I am fairly new to this. I have a family member that can convert gear ratios in his head, and he has and XJ. What I am looking for is to have a more family freindly ride, that I can get extremely good gas mieleage out of an tow a our small camper with too. I do want to lift it 6" and put 35's on it. Not really sure about all the specs and configuration of the ZJ. Has anyone ever tried to put a deisel that big in one before? Can the frame handle it? Am I just living in a dream world?

Give me advice please. Thinking about a year 2000ish ZJ, and would put the cummins manual tranny behind the motor.

Go back to drawing board. By the way, can you expand on your second sentence?

I guess I'm actually looking more at a WJ. Instead of ZJ. I found a lift made by Rock Kralwer that would give me 6.5 inches. That is about where I would like it to be and then I will fit the tires after that.

I'm still on the drawing board. That is why I came here to get help and expetise from people that are more familiar with Jeeps than I am.

My Brother in law is here to help me (the gear ratio's guy) and he doesn't have a lot of experience with ZJ/WJ jeeps. He has an XJ and has had Toyota's in the past. We put a mild lift on his XJ about a year ago (i think 3") and he has further plans but is in his senior year and University of Utah. He told me to look online to see if anyone has tried it before.

well, for one thing a zj's and wj's are both unibody so you dont have a frame either way.

Even a 4BT would be too much for a unibody rig. All that vibration would kill it in no time.

Even a 4BT would be too much for a unibody rig. All that vibration would kill it in no time.

vibration? i'd be more worried about weight and torque... but some unibody stiffening of some sort would pretty much solve that IMO.

there are a couple 4bt XJ's and a 4bt ZJ around... so it is definitely possible.

the 4bt might be a bit much weight for the d30, a d44 would handle it better.

6bt...forget it. but, build a 4bt with some power mods and you will have a good power/weight ratio and the vehicle will hold up better.

good luck, check into emissions/inspection before going anywhere with it...

no doubt the 6bt would tear it apart, IF you could get it in there to begin with. A 4bt would still need some masive fab work to get a frame in place that could handle the vibes. And speaking of vibes....this things gona shake rattle and roll like an SOB. I wouldn't wanna drive that thing on a daily basis, or road trips. That's for sure.

As long as you properly fabbed up the engine mounts and the crossmember, why would it rattle any more than a stock grand cherokee?

diesels rattle WAY more than a gas motor. that's why they never put em in a unibody.

the new Libertys and Grand Cherokees arent unibodies?

Damn, arctycfox, pick up a magazine sometime.

ok the new CRD diesels are in a totaly different class than a 4bt. Sorry, my comment about then having never been a uni-body was wrong. Sorry. But comparing the CRD diesel in a Liberty to a 4bt is not realistic

ok the new CRD diesels are in a totaly different class than a 4bt. Sorry, my comment about then having never been a uni-body was wrong. Sorry. But comparing the CRD diesel in a Liberty to a 4bt is not realistic

IIRC diesels were also in reg cherokees and possibly MJs(could be wrong about MJ) but they were marketed over seas. I would think a 4BT would be a good motor.

you i would NOT go through with your plan. i just drove from Tampa, FL to layton, UT with a 4.0 XJ and about 7" lift on 36"s pulling a trailer. It sucked. Ever time i hit a dip I white knucked that steering wheel.



to the grammer nazis: I realize I did not capitalize much too bad

4BT would not be a good choice for a family rig. Poor driveablility, limited RPM range and they shake, rattle and roll like no other engine on earth. The 4BT is an inherently unbalanced engine. They vibrate like crazy, even compared to the 6BT. Your family would not be happy running around in a rig that has rattly noises every where from the constant vibration.
I have also alway believed the B- series engines are a very poor choice for rock crawlers. They are a very tall engine, requiring a lot of lift to allow clearence for drive shafts, front axles, suspesion links. If you mount them high in the chassis for clearence, you run into a high center of gravity issue.

Ok so it looks like the general consensus is that my idea sucks and lacks reality. What about putting other deisel engines in a ZJ or WJ. I'm not against stiffening the body. I am also not aginast doing fab work.

Also heard of putting the new 2.2 ecotec GM out of the Cobalt SS in an XJ. Puts out something like 260 HP and 220 Lbs of torque at around 2500 RPM.

