Well, it seems weird doing a build thread for something other than the bronco, but its time. After flopping plugly last season, the tops wont go on, and thus the boys will be subject to rain and heat. two things I am not crazy about. (you know, its a funny thing being a father. i never cared about shit; see bad shit all day long at work, take stupid chances and otherwise disregard my health and safety. But now that I am married with two boys, that is all I worry about. ) i also had some isssues with smog this year. granted, they were my own fault, but IMO, the green weenies are going to be gunning for the 80's and 90's cars here pretty soon. SOOOOOOO, I decided to spend a lot of money (250 bucks) and bought a 1961 Scout 80. Stock it has a twin stick D18, 152 4cyl motor, D27 axles with 4.27 gears and lockers, a 100" wheel base, and a shit load of rusty bolts/parts. It also only weighs 3900 pounds from factory, so I am shooting for 5K total. here it is in all its glory the day i bought it
.
http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/684812/fullsize/newscout1.jpg

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/684813/fullsize/newscout2.jpg

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/684814/fullsize/newscout4.jpg

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/684815/fullsize/newscoutinside.jpg

So the plan is to strip the Bronco, and put the scout on front and rear radius arms, 1 tons, 42 now with 44's next, the 351, klune and 205, etc, etc. All the shit the bronco has. I also plan to stretch the wheel base from 100 to 110 at least, likely 115ish, exo/ino cage it, and cut the fawk out of it. Hopefully it will be street legal as I like driving around town too much, and still would rather drive to the trail than tow.

Sooo, on to the build up.


It came with saddle style fuel tanks on either side as you guys know. they were prone to causing rust apparently.

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/686220/fullsize/tankrust.jpg

So i pulled the tanks, and am going to use a scout II tank for 19 gallons, and hopefully it will fit ahead of the rear axle. This leaves the old gas tank area available for storage with a little welding and some sheetmetal. (imagination required here)

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/686214/fullsize/fueltankspace.jpg

One of the reasons I like this vintage scout is (aside from being pre-smog) the super shitty fabber friendly interior

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/686211/fullsize/cabarea.jpg

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/686216/fullsize/rearinterior.jpg

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/686218/fullsize/rearpic.jpg

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/686217/fullsize/rearpassenger.jpg

this is the reason for wanting to stretch it. I had a early bronco in high-school, and realized you really couldn't fit all that much in the back with a back seat there. Add in TWO car seats for the next few years, and space becomes even more limited. The cooler BARELY fits in there, and as the boys grow, their heads will hit. I am safety geek, so that wont work.

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/686212/fullsize/carseatroom.jpg


So i decided that 6" of stretch would be a good compromise between aesthetics and function. Will give plenty of room for the boys, and not be too long for a ten inch rear wheel stretch. I am also going to comp cut the rear. You can see how simple stretching it should be. Its all right angles :pickle: This pic is a 41" radial spare i have. the hubs are about 2 inches above where they would be IF mounted to wheels, and this is with NO lift from stock. So I am thinking like 6" lift max and a comp cut will be PLENTY

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/686215/fullsize/nofendertireclearance.jpg

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/686219/fullsize/sideview.jpg

In the front, i plan to remove all the core support, etc and replace it with tube. imagine a big U coming from the firewall along where the fenders attach, and tying into the frame. The front axle will get pushed 4 to 6" depending on firewall clearance. Im hoping to push the 351 forward and down, so i can make the firewall flat, and gain some more leg room. time will tell for his


http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/686213/fullsize/enginecompartment.jpg

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/686211/fullsize/cabarea.jpg


I plan to wheel the 94 bronco for one more season. I really want to push it through squeeze rock at fordyce and run the hammers in it. Then, it gets cut up. So its just cleaning and body stuff for now. maybe a little prewire down the road.

anyway, this will be a slow build. Im HOPING for summer of 2010, but apparently scout builds take like 6 or more years :flipoff2:

Looks like a good start.

i like those rear fenders,copycat.LOL

yeah, I figured I wasnt original. Hadn't seen it done till you posted it, but it looks good. Now I know I want to do it this way.

whats your wheel base at? are you stretching the front?

i've stretched the rear about 6 and the front 9 so i can nose up to something and don't have to worrt about draggin the ass end on the depart,right now center of front hub to center of rear hub is 115''

heres a shot of the bump out front and a fleet shot
my 71 800B,80 scout 2 SOA, hysteer all new everything bla!bla!bla!
and my 78

how did you get the rear quarter out, drill out every spot weld? I am drilling (or whatever the flush bits are) out every one right now and it is taking ages..

dig the shop Chris..

right now i'm waiting on all the stuff for the front axle, hysteer arms tie rod and drag link,tre's all from Aaron at harsh terrain.then R/P,(5:13's) inner seals and flanges from i don't know yet but gonna find and order this week

quarter out? just masked them out with tape and cut them out,then i had some 20 gauge sheet metal 2" wide folded inhalf and slid it up on the cut edge,spot welded it about every 3" just so the entire edge is smooth

i love my shop,best thing i ever did. 30x50 w/ 10 ceilings,200 amp service and more toys and tools than one could want says my wife

yeah brandon, drilling them out. I got a spot weld drill bit from MAC autobody on Auburn (6001 IIRC, cross of greenback). Cuts through the spots pretty well.

Definately a nice start, keeping an eye on this build.

don't toss that rear bumper, I'll take it for my trailer :)

Drilled out about 100 spot welds on mine today, there must be 10,000. Bleh..

It also only weighs 3900 pounds from factory, so I am shooting for 5K total..... put the scout on front and rear radius arms, 1 tons, 42 now with 44's next, the 351, klune and 205, etc, etc. All the shit the bronco has. I also plan to stretch the wheel base from 100 to 110 at least, likely 115ish, exo/ino cage it, and cut the fawk out of it. Hopefully it will be street legal as I like driving around town too much

:lmao::lmao: Let me know how far off you get from your 5k 'hopes' when its done!

My junk...63 scout 80, 152/T18/spicer18, D44's F/R, exo/ino cage with 1.5" HREW, 19 gal cell, 5 37" mtrs, 52" chevys, stretched 6", lots cut out, no doors, half cab, windshield glass only. equally weighted in trail form 2125F/2125R= 4250lbs

http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/4499/p9061701qx0.jpg
http://ihsto.org/crushers/crushers4.JPG

Cool build! You will have a hard time keeping it under 5,500lbs :grinpimp:

yeah Dan. Im hoping for 5, but likely 5500. one tons and 42's arent light.

:smokin: Looks like a good start.

It's gonna be bitchen!

does anyone have any good ideas on how to reinforce the fenders after cutting out the bulkhead. I want to move the bulkhead behind the back seat, and then re-weld it in place. I also would really like to not have anything too large securing the original area back in, so the front seats could tilt(im 6'3") and for just a little more leg room in the back.

was thinking just some gussets instead of radiused tube like the later models have. Anyone have a better idea?

well mine is boxed and not tubed, seems like you could just cut the bulkhead so that it leaves some behind on the sides above the step part and just cap it with 1x2 tubing or something..

not much of an update, but some soft tech.

so I have been agonizing over how much to stretch it. Currently its at 8", which allows a cooler and two tupperware bins to stack behind the seat with head room. It would be nice to have only 6" body with an 8" WB stretch, but then I cant have all three behind the seat, just two turned perpendicular to the rig. Also have been contemplating a dove tail and front pinch

Anyway, in trying to get to get some numbers in my head, it looks like 8" will still be WAY smaller than the bronco

...............Bronco.............SCout......... scout II
weight.........4587.............2800............
length.......183.6"............154.............166
width,,,,......79.1..............68.6............7 0
height........74.4...............67

so at 30" shorter and 11" narrower, I dont think I am gonna worry about 8" and a dovetail. Prolly will still pinch the front 3" each side though.

not much of an update, but some soft tech.

so I have been agonizing over how much to stretch it. Currently its at 8", which allows a cooler and two tupperware bins to stack behind the seat with head room. It would be nice to have only 6" body with an 8" WB stretch, but then I cant have all three behind the seat, just two turned perpendicular to the rig. Also have been contemplating a dove tail and front pinch

Anyway, in trying to get to get some numbers in my head, it looks like 8" will still be WAY smaller than the bronco

Bronco SCout scout II
weight 4587 2800............
length.......183.6"............154.............166
width,,,,......79.1..............68.6............7 0
height........74.4...............67

so at 30" shorter and 11" narrower, I dont think I am gonna worry about 8" and a dovetail. Prolly will still pinch the front 3" each side though.

I say 3" may not be worth it. Go for more. I went 6.5" on each side, and it worked out ....just my 2 cents but have fun with it.

yeah, its a lot of work, for not a lot of gain, but Im cool with that. this thing is already going to be soo small compared to what I am used to. a 13" pinch just seems drastic.

oops my bad, I went 5" on each side in the front, 6.5 in the rear, any way like I said just have fun with it, it will tell you what to do.

4" each side and i like it.I'd post a pic. but i only go one freaking side done in the last 4 months.i was able to keep the crap ass heater with out hacking anything but the fender side inlet.Nice build BTW

a few additions, albeit they are coming slow.* i spent most of my time parting out the second scout.* have the stretch section on, just need to weld it.* ended up stretching it 8".* will stretch the rear wheels back 8" and the front 4 to 6", havent decided yet.* At this point, for time and money, will probably run radius arms front and chevy 63's rear till I can afford to link the back.



stretch in place.* im running some 1.5" angle iron under the bed rails for support
http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/714722/fullsize/stretch3.jpg


with the 41's as mock up.* obviously the body body/frame need to come up some
http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/714720/fullsize/stretch1.jpg

I thought really hard abut only stretching the body 6" to get the best departure angle possible, but wanted to have enuf room for all my camping and wheeling stuff
http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/714721/fullsize/stretch2.jpg

made the front* look a little different.* Did look like this
http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/686219/fullsize/sideview.jpg

now it looks like this.* will get tube supports for the fenders and coilover mounts
http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/714725/fullsize/stretch6.jpg

still need t clean it up some.Im also gonna taper the front 6 to 10"
http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/714726/fullsize/stretch8.jpg


this is not at final height either
http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/714723/fullsize/stretch4.jpg

with the 41 again for mock up
http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/714724/fullsize/stretch5.jpg

Looks good, You can get back some departure angle by moving the fender flair. and the axle.

not much of an update. got some tub work finished for the stretch. next is the fenders. The PVC pipe is where the rear axle will go (8" back from stock). still have some grinding/smoothing to do, but its all but done.

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/726518/fullsize/stretchtub2.jpg

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/726517/fullsize/stretchtub1.jpg

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/726516/fullsize/stretchmok1.jpg

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/726515/fullsize/stretchmock6.jpg

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/726514/fullsize/stretchmock4.jpg

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/726513/fullsize/stretchmock3.jpg

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/726512/fullsize/stretchmock2.jpg

looks good , but can you add a little light?:D

nice start man!.don't be scared,cut it up!

looks good , but can you add a little light?:D

I dont get it. the garage door?

I don't get it. the garage door?

maybe my screen but its very much over lit. all washed out, but viewable. just messing with you

yeah, I always have too dark of pitcures. must be my screen, they look fine to me though

how critical is an engine crossmember at the mounts themselves? Im contemplating using the mount/cradle like brandon used on his build, but already have some nice poly mounts for my current rig. As a result, i was considering just using mounts like the one from JBG

[img]http://broncograveyard.com/images/catalog/zoom/MOTSTANDS.JPG[img]

How do I import the picture?

here is just the link

http://broncograveyard.com/images/catalog/MOTSTANDS.JPG

would just a front xmember be enough, or should I tie these in together as well?

I like this pic......................:smokin:

how critical is an engine crossmember at the mounts themselves? Im contemplating using the mount/cradle like brandon used on his build, but already have some nice poly mounts for my current rig. As a result, i was considering just using mounts like the one from JBG

[img]http://broncograveyard.com/images/catalog/zoom/MOTSTANDS.JPG[img]

How do I import the picture?

here is just the link

http://broncograveyard.com/images/catalog/MOTSTANDS.JPG

would just a front xmember be enough, or should I tie these in together as well?

your forgot the / on the

oh, wrong tag too

[IMG]http://broncograveyard.com/images/catalog/MOTSTANDS.JPG

kind of lame, but...
I hung some skins on it, and rolled the 42's up next to it just because. Just looking for some motivation and direction really.

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/754686/fullsize/dsc_0923.jpg

With some horrible paint skills, I smoothed out the fenders, cut them, and removed the rockers. The tan is obviously where the body will be, painted to fit over the original skins, so it should be a pretty close approximation.. The black represents nothing, or where the metal was removed. i plan to boatside up to the bottom of the door plates.

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/754687/fullsize/scoutimage2.jpg

mad paint skilz! Gonna be suweeet! I have some extra fenders and a hood I should have given you, a bit beat up but great for mock up etc.

thanks, i ve got two sets of front fenders nd hoods. Havent decided on stretch the front skins, so dont know if ill need them or not.

Hellz yeah! c'mon plugugly get back in the ring, it's only the 2nd round. Let's see that rear stretch finished.

Keep the pics coming!!

I see what you mean paint is tough on that pic.

I streched the front fender a few inches and ponited it down 6 degrees. Clean up the rear a bit, tried to put the boat side on and rasied the cage 6":flipoff2: LOL

Now after looking at that pic I should have just pointed the nose down a little less

Looks like a station wagon :flipoff2:

If you are not concerned with having a top on it I'd make the cage tall like that. I built my cage to fit with the top on, but it makes for short headroom. If I was going to do it over I'd add at least two inches to my cage height.

plan is to put a top on it, I have the tops to make one longer wone, but we will see where I am at in a year or 4 when I get to that part.

Craig, I bow down to your paint skills.

Heres some motivation.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=464675&stc=1&d=1252350115

The funny thing about this, is the guy with the scout pulling the commando out bought his full top from Plug Ugly. Mark

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/754686/fullsize/dsc_0923.jpg

I'll buy that for a dollar.

nothing exciting, but anyone who has done sheetmetal work knows how tedious this shit is. Both skins are 80 percent don in the back. Just waiting on a skim coat of bondo and cutting the arch for the fenders. Also started working on the top stretch. Lots of rivets and adhesive to deal with. Imtrying to use most of the roof of one because it is more straight than the other. I know, this gives no perspective on effort, but at least use your imagination on how it WILL look.

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/798921/fullsize/stretchtop3.jpg

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/798922/fullsize/stretchtop2.jpg

Still cant decide if i should cut more out of the rockers or not. The damn footwell is already so small.

I'd leave the rockers cut where you have them. You go higher you'll have to cut the doors to fit. Like where this build is going. Looking good.

so nothing exciting, but lots of time invested, mesauring, leveling, remeaswuring, welding, cutting, leveling, measuring, you get the picture. A master welder I am clearly not, so :flipoff2:


started by overbuilding the shit out of the frame rails. flat plate with holes every 6 or so inches on center *i forget, its been going on for a few months). the expectation is I will have to cut for 205 clearance, and dont want to sacrifice any strength as i play with 4/3 links, etc. I still have to weld all the factory seams, as they look like they were welded by my 4 year old.

Ran lots of crossbars to keep from warping the frame

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/832608/fullsize/img_0264.jpg

kind of hard to see, but the top piece (actually the bottom of the rail) has several small holes in it, with nuts welded onto the backside. Figured i use those holes for the belly pan and boatside mounts.

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/832609/fullsize/img_0265.jpg

I had wanted to run rear radius arms or links in the back, but just dont have the money, knowledge r time right now. i want this thing running for next spring. Im gonna use 64" chevies I have. Looking at stretching the rear axle back 8 inches to go along with the body stretch. Actually ends up with the front mount 1" forward from stock.

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/832612/fullsize/img_0268.jpg

I extended the frame with some 2x4x.188 wall rec. tube. These are the first round of inner gussets, with more bracing to come. Gained 2 and 3/8 inche clearance for rear fuel tank with changing the tube. I cut 28" off the factory horns, and added 37" of 2x4

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/834546/fullsize/pb030538.jpg

Can see how the outside of the tube comes up the stock frame about 10" or so. Can also see the rest of the frame and new front body mounts

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/834547/fullsize/pb030539.jpg

better shot of the front body mount. Built with a 2" body lift into it. i will cut the square tube flush with the outside of the frame rail once I trial fit everything. A single lower gusset and a single lateral, should be enough.

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/834548/fullsize/pb030540.jpg

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/834554/fullsize/pb030545.jpg

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/834550/fullsize/pb030542.jpg


Where the Cage radius arms mouns will end up with a 5" forward push. may bring these back another inch to end up with only 4 inches of front push.

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/834549/fullsize/pb030541.jpg


9 extra inches of frame ( I wish it was that easy:evil:) , and im still putting the rear shackle mount of the end of the axle. its 59" back from the front hanger. This is based on my current, hevier rig, so i may have to push it forward an inch or so. I have a rear 2x2x.188 rear bumper/winch mount to put on there from the current rig, so the hangers wont just be sitting out there.