I do want to have the ability to drive it every day. I live in central Utah and commute to Salt Lake City for work every day. Some days I would really like to have a 4 wheel drive vehicle so my drive is a little more secure feeling. If this idea doesn't work I'm just gonna go get a Subaru.

If I remember right there is a little yellow MJ running arround on here with a 4bt. its a super clean little rig but I dont remember what was done to keep the jeep together.

Ok so it looks like the general consensus is that my idea sucks and lacks reality. What about putting other deisel engines in a ZJ or WJ. I'm not against stiffening the body. I am also not aginast doing fab work.

Also heard of putting the new 2.2 ecotec GM out of the Cobalt SS in an XJ. Puts out something like 260 HP and 220 Lbs of torque at around 2500 RPM.

I do want to have the ability to drive it every day. I live in central Utah and commute to Salt Lake City for work every day. Some days I would really like to have a 4 wheel drive vehicle so my drive is a little more secure feeling. If this idea doesn't work I'm just gonna go get a Subaru.

MB diesel could be interesting, but it could be underpowered...

MB diesel could be interesting, but it could be underpowered...
Are you referring to an early MB?
The MB CRD has over 200hp.

He's willing to drop the coin on the ecotech, a used crd shouldn't be much more.

Are you referring to an early MB?
The MB CRD has over 200hp.

He's willing to drop the coin on the ecotech, a used crd shouldn't be much more.

i was referring to the OM617's that are somewhat popular for swaps... since 4Xlabs is making an adapter (at least last i heard they were) it might be a pretty easy swap.

i haven't priced a used CRD engine, but that would be sweet to do...

with enough time invested in the 4bt swap, it wouldn't be a bad rig, my durango's not all that bad, it's noisy outside, but inside it's not too bad. i don't have kids to complain though.

All I can ask is why? Why on earth would you spend all that time and money on a diesel. If your family member is smart enough to "convert gear ratios in his head, and owns a XJ," then he should be able to tell you with 35's and a V8 you would have a reliable power plant getting 12-14mpg. How family friendly is that rig with a broke down 4bt in the middle of nowhere?

Where are these people with more money than brains getting their damn money? Why do I have brains and no money???:shaking::shaking::shaking:

All I can ask is why? Why on earth would you spend all that time and money on a diesel. If your family member is smart enough to "convert gear ratios in his head, and owns a XJ," then he should be able to tell you with 35's and a V8 you would have a reliable power plant getting 12-14mpg. How family friendly is that rig with a broke down 4bt in the middle of nowhere?

Where are these people with more money than brains getting their damn money? Why do I have brains and no money???:shaking::shaking::shaking:

No need to be a jack***! I came here to ask if it was possible. It appears that this is not the best idea. You may have brains but you have no common decency or respectability.

I am looking to get 20+mpg. This would be possible with the tourque of a diesel and the right gears.

Just like your mom should have said "if you don't have anything nice to say- then shut the hell up!":flipoff2:

No need to be a jack***! I came here to ask if it was possible. It appears that this is not the best idea. You may have brains but you have no common decency or respectability.

I am looking to get 20+mpg. This would be possible with the tourque of a diesel and the right gears.

Just like your mom should have said "if you don't have anything nice to say- then shut the hell up!":flipoff2:




My mother taught me what common fawking sense is.

And I taught myself not to get butt hurt when someone tells me my idea is ridiculous when im in a hardcore forum and I ask for other peoples opinions.

All I can ask is why? Why on earth would you spend all that time and money on a diesel. If your family member is smart enough to "convert gear ratios in his head, and owns a XJ," then he should be able to tell you with 35's and a V8 you would have a reliable power plant getting 12-14mpg. How family friendly is that rig with a broke down 4bt in the middle of nowhere?

Where are these people with more money than brains getting their damn money? Why do I have brains and no money???:shaking::shaking::shaking:

sometimes people like things that aren't run of the mill. don't get me wrong, i think V8's are great (my next rig has one), but i like getting 25-26 mpg in my durango. yea it drops down to 14 or so towing my ZJ.... i can still park it in the city too... it has NEVER left me stranded, i have 16k miles on the swap.... with a little more sound deadening, it would be reasonably quiet too.

it has NEVER left me stranded, i have 16k miles on the swap....

That's only because you carry an entire garage worth of tools with you, plus a few gallons of water and spare hoses. :grinpimp:

My mother taught me what common fawking sense is.

And I taught myself not to get butt hurt when someone tells me my idea is ridiculous when im in a hardcore forum and I ask for other peoples opinions.