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/834552/fullsize/pb030543.jpg

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/834553/fullsize/pb030544.jpg

Looking Good...

Dang Damon your 4 year old welds better than me.

It looks like this is gonna be a sweet rig when all said and done.

Dang you have been busy:smokin: I like the cross members. My frame still flexes a lot. Maybe if I could drop 2,000 pounds that would help:laughing:

why is the seam on the outside of the frame?

why is the seam on the outside of the frame?


In the rear? I was trying to make make space for a 25 gallon ford fuel tank that is 31.5 inches wide.

Craig, the crossmembers are just temporary, Ill be cutting all the factory xmembers out.

looking good dude, you are doing a lot of work and that frame is going to be so solid.

let me know when you are at the stage you can start putting the body and engine back on, i would be glad to come up and help you out for a couple days. we could probably get a lot done, or at least drink a lot of beer...

yeah, that will be great

nice fab work , looks good. Looks like you need a rotisserie for all that work.

nice fab work , looks good. Looks like you need a rotisserie for all that work.

yeah, that would be really helpful instead of the 'armstrong' shit I have going on.

That frame is beefy! You shouldn't have any problems with that. Glad to see you making some progress.

is it worth welding all the old seams? they look like crap from factory, so I figured it couldnt hurt, but is anyone having issues with it?

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/836131/fullsize/frameseam3.jpg

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/836129/fullsize/frameseam1.jpg


What about this: Since I have filled in most of the holes in the middle of the frame rails, is it worth trying to seal all the holes in the frame? Or do I need those, and prolly more in the middle, for water/rust issues?

What about this: Since I have filled in most of the holes in the middle of the frame rails, is it worth trying to seal all the holes in the frame? Or do I need those, and prolly more in the middle, for water/rust issues?

Yes, drain holes are good.

We had a work weekend in the spring & Craig drilled a hole in the Cheeses's bumper & it peed for 5 minutes.:homer:

I see a couple factory holes in the frame. Leave them!! Those are good to take measurements off of later when comparing to other peoples junk, plus you can see if your frame is still square as they make good reference marks. AAA likes to put there tie-in hooks there too, not that it will see AAA.

Also like Mike said it needs to pee or it will rust out. The cheeses bumper was only a year old and collected the water by condensation, about a 1/2 gallon, after a bit we got an oil pan to collect it. :eek:

so I take it i should put a few holes in here then?



http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/832608/fullsize/img_0264.jpg

so I take it i should put a few holes in here then?

You need at least one in each rail.

But I see one here.

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/836131/fullsize/frameseam3.jpg

and here, so your good unless those are old pic's

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/836129/fullsize/frameseam1.jpg


Edit... since you like Fordyce you could drill a 1/4" hole in the lowest point once its all built, just to be sure.

those holes there are actually on the kick ups, and are not the lowest point, so i will plan to do so.

on a side note, the frame goes back under the rig finally, time to tear the bronco apart for parts and hang the motor, anyone wanna help?

Damon. I got my hands full this 4 day with work and getting those springs under my scout. But I am down to give you a hand.

I told you I would burn those perches on for you.

I told you I would burn those perches on for you.

I know, I know but I can do it easy enough. I have been practicing my welding, and I like these little projects. Plus I am borrowing Curts plasma cutter this 4 day to hack some other junk off my rig.

Its gonna be a big bitch

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/836606/fullsize/bigbitch2.jpg

You mean a bad ass bitch!

that pic is actually about 3" over what ride height should be, but ill be taking the fenders up about 4" so the fender clearance is close, just not the frame height.

Its gonna be a big bitch

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/836606/fullsize/bigbitch2.jpg

I like the "AIR LOCKRS" :flipoff2:. Looks good

best part was the price, I got a screaming deal.

So any thoughts on the foot well in the bed area? After talking with you on Sunday ,I revisited that idea for my rig. I do think it would make a more comfortable seating arrangement.

yeah Dan, its a great idea, but is way down the line. IF I can raise the seat two inches, then I may not and use that as fuel tank/ upper link space. Im a ways out on that, and it will depend primarily on head room with the kiddie seats in the back.

thanks again for letting me check out your progress.

Will this be ready by Spring/Summer?

I hope so Damon, you need to wheel it.!:flipoff2:

honestly? no, probably not. Id really like it to be, but I just finally pulled the motor and axles out of the donor rig, and slung them over to the scout. With the two boys you met, I have limited free time. Im really hoping though.

still seems to high to me, since I want to cut the fenders about 4" up. Im running into fitment issues with radius arms/panhard and steering. This is still totally mock up, but you know how it goes, you start getting close, and just want to see it.

This is a frame height of 26.5", tire height of 40.25 (unloaded, so maybe 39.5 loaded?) and really tall to step up to at 6'3".

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/845526/fullsize/p1130580.jpg

any thoughts? Too tall? The rear is not set at ride height.

Visually, the frame height looks ok, it's the body lift.
Lower the body... Cut out the inner fenders.
Tube the engine bay.
You will have to trim the front corners, possibly cutting out the blinkers...

I just measured my frame height.. It's ball parka because The front is on jack stands....

Frame is roughly 23"-24" @ lowest, front bumper about 33"-35".

I'm on newish 37" Bfgs (true height I think).

You've scene my rig, so you know how it sits (my front left spring was bent at the rallye, so the left is lower).

if you r tires are trun to height, my frame is only an inch at best off, which would prolly settle down with engine/body weight, etc. Im 1.5" radius taller than you, which would be 25.5. So Im a n inch and a 2" body lift, whcih I think I need for the doubler set up and flat ford 205? If I can ditch the BL I will, but that requires eliminating the new body mounts and moving them down.


The other decieving factor is the "mini" boatside. I think yours and rkscouts are still normal rockers right?


is it too much front push?

The other deceiving factor is the "mini" boatside. I think yours and rkscouts are still normal rockers right?


is it too much front push?

I cut my rockers by 1/2.... the bottom of the rockers are parallel to the floor.
I think it was the pictures/deceiving....

My rocker guards are supported by 2x4s which are on top of my frame.
body is bolted to a plate off of them, so figure my tub/drivers compartment floor is 1.75"-2" above the frame rail.
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j95/mochamike/Scout/DCP_3525.jpg

Are you pinching the nose?
If not, you will have to either stretch it like you did in the rear (do you have another Scout?), or trim it.
Look back a page in your build of the 80 pulling the truck out of the water.
Look at the front left trim.

I've been seriously considering cutting the bottom of that front fenders out & making a blinker mount on top of the bumper.

EDIT: Yes, personally, I think you stretched it too far (but that's just me).
I wheel with a lot of Toyota guys (short & long bed guys). Overall, I think my wheelbase is better.
Sure, there are some things they get over a bit easier than me, but it's like a 1:3 or 1:4 ratio (they have 3 or 4 issues on other obstacles for my 1).
Either that, or I just pick better lines.:grinpimp:

Ill pinch and cut at this point.

What size tire are your toy buddies on? Ive been wheeling 42's with 110" wb for years. This will be 113, so not a huge difference. I rarely have an issue making an obstacle. A lot of it is konwing your rig (this will be new), and the other part is just paying attention to your lines.

35-37s.

But some of the Jeep guys use logs...
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j95/mochamike/Wheeling/BarrettLake0910/P1000135.jpg

I don't envy your challenge.
I've noticed that once you get over 39.5s, you pretty much end up in buggy territory.... (IE building a frame & buggy, suspension, then skins).

like i said, ive been wheeling 42's for a few years on a much bigger rig, so this thing does feel very 'buggy' like.

does this help put a perspective on it at all? I know its a little too close, and the camera angle is too low......

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/845540/fullsize/p1130001.jpg

if you r tires are trun to height, my frame is only an inch at best off, which would prolly settle down with engine/body weight, etc. Im 1.5" radius taller than you, which would be 25.5. So Im a n inch and a 2" body lift, whcih I think I need for the doubler set up and flat ford 205? If I can ditch the BL I will, but that requires eliminating the new body mounts and moving them down.


The other decieving factor is the "mini" boatside. I think yours and rkscouts are still normal rockers right?


is it too much front push?

Hey Damon, I'll try and get some pics for you this weekend. My rockers are trimmed even with the bottom of the floor. I think I took out 3"s from the bottom if I remember right. Here's some older pics I had. First was on leaves, second, linked. Same frame height.

frames at 25.25 now (the rear is an inch higher, but the springs will flatten once I put a floor, fuel tank, cage etc, so I think its about right. Roof seems to be at 84" or really close, might actually fit into the garage now.

https://www.supermotors.net/getfile/845697/fullsize/p1150006.jpg

https://www.supermotors.net/getfile/845698/fullsize/p1150009.jpg

Working on motor mounts. I had the poly motor mounts from a bronco vendor, figured this would be an easy way to mount it to the frame, and then run a hoop underneath, prolly also made of square.

https://www.supermotors.net/getfile/845700/fullsize/motormount1.jpg

https://www.supermotors.net/getfile/845701/fullsize/motor-mount.jpg

working on putting the motor in. This is the first time I have done abuild of this magnitude. Im getting a little overwhelmed. I know I want it back as far as possible, and low as possible, but what sacrifices are necessary? The crank is at 35" in these pics, and Im changing headers to allow me to push it back some. Id rather not cut the fire wall, but I may have to.

https://www.supermotors.net/getfile/846690/fullsize/img_0280.jpg

https://www.supermotors.net/getfile/846691/fullsize/img_0281.jpg

WOW looks good. Those are some nice tight headers, but you have some that drop even more before the fire wall. :smokin:

35" crank, humm I guess I don't remember what mine is at. Scout dude had a post on it a few years back if you want to see what everyone is running.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=634170&highlight=crank

The motor looks really low, is the tranny pan lower than the frame rails?

My motor mounts are parallel with the bottom of the frame. (see pix)

However, my engine is stuffed way back in there, further than yours can be. This is because I have Rams Head headers... With your headers it will be more forward...

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j95/mochamike/Scout/IMG_3873.jpg

Here are all the photos of my work...
http://s78.photobucket.com/albums/j95/mochamike/Scout/

I have a manual, so no pan. The pto points are just below the rame, but the rest of the tranny is well above the bottom of the frame. I wanted to keep it as low as posible, but will likely raise it another inch or so. Was thinking I would try and mount the square tube just like yours mike, but didnt want to go to high.

VERY cool build.


I vote push that motor back as far as you can. Dont be afraid to cut the firewall. Its easy to patch

im not afraid of the metal work, more so of losing the foot room and getting "hot" foot. Im 6'3" and that foot well is TINY compared to my last fullsize rig.

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/25-Inch-Corvette-Style-Exhaust-Manifolds,9133.html

These would allow you to move it back another 2-6".
However to install/remove them you'd have to slide them in w/bolts inside then tighten them down.
Your dizzy would also hit the heater vent if you were to try & remove it (it fits under fine, just need to remove the vent if you want to pull the Dizzy).

Just took some pix....

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j95/mochamike/Scout/IMG_4535.jpg
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j95/mochamike/Scout/IMG_4533.jpg

Ive got a ford motor, no dizzy hitting anything

Looking good Damon; You have tons under you so don't be afraid to raise the C/G a bit. Get that flat skid plate.

got some different headers, ford small block guys take not. These fit much better. was able to pull the motor up and back, I think this is where I will stab it. Crank bolt appears to be at 35 at ride height, top tranny bolt is about 41

old header clearance, this was actually touching

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/847348/fullsize/old-header.jpg

new header clearance didnt move the motor at all
http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/847347/fullsize/newheaderclearance.jpg

header comparo. These are summit cheapo headers on the bottom, smog leagal for the year with block hugger headers on top, non smog.

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/847350/fullsize/headercomparo.jpg


link to headers, will work on 351 or 302
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-G9063?autofilter=1&part=SUM-G9063&N=700+115&autoview=sku

new height
http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/847345/fullsize/motorheight.jpg

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/847349/fullsize/passnewheaders.jpg

old height. its not much higher, but further back by 2" or so

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/846690/fullsize/img_0280.jpg

Don't forget to leave a bit of room for insulation.

A lot of newer trucks have a foil and fiberglass shield which helps reflect heat and insulate the floor pan from transmission and engine heat. Would be nice to fit one of those in there.

Im gonna coat the headers, coat both sides of the fireway with spary on insulation (lizard skin), make heat shields along the exhaust, and "rhino" line it. If its still too hot, Ill do some sort of other shield.

motor is mounted. needs finish welding and some gussets. Ill have to trim the pass footwell just a little bit.

https://www.supermotors.net/getfile/847694/fullsize/img_0294.jpg

drivers side will have no cutting

https://www.supermotors.net/getfile/847695/fullsize/img_0295.jpg

motor is offset 1 7/8

https://www.supermotors.net/getfile/847696/fullsize/img_0296.jpg

https://www.supermotors.net/getfile/847697/fullsize/img_0297.jpg

https://www.supermotors.net/getfile/847699/fullsize/img_0298.jpg

I figured cut once, fill later

https://www.supermotors.net/getfile/847700/fullsize/img_0299.jpg

https://www.supermotors.net/getfile/847701/fullsize/img_0300.jpg

Very nice!

Going with a driver side drop really does reduce the amount of firewall cutting that's necessary.

How long do you expect your rear drive shaft is going to be? Is your transfer case level with the bottom of the frame? I ask as I have a NP241C sitting in my Scout 80 right now that I'm finalizing the position for. It looks like my rear drive shaft will be just a little longer than yours so I'm curious how your driveline angles are going to work out.

You also mentioned that you sourced your motor mounts from a Bronco vendor. I would appreciate it if you can say who and provide a part number.

Thanks

Pete

the rear shaft is gonna be about 28 to 29 inches with a double cardan rear shaft. The front shaft is gonna be at 48 or so, I may look at doing an intermediate shaft????????

Belly pan is totally smooth, 205 is above the rails.


motor mounts can be had from Toms Bronco parts, Driven Auto or Jeffs Bronco graveyard.

That does look a lot better with the new headers

top tranny bolt is at 44", belly 24.5, crank at 35. Should be pretty stable.

Looks good , keep up the work and the pics.

:beer:
Glad to see you making some more progress.

got another day in the man cave, worked on tranny mounts. Motor is tilted back about 3.8 degrees, I think factory is 5.0, so should be fine.

https://www.supermotors.net/getfile/849418/fullsize/trannymount.jpg

https://www.supermotors.net/getfile/849419/fullsize/trannymount2.jpg

a little under an inch clearance for the 205 to the bottom of the frame

https://www.supermotors.net/getfile/849420/fullsize/205clearance.jpg

https://www.supermotors.net/getfile/849421/fullsize/205clearance2.jpg

the weight of the motor brought the back down some, frame is now just under 25"
https://www.supermotors.net/getfile/849417/fullsize/newrideheight.jpg

duplicate pics from anotherthread, just wanted to add these to the build thread

heres what I cam up with

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/851348/fullsize/img_0320.jpg

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/851349/fullsize/img_0321.jpg

I hadto drillout the clutch mc a 1/16th to fit the wilwood m/c

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/851350/fullsize/img_0322.jpg

Nice build!

Thanks for the reservoir. Glad I could help out with some build money.

thanks Casey. It did help, as a matter of fact.

Looking good... I see you have some rust, I think it was a factory option.:flipoff2:

This is gonna be a sick as rig. Frame plates are :smokin:.

how would you guys flange this cradle to make it removeable? Or would you make it removeable? I would like to be able to drop the oil pan without lifting the motor.

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/855796/fullsize/enginecradle.jpg

awesome MSPaint skillz

Like BeefCakeScout ,But I think I would use two bolts on each side.

It if was a bit wider, maybe you could wiggle the pan out. Not sure where your links are going. The headers are going to be right there too. Plates on each side bolted in, or just one big bolt down the middle?

Or a combination of the two. Weld some flat bar to craddle so it overlaps the motor mount This would prevent it from twisting. The big bolt straight down will not let it spread. Trying to think of the forces on that cross member:homer:

I'm too slow.. I like beef cake idea too, easy and pie :) It really boils down to access and it hard to see the other side.

Like BeefCakeScout ,But I think I would use two bolts on each side.

what he said

As shown, with or without the cradle, all the forces will try to rip the mount (horizontal square tube) from the vertical inner frame wall.

Perhaps forget the cradle and reinforce/triangulate the mounts instead?

Note, orange is drawn in 2d, but intended in 3d, say about 6" front to back?.

Orange "captures" the frame on three sides using a short plate on the outside, a tall plate on the inside, and a flat plate on top to tie the two together; plus 2 or 3 plate triangles (shown striped) as gussets. Essentially you're making the frame stronger and taller at the engine mount area.

Basically, you're almost double boxing the frame at the mount, while vertically entending and gusseting the inner wall.