The hardcore forum is one below this one. This is the cherokee forum. And obviously sense is not common - or you would have used it instead of insulting people that are new to the sport - as I stated in my opening post.:flipoff2:

The hardcore forum is one below this one. This is the cherokee forum. And obviously sense is not common - or you would have used it instead of insulting people that are new to the sport - as I stated in my opening post.:flipoff2:

Man you just keep shooting yourself in the foot. Read the post at the top of the page that states: READ BEFORE POSTING

IF YOU HAD READ IT YOU WOULD SEE THAT IT STATES:

The intent of this forum is to have a place to go for modified unibody questions that are of mid to hardcore level without having to search threw all the TJ, YJ, CJ tech type questions. Think of it as an advanced technical forum for unibody rigs.

What belongs in this forum?

TECH.

Here are some examples: major modifications and up-grades not normally purchased as a kit, but that require individual ingenuity, innovation, and perseverance in design. Unibody reinforcement, larger axle swaps, fitting big tires, JeepSpeed builds, fabbing 3 and 4 link suspensions, custom fabricated parts, drivetrain swaps, and other advanced/fabrication type questions

Cherokee based buggy tech would be the most hardcore level of tech here, but this forum won't be the best place to find answers for those types of questions, one of the other forums on this site would have more info and get better responses of those few extreme XJ based buggys...

The common theme here is fabrication, advanced technical information and questions.

What doesn't belong in this forum?

What size tire fits with a 3" lift, bolt ons, drivability issues, parts identification, troubleshooting stock electrical issues, or questions about budget boost kits and countless other things...

There is a Non-hardcore Jeep forum(flame free) in place here on this site and are many other sites with forums that are already available for stock, entry level and bolt on type questions.

Non Pirate4x4 hosted Cherokee related trail runs and events do not belong here, they are not tech. It is ok to post them in the Cherokee seciton but they will be moved with a re-direct to the correct regional forum or Competition and Events forum.

Think of this as a college level forum, so don't post kindergarten level and grade school topics here. Kindergarden and grade school questions belong in the Non-hardcore Jeep forum or on a different site.

This forum is for the the guys that think outside of the box, get their suntans at night from welding, put their blood and sweat into their builds, aren't afraid of the sawzall, and enjoy building parts instead of buying them.
__________________

The reason I pointed out your post lacked any common sense is
1 - You referred to a 2000 GC being a "ZJ"
2 - You had no idea a ZJ had a unibody or that you would need to brace it
3 - You Said nothing about the 795lbs of a 5.9l Cummins
4 - You said nothing about the transfer case swap you would need
5 - You said nothing about the front axle swap you would need
6 - You said nothing about the instrument orientation
7 - You said nothing of cost
8 - You said nothing of the driveline upgrades you would need
9 - You mentioned bolting on a lift kit that has been argued in countless threads about having low quality
10 - You are proposing to do a project that will take months and then bolt on a lift kit thinking it will net you the stated 6.5 inches of lift it advertises

You did no research, you just said to yourself "Hey lets throw a Cummins in a jeep that doesnt exist." And then thought "Why dont I do absolutely no research and post on a hardcore cherokee forum about it."

This is why your post lacked common sense. I never insulted you, I said you had used no common sense in posting with no researching what so ever.

Point taken - That is why I came here. I am new to 4x4 offroading, not fabrication, not working, and not new to discussion boards.

Going back to you original post about you having all the brains but no money. If you are so smart - you must lack ambition, as is evident by the extensive amount of time you spend on the internet posting about your jeep that appears to be the full extent of yout manhood. SHUT UP!!!!

Diesel ZJ

http://www.mallcrawlin.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13679&highlight=diesel

Going back to you original post about you having all the brains but no money. If you are so smart - you must lack ambition, as is evident by the extensive amount of time you spend on the internet posting about your jeep that appears to be the full extent of yout manhood. SHUT UP!!!!

Man you are going to hurt my feelings with your presumptions :(:(:(:(


Diesel ZJ

http://www.mallcrawlin.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13679&highlight=diesel

That is bad ass, did he end up selling it?

3 - You Said nothing about the 795lbs of a 5.9l Cummins


that numbers closer to a loaded 3.9, not the 5.9, try 1k+ with accessories/etc.

....Man you just keep shooting yourself in the foot......

The common theme here is fabrication, advanced technical information and QUESTIONS....