Red is drawn 2d and intended as 2d: Plate triangles welded to the front and rear faces of the existing horizontal square tubing.

Its important to make the vertical orange plates extend above and below the existing frame rail. You might box the rail entirely and add a bottom orange plate, too. Make the side plates too short and they'll want to punch through the existing frame rail side. You want to instead press evenly along the whole surface of the frame rail side, especially the 90 degree bends at the top and bottom.


If you still want to stiffen from frame-rail to frame-rail, then add some sort of strut-tower-to-strut-tower bridge type stiffener (like the ricers use) over the top of the engine: Shown in blue with hex = bolt heads for cross-engine-piece removal.

I have seen this done with roll cage tubing using a tubing bender instead of square tubing and a band-saw Then make the removable joints flanged and sleeved (like header/collector flanges) for easy crossover tube removal.

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c214/monkeyplasm/img_0296.jpg

ILl gusset the the engine mounts for sure, and coil over hoops will go just forward on the enging mounts, which will be tied to the tube fenders and cross over the engine. Im just trying to figure a good way to mount he cradle.

The oil pump sticks pretty far down, its hard to get the pan off without a lot of clearance

ILl gusset the the engine mounts for sure, and coil over hoops will go just forward on the enging mounts, which will be tied to the tube fenders and cross over the engine. Im just trying to figure a good way to mount he cradle.


Given the quoted text above (engine mounts reinforced and frame rails tied together), then why use a cradle at all? Seems like it would be in the way and totally redundant. Maybe I'm just being :homer::homer: about it?

I don't know. I thought adding a cradle would make the mounts super bomber and eliminate a lot of the fframe flex. most factory rigs have a sort of cradle. Now, i know lots of the suspension stuff hangs off it too, but ????

I don't have a cradle in mine. I do still have the factory crossmember under the radiator though. I would try and wrap it around the top of the frame.

Update?

nothing accomplished. Decided to scrap the rear leaf springs, and have been working on a 4 link with coils.

Started working on my truss todaytoday. Not very fancy, made from 2x4x.25. Its still a little long, and I need to figure a good way to tie it into the housing.

https://www.supermotors.net/getfile/863762/fullsize/p4210179.jpg

Need to add some material to my frame, figured I would use some 3/16 2x4 nd incorporate the body mount into it. This will be the cut line.

https://www.supermotors.net/getfile/863763/fullsize/p4210180.jpg

https://www.supermotors.net/getfile/863764/fullsize/p4210181.jpg

Looking good. I tied my truss into the diff cover. What coils are you going to run?

And here's how I did mine...

http://www.binderplanet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=18227&d=1151802096

This is a Ruffstuff diff cover and the bolts go all the way through the truss.

early bronco coils, 3.5" lift progressive rates with Duff shorty upper buckets.

Buck, I was looking for pics of yours, but couldnt find the thread. Where did you put your upper link mounts at the frame?

[QUOTE=plug ugly;12808951]early bronco coils, 3.5" lift progressive rates with Duff shorty upper buckets.

Buck, I was looking for pics of yours, but couldnt find the thread. Where did you put your upper link mounts at the frame?[/QUOTE




He had pics in my thread of his, looked through my thread, but it's only a red x now. Here's how I tied my diff into the truss.

The only issue I am having is that to get the pinion pointed in the right direction, the diff cover is a good few inches back from the truss. Im on duty for af ew days, so my head is swimming with ideas. Id like to find someone that can weld a web in there, along the top of the housing. Sterlings have been known to spin tubes. I dont think I would be comfortable mig'ing the web. Ive been told to use a nickle rod, but thats beyond my ability.

What's the problem with rolling the truss back so it's even with the diff cover?

I welded angle iron onto my truss.
On the dif cover, I ran 1/4" plate over the angle....

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j95/mochamike/Scout/IMG_0907.jpg

What's the problem with rolling the truss back so it's even with the diff cover?

wont sit flat

Buck, I was looking for pics of yours, but couldnt find the thread. Where did you put your upper link mounts at the frame?

Shhhhhh...

http://www.binderplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52069&highlight=link

http://www.binderplanet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=17508&d=1149027607

wont sit flat

Compound angles. Easy for me to say cut and reweld. :D

can you make something like this, looks a lot like what Mike posted

http://ballisticfabrication.3dcartstores.com/assets/images/14bolttrussa.JPG

Edit... why not use some Ni rod and weld to the housing?

Wish I had that piece that attaches to the dif cover when I made mine.:homer:

This is what I built with the diff cover helping out a little, I built the diff cover too.
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff395/scouttanks/DSCF0726.jpg

One of the reasons I like this vintage scout is (aside from being pre-smog) the super shitty fabber friendly interior

You should see mine......

Edit... why not use some Ni rod and weld to the housing?

thats what I was thinking. A single web welded to the housing. I just dont know how to stick weld.

I like the diff cover idea, but it would require lots of fill pieces at off angles to fit right and I am looking for a cleaner solution.

that 60 looks nice Scouttanks

Thanks, its not to hard to do off angles but it dose take time fitting it. The rear is a dana 70U BTW.

You don't need to know how to stick weld with the NI rod. It is kinda like soldering. Just pre heat, cool very slow and peen the snot out of it.

whats peen?

whats peen?

Chip the slag off..... As in ball-peen hammer.

whats peen?

Peen, as in relive the stress of the weld. Use a slag hammer to put indentations into the weld and this action will help to relive the heat and cool cycle of the weld.

Plug,

Any updates? I love the build and been following it, just curious.

no, Ive been working a lot of OT, and just got back from taking the boys to Disneyland. I should get some "me" time in the coming weeks.

the body is off, Im working on the rear 4 link, and waiting to take the body to my cousins powdercoating shop to sand blast the thing.

Thanks for the interest

Sorry plug but what hydroboost did you go with? Was it from an astro van if I recall? I'm getting ready to put a boost in my rig just trying to sort out some details. Thanks

I know you might have said, but the bronco gas tank will not fit?

The 800/80 frame is like an 1" wider then the Scout II gas tank

not in stock form. The bronco tank is 31.5 by 21 by 15.5. The intent was to use a bronco tank thats 25 gallons, and only 13" tall as opposed tot he 33 gallon tank I have. When I stretched the rear frame, I did so with 2x4 to make it 2" wider, and allow the bronco tank to fit. I was going to run leaves, and planned on using the bronco tank. Changing to the rear 4 link, Im not sure I will have the clearance AND be able to run a rear winch as planned. So the verdict is still out at this point. I have a scout II tank, but would like more gallonage 9at least 25) so I may look at building my own, just not sure I have the fab skills to make a good one.

My hydroboost is a a chevy unit, but from VANCO. Not sure how it differs from an astro van unit. I 'think' some of the astros are 2 bolts instead of 4, but cant say for sure.

My bro gave me a nice big piece of 1/8 aluminum diamond plate that I could use to make a tank. You really need to make a cardboard / wood mock up tank, so you know just how to cut the metal. Plus I'm running F.I, so for me buying a weld in sump would make that easier. If you decide to build a tank and need it welded let me know, I'm pretty good with the TIG welder.
I like the welding part.:D

The 33 gal bronco tank is super cheap, just over a C note

Thanks plug, I don't think vanco is around anymore after what happened with brandon???? I'll just be hitting the pnp soon. Anyways, I take it you wanna mount the tank between the frame rails. I'm just curious because I was going to mount a twenty gallon in the bed and build a shelf above it similar to mocha mikes. Just wanna hear your reasoning. Thanks.

not in stock form. The bronco tank is 31.5 by 21 by 15.5. The intent was to use a bronco tank thats 25 gallons, and only 13" tall as opposed tot he 33 gallon tank I have. When I stretched the rear frame, I did so with 2x4 to make it 2" wider, and allow the bronco tank to fit. I was going to run leaves, and planned on using the bronco tank. Changing to the rear 4 link, Im not sure I will have the clearance AND be able to run a rear winch as planned. So the verdict is still out at this point. I have a scout II tank, but would like more gallonage 9at least 25) so I may look at building my own, just not sure I have the fab skills to make a good one.

My hydroboost is a a chevy unit, but from VANCO. Not sure how it differs from an astro van unit. I 'think' some of the astros are 2 bolts instead of 4, but cant say for sure.

My vote is build your own.I built mine and it works well.Kind of wish it was a little smaller (29 gal )and I had some clearance problems at the start but Im happy with it.I think there are a couple of pics in my build.You can do it!!!

Check out Scout Dude's (Joel) build thread for tank ideas...

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12239978&postcount=35

Vanco is still in business, I have spoken with the recently.