Hey man u want a bandage for the bullet hole in ur foot?

Id go as far to say that a question as to the feasability of a Large Diesel Swap into a GC be it ZJ or WJ is at least a mid-rated tech question and a good idea. Id also say it falls uner the non bolt on out of the box catagory as well.
Its a good idea maybe not the 5.9L but hey that's why he asked I think a Diesel Swap into a semi-daily driven rig that needs towing capabilities is pretty cool plus the added wieght will alow him to run smaller springs in the rear and can net him around 4" of lift in the front (with the 6.5" kit) and can help in the snow of UT. And UT snow sucks. Overall this is a good idea and not a bad question. And for someone with a rig like yours id hope you spend more time and energy wheelin and bashin ur rig than flamin people on here. Lol

This whole idea really comes down to gutting a wj and replacing engine, tranny, tcase, drivelines, front and rear axles, brakes, fuel system, wheels and tires, and finally the suspension. Oh, yeah, building a frame to bolt it all onto, or strengthening the sheetmetal you have now.

That is why I said, back to the drawing board, and others have expressed similar sentiments.

I vote to delete this thread. There is nothing remotely worth keeping in this thread.

I vote to delete this thread. There is nothing remotely worth keeping in this thread.

Yeah man lets do - All the questions I wanted to know were answered in the last several posts. Even yours! Your initial post said nothing supporting your statement. You and kidkralwer are of the same group and mindset, that everyon in here is a damn expert and knows as much as you. Remember when you has to ask someone questions? Or were you always gifted.

I'm not a rookie. I have designed and built several sandrails, and was the GM for a classic car restoration company. The reason I didn't ask a lot of questions, because I already new the answers. All these flames are not neccessary or needed. Delete the post all knowing one.

Thanks for supplying the link to another more friendly web board that appears to be more interested in what I am looking at trying.

check out www.4btswaps.com it is based on conversions. started with the 4bt, there are more motors being discussed now.

A friend of mine has a 4BT in his ZJ with long arms. Never had any issues.
There's a post about it on mallcrawlin.

Hey man u want a bandage for the bullet hole in ur foot?

is pretty cool plus the added wieght will alow him to run smaller leaf springs in the rear and can net him around 4" of lift in the front (with the 6.5" kit) and can help in the snow of UT.


well while the gun is going off you might as well jump in front of it. neither a zj or wj has leaf springs unless he swapped those in also.

well while the gun is going off you might as well jump in front of it. neither a zj or wj has leaf springs unless he swapped those in also.


:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing: :laughing::laughing:

Awesome, I did not catch that, and even better he went back and edited it, this thread brings the funnay:laughing:

:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing: :laughing::laughing:

Awesome, I did not catch that, and even better he went back and edited it, this thread brings the funnay:laughing:

good thing it was quoted :laughing:

ummmm, we know about that one :rolleyes:

A friend of mine has a 4BT in his ZJ with long arms. Never had any issues.
There's a post about it on mallcrawlin.

Diesel ZJ

http://www.mallcrawlin.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13679&highlight=diesel

Your right I did edit it. I also made a post about how its easy for people to make mistakes especialy after drivin 800 miles in 13 hours, even from a member of a off road pioner family like myself, that somehow got deleted when I edited some spelling mistakes n it was late so I didn't repost it yet lmao.

But hey if flammin people over the internet makes you feel like more of a man and less of a "kidkrawler" then by all means.

But hangin out on a off road BB and makin fun of other peoples mistakes dosnt make you a wheeler, much less a bad ass wheeler, it just makes you a loud mouth ass.

So please continue. Cause real wheelers will continue to laugh then hit the trails n party while web wheelers flame "lesser beings"

Lmmfao some of yall crack me up

But hey if flammin people over the internet makes you feel like more of a man and less of a "kidkrawler" then by all means.



Thats funny right there

Fuel economy
http://www.hibredvehicles.com/honda-insight2-silverstone-metallic.jpg
Torque
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2007/05/23/049011.1-lg.jpg
Family friendly
http://denverautosolutions.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/2009-chrysler-town-country-002.jpg

How about pick one? Big tires contribute to poor MPG, and if you don't know how big a cummins is then you probably aren't going to have the ability to do the extensive fabricating needed, look for a used crew cab short bed diesel pickup, my duramax gets 18mpg, dodge 6 speed does a touch better.