Craig, thanks for the offer, I might take you up on that.

Id like to build my own for sure so I can run an intake "ford" pump to run my FI also. Just have to look at teh cost comparison basis, and fitment when everything is in as far as suspensions etc. I figured a nice "dog leg" tank would work, but with the 4 link and lower lift height, it may get tight. I dont want to sacrifice much, if any, floor space.

Thanks plug, I don't think vanco is around anymore after what happened with brandon????

Alive and well, that were I got mine http://www.vancopbs.com/
He answered the ph eveytime I called.

Alright thanks just didn't know what was up after reading Brandon's thread over the hydroboost. Plug, I also vote build your own by the looks of it you have the fab skills :smokin:. Much more options you can work with.

so i had about 4 hours this afternoon, and have to work all weekend. here is a few pics of shtuff I have been tinkering with here and there.

A full day or more was spent chipping this tarry crap off. It came off easy enuf with a harbor freight air chisel.

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/870764/fullsize/innerscraped.jpg

th white crap, seam sealer I imagine, is a PITA to get off. I used an air hammer with as flat a blade as i had. It still sucked.
http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/870762/fullsize/dfloorscraped.jpg

here is the pass side, which I plan to cut and replace for extra leg room for the wife/kids.
Luckily the factory heat shield kept too much "glue" off the bottom, even though I am leaving it on this side till I cut it out.

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/870766/fullsize/passscraped.jpg


Ended up with 4 piles, all bigger than this
http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/870768/fullsize/scrapedpile.jpg

The tub is ready for sand blasting, sheet metal work.new firewall and floors, and bed liner/insulation


Also been working a little more on the rear links

I needed to raise the upper links as mentioned before. I plasma'd the bulk off, and the neighbor owns a machine shop with a nice 6" belt sander. That sander helped A LOT. I plan to cut on the yellow line to clear the body. The piece on top is the middle factory body mount, which I will weld back onto the body, and use this piece as a upper link mount and body mount. Its cut from 3x5x3/16

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/870761/fullsize/framepiece.jpg

still just mocking and punching numbers through the calculator
http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/870758/fullsize/upper.jpg

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/870759/fullsize/upper2.jpg

Glad to see some more progress :beer:

Who's link brackets are you using? That's a lot of adjustability.

ruff stuff

ruff stuff

I thought so, Dan makes good stuff :grinpimp:

yes he does.


Does anyone know a good set of rear 4 link numbers to shoot for? Ive read the threads, but never really seen a good set of numbers to shoot for.

Right now, Im at
87 AS (can go higher, but not lower)
29.6 roll center
.5 degree roll steer
5 degrees piinion change through stuff to droop.

Im thinking Im good, but do I want to be able to adjust MORE AS in?

change the truss a bit. Gives me some more welding area along the inside part. Nothing exciting, but as you guys know, this shit takes a lot of trail and cutting.

https://www.supermotors.net/getfile/871575/fullsize/p6010064.jpg

OH, and heres the link numbers im looking at.

https://www.supermotors.net/getfile/871576/fullsize/screen-shot-20110601-at-8.14.28-pm.jpg

minor progress in the rear link set up. Most things are tacked in place, and I think final. Still waiting for someone to tell me that my numbers look good.:D

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/876260/fullsize/p7010074.jpg

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/876259/fullsize/p7010073.jpg

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/876258/fullsize/p7010072.jpg

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/876257/fullsize/p7010071.jpg

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/876256/fullsize/p7010070.jpg

I can not figure out how to make these damn screen shots bigger.

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/876281/fullsize/finalstuff.jpg

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/876332/fullsize/finalstatic.jpg

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/876331/fullsize/finaldroop.jpg

Looks great Damon. Hurry up and get this thing done. One quick question though. How come you didnt move the lower front links in a little on the crossmember to give more traingulation? It looks like you already have a fair amount, but if you have room to have more would it be benificial?

it increase the understeer quite a bit, and I was trying to keep it as close to 1 degree as possible.

IMHO, this is your most important bracket

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/876260/fullsize/p7010074.jpg

You have three holes for an adjustment of AS and I would expect a noticable difference in handleing between each of the three holes. You're triangulation looks similar, likely a little more than mine and I'm very happy.

When you drive it around, let it cycle into place and change the frame end of the upper links until it gives you the best (compromise) charactistics.

Woohoo, start welding!

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/870759/fullsize/upper2.jpg

actually I have 5.:flipoff2: I can change the AS quite a bit.

Buck, do you know what kind of rear steer you are working with?

actually I have 5.:flipoff2: I can change the AS quite a bit.

Buck, do you know what kind of rear steer you are working with?

No, I don't remember, but I know that is one of the elements of changing the frame end upper mounts,

My old eyes cant read your screen numbers for shit...

What are you upper and lower link lengths?
Can you move your frame end upper link mounts forward on that frame extension? It looks like it would allow you to run longer uppers, closer to the same length as the lowers. I "think" :homer: that would do a couple of things, allow for the links to move in more similar arcs for less binding, allow for adjustment of AS on the lower end with less rear steer.

Last time I tweaked mine, I decided I had the least rear steer in the middle hole for the upper frame mount. I think this was an AS around 50 and the higher hole calculated near 100 AS and as I recall the feeling was the rear end would try to push through a corner, which I took as rear steer.

Also, my uppers and lowers are nearly the same length about 24" and 29" OAL. All 4 are made identical and the 5th one is stored as a spare in the rig. If I ever needed a spare, I can replace any of the links with the same spare.

So,

If you are still in the tweaking and tacking stage, try looking at longer uppers and moving the frame end upper link mound forward to equalize the link length a bit.

If you are past the tack stage... Run that bitch! :D

I did play around with the uppers, and found it really just affected the pinion angle more than anything. Longer links do increase the AS a little, but only a few percentage points.

AS 56%
Roll Center 29
-1 understeer

I did play around with the uppers, and found it really just affected the pinion angle more than anything. Longer links do increase the AS a little, but only a few percentage points.

AS 56%
Roll Center 29
-1 understeer

What do you mean it affects pinion angle? It affects the roataion of the pinion as the suspension cycles from bump to droop, or are you talking about Static pinion angle?

Are your axle mounts and truss fully welded? I'm assuming you're running a CV Drive shaft.

yes, pinion angle through the travel cycle.

Nothing at this point is fully welded. I 'may' ditch the body lift, and increase lift height by an inch or so to get more crank to axle clearance in the front. IF I do that, I need to bring my lower frame mounts closer together to keep a negative roll axis to keep understeer instead of oversteer.


sooo, I have another questions too. I have and was planning to use some FOA coilovers in the front. With the radius arms I have, it would be udersimple to just throw some early bronco coils on the front of this thing, and I have the room for it. Is it really worth the jump to c/o's on a street(10%) and trail(90%) rig? I just worry that IF there is a problem with the c/o, the front end is toast (bent shaft, etc) as opposed to just pulling off a damaged shock. Im shooting for ultra realiability so I can take my 3 and 5 year old along on trips.

I wish I had my new tranny in the rig and more hours on the trail to tell you. You'll get tired hearing "why did you put a Scout on a Bronco frame?" with the coils :flipoff2:

Coilovers are 10+ on the Cool-O-meter...:smokin:

I understand trying to get it right the first time but you may be splitting hairs on the -1 under-steer. My rig is close to yours in weight and height, has the same rear roll center within a 1/2" and similar axles. I have 2 degrees of over-steer and apparently to dumb to feel it.:homer: I drive to most trails and back on bias 39.5's without complications. My antisquat is adjustable between 78-92-108. I run 92% and it is very predictable and neither squats or jacks. You have built a lot of adjust ability and I wouldn't hesitate to run the numbers you have. And I wouldn't hesitate to run coils on the front. Coilovers take up less real estate and are easier to mount and perhaps better in the long run but quality shocks and coils can get it done also. I'd ditch the radius arms and run a three link in the front. I gotta laugh I met you three to four years ago and we talked briefly about links and you were happy to have leafs on your Bronco because you thought links were to complicated. Ohh how the times change.:DMark

I understand trying to get it right the first time but you may be splitting hairs on the -1 under-steer. My rig is close to yours in weight and height, has the same rear roll center within a 1/2" and similar axles. I have 2 degrees of over-steer and apparently to dumb to feel it.:homer: I drive to most trails and back on bias 39.5's without complications. My antisquat is adjustable between 78-92-108. I run 92% and it is very predictable and neither squats or jacks. You have built a lot of adjust ability and I wouldn't hesitate to run the numbers you have.

x2

yeah, Im a dumbass. I think way too much for not being very smart.

I did like the leaves, hung them on the back, and reaized, they were just going to hang too far out there. Coulda gone to a shorter leaf, but then the money spent for a good working leaf pack vs. a link, and it just ended up here.

thanks for the feedback on the links, good to know.

Im seriously thinking front 3 link, but those radius arms work really well, are simple, and really negate the need for a sway bar, which I like. They are too long (46" from axle center line), and at a 24.5" frame height, I need to clearance the frame for up travel at the arms. The only downside to a 3 link is the front axle, 88 kingpin 60. I either need to learn to weld to the cast center section, pay someone to do it, or cut part of the housing back to make room for the link mount on the drivers side.

Where did we meet?

Well your not a dumbass for asking questions. Welding cast is nowhere near as hard as it is made out to be my Dodge front shares the lower link mount with the tube and the truss and spring bucket are welded to the cast. All using a mig welder. I was thinking about the 3 link while reading that you were concerned about the pinion angle in the rear during suspension cycling. :D Some would say that's why they make u-joints, I never liked the lack of anti-dive they had on braking. We met at your storage, when my buddy Jeff bought your hardtop. Mark

oh yeah, thats been a while. Hows he doing?

He wheels the crap out of it. pic from last year on the Rubicon, we went 2 weeks ago and will go back this Friday. Mark

so I want to raise and extend the front frame. Is there a reason I can not just use some 2x4 on top of my frame like the below pictures? Of course the pieces I would use would be longer.

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/876832/fullsize/p7060104.jpg

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/876831/fullsize/p7060103.jpg

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/876830/fullsize/p7060102.jpg

Stacked frames were cool on the '80...along with mullets and triple chromed out Smittybilt roll bars and lots of shocks. I think you have issues if you just stack it and weld it in a few places, or are you going to fish plate and Z it and remove the original frame?

Borderline booty fab body lift IMHO...

By the time you get done plating and fabbing on the original frame, you coulda built a new one from scratch :flipoff2:

are you going to fish plate and Z it and remove the original frame?:

this would be the plan

this would be the plan

Well...then based on your previous frame work, Rock on:grinpimp:

Too bad you can't chop the existing frame, move it up, plate the connection and then work the connection into your lower link mount. I have some 3x3x .188 if you want to stay closer to the original frame size. Mark

the 2x4 actually helps bring the frame, steering box, and upper c/o mount in some for better clearance. Im just not sure about the strength issue of having a welded seem on top of the old frame and bottom of the new with just a few fish plates here and there.

the 2x4 actually helps bring the frame, steering box, and upper c/o mount in some for better clearance. Im just not sure about the strength issue of having a welded seem on top of the old frame and bottom of the new with just a few fish plates here and there.

If you want to add strength, after you have plated the side of the frame, then go over the top and bottom with some flat bar. This will add a huge amount of strength to the side to side even just some 1/8" would be fine.

thanks for the tip

Im running the 4 link through its paces. The rear shaft is binding at 4" drop at the CV, which means I ll have to limit strap it there. Is 4" at the pumpking adequate? Really, I should limit it to 3.5 to be safe.

Of course, the other less desirable option is to drop the rear tcase........

Can you change your pinion angle to help with the binding? I don't have any binding through full travel of my rear axle.

Can you change your pinion angle to help with the binding? I don't have any binding through full travel of my rear axle.

Go back and look at the photos in post 170. It looks like he already did that.

I've been watching this as his transfer case sits high to keep a flat belly and was wondering how it would work out.

Well I would get ahold of Tom Woods or Jessie here on Pirate and see about a better drive shaft, I would not limit travel until I had explored all my options.

well its short too, like 27", and the motor sits pretty flat. I 'think' factory is 5 degree, and I was at like 3. I raised the motor to 5 degrees, and it drops the tcase output by an inch, which should help, I just need to recheck and see what 1" equates to for drop.

I spoke to Jess, the only next option aside from moving things around is the 42 degree cv, which apparently is not very streetable. I like to drive to the local trails, so not really an option

Damon I have the 42* drive shaft and it is fine on the street. You have to grease it frequently (maybe every few hundred miles) and make sure the inner boots on the CV stay in place but it does fine on the road, and isnt all that much maintenance.

interesting. That came straight from Jess at HAD

I have no doubt that it did. He built the drivelines on my truck and thus far I havent had any issues with the limited street time my Scout gets. Its not ideal for the street but so neither is big tires, soft springs, body roll, ect. ect. I know you know way more than I ever will but if your building a wheeler you might as well get all the travel you can get.

a few more link pics.

I ended up lowering the tcase and raising the motor, soIm at 5 degrees lean back now. I get 5" of droop at the pinion. Im just gonna live with it.

Im also gonna ditch the radius arms and 3 link the front.

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/878977/fullsize/topview.jpg

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/878973/fullsize/reardroop.jpg

still need to cut the factory rear crossmember out, as the links hit. Was gonna wait till the coils were on to see how much up travel I will actually get though

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/878976/fullsize/rearstuff2.jpg

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/878975/fullsize/rearstuff.jpg

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/878974/fullsize/rearflex.jpg

well, christmas came early. The wife took the boys to oregon for 10 days, and I actually got two 3 day spats of working in the garage without interuption......so 72 plus man hours later i have accomplished the following.

stripped the 60 of all the radius arm wedges,built a truss, cut a web (not pictured), tacked all brackets aside from the track bar and hydro assist, built a new upper link mount, etc, etc.



Upper link mount, I still need to weld the end and gring smooth, and then make an inner bracket to put it into 'double' shear.

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/881745/fullsize/dscf0001.jpg

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/881746/fullsize/dscf0002.jpg

upper link mount and gusset to the top of the housing
http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/881747/fullsize/dscf0003.jpg

1.75 188 wall truss, slightly angled down for clearance
http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/881748/fullsize/dscf0005.jpg

finger worth of clearance at ride height
http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/881749/fullsize/dscf0006.jpg



new middle body mount
http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/881751/fullsize/dscf0009.jpg

rear mounts.
http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/881752/fullsize/dscf0010.jpg

lowered the body down 1". The body is twisted up pretty bad, and the doors wont align, so that will require some work. The sill plates are at 33.5" now with a 24.5" belly height. Should be 6" up travel front. Oh, I also pulled the front stretch back 2" to a total of 4 front and 8 rear.

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/881768/fullsize/dscf0024.jpg

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/881767/fullsize/dscf0023.jpg

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/881760/fullsize/dscf0019.jpg

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/881758/fullsize/dscf0017.jpg

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/881754/fullsize/dscf0012.jpg

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/881757/fullsize/dscf0015.jpg

can someone tell me,

is the driver/pass floor level with the ground, or is the A pillar at a slight upward angle?

Looks good Damon, you made a ton of progress.

Looking great!! :smokin: Question???? What are the short tubes on the front lowers for?

it was scrap tub I cut from an old cage. just mock up links

your going to need a big white star on the door when all done:smokin:

whats the white star for?

Looking good man. Take advantage of the shop pass.:D keep up the good work.

Looks like flexing the front 3 link gives me what I need. Still lots of stuff on both sides, the lowers are hitting the old leaf mounts. Pinion angle appears pretty good through travel also, so its time to start burning things on for final.


http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/882712/fullsize/p8160300.jpg

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/882721/fullsize/p8160304.jpg

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/882726/fullsize/p8160303.jpg

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/882718/fullsize/p8160302.jpg

Looking good. Have you decided what your doing for the steering yet?

not yet, its looking to be VERY tight for track bar to drag link, but 1/8th clearance is 1/8the clearance, sooo, this may lend itself to full hydro

Looks a whole lot better than the radius arms. I think a box like a SII will work with your current set up. I personally don't like the long sector shafts on a SII box but if you are are using assist, it might be okay. Did you decide to burn the front mounts on yourself after all?

no, I dont trust my welding for the cast and dont have a torch to heat it up anyway.

I was gonna look at late 70's ford bronco box too. Forward swing, outside frame mount

soooooo, I am going to have a small rub area I need to cut out of the floor. Basically 2" up from the corner, and 4.5 down from the corner as seen here.

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/892950/fullsize/frontclearance.jpg


My thought was to cut a small (6x20) rectangular hole across the floor area there, bend tabs all the way around and fill it with clear lexan. Basicall it would be below the pedals, right at the front axle from the drivers seat. I have to make the cut, and I have to fill the hole, its just a question of WHAT i fill it with.

anyone have experiene with lexan? how would it do with the heat from the headers which will be near by?

If I recall Lexan has a mounting point of 220 degrees. Its very strong and nearly shatter resistant depending on the thickness. Call or text me if you have any questions. My buddy developed lexan diff, and valve covers like 10 years ago.

lexan valve covers?

links built already? I'd be stretching that front another 3":D Mark

i had it 2" further forward, but that put me at near 115". i just didnt want it 'that' long.

lexan valve covers?

Yep he sold the patent to the company that owned hooker headers I believe. I had the first diff cover they ever made on my ford. I had it on there for 5 years until I sold it with no issues.

Move that axle and be proud of 115" :D just say n

I could TIG weld the links longer. Cut / sleeve / weld . I took that TIG pipe welding class at ARC. They had us welding 1/4 and 3/8 walled 4" pipe in all positions. But they had a nice beveling machine too

well, this is a lousy update, for no other reason than to try and motivate myself.

I deliberated over how to do the 'boatsides', and finally decided on this. I am not ready for a buggy yet, and want to be able to drive to the trails, bomob through snow/water, etc and not get soaking. This was really the only way without major floor changes, that I could mount the cage, and protect the tie ins. SOOOO, it will look like this with 4 lower tie ins like the two pictured below.

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/900360/fullsize/pc160380.jpg

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/900355/fullsize/pc160375.jpg

here is the pass flor board to go in, have a drivers just like it
http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/900357/fullsize/pc160377.jpg

and some bling
http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/900358/fullsize/pc160378.jpg

Damn you :flipoff2:


This is why I will probably never finish what I am doing now :D.

That looks sweet............ Keep it up :smokin:

Looks good Damon, but what is that orange crap in the third pic. Just get rid of that, no I will just come and take it away so it's out of the area. :D I ment 4th pic.

whats the white star for?
:flipoff2:
640379

Floor pans and rockers/boat side look good, don't forget to add a few strategic drain holes in your floor pans. I didn't, and after a recent rain storm. I had 4" of water sloshing around until I drilled a few drain holes. :laughing: The plus side is that means the POR-15 and Al's Liner sealed it up well:D

I just stole your boat/rocker sides...Thanks!!!

you have to notch the floors just a bit, unless you go with something smaller han 2" square. About an inch up the rocker and 3" in the floor.

you have to notch the floors just a bit, unless you go with something smaller han 2" square. About an inch up the rocker and 3" in the floor.

Hmmmm...would some 1-1/2 x 2 or 3 laid flat have saved any room from having to notch the floor you think?

no, you will still have to notch. Oh, I have about an inch bodylift too.......

I had thought about putting some 2" tube "outriggers" that stuck out from the frame about 2", but wanted to save the clearance instead of the floor.


__/ /
____/

few new things.

had S/K bend up some more metal for me.
new rear deck lid made of 12g. Has some cross pieces underneath it will bolt to. Should make a weather 'proof' trunk when the tailgate goes back on.

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/901429/fullsize/decklid0.jpg

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/901428/fullsize/decklid.jpg

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/901430/fullsize/decklid2.jpg

New rear bulkhead made of 16g. This will sit right behind the back seat.

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/901431/fullsize/firewall2.jpg

I just stole your boat/rocker sides...Thanks!!!

Hmmmm...would some 1-1/2 x 2 or 3 laid flat have saved any room from having to notch the floor you think?

no, you will still have to notch. Oh, I have about an inch bodylift too.......

I had thought about putting some 2" tube "outriggers" that stuck out from the frame about 2", but wanted to save the clearance instead of the floor.


__/ /
____/

[Slight hijack]

HoS, how bad are your rockers now? Did you see how I did my mini-boatsides? I cut just below the door, and bolt on (through rocker and through floor). They don't tie into the frame, but they are plenty strong, similar to the bolt on sliders for jeeps.
642612

642613

What if you run the support bars parallel to the floor like Mocha Mike's?
642614

started on the drivers floor. Its a little bigger over all, but should add needed foot room for me.
http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/901523/fullsize/floor4.jpg

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/901522/fullsize/floor3.jpg

I actually really like doing the floor. kinda geometry, math, and fab with some new techniques I read about to put the bends in this 12 gauge

Make sure you drill plenty of holes for water to drain out of. (It will fill up on Fordyce).

I have never had water issues on Fordyce. We will see with this thing, maybe a lower stance, but with 42's, Its pretty tall no matter how little lift.

few new things.

had S/K bend up some more metal for me.
new rear deck lid made of 12g. Has some cross pieces underneath it will bolt to. Should make a weather 'proof' trunk when the tailgate goes back on.



I am going to be doing something very, very similar to my rig when it comes time to work on that area. I really want something over the fuel cell to act as a shelf. I don't have a tail gate....so I am thinking of incorporating a *box* and shelf into one hinged thing-a-ma-jig to replace the tailgate. Keep spares etc. in it.

Yours should look pretty pimp when finished.

Why a bulkhead?

12 ga is not to bad to bend. I've used the cutoff wheel to make some slits in the past to make bending easier.
You have a shop press? They work great at bending stuff.

Where did you get those tall jack stands with the screw tops? I could sure use something like that.

harbor freight ones cut down to this size.

The bulkhead was to seal it off to weather.

The floor is looking good . You gona bend the edge for the tunnel?

I dont think so. The plan is to do a 2 piece tunnel, a front raised half and a rear half at this 7" height for seat cage clearance. I have a clear picture in my head, just not sure what is going to fit and what isnt. The plan is for the tunnel itself to have a break that would come down the edge of the vertical sides of the floor.

Love the 800's, your build is great. I always made mudders from them here in Florida. What do you do for a living, your metal work is great? Now I am Jonesing to go get my Scout out of the woods and mess with it. I haven't seen it since about 1989. I know its still there just hate to see how bad it looks after sitting out that long with no roof. Keep it up and post more picks!

Figured I'd reply here, as not to hijack that other dude's thread completely.
I need to look to see where your shifter is on the tranny Guido. mines right at the front lip of the stock tunnel cover, and I think a klune/205 combo is like an inch shorter than the 203/205 isnt it?

It came out pretty close to the stock location, I had to trim some for the shifter and for triple shifters anyway, so I made a trim panel. My Jed's 203/205 is ~19.5" from face to yoke, not sure what a Klune/205 is I'd guess it is few inches shorter.

647164

647165

647166

thanks. I went through your build last night, just didnt make any mention of it. How long is your rear shaft? I think my tranny is forward of yours by an inch or so (hard to tell exactly from pics). And I think Otherwise we should either be dead on (tranny's are the same AFAIK) or I might be an inch shorter. My shaft is short enough that I am limited in my pinion droop to 5" before the H in the cardan botoms out. Now, running gear height plays a factor as well, so I guess we could measure there also????????????? If we care enough I guess.

Anyway, thanks for following up.

Here is an old pic of my doubler set up. I have since removed the front 3/4" spacer with the ZF so its about 18.5 now

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/182872/fullsize/doublerlength.jpg

thanks. I went through your build last night, just didnt make any mention of it. How long is your rear shaft? I think my tranny is forward of yours by an inch or so (hard to tell exactly from pics). And I think Otherwise we should either be dead on (tranny's are the same AFAIK) or I might be an inch shorter. My shaft is short enough that I am limited in my pinion droop to 5" before the H in the cardan botoms out. Now, running gear height plays a factor as well, so I guess we could measure there also????????????? If we care enough I guess.

Anyway, thanks for following up.

I might have more details in my build over on JustIH, I have more pics there of the build than I do here.

My rear 'shaft is ~20" at ride height, not sure what the angle is but it's not severe, BUT your drivetrain is mounted a bit higher than mine. My 205 hangs down about 3" below the frame rail and the rear output is tilted down a bit to help with rear driveshaft angle.

647373

It looks like it hangs down a lot, but it's less than 3" (still need to finish my skid)

647376

Sorry, I don't have a great pic of my rear driveshaft angle handy.

647375

Yeah, thats a big difference. You seem to have a lot less lift than I do also. The bottom of my frame rails is 24.5"

Got a little time in the garage. here are some in progress pics

Got the new bulkhead mocked in. Still need to finish welding
http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/904202/fullsize/bulkheadfront.jpg

Weld flange is on the back side
http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/904205/fullsize/rearbulkhead.jpg

the rear deck lid fits over the new bulkhead
http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/904203/fullsize/bulkheadoverlap.jpg

Cut 22" out of the rear inner fenders. Gives a lot more foot room for my kids and should make for a better B pillar cage mount
http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/904204/fullsize/newspace.jpg

Also gives a lot room for the front eat to move back some
http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/904206/fullsize/seatspace.jpg